Should Adult land be separated from SL altogether

[Yohan Roux]

nice video, sorry i am late replying, but the "badge" is working and i just gained another sim to create a system for, swords not guns, but i would like at some time to create an alt to play gun games, problem is, with each alt you have to fit out and it can cost a lot.

[GothGirl Demonia]

No but Linden Lab should seperate Adult Simulators/ Mature Simulators/ PG simulators on the Map/Grid.

Also they should remove everyones Age Verification who has not shown ID, and make them Age Verify to prevent teens from getting access to 18+ Content, and help prevent griefers.

I have asked Linden Lab many times to do this they refuse to do such, and the only time I feel they are going to listen is when some parents mom comes in and sues Linden Lab, given the fact that SL is a MMORPG, SandBox, or Multiverse there should be an age verification when Minors can be exposed to any content that is 18+.

And don't even talk to me about Pornography on the internet while that is true that minors can click an I Agree button it does not expose them to a child molestor in chat pretending to be a 15 year old talking to a 14 year old and things like this.

I supported the Grid Mege only for the reason of things like.

1. Giving Teens Education, and the chance to learn.

2. Give Teens more places to explore and visit.

3. Give Teens a chance not to get seperated from their friends.

4. Give a chance to express & sell intellectual property/creativity.

I did not support the merge for Teens getting access to 18+ content without ID, and making people feel like child molestors at times because for example this person who was lets say over 18 almost got married to someone in SL under the age of 18 but had no idea.

[Yohan Roux]

Since they did all that I have not had much contact with people in sl in a casual way, I have only business contacts now, that is safe, once I did respond to someone asking who didn't have any land or a sim, meeting in a sand box, didn't ask just said to busy, don't know if he was a teen, just the whole sandbox thing put me off, where would the vendors go, lol.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

---

Deltango Vale wrote:

"Face books turnover for simple games is huge, all games people just look at it with envy, they never predicted it."

-----------------------------------------------------

@ Linden Lab

I will give you the key to life, the universe and everything:

Second Life is NOT a game. It

never was

a a game, it

will never be

a game, it has nothing to do with games. Is the United States a game? Hey, it has the Superbowl, so the US must be a game, right? The Olympics will be held in the UK this year. Does that mean the UK has become a game? Canada loves hockey and India loves cricket. Are Canada and India games? Of course not. One can play games in India or Canada or Australia, but India, Canada and Australia are not games. The day Linden Lab understands this basic, simple, obvious concept is the day Linden Lab begins to save Second Life from its death spiral.

So, what is Second Life? It is a virtual world, a virtual country, a parallel reality separate from ordinary reality, an alternative reality, a new social and economic geography, a 'New World' that floats above the 'Old World'.

In order to succeed as an alternative reality, Second Life must become graphically superb (more real than real) and culturally neutral (international).

Linden Lab understood this in 2006

before the great managerial shakeup that led to Second Life's five-year decline.

---

 

I agree with Deltango 100%

I believe it is the responsibility of  parents to monitor their minor children's access to the internet and any site that they visit, not anyone else's.  If they are unable to do that, then their internet access should be locked to prevent their minors from accessing it when the parents aren't there to supervise.  Unfortunately, many parents today want to pass the buck on this. like they do for everything else concerning raising children, and make everyone else their kids babysitters then want to blame them when something happens.

I believe LL made a HUGE mistake merging the Teen and Adult grids.  If the teen grid was no longer supporting itself financially with premium memberships, tiers, etc.  it should have just been closed, because it obviously was not attractive to teens.  Teens are more into video games and as Deltango stated, this is not a game. In iodination it put all the adults in a dicey situation with minors who lie about their age to be able to go to areas that are not "G" rated.

If people wished to continue using a SL environment for education, there is a version of SL that can be run behind a firewall on a private server and the owner can decide the content and who is allowed entrance.  This is a much safer environment for minors since there is no possibility of them being exposed to inappropriate content.

I do not agree that adult content should be separated from the main grid.  Adult content is not only sex but violence too, including a lot of roleplay and combat sims.  If the adults here don't want to be exposed to this content, they should learn how to use the rating system and controls to avoid it all together just as they are able to avoid it in RL.

[Lear Cale]

Adding a PG continent is an excellent idea.

Separating PG and Adjult into different grids would be a case of "divide and conquer" -- both populations would lose out significantly.

The teen grid was never open to adults, so it's not a fair argument to say LL had a PG grid and it failed.  But it is an example of a separate grid that failed due to the wall between the grids.

While the shift from Mature/PG to Adult/Mature/PG was a hassle, I think it was a step in the right direction.  It would be interesting to see what percentage of avatars want to be Adult-capable.  Unfortunately, since all PIOF and PIU members are Adult capable, we don't have any good stats.  The percentage of Adult verified among currently active NPIOF members might be interesting, but would be a bit skewed.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Yohan Roux wrote:

 

Does having the extremes of the adult world here reduce SL appeal world wide?

Some countries target sl just because of the adult world here.

---

The extremes maybe. The violent content. The 'slave' stuff.

But in general adult content is what holds up the SL world and userbase. A large portion of the users spend some amount of time on mains or alts bumping pixels or gawking at othera bumping pixels.

 

ps: Was there some piece of news that I missed just recently? Or is this just a relook at a very old question?

[Deltango Vale]

"While the shift from Mature/PG to Adult/Mature/PG was a hassle..."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ever since Second Life was created in 2002, access to the Main Grid was restricted to 18+ (adult). The 'Mature' (adult) rating was the default. Yet within SL, some older sims were designated PG. (The new continents of Bay City and Nautilus were designated Mature.)

Mature equaled adult equaled MPAA NC-17 or BBFC 18R/18

Mature also equaled legal adult

What changed is this: Linden Lab tried to divide Mature (adult) into two types: 'Adult' (XXX) and 'Moderate' (sub-adult, MPAA R). Then Linden Lab forced anyone it deemed to be XXX to a new continent called Zindra. Then Linden Lab lowered the access age of SL from 18+ (adult) to 16+ (underage MPAA PG-13/R).

As predicted, there was and still is much confusion because of the vague and arbitrary distinction between 'Adult' (XXX) and Moderate (MPAA R, formerly Mature MPAA NC-17). Notice that almost no international rating agency attempts to make a distinction between 18+ and XXX. Notice also that Moderate (MPAA R) applies to 17 only, a very thin distinction indeed from NC-17. Let's not even talk about trying to apply these distinctions to search criteria. And then there is the huge issue of international religious and sexual diversity for which 18+ is about the only common denominator.

Messy? It was a disaster. If the goal was to increase the resident population, it failed. If the goal was to eliminate confusion, it failed. If the goal was to generate social integration, it failed. If the goal was to improve SL's reputation, it failed. If the goal was to remove land zoning conflicts, it failed. If the goal was to seamlessly integrate kids into SL, it failed. In plain language, the 'Adult' zoning and content policy was an 'Epic Fail'.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Deltango Vale wrote:

 

Messy? It was a disaster. If the goal was to increase the resident population, it failed. If the goal was to eliminate confusion, it failed. If the goal was to generate social integration, it failed. If the goal was to 'improve SL's reputation, it failed. If the goal was to remove land zoning conflicts, it failed. If the goal was to seamlessly integrate kids into SL, it failed. In plain language, the 'Adult' zoning and content policy was an 'Epic Fail'.

---

^^^^^^^^^^^ this !

[161488303349]

there is already a G only continent. the old TG is on the main grid and accessible to everyone

its in a bit of a mess tho parcel-wise in some areas. the place could do with a tidyup and given a name other than "the old TG". it could do with a few more sims on some of the edges just to shape it up a bit better, by the snow lands mostly

like others mention the harder problem is what to do with the mixed-up G and M sims on the other continents. i would like to see most of them rerated to M. except for maybe some of the linden specific areas, like by linden village, oip, hip

maybe would be some ppl on G sims on the other continents not want this but if they got an offer of a nice place on the G then i think many of them would move. linden could sweetheart them with land deals like what happened with the move to A

+

would also like to see more off the mainland sims themed and covenanted. maybe upto 50% even eventually. not all of them of course. still need large areas of unrestricted creativity and we not ever want to lose that. but we could do with some more covenanted areas. as most ppl who do stuff with the mainland know, is the covenanted areas that fetch higher prices and attract the most number of ppl looking to settle

will take time to do all this, but as and when whole sims become available, or even with the cooperation of existing parcel owners in some areas, the LDPW team could progress this. same way they went about building the roads and byways. a bit at a time, as time and resources allow

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

Yeah. "The old TG". I like that.

It was 'added' (lets be nice) to the grid last year in a sudden move, and we all got to discover that the real reason for the merger was that TG was already dead - and they couldn't sell the server hardware even to one of the many startups around here in SF, so they shrug and slapped it in there.

To 'clean' up the parcels will take a large scale land baron caring enough to start buying out sims and doing recuts. A few have been doing that in Zindra - but that's about the only place land barons 'play serious' anymore. Yes there are land flippers on maingrid too, but they just floor sell the stuff they have there. Was even looking at a protected water lot a few hours ago for only 1.5L/m...

To get one to care about 'the old TG' - it has to have value.

But no one really cares for G rated land. People give long speeches about the value of a 'general audience SL' and a 'clean family values place for the folks who vote evengelical and all' ( ), but then those folks never really show up to use the land when its handed out.

So 'the old TG' is going to have to straighten out the slow way - one lot at a time. As folks there on a 512 want to go up to a 1024, the few who are willing to spend 1 month at 2048 so they can buy up assorted lots, cut the part they want, and sell off (ie abandon) the rest... you get maybe one of those kinds of people per sim per year at best...

 

The land is there - an A continent, a G continent, and a hodge-podge of random M and G continents... The only real problem is the lack of an M continent...

(whatever M is).

As for pure separate grids... Open Sim is that way -------> and you can set up a G grid there and see how many people show up.

(there's a place for Open sims, but I suspect this isn't it.)

 

[Irene Muni]

---

Deltango Vale wrote:

......................................

The solution is, was and will always be the creation of a PG continent and the return of the existing mainland to an adult (18+) rating.

---

 Deltango Vale wrote:

"Face books turnover for simple games is huge, all games people just look at it with envy, they never predicted it."

-----------------------------------------------------

@ Linden Lab

I will give you the key to life, the universe and everything:

Second Life is NOT a game. It

never was

a a game, it

will never be

a game, it has nothing to do with games. Is the United States a game? Hey, it has the Superbowl, so the US must be a game, right? The Olympics will be held in the UK this year. Does that mean the UK has become a game? Canada loves hockey and India loves cricket. Are Canada and India games? Of course not. One can play games in India or Canada or Australia, but India, Canada and Australia are not games. The day Linden Lab understands this basic, simple, obvious concept is the day Linden Lab begins to save Second Life from its death spiral.

So, what is Second Life? It is a virtual world, a virtual country, a parallel reality separate from ordinary reality, an alternative reality, a new social and economic geography, a 'New World' that floats above the 'Old World'.

In order to succeed as an alternative reality, Second Life must become graphically superb (more real than real) and culturally neutral (international).

Linden Lab understood this in 2006

before the great managerial shakeup that led to Second Life's five-year decline.

---

 

[161488303349]

much of the parcel mess on the old TG is bits and pieces of land owned by various linden accounts. there was probly a reason for it when it was TG, not sure why that would be the case now tho. probly would take a linden a few days to go thru them. work out what they should give to LDPW, which to keep, like sandboxes and WA. maybe some builds for historical purposes then parcel up whats left and make for sale

linden could even run a contest for a name for it. my entry would be the Gee (:

is not a huge demand for G land, but is some ppl who want. rl familes sometimes. so if there is already a G continent then tidy it up and pretty much let it look after itself from then on, same as all the other continents

+

i think that the point of mainland G rating is that when u on a G sim then can reasonable expect that someone u meet will be under 18 and u should act appropriately with tha in mind

on mainland M sim then u should not have to expect that at all. is 18+. sure is maybe some kid faking it sometimes but thats not a reasonable expectation and no one should have to watch out for that and adjust their behaviour on M, just in case there is some random kid faking it

is general accepted that mainland A is XXX, even if ppl dont always do that on A. if we not like XXX then dont go there

[Yohan Roux]

I hope Linden Labs read this tread, there are some very good comments, and shows the chaos created by the grid joining, I feel all knew where they stood before but a lot are not sure and it is a major part of SL, so I would think that to have a major part not know what day Sunday is can only do damage in the long run.

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

16 wrote:

much of the parcel mess on the old TG is bits and pieces of land owned by various linden accounts. there was probly a reason for it when it was TG, not sure why that would be the case now tho. probly would take a linden a few days to go thru them. work out what they should give to LDPW, which to keep, like sandboxes and WA. maybe some builds for historical purposes then parcel up whats left and make for sale

---

Oh that makes sense. I've seen on mainland too in sims that had a heavy griefing history in years past back when individual lindens had inworld accounts.

What you might and most likely are looking at is individualized responses to griefing by siezing land and changing perms on it.

A read of old TG posts and blogs suggests it was filled with 'armies' - self styled griefer gangs that would take turf and hassle others in there as well as 'keep it safe' from rivals... ( /facepalm ).

The mainland example I know of for this is Isabel. Look at land ownership of a lot of tiny parcels here and there that are empty. And then look at the funky perms of the infohub, and even a poorly patched road that is phantom in one prim.

 

Lindens likely had to spend a lot of energy dealing with them.

 

[161488303349]

most the problem was actual caused by linden. the way the mainland got fragmented

on TG there was armies and clans, like u say. is still some remnants of that there. little outposts, forts and stuff. that to be expected from teens. that way of playing. and cutting up the land into smaller parcels so they could afford to build and maintain their forts and defensive lines

on mainland was diff. was some armies and clans in early early days. but most the fragmentation was done by adfarmers and landcutter flippers.  mainlanders were harrassed by adfarmers with all kinds of things. spinners and shriekers on  fullbright. full on XXX rated objects spewing particles, all kinds of rubbish. was guerilla warfare against them in retaliation. others, like deltango, tried to buy back the view, cost them fortunes to do. linden did nothing for years. laissez faire and all that

by the time linden decide to finally do something about it, was all kinda to late. lots of ppl was burned out. most of the conventional settler type of ppl had already either gone to the estates or quit sl altogether. the only ppl left on mainland were the stubborn hardy souls with shotguns and get off my lawn signs (: and a whole bunch of ppl playing the cut and flip parcel game basically trading with each other and drawing new blood into that game. is popular now to rewrite history and blame it all on a few unscrupulous ppl, but heaps of ppl were into it, more than a few upstanding citizens as well

when linden eventually stopped that game then wasnt enough ppl left to sustain the mainland. prices start to fall. then linden made linden homes, as the easy way out, which depress regular prices even further. slow downward spiral after that. now in many mainland areas cant even give it away hardly

mainland way more pleasant to live on now compared to then. but yeah really. will take something major major to turn prices round. more covenanted areas or something drastic like that. would have to be a gradual programme this tho, so could be absorbed carefully. if was done to fast then could impact quite badly on estates

estates having a tough time now with rl economy and linden homes impacting on residential demands. marketplace and now direct delivery on commercial tenants, so while is good idea over the longterm for more covenanted mainland, if was me then i would take my time about doing it. 5 year plan or something as far out as that

most the land by places like isabel end up cut that way bc of legit adboards. they used to worth a mint. 10,000L and more for a 16m. ppl accept that bc of the proximity to the traffic that the infohubs generated. same way they accept advertising in rl towns

was the giant fake adboards slapped in the middle of upto then residential and countryside style areas that started the mainland wars. was a shame really that linden not get onto it when it first started in earnest. but they didnt. is done now and cant be undone. so just have to find another solution if is to go forward again. win back trust somehow is whats needed to start with i think. will take some effort to do that tho. is still possible i think but then i am mostly an optimist about things

[Ann Otoole]

Adult rated land is supposed to be seperate and away from M or G mainland. That is why LL made people go through the lottery thing to get replacement land. If LL is now allowing Adult regions to comingle with M and G regions then LL is liable for legal action.