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Syle Devin

Whole mesh building

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So I am trying to find out if it is worth it to make a whole building is mesh or just use the textures on prims. to give the look of a mesh. I really want to make the whole building in blender and then upload it but do enough people see meshes, and are meshses stable enough to make it worth it? It is also a lot less prims which I love but if people won't see it then it's pointless.

Any advice?

 

Edit: I am no where near new to the 3d world so I know what I am doing but I am newer to second life mesh. I have no real idea if meshes work well enough in world for buildings and such. I know they work well with clothing but not sure about naything else.

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They work well, but depending on where you want the building to be it might not yet be worth it. More and more people can see mesh, but nowhere near enough to make it feasible for a public place. There's a few mesh buildings on the MP already. The last "official" number given by LL was 16% adoption rate around christmas, which seemed about the same as my in-world experience. These days it "feels" like more people can see me in my mesh avis.

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I build because I enjoy building. If SL only had cubes, I would build with cubes.

If you can make an entire house in mesh, you should do that. I would be interested in that.

I have hundreds of pointless builds; what's your point?

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Jenni Darkwatch wrote:

They work well, but depending on where you want the building to be it might not yet be worth it. More and more people can see mesh, but nowhere near enough to make it feasible for a public place. There's a few mesh buildings on the MP already. The last "official" number given by LL was 16% adoption rate around christmas, which seemed about the same as my in-world experience. These days it "feels" like more people can see me in my mesh avis.

That was 16% of sims that had mesh items rezzed, that number is now up to 29%. The number of daily sessions with a mesh viewer is 64%, in other words the majority of the grid can see mesh.

LL publishes these number every week at the mesh usergroup, the transcripts are posted

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Well thanks for that info. Seems it is ok enough to keep buildign with mesh. I am working with someone on making a working bowling alley. Right now mesh can make it look the best but if no one could see it than there would be no point fo rit to be mesh. So thank you for the info, gonna keep going ahead with making it in mesh. Seems enough will be able to see it at this point.

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Mesh adoption is slow. People are suspicious of it, have heard various rumors and myths about it.  LL has done nothing to educate or promote.  I am doing everything I can, but my reach is limited.  It is slow going.

 

Which is to day I will not be making any all mesh buildings until adoption is much more widespread.

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Which is to day I will not be making any all mesh buildings until adoption is much more widespread.

Isn't it so that if there aren't lots of mesh objects to see, then those who still are using non mesh enabled viewers may not be very interested to upgrade their viewers?

If everybody would hold back releasing mesh items, then the adoption surely would take forever.

Anyway, the latest info (6th February 2012) from the Lab tells that 71 % of unique residents have used mesh viewers. So the majority can already see mesh.

Is there any point still waiting for the remaining 29 % of residents to upgrade their viewers before releasing mesh buildings? I see it this way: the more mesh items there are in the grid, the more eager the remaining old viewer users will be to upgrade their viewers.

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I agree. If you force it upon them by turning something they may want into mesh than of course they may be more interested for mesh. If you cater to them and build non mesh items than I do not think there is much room to complain that people aren't adapting mesh as much as we would like.

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I say go for it! - Residents capable of seeing mesh now are in the majority, according to Charlar Linden's statistics (roughly 70% currently). Sooner or later, it will only be a tiny minority who cannot see mesh at all - it's just a matter of time.

Keep in mind that there is a little bit of skill involved in keeping your mesh Land Impacts down to a reasonable level. It's definitely possible with a bit of experimentation, but be prepared for a lot to testing to get an instinct for it (make use of the Aditi test grid to save on upload/test costs). Whatever you do, don't let it frustrate you, just be aware that it may take a while for you to get your head around the technicalities of mesh optimisation. Once you achieve it, the savings of mesh over prim builds can be quite surprising!

So yah, go ahead with your mesh builds for sure... if nothing else, you will have a headstart in mesh for when everyone can eventually see it.

:matte-motes-smile:

 

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Ah yes, I understand the capabilities of saving prims with mesh. It is basically the same as trying to keep poly count low on a 3d model. If my understanding of the system is correct it seems the lower the poly the count the less $L the mesh needs to be uploaded and less land weight. So I havea basic understanding of that I just haven't messed around much with the upload quality and that. The balance between size, amount of polys, and having a far view distance. Thank you again for mentioning that test grid for mesh. I didn't know there was one, it will really help with making this building turn out.

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I'd go for it.... The only way to drag the remaining 30% over the line is by building more mesh...

One tip for your LoD behaviour... build the exterior of your mesh out of one big piece so it's nice and big. That way you can scrap all lower LoD models on that without it deforming or disappearing from a distance. The interior can be made out of smaller sections, it won't show from long distances afterall... You'll need a trick or two for the windows then ofcourse...

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I've heard you, and we're working on something. We (LindenLab) want to offer the support creators and merchants need to be successful in adopting the features we think will make SL more and more compelling, engaging, and just freakin cool.

Btw, nearly 30% of all regions on the grid have mesh objects rezzed on them, and about 70% all users log in with a mesh enabled viewer on a given day. All the metrics are trending up and we hope folks who frequent this forum will continue to make the great content that is driving that usage.

 

 

 

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Yes, I realize it is a chicken or egg type deal.  I personally have not had a non-mesh release since Phoenix was mesh enabled. I support my family with my SL store sales, however, so I must pay careful attention to how my marketing decisions affect sales. I can not afford to get too far ahead of the curve. I think people are going to be much less likely to buy a house that looks like a big donut to many than they are a furniture set; I could be wrong but that is my impression.

 

OTOH I am glad so many are still willing to buy all the non-mesh stuff I have filling 4 sims!

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Charlar Linden wrote:

I've heard you, and we're working on something. We (LindenLab) want to offer the support creators and merchants need to be successful in adopting the features we think will make SL more and more compelling, engaging, and just freakin cool.

Btw, nearly 30% of all regions on the grid have mesh objects rezzed on them, and about 70% all users log in with a mesh enabled viewer on a given day. All the metrics are trending up and we hope folks who frequent this forum will continue to make the great content that is driving that usage.

 

 

 

That's good to hear.  (I just hope it is not the typical LL approach to singling out a few merchants and showcasing their mesh builds.)  What I would like to see is INFORMATIONAL promotion, simply because I must spend so much time on this.

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You know what?

I'll give you an amen to that.

We want everyone to be on a modern (read: mesh enabled) viewer, building and buying things that are more efficient and better looking, therefore continuing to make the grid an interesting place. 

Charlar

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I've done a couple mesh buildings so far and there are some really nice benefits to building it 100% in blender both technically and artistically.  I'll go ahead ang give some tips even if you don't want em or have already heard this stuff a million times:

1.Use a seperate ultra low poly proxy object for the physics

2.Use multiple materials for inside and outside for example

3.Unwrap it well so the textures look great in SL, an AO bake can do alot for the process

4.Keep it modular, think of parts that could be reused and instanced (copied) in SL ie window frames, upload as seperate objects to reduce the overhead.

 

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Mesh has been out for a bit over 5 months. Viewer adoption is moving quickly. With between 2/3's and 3/4's of all users now using mesh capable viewers. 2.3's of all logged in hours are logged by those with mesh capable viewers.

With the removal of the SL Viewer 1.23 download all new users are coming in with mesh capable viewers.

There is a problem with mesh clothes. Getting things to fit right without the Mesh Deformer Project being complete has some people resisting wearing mesh clothes.

However, buildings and other static objects can take advantage of mesh. The only problem there is those creating with mesh are having a challenge learning to build efficiently with mesh. We lack advanced tutorials and good explanations of how to build mesh objects for SL. There are loads of tutorials for general 3D modeling that teach all the tricks of Blender and how to build complex and bake to simple. I would say the use of mesh is being delayed by a learning curve.

We are starting to see more and more basic tutorials for SL. 

Unless one already knows 3D modeling and can figure out how to make efficient mesh for SL, one should probably be building mesh and learning. Waiting until everyone else has learned and all the wrinkles are out, would allow the competition a good head start.

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Nalates Urriah wrote:

Mesh has been out for a bit over 5 months. Viewer adoption is moving quickly. With between 2/3's and 3/4's of all users now using mesh capable viewers. 2.3's of all logged in hours are logged by those with mesh capable viewers.

With the removal of the SL Viewer 1.23 download all new users are coming in with mesh capable viewers.

There is a problem with mesh clothes. Getting things to fit right without the Mesh Deformer Project being complete has some people resisting wearing mesh clothes.

However, buildings and other static objects can take advantage of mesh. The only problem there is those creating with mesh are having a challenge learning to build efficiently with mesh. We lack advanced tutorials and good explanations of how to build mesh objects for SL. There are loads of tutorials for general 3D modeling that teach all the tricks of Blender and how to build complex and bake to simple. I would say the use of mesh is being delayed by a learning curve.

We are starting to see more and more basic tutorials for SL. 

Unless one already knows 3D modeling and can figure out how to make efficient mesh for SL, one should probably be building mesh and learning. Waiting until everyone else has learned and all the wrinkles are out, would allow the competition a good head start.

Yes, I more or less agree with the above; as  I mentioned, I was speaking from a business viewpoint. I know my market, and when my market is ready to start buying mesh houses, I will have them for sale. 

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Syle Devin wrote:

So I am trying to find out if it is worth it to make a whole building is mesh or just use the textures on prims. to give the look of a mesh. I really want to make the whole building in blender and then upload it but do enough people see meshes, and are meshses stable enough to make it worth it? It is also a lot less prims which I love but if people won't see it then it's pointless.

Any advice?

 

Edit: I am no where near new to the 3d world so I know what I am doing but I am newer to second life mesh. I have no real idea if meshes work well enough in world for buildings and such. I know they work well with clothing but not sure about naything else.

Go for it, just don't try and upload a whole building as one mesh as you'll run itno issues with textures, they're limited on how many faces you can have per mesh upload.

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Ciaran Laval wrote:

Go for it, just don't try and upload a whole building as one mesh as you'll run itno issues with textures, they're limited on how many faces you can have per mesh upload.

I would agree to not build a house out of a single mesh, simply because you'd probably be overusing landimpact and rendercost for the interior (depending on size, I can see situations where you can scrap the interior in a lower LoD model and keep the build as a single mesh without any waste). 8 x 1024 x 1024 will go a long long way for most builds. I think if you use more than that you are not building very well. I can see issues when you want the house to be modifyable in texture and such. In that case 8 textures might be (too) little, still with clever UV mapping I think it's very possible for most builds.

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Charlar Linden wrote:

You know what?

I'll
give you an amen to that.

We want everyone to be on a modern (read: mesh enabled) viewer, building and buying things that are more efficient and better looking, therefore continuing to make the grid an interesting place. 

Charlar

If you have significant input into this effort, Charlar, I am confident it will serve a wide range of customers and merchants. :-)

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thanks for vote of confidence. As it happens, I do have significant input into this. So, yes, you can blame me if we you get isnot what I'm saying I want to deliver. 

 

Charlar

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Charlar Linden wrote:

thanks for vote of confidence. As it happens, I do have significant input into this. So, yes, you can blame me if we you get isnot what I'm saying I want to deliver. 

 

Charlar

Yippee! 

I released my first mesh kitchen today -- vastly better in every way than my other kitchens, at about the same prim count or lower, and priced the same as my other kitchens. And I sold a lot of kitchens today. But mostly the non-mesh ones.  And I am not sure why.  I have had customers express their distrust of mesh -- it can't be modified, it has too many prims, etc -- and some may not have mesh viewers.  I just don't know how anyone can look at my mesh kitchen and then buy one of the non mesh ones. (I suppose I should be glad they do, though, because I have 4 sims filled with non-mesh stuff.)

 

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What there is a limit to faces per mesh? What is that limit? Not that it bothers me to much since I already build as low vertice as possible with removing to many. I just worry it will be lower than my needs.

Also thanks for the tip anyway. I have been trying to think of ways to not upload as one mesh since I am making it as one scene in blender. It just deends on how I go about exporting it when its done. Is it possible to export a single object in blender? Would I have to do it as I plan? My plan right now, unless an easier/better one comes up, is to save a back up and delete all other objects except for the ones I want to export.

 

 

Also I am glad to see there is support for mesh from you char. Since I haven't been on sl this much in a couple of years I am used to not much linden feedback but I am glad to see that there feedback now.

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