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Lets discuss - SL last names post from Rodvik Linden in the feeds.


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Qwalyphi Korpov wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Just got a message that he backpeddled his candy butt out of the whole thing.

There will be no last names:

/epic fail.

 

Last names cause massive bail-out rate during sign-up!  I think the 'pick a last name later' option is going to be a winner.

That's basically a line of BS when compared to the problem of names like Billy123...

 But I'm more annoyed with the failure to live up to a promise here on Rod's part...

 

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Wow. Really? That's it? Just "We don't seem to have a consensus so, like, never mind."? Don't get me wrong, I was never all het up over last names one way or the other although I really liked the way it was when I joined. But it's a bit worrying to see so much apparent intent to change things from LL followed by such a stunningly meek retraction.

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

Wow. Really? That's it? Just "We don't seem to have a consensus so, like, never mind."? Don't get me wrong, I was never all het up over last names one way or the other although I really liked the way it was when I joined. But it's a bit worrying to see so much apparent intent to change things from LL followed by such a stunningly meek retraction.

Basically it was, hey, we are listening to what everyone is saying so we are going to bring back last names... and titles!

Then, we were like, oh hell no, no titles!

So they were like, well, if we can't come to an agreement, we will just scrap the whole idea.

We were like, aw, come on, that's an obvious copout.

And today they were like, yep.

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He notes an hour long presentation telling him 'no can't do it'.

I call BS. Not against him per se, but his IT folks.

I've sat through meetings like that too before - over topics I knew enough about on to know the real answer was: "this takes too much work and will drop my Angry Birds score by having to log overtime."

 

Where I work now, those kinds of meetings stopped when the other managers started hiring outside IT consultants to do a job anytime the internal IT folks fed this line... people starting realizing they could get replaced... and suddenly things became possible again. The budgets might have had some sticker shock in terms of time, and requests for more staff - but the 'no' just didn't happen anymore...

That's the thing about eLance. Your tech geeks say no - get new ones.

 

Integrating systems won't be easy - i get that. But impossible - I don't get that.

 

 

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We were promised candies and now they've been snapped away. Uff.. :smileymad:

Of course a win/win solution is impossible as people always have different likes and dislikes. It is totally impossible to please all. But it should not mean that no solution (or a bad new solution) should be given.

How about just giving back the original First Name/Last Name thing? It wasn't bad, my feeling is that the majority actually liked it. And it was a lot better system than this present silly single name system.

Sad.gifRodvik, many of us feel super sad now.

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Please, Rodvik! Don't shut the discussion like this! This isn't a fail yet. It isn't over! Please don't give up! I have been thinking about this all night, and I think there is a "win-win" solution! I know it must be hard, but please don't stop listening to us!

I'm sure most SL users don't care too much about last names, but this isn't just about last names. This is about LL listening to residents. You have made a great effort in this, and I fear you must feel that the only reward has been a lot of bitter attacks against you. But this is how human beings are. Please don't give up! We can solve this problem yet.

My idea for a win-win is this: don't change anything in the registration page, but add a link at the bottom of it, something like "if you want to have a SL LAST NAME, click here". This link would open into an old style last name list registration page. So everybody would be happy! The class issue would be solved. There would be new users with and without a last name. Having no last name (being a Resident) would not have anything to do with your SL age, it would just be a personal choice.

We know this would be technically possible, since those third party registration sites were still active for a while.

Please, Rodvik! Don't let us down. 

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Qwalyphi Korpov wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:


Qwalyphi Korpov wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Just got a message that he backpeddled his candy butt out of the whole thing.

There will be no last names:

/epic fail.

 

Last names cause massive bail-out rate during sign-up!  I think the 'pick a last name later' option is going to be a winner.

That's basically a line of BS when compared to the problem of names like Billy123...

 But I'm more annoyed with the failure to live up to a promise here on Rod's part...

 

Okay.  I do think LL has studied where they lose people in the signup process.  And they've made lots of changes to increase the #s that get in-world.  The idea that you could pick a bad name and replace it with a display name hasn't worked out so well.  Though I suppose it's still viewed inside the lab as the eventual solution. 

 

 

 

I still wonder how many that backed out of creating an account when it was time to choose a last name were just current residents name shopping for an alt.  How would LL know the difference between alt makers and new visitors?

SL is the biggest barrier to user retention.  Not names.

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:


Charolotte Caxton wrote:


Still epic fail.
:D

And this is not in any sense of things a good way to fail either - making a big 'we'll fix it', getting everyone hyped up for the fix, and then saying...

 

Ha Ha, losers! You lose! Sux to be you!

simpsons-haha.jpg



Indeed I did get that feeling reading the final verdict. I'm amazed how it's possible to be so fickle. I don't like fickle :catsad:

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i can't wait for my new av name instead of Gemmett57Resident(dispite my display name that hasn't changed since i joined everyone still calls me gem if thet even consider talking to a lowly Resident) I will make my next name G3MM3TT-,,-".5653"6733F74377 Resident, oh and good luck trying to get that correct in a sscript so I can unlock a door. Unless you want to use the UUID of my av which reads like a nintendo password 85eacc3a-5fed-483b-ac09-c5fc0c13fcfd. Hech maybe I should use that as my username. Rodvik invented a new level of fail yesterday, I mean Epic Fail doesn't come close to discribbing it.

I can understan not letting people write in last names for certain purposes (I.E. people making names like Al Gore, or Willhelm Shatn3r) to protect rights, but seriously I would raher have a first and last name (even if chosen off a list) without having to bastardize it with random nubers, special characters, rocks from the moon. not to mention if somone has a name I want like "Bob" and there 10 last names theres a decent chance I can make a combination which will reflect my desires for my chosen first name. as it is i couldn't get my first 4 names even by adding 3 numbers at the end and **bleep**ing up the spelling so i had to resort not to even a second name but a 3rdname and add 2 numbers still! All because everyone new has to share Resident.

The truth is most people prefer multiple choice to no choice and free choice over all. I think someone said it best earlier.

"hey guys we want to bring custom titles in and lastnames back!!"

"we don't want titles...we just want lastnames back in some form"

"OMG its too polorizing you get special charicters like - in your first name now thats it.....actually maybe thats too good for you. Enjoy your Resident tag NOOB" 

"I will leave this open a bit and then close it and we can talk about something else, an I will pretend I made everyone happy"

 

Seriously, even if 50% wanted a list of last names and 50% wanted custom, make one or the other thats atleast 50% happy and probally 45% will comprimise, and at least get a last name. By just coming out and saying"Durrrr....no" you make 99% mad, dissatisfied, fed up ect ect and 1% say "hey they did something" and that 1% probally has older accounts with last names so are more or less like "hey I got mine" 

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

He notes an hour long presentation telling him 'no can't do it'.

I call BS. Not against him per se, but his IT folks.

I've sat through meetings like that too before - over topics I knew enough about on to know the real answer was: "this takes too much work and will drop my Angry Birds score by having to log overtime."

 

Where I work now, those kinds of meetings stopped when the other managers started hiring outside IT consultants to do a job anytime the internal IT folks fed this line... people starting realizing they could get replaced... and suddenly things became possible again. The budgets might have had some sticker shock in terms of time, and requests for more staff - but the 'no' just didn't happen anymore...

That's the thing about eLance. Your tech geeks say no - get new ones.

 

Integrating systems won't be easy - i get that. But impossible - I don't get that.

 

 

Excellent post, Pussycat!  I completely agree.  These "No." people (Oz Linden was one of them I'm sure) all need to be replaced with someone who can/will take the time to get things done.  I don't buy any of it either.  

Rod has lost a LOT of respect in MY eyes.  First he tells us that he's going to change it and opens a dialogue on his feed.  We give him the myriad of reasons we want the names back and how the change to single names was a horrible, horrible decision in the first place.  He keeps telling us we're working on getting it done!  We get our hopes up.  And then...KA-WHAM! "Oh and by the way...no last names after all.  Our IT people tell me it can't be done.  So, here's some dashes and dots you can use in your name now so it looks more right.  See ya!"

Yeah, right, Rod.  Good job.

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Seven Overdrive wrote:

I still wonder how many that backed out of creating an account when it was time to choose a last name were just current residents name shopping for an alt.  

I can recall about 495 of them... All me.

 

One of the reasons they saw so many 'abandoned account attempts' in the old system is that folks like me hit refresh a few -hundred- times until the last name we wanted popped up, or went through the various community portals via slnamewatch to find the last name we wanted.

By post 2007 - most folks coming to SL knew about it. slnamewatch in widespread use, and a lot of people read that you could get the right last name by working the login screen. Just go back and look at old threads on various forums anytime new names came out. A list of them, followed by "I got an alt with that now" and "how do I get that name" then "here's how". The name GossipGirl is a prime example - shot up to insane numbers overnight -both- through a special portal to promote it, but then kept going after that ended when the third party forums revealed how to keep getting it.

But for every one of me that got made, another hundred or so will show in their logs as abandons. Yet none of those really are.

This doesn't show that the idea of last names was flawed - BUT that the selection method for getting the one yu wanted was flawed. There's a BIG DIFFERENCE between those two conclusions. 

 

His IT folks have manipulated the data in order to avoid doing their jobs, and sold us all a bill of goods.

R. Linden's going to go down as the LL CEO that wasted his good name and undid a lot of the rebuilt goodwill over this... because a few lazy folks in IT don't want to clock in some overtime to remove the lines of code they added in only a year and a half ago.

 He's let himself get swayed by a corporate culture that, according to some of its ex-employee's blogs, describes their customers as 'wackadoodles' and blames said customers for any failings, rather than looking to its own gaps in community management... In the end, that's to turn him into just another M...

 

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Your post pretty much sums it up.  Any data LL had concerning the abandoned sign-up attempts had to have included all of the name shoppers trying to create alts with a specific last name.  They have always downplayed, or flat out ignored,  the impact their users have on the data with the creation of alternate accounts.  There was no reason to get rid of the last names in the first place other than someone at the Lab decided that was what they wanted.  

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:


Seven Overdrive wrote:

I still wonder how many that backed out of creating an account when it was time to choose a last name were just current residents name shopping for an alt.  

I can recall about 495 of them... All me.

 

One of the reasons they saw so many 'abandoned account attempts' in the old system is that folks like me hit refresh a few -hundred- times until the last name we wanted popped up, or went through the various community portals via slnamewatch to find the last name we wanted.

By post 2007 - most folks coming to SL knew about it. slnamewatch in widespread use, and a lot of people read that you could get the right last name by working the login screen. Just go back and look at old threads on various forums anytime new names came out. A list of them, followed by "I got an alt with that now" and "how do I get that name" then "here's how". The name GossipGirl is a prime example - shot up to insane numbers overnight -both- through a special portal to promote it, but then kept going after that ended when the third party forums revealed how to keep getting it.

But for every one of me that got made, another hundred or so will show in their logs as abandons. Yet none of those really are.

This doesn't show that the idea of last names was flawed - BUT that the selection method for getting the one yu wanted was flawed. There's a BIG DIFFERENCE between those two conclusions. 

 

His IT folks have manipulated the data in order to avoid doing their jobs, and sold us all a bill of goods.

R. Linden's going to go down as the LL CEO that wasted his good name and undid a lot of the rebuilt goodwill over this... because a few lazy folks in IT don't want to clock in some overtime to remove the lines of code they added in only a year and a half ago.

 He's let himself get swayed by a corporate culture that, according to some of its ex-employee's blogs, describes their customers as 'wackadoodles' and blames said customers for any failings, rather than looking to its own gaps in community management... In the end, that's to turn him into just another M...

 

Well said!

Someone said this is beyond Epic Fail, this is a Linden Fail.

If last names are so unimportant, it would stand to reason that all Lindens should be stripped of that name, and that anyone who wishes to can use that name, since it is so unimportant.

That will not happen, though, and anyone caught using the name Linden will be punished, so therefore names must be important.

What is glaringly apparent though, is that we as inhabitants of Second Life are not important.

Months of discussion, thousands of voices and after a one hour presentation the masses are essentially told to shut up, oh, and here's a dash, you're welcome. 

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I think its perfectly fair to be sickened by corporations and organisations that make profits but who appear to treat customers as an annoyance and not their priority.

 

In the UK, when i pay my petrol, when i use my bank and now when i log on to relax, i know that someone out there is making money from me and somehow resenting me for it.

 

Yes, that sickens me and it is made worse by the fact that it shouldnt happen.

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