Creation Rights

[Trent Admiral]

I created a roleplay sim for a friend and there was no payment made. I did however tell them that if I ever left the sim or was asked to leave for any reason that all my objects under my name would be returned to me. I was then banned from the sim after they refused and I began returning my own things. They did a rollback on the sim and all my objects are back on sim. My question is "If I told the Owner of the sim that they can no longer use my created objects; do they have to return my objects or am I screwed and have to let it go?"

P.S. I am the Owner of all the objects on the sim. I was in good heart of leaving them until I was banned for a odd reason.

[Cinnamon Lohner]

Well this one's a bit awkward.  If you are the creator but not the owner of the objects, then I would say no you have no right to them.  However, if you are still the owner of the objects then there are ways that you can take them back.  Not sure how you would stop them from rolling back the sim and recreating them.  The graceful solution is to let it go. IMHO

ETA: In answer to your PS.  As I already stated, as owner of the objects there are ways you can remove them from the sim.  I'm just not sure that's really the best thing to do as it could easily flag you as a griefer.

--Cinn

[Innula Zenovka]

I would have thought that, if you own the objects, then there's an end to it.  They're yours and you can take them back into your inventory if that's what you want to do.

Certainly, in my experience, when people have contact LL to say things like "I've been banned from this sim where I was renting land, and now I can't get my objects back," LL have actually over-ridden the ban to allow them back in for a short time to recover their property.

I'm rather surprised LL rolled the sim back, at least on the basis of what you say here.   One of the reasons LL don't like doing roll-backs is precisely  that, in effect, it creates copies of non-copy objects.

[Knowl Paine]

If the events you describe are true, I suspect that the Request for the Region to be rolled back was done intentionally to circumvent Second Life's Terms of Service.

I would report that incident to Linden Lab.

[Cinnamon Lohner]

In this case, possession is 9/10th of the law. Most likely, the build was started and finished before the stipulations for return were placed on the sim owners. Once you rez an object, you can't take it back into inventory unless you are close enough to it to click on it and use the Take command.

[Cinnamon Lohner]

Resident-to-resident agreements are not subject to Linden review. There is an implied agreement here. If you come over to my sim and build something on it for specific use on the sim then even if no money exchanged hands, the implied contract is that the build is mine. What has happened here is that Trent built something on someone else's property and then tried to create a contract after the fact for the conditional use of the build. The sim owners refused the post-build contract and removed Trent from the sim. As I stated in my reply, Trent has ways to get his objects back.

[Lindal Kidd]

Knowl's correct.  Abuse report the region owner for IP violation.  In theory, you could file a DMCA takedown notice on him, too.

[Innula Zenovka]

But LL, as we know, aren't in the business of examining contracts, actual or implied, between residents.

 

What they're going to look at, in this situation, is who is down as the items' owner, and if Trent says to LL, "I am the owner of these objects, and I would like them in my inventory and not on this chap's sim," then, to my mind, it's obvious what LL should, and probably would, do.

[Cinnamon Lohner]

Trent has the ability to go and take those items. I told him how to do it in response to a private message he sent me. The real issue is stopping LL from rolling back the sim and putting them back again. That's when the poop hits the fan!

[Innula Zenovka]

I think I know the technique you may have suggested. But my point was that if LL are apprised of the facts as presented by Trent, and if they accept them, then I can't see them being very sympathetic to repeated requests from the sim-owner for a roll-back on the grounds "but we had an implied contract..".

 

To my mind, they'll take the view that since the database thinks they're Trent's objects, not the sim-owner's, that's what they are, and the sim-owner has no business asking for roll-backs because Trent's removed his own property.

[Cinnamon Lohner]

You only have to read the first sentence of Trent's post to realize where the ownership issue comes in.

 

"I created a roleplay sim for a friend"

 

This one is not as cut and dry as everyone would like it to be I'm afraid.

[Innula Zenovka]

But, if Trent's addendum is true, there's no question of ownership: "P.S. I am the Owner of all the objects on the sim."

The matter's easily settled -- all someone has to do is go and look at whose name appears in the "Owner" box on each object. If Trent's name appears there but, nevertheless, the owner of the sim contends he or she has some claim on them, then he or she should ask a court, not LL, to enforce this claim.

[Knowl Paine]

The OP should file a Ticket with Support and request for access to the Region to retrieve objects Owned by the OP. If the Region is rolled back again, the OP should re-open the Ticket. LL will eventually figure out what is going on here.

 

I agree that things do not appear to be completely "cut and dry", but the Policy on who owns what in SL, is cut and dry. If the Objects are owned by the OP, the objects should be returned.