About privacy, security systems and banlines

[Charolotte Caxton]

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Livio Korobase wrote:

Thank you for your reply, but seem so difficult explain a so simple question... I am not doing a crusade for the ugly banlines, just I want understand if a covenant can include rules that prevent statements included in community standard or TOS, and is not related to a particular owner.

The example is clear, but is not relative to question. The covenant is is the terms and conditions of rental land, this is not in discussion.

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Thank you for your kind reply.

I believe your question is can a land owner state in their covenant that ban lines are not allowed. I believe the answer is yes.

I believe you stated that you believe that the prohibition of ban lines is against the Terms of Service. We have provided examples of why we believe that it is not against the Terms of Service and is actually allowed in the Terms of Service.

The Terms of Service do not word for word state that prohibiting banlines is allowed, however, the Knowledge Base provides an example of how mainland laws do not necessarily apply to private lands under certain conditions, as in the example I quoted and provided to you.

In that way I believed it was relative to the question.

[Phil Deakins]

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Livio Korobase wrote:

So, i ask again if someone know, a estate owner is completely free about the TOS or have to follow some rules? Someone know where i can find this info? thank you.

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An estate owner cannot do anything against the ToS - nothing at all. The ToS applies to everyone.

What you are looking for is somewhere where LL wrote that an estate owner cannot ban ban lines and security devices, but you won't find it. LL doesn't write what you can do - they write what you can't do. You have already been shown the relevant parts of the ToS that apply to your question. You have no choice but to accept it - and accept the word of these *very* experienced people. You won't find anybody anywhere who will tell you what you want to hear, because what you want to hear simply isn't true.

If you don't like the covenant of the land you rent, move.

ETA: Just out of interest, it isn't just estate owners who can ban the use of security devices and ban lines on their land. Mainland owners can do the same, and some landlords rent out mainland land.

[Livio Korobase]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

You won't find what you are looking for written anywhere by LL because it's simply not possible to write down

everything

that is allowed. If you can't understand that, I'm sorry

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Phil i really appreciate your attempt to explain me, but seem that you don't want understand. What i am asking to do IS ALLOWED and REQUESTED by TOS and Community Standard, but INHIBITED by some covenants, i think just because one copied by other. Again, my question is: is this permitted by Linden? Me i don't know, for this i have asked in a forum

If you don't understand that, i am sorry as you.

[Livio Korobase]

Yes Charlotte, i understand and i know, but i was searching to bypass the "believe" state with some concrete documents. I see is not so simple and/or clear, and i think we have used much time on this, so is time to close for me, also because is evident that no one have a safe answer.

[Charolotte Caxton]

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Livio Korobase wrote:

Yes Charlotte, i understand and i know, but i was searching to bypass the "believe" state with some concrete documents. I see is not so simple and/or clear, and i think we have used much time on this, so is time to close for me, also because is evident that no one have a safe answer.

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Ah, I see. Well, sorry I couldn't explain to you better, here are the documents:

Terms of Service, Policies & Guidelines (to include Community Standards)

Here is the link to support, they should be able to give you a safe answer:

Contact Support

I believe if you own a sim, you have access to concierge support, that may be the best option for you.

Please update us if you learn anything different. Thanks.

 

[Phil Deakins]

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Livio Korobase wrote:

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Phil Deakins wrote:

You won't find what you are looking for written anywhere by LL because it's simply not possible to write down

everything

that is allowed. If you can't understand that, I'm sorry

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Phil i really appreciate your attempt to explain me, but seem that you don't want understand. What i am asking to do IS ALLOWED and REQUESTED by TOS and Community Standard, but INHIBITED by some covenants, i think just because one copied by other. Again, my question is: is this permitted by Linden? Me i don't know, for this i have asked in a forum

If you don't understand that, i am sorry as you.

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I'm not misunderstanding it, Livio. I understand exactly what you think and what you want to find. Your thinking is incorrect and what you want to find doesn't exist.

You imagine that landowners simply copied the relevant rules from other land owners, but you are mistaken.

What you are wanting to do (turn some security on) is allowed by LL unless the landowner disallows it. And LL allows the landowner to disallow it, as is clear from the parts of the ToS that have been quoted in this thread. And don't forget, any landowner can disallow it - mainland or estate.

Perhaps it's best if you do what was suggested in the previous post and actually ask LL's support, because you won;t accept what everybody here tells you.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Livio Korobase wrote:

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Phil Deakins wrote:I don't see any reason to ask the question if you don't want the answer, or if you've already decided on the answer. If you don't like that in the covenant, find a place that doesn't have it.

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Philip, i think that is something that owners have copied one by another, without think on this. Is not a matter of experience, if this is legal i like to know where is writed... just this.

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Your looking at this backwards.

It doesn't matter whether or not its permitted, because it is not forbidden.

You're asking a question on an issue that's been resolved since 2003...

And for good reason too. Banlines are w horrid solution that ruins land for all around. Very anti-community, very intrusive with ugly lines all around a parcel, and can cause issues for vehicles and sim crossings.

 

Also, frankly, if you're such a cheapskate that you can't or won't pay the 750L or so to get a security orb... why are you even bothering to pay for land (and that's quoting the price of what I consider the top end product, I recently got one for 350L because it came with a mesh house I bought, and that was the house's price)?

 If you're not a cheapskate, buy an orb. Its easy to use, doesn't hassle people outside the limits you set for it, doesn't ruin the look of the land, and can be controlled to make lists of exactly who has what levels of access. Plus it can be used at any height.

 

[Irene Muni]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

.... .... ... that you can't or won't pay the 750L or so to get a security orb...

 

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Agree with all your comment.

300L$ one of the oldest and useful and reliable Security Orb. I'm not sure if this is allowed in this forums a link to the product, but it's on the MP

[Melita Magic]

Many landlords ban the use of ban lines.

When you rent, you have to abide by the landlord rules. 

It is just that simple.

[Erwin Solo]

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Livio Korobase wrote:

Yes Charlotte, i understand and i know, but i was searching to bypass the "believe" state with some concrete documents. I see is not so simple and/or clear, and i think we have used much time on this, so is time to close for me, also because is evident that no one have a safe answer.

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For clarity then, do the SL equivalent of "asking for your day in court".  File a support ticket to LL with your concern, and see what LL does.  Who knows?  Maybe LL will force all the Estate Owners to rewrite their covenants.  Maybe LL will change the TOS to clarify.

However, I rather suspect that LL will send you a nice response to your support request.

I hope you have a wonderful day!

[Erwin Solo]

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Erwin Solo wrote:  For clarity then, do the SL equivalent of "asking for your day in court".  File a support ticket to LL with your concern, and see what LL does.  Who knows?  Maybe LL will force all the Estate Owners to rewrite their covenants.  Maybe LL will change the TOS to clarify.

However, I rather suspect that LL will send you a nice response to your support request.

I hope you have a wonderful day!

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How did your support request turn out?