Marketplace....Couple of Questions...hope to get answers ....

[Isabella Seibert]

Did a couple of reviews over the last few days ....and looking for help/where to do/ how to follow up/ report???

 

1- bought an item ....wasnt the best......review says 5 star.....come to find out that the selling on marketplace and the selling in world are husband and wife....she sells on marketplace, he sells in world at their store.   AND he has reviewed all the products in HER name which are technically his ...giving them a 5 star...CAN HE DO THIS???

 

2- bought an item....crap...trashed it ..wrote bad review .....designer contacted me and refunded me which i thought was awesome...then today went to put a comment on how great the customer service is and my review was GONE :(((.  I was able to write another one...but now I am not so thrilled...this item has over 14 reviews all wonderful and amazing is the reason i bought the dress......but apparently the maker is taking all the 'bad reviews' off...HOW CAN THEY DO THAT???  is very sad that they are allowed to pick and choose which reviews they allow .....thought reviews were for HONEST REVIEW OF ITEM....but apparently its a big joke ..

SO NOT IMPRESSED !!!

[Ariel Vuissent]

It's not unusual for marketplace sellers to "pad" their reviews by having inworld friends, partners, etc. review the product positively. You should always take reviews with a grain of salt. Generally the more there are, the more I trust them; or if there are a couple bad ones sprinkled in with the good ones, I tend to trust the negative reviews a little more. That doesn't necessarily make me not buy the item, but I do proceed with caution.

As for reviews being removed, I'm not 100% sure how that works. I don't think merchants can do this on their own, but I could be wrong. If the merchant felt your review was really unfair, I believe they can go to LL and ask that it be removed. Or have requested that it be removed because they'd given you a full refund, and felt that doing so evened everything out. But again, I'm not sure exactly how that all works from the seller's side, not having a marketplace store myself. (Or an inworld store, as a matter of fact...)

[Sassy Romano]

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Ariel Vuissent wrote:

As for reviews being removed, I'm not 100% sure how that works. I don't

think

merchants can do this on their own, but I could be wrong. If the merchant felt your review was really unfair, I believe they can go to LL and ask that it be removed. Or have requested that it be removed because they'd given you a full refund, and felt that doing so evened everything out. But again, I'm not sure exactly how that all works from the seller's side, not having a marketplace store myself. (Or an inworld store, as a matter of fact...)

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Reviews may be requested to be removed for a number of reasons not least those regarding failed delivery (that's LL's fault (most of the time)), personal attacks that do not relate to the product, other comments that do not directly relate to the product as a reasonable review.  At least, that's the theory.

Listing violations appear every day, from the very simple, delisting an item and re-listing to dump any bad reviews.  That's not allowed but it's difficult to enforce.  Or incorrect permissions.  The permissions should match those of the LL edit options, i.e. COPY MOD TRANSFER.  "Resize by script" is NOT modify, never was and never will be but some merchants creatively believe this means that the items is modifiable.

As you said, treat the reviews with a pinch of salt. 

[Tari Landar]

Merchants can't have reviews removed willy nilly. Even if they WANT a review removed, it actually does get looked at, before removal.(surprisingly, lol, since the lab rarely looks at much of anything with more than just a glance these days). If your review was removed, it was likely the seller requested, and someone at the lab believed their assessment of your review was spot on. In other words, maybe your review was a bit hasty.

Merchants can't have a review removed simply because they refunded you though, that's not one of the qualifiers. Many have tried, none have succeeded(that I know of).

I do have to ask though, why did you leave a review immediately without actually contacting the seller first? Not that you're obliged or anything(or that you have to actually answer me, lol), but you did say you relied on the reviews because they looked good. For me, I tend to contact merchants first and foremost when something goes awry. A review, assuming I leave one(negative that is, I tend to avoid them entirely, positive ones I leave far more often), is my last resort. I wouldn't leave a negative review before contacting a merchant. Especially if I see that others do think highly, and they don't look like padded reviews. Could easily be a difference of opinion on something. I might think it's crap, while others love it, sort of deal. I prefer not to think too harshly on creators, never really did though. I'm probably a lot more lenient than I should be, lol.

The review system is completely messed up though, has been for ages. I don't know anyone that actually likes it. So I'd always take what you see there with a grain of salt. Sometimes a ton of reviews, glowing(sometimes even same wording) in a short time frame, is an indication those are padded reviews. Some merchants pay customers to leave reviews, or offer an incentive to do so. Apparently, the lab doesn't much care, lol. Same with having friends, family, partners, whatever reivew your items. One of the only items I have ever left a negative review on(I've left three in the last almost 4 years), the seller had people add glowing reviews after mine, so it wouldn't be on the first page. I think it's a couple pages back now. Nothing surprises me in the reviews anymore(not thta much ever did, people can be weird).

[Amethyst Jetaime]

While I agree merchants should be able to removed reviews that criticize a product for something clearly not the creators fault (such as non delivery), for personal attacks, or negative reviews from competitors, its very disturbing that to me that your review was removed if you didn't include any of these things.  Giving a refund is not justification to remove a negative review because the customer was still unhappy with the product.  The merchant can alway add that a refund was given as comment to the review and let the potential customer decide for themselves to ignore the review or not. 

If it were me I'd file a support ticket and protest the removal and ask why it was removed and also report the first merchant who is essentially reviewing his own products if he is the creator of them.

[Tari Landar]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

While I agree merchants should be able to removed reviews that criticize a product for something clearly not the creators fault (such as non delivery), for personal attacks, or negative reviews from competitors, its very disturbing that to me that your review was removed if you didn't include any of these things.  Giving a refund is not justification to remove a negative review because the customer was still unhappy with the product.  The merchant can alway add that a refund was given as comment to the review and let the potential customer decide for themselves to ignore the review or not. 

If it were me I'd file a support ticket and protest the removal and ask why it was removed and also report the first merchant who is essentially reviewing his own products if he is the creator of them.

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A merchant can't remove a review on their own. It's done by LL. You have to request to have it removed, and then it gets reviewed. But if you contact LL and ask why a review was removed, they won't tell you. In fact, they don't even have to tell you.(I think they should, personally, but that's not their policy).

 

[Anita61 Anatine]

Why didn't you talk to the merchant first before writing a bad review? To me that seems a more friendly aproach when your not satisfied with an item and it gives the creator the oppurtunity to improve. It also gives you a sense of the customer service of the store. In my experience a little friendlyness goes a long way!

I must say I don't realy look at reviews much myself because it's easy enough for a merchant to involve friends to write them. 

[Sassy Romano]

I will leave a review and then contact the merchant.

 

The reason is simple, the onus is then on the merchant to provide the service and demonstrate their support and given the number of merchants that seem to fail in that area, the review sticks and I haven't got to spend my time tracking poor service.

 

I always state in my review that I have done it in this order and that I am waiting for a response, if there is none, others can decide if they want to purchase a product with little or no apparent support.

 

It's a simple reversal of the burden of responsibility.

[Ziggy21 Slade]

As others have pointed out reviews are often abused a bit so they do have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I do have to say though, you do seem pretty keen to write bad reviews and although, as Sassy points out, this is your right, you could at least give the merchant an opportunity to rectify an issue before publicly condemning their product, its a bit like going to a restaurant and getting a bad meal and saying nothing about it at the time while the restauranteur has the chance to fix things and then complaining at the end when you get the bill and its too late for anything to be done.

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Isabella Seibert wrote:

2- bought an item....crap...trashed it ..wrote bad review .....

I realise of course, that you are trying to be brief here, but "bought and Item....crap...trashed it"  doesn't sound like the basis of a very considered or constructive opinion and the fact that your review was removed probably suggests it was downright unfair. Remember creators are real people, for most this is a little hobby that makes them or maybe costs them a little bit of money and all are learning on the job at one level or another. You want reviews which are honest and fair, are you sure that yours was, because it seems LL didn't.

[Sassy Romano]

agreed Ziggy except that if you bought something from a shop and got home to find it not as advertised but you couldn't talk to them until after the weekend, you might probably tell friends about it in the meantime

[Perrie Juran]

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Sassy Romano wrote:

I will leave a review and then contact the merchant.

 

The reason is simple, the onus is then on the merchant to provide the service and demonstrate their support and given the number of merchants that seem to fail in that area, the review sticks and I haven't got to spend my time tracking poor service.

 

I always state in my review that I have done it in this order and that I am waiting for a response, if there is none, others can decide if they want to purchase a product with little or no apparent support.

 

It's a simple reversal of the burden of responsibility.

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Do you really not understand how bad this makes you look?

I've had this happen to me as a RL retailer.  I would and could have easily replaced the defective merchandise.  Instead I left the customer out to dry and told them they would need to deal with the manufacturer them self. 

With all the foibles of SL, that is truly unfair to the Merchants.

I once bought some shirts that I had seen another Avatar wearing.  I thought they looked great.  I asked them where they got them and went and bought a few.  On my Avatar they didn't look so hot because of the way the textures stretched over my shape.  This is one of the reasons you very rarely see plaids or stripes used in clothes in SL. 

What you are doing is truly unfair to the merchants.  Because the odds that someone would go back and re-read your update to your negative review after the problem is fixed are about zilch.

 

[Sassy Romano]

depends on dates. if I leave a review that is objective and states that I'm waiting for the merchant to respond, if that is still pending 6 months later, what does that tell you about whether the merchant responded or not?

[Mickey Vandeverre]

Hello Isabella -

on #1) you can report that with a support ticket.  Make sure it goes to the marketplace category, and they generally review those within 24 hours during the week, and report back to you.

on #2) if the merchant refunded your money, then it is a wash, and review should be removed.  If someone contacted me about dissatisfaction with a product, I would appreciate the chance to simply refund the money, and correct the situation.  Then, I would contact the marketplace people and ask that the review be removed, as I corrected that situation.  Perhaps what happened in this instance.  We cannot correct those ourselves. 

on the item being crap....you trashed it.....holy cow.  If it were that bad, perhaps a note to the merchant first.

Please consider that we have all types of "merchants" here.  Some do it for pure joy of creating, some for the joy of running a shop, that they may not be able to do in physical world, some do it for an income, and on and on.

We are all mixed up together in the marketplace, and LL has not chosen, just yet....to make clear distinctions on which one of those categories we are all operating under.  Thank god.

a really bad review can pull someone's bread and butter income off the table.  or it may take their "joy" ....doubt you would want to do that.  Please consider contacting them first. 

In general...I've read enough pages of reviews, then cross-referenced with avatars,  to determine that many are bogus, so as others suggested take them with a grain of salt.  The system is clearly gamed.  But it's probably the best we can do.  You are dealing with anonymous avatars that can multiply.

example of questionable review:

"omg, I searched everywhere!  all the other stores have crappy stuff and I found this absolutely wonderful store!  blah blah blah.....everyone else's products were crap until I found this amazing store!"

same avatar writes this review on three other products from same store:

"omg - I found a new amazing store!  .....

ummm duh....avatar already wrote 6 times that they found a new store.

In many situations, the reviews are quite comical when matching them all up.  (not comical for someone who is losing income due to manipulation of reviews, though)

I've seen manipulated reviews place product on the top pages of search and dominate for 20 to 40 pages, while a merchant with legit reviews gets crushed to page 45 perhaps.  Might be what is happening to a particular product category, as you suggested in #1, and appreciate you noticing that.  Report on that might save someone's income that week.

Be aware, that just one 5-star review (and we appreciate those dearly!) can jump a product from obscurity to page one overnight.  Once it is on page one....then there will be automatic sales following, simply from placement.

That is the power that you have in your fingertips.  And it works the opposite direction as well.  Please consider contacting a merchant first, before pulling the plug on their joy or income.  Thank you. 

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Sassy Romano wrote:

depends on dates. if I leave a review that is objective and states that I'm waiting for the merchant to respond, if that is still pending 6 months later, what does that tell you about whether the merchant responded or not?

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1.  You are assuming people are paying attention to the dates.

2.  What if something prevents you from going back with a new review?

3.  What if the shop owner is ill, on vacation, or for what ever reason is delayed in responding to you?

4.  I can go on building this list with several more things.  While I will agree there are some lousy merchants it still does not justify your smearing any Merchant before you allow them a chance to respond.

5.  For any one who is aware of the foibles of SL, all the problems Merchants are dealing with in the Marketplace, etc, etc, to not show the Merchants a little courtesy is just wrong.  Over and over again we here people complain about Merchants in the Forums, asking us what they should do. Time and time again they haven't contacted the Merchant.  And time after time we tell them to contact the Merchant they get back with us and say the Merchant took care of them after they contacted them. 

So I'd say consider your self fortunate that many of the Merchants have learned they have to deal with all kinds of crap from customers and that they respond with patience.  In my almost 5 years in SL,with only one exception, I have never had a merchant fail to respond to a problem I had, several of them even going out of their way to customize something for me so it would better suit my purposes.  And I've got that kind of service with out threatening to smear their reputations or any other behavior of that kind.  A few of them have even thanked me for treating them courteously and gifted me with additional goods.

[Sassy Romano]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Sassy Romano wrote:

depends on dates. if I leave a review that is objective and states that I'm waiting for the merchant to respond, if that is still pending 6 months later, what does that tell you about whether the merchant responded or not?

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1.  You are assuming people are paying attention to the dates.

2.  What if something prevents you from going back with a new review?

3.  What if the shop owner is ill, on vacation, or for what ever reason is delayed in responding to you?

4.  I can go on building this list with several more things.  While I will agree there are some lousy merchants it still does not justify your smearing any Merchant before you allow them a chance to respond.

5.  For any one who is aware of the foibles of SL, all the problems Merchants are dealing with in the Marketplace, etc, etc, to not show the Merchants a little courtesy is just wrong.  Over and over again we here people complain about Merchants in the Forums, asking us what they should do. Time and time again they haven't contacted the Merchant.  And time after time we tell them to contact the Merchant they get back with us and say the Merchant took care of them after they contacted them. 

So I'd say consider your self fortunate that many of the Merchants have learned they have to deal with all kinds of crap from customers and that they respond with patience.  In my almost 5 years in SL,with only one exception, I have never had a merchant fail to respond to a problem I had, several of them even going out of their way to customize something for me so it would better suit my purposes.  And I've got that kind of service with out threatening to smear their reputations or any other behavior of that kind.  A few of them have even thanked me for treating them courteously and gifted me with additional goods.

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1. I don't assume that anyone pays attention to dates, if someone is reading a review of mine that states that i'm waiting for a response and it's still there, then it's because...i'm waiting for a response!  That ought to mean that it's within a very short time window if the merchant is still active in SL and able to respond.  If not, then the statement that i'm still waiting is perfectly valid and any reference to dates is irrelevant.

2.  What if something prevents me from returning to leave a review in the first place that highlights issues?

3. How long does ill/vacation other issue have to be in order to be considered long?  I have an example of 6 months, is that long enough?  If they're ill for such an extended period that nothing can be rectified, is it still appropriate to be receiving money for faulty goods for example?  How about dead?  Yes it happens.

An equal list of opposites is also possible. 

My experience is quite the opposite of yours, too many merchants who dont' respond, too many who feel that adding a resize script makes it modify and that warrants them laughing at a request for the actual product paid for, changing descriptions post review and so on.  It's pretty dysfunctional behaviour.

I don't accept the "woe the poor merchant" stance at all and in that we will no doubt disagree but after purchase, if there's a valid issue with the product, the customer is the party who is at loss.  Regardless of any remedy, the merchant has the money while the customer has potentially no enjoyment from the purchase and no recourse whatsoever in making that remedy happen and is totally at the mercy of the actions of the merchant.

Therefore I simply stand by my original statement, the onus for appropriate rectification is reversed and the burden is on the merchant to demonstrate outstanding service, not the other way around.

There are sufficient methods to stay in touch with ones business in SL for a serious merchant that any such review stating "pending outcome" should remain for a very short period in most cases.  However, please do not assume any attempt to smear, there is nothing wrong in stating the factual issues raise with a product and how what action is pending from the other party, when the money and the customer has no enjoyment in return for that payment, how long do you suggest that the customer waits and has to keep track of remembering to go back and review the item? 

Marketplace problems are typically delays, non-delivery, poor reporting, no email on reviews being left (a huge issue in this case, more so than any other) and delayed payments.  However, again, in choosing to list on the Marketplace, these are risk cases that the merchants chooses to accept.  They can mitigate against these issues by not listing on Marketplace and remaining inworld as an only sales option.  So given that these risk cases are known and understood by merchants (or should be!), merchants need to be even more on the ball, making apologies for Marketplace is a given, the ability to follow up on a complaint is firmly in the merchants lap.  Remember, i'm referring solely to complaints about goods received, not about Marketplace delivery issues.

Simply, if the merchant is on the ball then it won't be a problem.

[Mickey Vandeverre]

Wow.

onus - recourse - factual issues - other party - mitigate............

there's a place for every fantasy in second life, I suppose.

 

[Sassy Romano]

You're rigth, while it may be fun for some to play fantasy shopkeeper, for as long as the money spent is real, there will always be a clash of ideals.  Far too often, customers are laughed at with the comments such as "but it's only $1 US, get over it" or "what do you expect, it's only <insert marginal RL value>".