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Jo Yardley

Temp Rezzers, ok or bad?

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Useful?  Well, only if you're desperately strapped for real prims.

In which case, changing the Physics Shape Type should be the first excercise. I DO like Land Impact. Everything in my store, that can benefit from it, has been changed. The best result was with my 9-prim kitchen assemblies. They reduced to 5 prims. Percentagewise, some stuff reduced 50% - 2 prims to 1 prim - but the kitchen assemblies dropping from 9 to 5 were the best.

 


I used to temp-rez fussy, primmy, decorative stuff.  I even had this elaborate script that watched where folks were and started rezzing only those decorations that were near avatars.  Worked like a charm, too -- until I noticed what happened when there were a lot of people viewing the same temp-rezzed stuff.  Making all the stuff phantom helped some, but ultimately ripping out the temp-rezzers easily doubled the avatar capacity.

You could have displayed less attractive stuff so that people wouldn't want to stop and look :)

 

 

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Oh, another place where I currently use temp-on-rez objects is for some sensor probes that scan for traffic on the SLRR.  I'm not thrilled about doing it because it adds a tiny bit of overhead for the sims through which the probes pass, but it solves the problem of getting stranded somewhere because the next sim to be visited has suddenly gone offline.  I don't do it uniformly, but I turn it on when rolling restarts drive me crazy with too many stranded, auto-returned probes.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

In which case, changing the Physics Shape Type should be the first excercise.

Absolutely.  Although I hate how they handled the script penalty, I otherwise really enjoy the new Land Impact calculation.  It does, however, make me even more careful about not buying no-mod stuff, because it's so frustrating to not be able to so easily reduce excessive primcount baked-in by the object's creator.

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You'll be safe shopping in my store then - everything is mod :)

And I've put a big sign up aboutt LI, that gives a nc explaining it, and explaining how to change their own stuff - not that you'd need such a nc though lol

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Phil Deakins wrote:


Wildcat Furse wrote:

using temp rezzers = harassment = permaban *meows*

PS. including the ones that created them ...... :matte-motes-inlove:

Either that's totally untrue, or LL made a rule along the way that I'm not aware of. Which is it?

If they made a rule against temp rezzers, I'm sure that plenty of those who already posted in the thread would have known about it and said so. Also, judging by the search results, there is no such rule.

it's just my personal opinion Phil, I hate temp rezzers ....: *meows*

PS.

I had once a neighbour, he had on his free 512sqm lot a temp rezzer active rezzing a 500 prims car every 30 secs, the joke was that he not only terrorized the whole sim with it, but even funnier was that he was online 15 minutes per week ... I reported him and the temp rezzer was removed by LL.. period lol! If people cannot afford to lease more land to get more prims, well then live with what you can maximum afford, without taking away the experience from the others.....

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Phil Deakins wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:

The staggerring is something they do do now.

As I said in a later post to the one you replied to, I like the idea of staggering. It's something that only occured to me as a result of your post, and never at the time I made and sold the temp rezzer.

It doesn't reduce the lag though. It can't do that. It spreads it so that there isn't the spike that there used to be.

There's theory and there's practice.

Get one of these things, set it up, and watch the script time, script memory and FPS.

Times have changed. Or something has.

The impact of a properly setup rezzer will be neglible - you'll notice a sexbed or even greeter script more.

 

Pretty much everyone who has never even used one of these has a rock solid 'I know it cause I know it' opinion about them, based on severely out-dated facts. They're like voodoo-bunnies; they make a great source of blame when 'things just right round these here parts' for the uninformed.

Just about anything in SL can be abused. The worst such cases tend to involve resize scripts in hair and prim feet - but these too are rapidly moving on to new scripts that are low lag. Likewise breedables... OMG those bunnies will nuke your SL... except.. when you actually look into it, the 'sim nuking breedables' are largely a thing of the past.

- Older, problematic cases linger. And any of these can be wrongly used even now. But that doesn't make them 'outright horrid' on their own. This isn't like copybotting that has no justification and only does harm.

 

But, its a lot more fun to jump on a bandwagon of misinformation than to actually look into something.

I've certainly done that myself in past over breedables.

But its still a foolish move.

 

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TempRezzers are forbidden in the linden home TOS. Temp rezzers don't count against a parcel, but do count against the sim total. As temp rezzers run, each prim they create requires a message be sent to all nearby avatars. Lag is the inevitable result. Like making your neighbors pay part of your water bill when you leave the spinklers on overnight. Temp rezzers are easily abused... the function was meant for easy cleanup of bullets & such. Rezzing at 60 second intervals is very script intensive * server/lag heavy, they literaly "confuse" the asset server & the "new" temp rezzed prims can actually cause "old" prims on the SIM to be returned. They were never intended to allow people to have more prims than intended for their parcel. They should only be used in special cases (like bullets & particles). Landlords generally don't allow them & will evict you if they find you're using them. They inflict lag on everyone nearby.

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

The impact of a properly setup rezzer will be neglible - you'll notice a sexbed or even greeter script more.

 

Its very hard to allow 'properly set up" temp rezzers as a landlord without allowing them all.  Everyone that uses them thinks they are properly set up and/or appropriate for their situation.  If you disallow one but allow others people will scream UNFAIR.

Since the OP asked the question in the context of managing rentals on a public sim, my advice is still not to allow them. The bottom line is that allowing tenants or land owners on a sim to use them and is more hassel then they are worth. You end up with mad users if you disallow their's but not others, or mad neighbors that feel they are bad under any circumstance. 

If a landlord wants to spend their time constantly checking on them and then explaining to hard headed people why they can't use them, why others can, giving tutorials on 'proper use' and appeasing mad neighbors, be my guest . If an owner of a private estate that is not rented out wants to use them, that's ok with me to.  But personally I won't rent or buy land on any sim that allows them and ban them from any estate I own or control.

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Ample Clarity wrote:

TempRezzers are forbidden in the linden home TOS. Temp rezzers don't count against a parcel, but do count against the sim total.

You're way out of date, my friend.

Temp prims used to count agains the sim's 15,000 prims but they haven't done so for years. They do count against a sim's temp prim total though, which is also a limited number, but they are over and above the sim's normal 15,000 prim total. Less, of course for, homestead sims and such.

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:

The staggerring is something they do do now.

As I said in a later post to the one you replied to, I like the idea of staggering. It's something that only occured to me as a result of your post, and never at the time I made and sold the temp rezzer.

It doesn't reduce the lag though. It can't do that. It spreads it so that there isn't the spike that there used to be.

There's theory and there's practice.

Get one of these things, set it up, and watch the script time, script memory and FPS.

Times have changed. Or something has.

The impact of a properly setup rezzer will be neglible - you'll notice a sexbed or even greeter script more.

I don't need to get one and set it up, Pussycat. What I meant was that staggering the rezzing can't reduce the server work that is caused by the temp rezzer, because all the actions still have to be done by the server, just as they always had to be done. Each object has to be rezzed, and each object has to be cleared away. It's not possible to design a temp rezzer that avoids those server actions. What staggering does is spread the actions out over time (within the minute) so that they don't all occur at the same time, which is what used to happen with temp rezzers (and maybe still does with some) and, presumably, was the reason why people have been down on temp rezzers. It doesn't matter how well scripts are written, it's not possible to write scripts that avoid all those server actions every minute.

I'm not negative about the server work that temp rezzers cause. Every action creates it. If you turn, you creat it, etc. etc. So server work is never the issue. When I refer to lag caused by temp rezzers, I don't mean it in a negative way. In fact lag is the wrong word, because it really means a slow-down, which is not always the case. "Server load" or "server work" is a better way of putting it. I think we use the word "lag" wrongly many times. I've edited this post  accordingly.

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I will ban them anyway, even if they had no effect on the sim at all.

The reason being that when they are used at the moment the rental system does a prim check, this system will send me and my managers an message about a tenant being over their prim limit.

Sometimes our sim only has a few available prims and someone rezzing 200+ prims above their limit would give us a heartattack, assuming the sim was about to start returning objects to everyone, even if it wouldn't.

A few people would probably stop whatever they are doing in RL or in SL and rush to the sim to see what is going on.

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I've enjoyed the discussion that your thread brought about, and I would do exactly the same as you - not allow them. I didn't allow them when I rented skyboxes out. That was because it wasn't immediately obvious how many prims a tenant was using, and I wanted it to be immediately obvious.

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Just the other day, I noticed a bunch of objects being returned to me from one of my satellite stores. It turned out the mall owner had a temp rezzer running for one of his trains and since I was the last person to rent the shop, my objects were retuned (because if a temp rezzed obects go beyond the sims prim limit, the most recently rezzed objects get returned. :-)

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Ample Clarity wrote:

Just the other day, I noticed a bunch of objects being returned to me from one of my satellite stores. It turned out the mall owner had a temp rezzer running for one of his trains and since I was the last person to rent the shop, my objects were retuned (because if a temp rezzed obects go beyond the sims prim limit, the most recently rezzed objects get returned. :-)

That used to be the case, but LL changed it a few years ago. Before they changed it, if temp rezzed objects, including bullets and the like, caused a sim to exceed its prim capacity, then the sim would return other objects. But after the change, temp prims don't count in the sim's prim limit. They are over and above it, as they should always have been. It should never have been the case that firing bullets into, or in, a prim-full sim, caused normal object to be returned.

I don't know the details with your experience, of course, but rezzers (not temp rezzers) will do what you decribed.

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I know this thread is one year old, but could it be that the old temp rezzing problem (temp rezzed objects being added to the total sim's prim count) has returned, or never has disappeared?

Yesterday when I rezzed an object of about 40 prims on my land (which has almost 300 prims left) it was returned within one minute with the message that the sim was full. I tried it twice again with the same result.

Thinking about temp rezzers I looked at my neighbours land and two of them indeed had temp rezzing flower pots that together rezz about one thousand prims every minute. The sim has about 2500 prims left.

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Did a little Google search to add more to this thread...

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/PRIM_TEMP_ON_REZ

http://forums-archive.secondlife.com/8/cd/305651/1.html

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Technical/Temporary-prims-versus-rezzables/qaq-p/1300501

The first link has a link to the second...

The maximum temporary prims allowed are based on the regular prim limit: 
(regular_prim_limit - current_regular_prims) + minimum(0.5 * regular_prim_limit + 400, 1000) 
See this forum post and SVC-2380[c] for details.

If the two parcels are close to their prim limit and using 1000 additional (temp rez) prims each, they might be using everyone else's temp prims too.  I'd complain to the landlord if you have one, or create an abuse report if you're on mainland.

 

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It was interesting reading this old thread again - I read it all the way through.

All I knbow about temp rims being over and above a sim's normal allocation. LL stated that some years ago in the release notes for server upgrade. I don't know if anyone ever checked it. I certainly didn't. And I've never heard of any indication from LL that they undid the change. So I have to assume that temp prims are still over and above a sim's normal prim allowance.

I can't imagine why your objects gets returned with the 'sim full' message. If your neighbours are temp rezzing ~1000 prims every minute, it means that for a short time those flower pots will count for ~2000 prims. If the sim has ~2500 spare prims, those flower pots wouldn't cause your object to be returned, even if LL undid the temp prim change.

 

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