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Time to rethink my commitment to SL


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Eio Tuqiri wrote:

Replying to Monti Messmer who said, "What worries me more is the line about - release this new build features for Linden Realms only to a selected crowd - (not his original words but thats the meaning)."

I believe this is the part of Rod's post? "we will be releasing new tools used to develop Linden Realms, which will allow Residents to create even richer original experiences in Second Life. To prevent abuse of these tools, we will introduce a "creators" program in which verified members will be given access to these very powerful capabilities."

I'm with you Monti, I had a bad feeling about that too.

 

creation has always been limited to those that wish to learn it..owning can be for everyone.. content creators and owners and customers that just use these things..i'm looking forward to hearing more about this..i don't think the old market will be going away..i'm hoping things will expand with this..

the economy is filled with content creators and content owners..i'm hoping it will still be that way and we still buy and sell if we create or just buy creations for our products..

there may be a lot of really new ground that could be making some creators wealthy if it pans out..and that could be good for everyone and the economy..

or it could flop and we are done..hehehehe

that whole ability to make life has a lot of possibilities for many things..i'm curious as a cat in a box right now lol

"For creators our first new feature for 2012 will be pathfinding. Because worlds feel most vibrant when they are full of life, one of our next focuses for Second Life is the ability to make high-quality “life” within it. So in 2012, we will be rolling out more advanced features that will allow the creation of artificial life and artificial people to be much smoother. For starters, in Q1, we'll unveil a new, robust pathfinding system that will allow objects to intelligently navigate around the world while avoiding obstacles.Combined with the tools from Linden Realms this will make the polished creation of full MMORPG’s or people/animal simulators within Second Life easier and of high quality.

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I really wish that blog had more concrete facts and less fluff. Quotes from the Blog post are in blue:

"In Q1 2012 , we will be releasing new tools used to develop Linden Realms, which will allow Residents to create even richer original experiences in Second Life. To prevent abuse of these tools, we will introduce a "creators" program in which verified members will be given access to these very powerful capabilities."

I take that to mean something similar to what they are already doing for Mesh Import. You have to have valid payment info on file and have to take a simple test that validates that you have at least seen the policies on the use of that capability. Personally, I don't want capabilities like forced teleports and forced attaching of attachments to be in the hands of people who have no personally identifying info on file. Imagine the crime spree when a griefer makes an attachment that force attaches without notification or a way to decline, spoofs a dialog, and drains your L$ balance. It makes sense to restrict access to processes that can easily be abused.

I would not, however, want to see a similar restriction on all content creation. Anyone should be allowed to use the basic content creation tools, at least to make stuff for their own use. The ability for Residents to create what they can imagine in SL is a critical feature.

Using a "Creators" restriction for selling content, at least on Marketplace, would be a mixed case. It would certainly make it easier to police the people who resell stolen or freebie content, and would eliminate a lot of the abuse there, if LL started cracking down on such abuses, instead of turning a blind eye to them. But it would also have a chilling effect on the SL economy, because a lot of newbie merchants might get excluded.

"...since we deployed Mesh earlier this year, we’ve seen more than a 16 percent adoption rate."

Can anyone define what in the h*** this means?

  • 16% have gone through the process to be certified to upload Mesh? (Maybe, but a not very valid stat.)
  • Only 16% are using a mesh-capable Viewer? (Comical spin, if true, but I doubt it.)
  • 16% have purchased at least one Mesh item on SLM? (I really doubt that)
  • 16% have at least one Mesh item in Inventory? (How would they even determine that?)

This sounds like a statistic pulled out of his... PR folder... with no basis in reality.

"In 2012, the primary engineering focus of Q1 will be server side performance and fixing bugs."

Hooray! About time... I'll believe it when I see the list of long-standing JIRA bug issues start to seriously decline.

"For landowners, existing land tier pricing will not go up in 2012."

Good, but not enough. As Deltango stated, tier seriously needs to get LESS expensive. A LOT less expensive. How can they possibly fail to understand that, with the huge tracts of abandoned Mainland out there, and the disasterously low prices on land sales?

"In addition, our service and quality focus in 2012 also means that we will be delivering features and policies that we believe will significantly assist merchants and landowners in running a business more profitably."

If that means more policy changes where they don't ever consult the merchants, content creators and residents about the desirability or usefulness of the policy changes, this could do a lot more harm than good. LL's track record for making good policy decisions and implementing them well is abyssmal.

"For creators our first new feature for 2012 will be pathfinding. Because worlds feel most vibrant when they are full of life, one of our next focuses for Second Life is the ability to make high-quality “life” within it. So in 2012, we will be rolling out more advanced features that will allow the creation of artificial life and artificial people to be much smoother. For starters, in Q1, we'll unveil a new, robust pathfinding system that will allow objects to intelligently navigate around the world while avoiding obstacles. Combined with the tools from Linden Realms this will make the polished creation of full MMORPG’s or people/animal simulators within Second Life easier and of high quality."

That would be great, if SL was all about being a game creation tool. But that is completely missing the point of how most Residents use SL. A focus on trying to make SL into a game creation tool is like trying to make new and better ways to use every tool in your toolkit as a hammer, even if most of them are wrenches, screwdrivers and chisels. SL is very poorly suited to being a game creation environment.

"In addition to delivering new features and increasing our support for Second Life, we will be launching some completely different products next year not related to Second Life. Some of them will be very experimental, but all will fit within our company’s proud history of enabling creativity, which I hope may interest some of you."

As long as they don't divert resources away from fixing and improving, SL, fine. But they don't have sufficient resources right now to properly provide support or development for SL, so how they think they can support more new products is a mystery to me.

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PeterCanessa Oh wrote:

Rod's a game developer, wants to make SL a games platform and LL a games company.

You may be right but there's no reason to suppose you are. Rod did come from a games company but that doesn't mean that games are what he's all about. It just means is that he has a good understanding of games behind the scenes.

I don't assume that Realms is a step towards SL becoming a games platform. I see it merely as a positive step towards something that SL should have had for a very long time, but the powers that be at LL were clueless. When new people sign up, there was absolutely nothing for them to do. Nothing. Unless a person knows what SL actually is in advance, s/he will expect there to be something to do. Realms provides something to do - something to occupy and benefit new people while they are getting a handle on what SL actually is.

If anyone tried to come up with something for people to do while they are getting used to SL, I think most would come up with some some of reward scheme, which is what Realms is. We agreed on that not long ago, before any of us had heard of Realms. And I think that most people would come up with making it some sort of game in which users can gain rewards. It didn't need anyone from a games company to come up with that sort of idea.

So I don't see Realms as an indication that LL is moving SL towards being a games platform. I might wrong, of course, but I don't see it that way.

Incidentally, LL needs to hire somone with an imagination. Calling it Linden Realms? What a silly idea. "Realms" is good name for a game but not "Linden Realms".

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Phil Deakins wrote:


PeterCanessa Oh wrote:

Rod's a game developer, wants to make SL a games platform and LL a games company.

You may be right but there's no reason to suppose you are. Rod did come from a games company but that doesn't mean that's what he's all about. It just means is that he has a good understanding of games behind the scenes.

I don't assume that Realms is a step towards SL becoming a games platform. I see it merely as a positive step towards something that SL should have had for a very long time, but the powers that be at LL were clueless. When new people sign up, there was absolutely nothing for them to do. Nothing. Unless a person knows what SL actually is in advance, s/he will expect there to be something to do. Realms provides something to do - something to occupy and benefit new people while they are getting a handle on what SL actually is.

If anyone tried to come up with something for people to do while they are getting used to SL, I think most would come up with some some of reward scheme, which is what Realms is. We agreed on that not long ago, before any of us had heard of Realms. And I think that most people would come up with making it some sort of game in which users can gain rewards. I didn't need anyone from a games company to come up with that sort of idea.

So I don't see Realms as an indication that LL is moving SL towards being a games platform. I might wrong, of course, but I don't see it that way.

Incidentally, LL needs to hire somone with an imagination. Calling it Linden Realms? What a silly idea. "Realms" is good name for a game but not "Linden Realms".

i'm hoping it brings more life to second life..

maybe i decided to go out on the water on my sail boat and all of a sudden a team of dolphins are in front of my boat because they love to do that kind of thing..

or i'm in some gore community  bored..hey i know what we can do..lets head over to the cave and slay that dragon we been talking about slaying for some time now LOL

omg who in their right mind would put mosquito's on their land!!!

sitting on the dock watching a sunset and tonight the fish seem to be active jumping out of the water..

i may be off on how this whole thing works with this new life thing..but if it's close to AI or anything it could be pretty cool..

 

 

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

"For creators our first new feature for 2012 will be pathfinding. Because worlds feel most vibrant when they are full of life, one of our next focuses for Second Life is
the ability to make high-quality “life” within it.
So in 2012, we will be rolling out more advanced features that will allow the creation of artificial life and artificial people to be much smoother. For starters, in Q1, we'll unveil a new, robust pathfinding system that will allow objects to intelligently navigate around the world while avoiding obstacles.Combined with the tools from Linden Realms this will make the polished creation of full MMORPG’s or people/animal simulators within Second Life easier and of high quality.

This would be perhaps my biggest concern.

I can see a specific benefit for some types of role play SIMS.

But when I am out and about I want to interact with real people, not robots.  When I go clubbing, I dont want to be dancing with a bunch of robots.

So while I can see a limited use for this, I don't want to be exploring a mainland infested with robots.  Just think how nuts it could drive you  if they are so well done that you couldn't distinguish them at first glance from REAL AVATARS.  And if they are clearly distinguishable, then I'd feel like I was just playing some 3D shoot em up game on my computer.

Second Life to me is about interacting with real people.

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Ceera Murakami wrote:

"For creators our first new feature for 2012 will be pathfinding. Because worlds feel most vibrant when they are full of life, one of our next focuses for Second Life is the ability to make high-quality “life” within it. So in 2012, we will be rolling out more advanced features that will allow the creation of artificial life and artificial people to be much smoother. For starters, in Q1, we'll unveil a new, robust pathfinding system that will allow objects to intelligently navigate around the world while avoiding obstacles. Combined with the tools from Linden Realms this will make the polished creation of full MMORPG’s or people/animal simulators within Second Life easier and of high quality."

That would be great, if SL was all about being a game creation tool. But that is completely missing the point of how most Residents use SL. A focus on trying to make SL into a game creation tool is like trying to make new and better ways to use every tool in your toolkit as a hammer, even if most of them are wrenches, screwdrivers and chisels. SL is very poorly suited to being a game creation environment.

I have to disagree with you, Ceera. I see it this way...

We don't know what the new tools will be but it does sound like they will enable people to create much better games that they can now, rather than just being more building tools. If that's the case, I can well imagine people creating some decent little games in SL. People do it now and, if the new tools can help create much better games, then those people will do it, and more people are likely to give it a go. I don't envisage SL becoming a games platform as such, but I can see it becoming a world that has a good number of decent games for people to enjoy. And I can see that being much more appealing to new people than it is now.

On the whole, I'm positive about the new tools, as long as they are not building tools. I would become extremely negative about them if they were just extra building tools and the vast majority of the population were denied them.

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:

"For creators our first new feature for 2012 will be pathfinding. Because worlds feel most vibrant when they are full of life, one of our next focuses for Second Life is
the ability to make high-quality “life” within it.
So in 2012, we will be rolling out more advanced features that will allow the creation of artificial life and artificial people to be much smoother. For starters, in Q1, we'll unveil a new, robust pathfinding system that will allow objects to intelligently navigate around the world while avoiding obstacles.Combined with the tools from Linden Realms this will make the polished creation of full MMORPG’s or people/animal simulators within Second Life easier and of high quality.

This would be perhaps my biggest concern.

I can see a specific benefit for some types of role play SIMS.

But when I am out and about I want to interact with real people, not robots.  When I go clubbing, I dont want to be dancing with a bunch of robots.

So while I can see a limited use for this, I don't want to be exploring a mainland infested with robots.  Just think how nuts it could drive you  if they are so well done that you couldn't distinguish them at first glance from REAL AVATARS.  And if they are clearly distinguishable, then I'd feel like I was just playing some 3D shoot em up game on my computer.

Second Life to me is about interacting with real people.

one quick way to find out would be how we check for bots..a profile..

these probably won't have any..unlike bots where we still had to guess with some from a profile..

and they more than likely won't show up on a mini map..so i think there will be ways to tell..as long as they don't have to have some sort of account to be used.. =)

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Phil Deakins wrote:

They won't have profiles and they won't cause green dots. They may or may not have names above their heads.

My point is as I said, I want to dance with real people and if I have to weave my way through twenty robots to find a real person I would not be happy.  And no matter how easy it might be to recognize a Robot, I just don't want to be surrounded by them.  Other people may not mind but I will.  I know that's a personal choice, but until we see it how it is implemented it is hard to make a judgement.

My desire in my SL is to interact with real people.

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:

They won't have profiles and they won't cause green dots. They may or may not have names above their heads.

My point is as I said, I want to dance with real people and if I have to weave my way through twenty robots to find a real person I would not be happy.  And no matter how easy it might be to recognize a Robot, I just don't want to be surrounded by them.  Other people may not mind but I will.  I know that's a personal choice, but until we see it how it is implemented it is hard to make a judgement.

My desire in my SL is to interact with real people.

i'm  just saying we won't be so easily fooled to land in those places that have bots in them..so if green dots are showing up on the map or mini map then maybe they are people there..

bots with accounts had us landing in places we thought were people populated..that won't work with this technology because we won't be able to see them anywhere but up close and rezzed or rezzing..

i don't want a world of fake people either..but it would be cool to be hanging out and a deer run passed or stop and get all playful  with another deer..

i'm not looking at what the scammers are going to do with this..i want to see what the creators are going to do with this..

screw the scammers..i can sort them out fast..

give me that cool fantasy forest that has been stuck in your imagination because you didn't have the tools until now to really create it the way you wanted..that's what i want in my sl..something cool hehehe

we are probably in some way going to get someone that figures out scams for it..as long as we get the good side of the deal as well..

and hopefully it is good enough that it starts to attract people to the grid..

sorry but i just can't let myself fall into the negative yet..i still like having hopes for better things..and if they don't happen and SL dies.i doubt i'll be remembering all the bad times i had..i'll probably have some really rosey colored sunglasses about my times here hehehe

at least i hope i do lol

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the new tools at the moment powerful bc they break at least 3 systems permissions to work. is maybe a 4th one as well but i not test for that yet

autoattach hud breaks the accept / decline permission. it also breaks the attach permission. u cant decline the hud when is given to u at the moment. it auto attachs to ur viewer whether u want it or not. is also possible to make a hud that silently attaches to ur viewer and then detaches itself, so u not even know that happened

the portal teleport function breaks the llMapDestination permission. u get autoteleported if u walk into a stationary portal automagically. you also get autoteleported if u get hit by a moving portal. the rock monstas on the realms scripted to do that way. so can make bullets and stuff with this function. the destination of where u can be teleported to can be anywhere in SL

is quite a fundamental change to start breaking permissions. is why ll a bit worried about who can have access to these new scripting functions if they release as is

thats all they are really so far. just scripting functions that do stuff that u can do now anyways. they just not need ur permission to do stuff on/to u anymore

the pathfinding script functions not available yet. that be of more interest to more ppl i think who want to make npcs and life forms. is also a AI type thingy being made as well i think. not sure when or if we will get that separate. or if will be combined with the pathfinding

 

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:

They won't have profiles and they won't cause green dots. They may or may not have names above their heads.

My point is as I said, I want to dance with real people and if I have to weave my way through twenty robots to find a real person I would not be happy.  And no matter how easy it might be to recognize a Robot, I just don't want to be surrounded by them.  Other people may not mind but I will.  I know that's a personal choice, but until we see it how it is implemented it is hard to make a judgement.

My desire in my SL is to interact with real people.

i'm  just saying we won't be so easily fooled to land in those places that have bots in them..so if green dots are showing up on the map or mini map then maybe they are people there..

bots with accounts had us landing in places we thought were people populated..that won't work with this technology because we won't be able to see them anywhere but up close and rezzed or rezzing..

i don't want a world of fake people either..
but it would be cool to be hanging out and a deer run passed or stop and get all playful  with another deer
..

i'm not looking at what the scammers are going to do with this..i want to see what the creators are going to do with this..

screw the scammers..i can sort them out fast..

give me that cool fantasy forest that has been stuck in your imagination because you didn't have the tools until now to really create it the way you wanted..that's what i want in my sl..something cool hehehe

we are probably in some way going to get someone that figures out scams for it..as long as we get the good side of the deal as well..

and hopefully it is good enough that it starts to attract people to the grid..

sorry but i just can't let myself fall into the negative yet..i still like having hopes for better things..and if they don't happen and SL dies.i doubt i'll be remembering all the bad times i had..i'll probably have some really rosey colored sunglasses about my times here hehehe

at least i hope i do lol

Absolutely yes on things like the deer running through the forest.

There is great potential here.

More realistic fish swimming in the waters of SL.

Better birds in the sky.

As long as people are applying their imagination could be awesome.

It is something if done right can be a real boon.

 

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Ann Otoole wrote:

I.e.; rodvik let out a glimpse of stuff. Now he has to immediately publish exactly what he meant so people can make their decisions. Otherwise the rumor mill will cause even more attrition.

Rumor mills cause fools and the paranoid to go nuts regardless of what is said or how many details are put in.

 

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Ceera Murakami wrote:

"...since we deployed Mesh earlier this year, we’ve seen more than a 16 percent adoption rate."

Can anyone define what in the h*** this means?
  • 16% have gone through the process to be certified to upload Mesh? (Maybe, but a not very valid stat.)
  • Only 16% are using a mesh-capable Viewer? (Comical spin, if true, but I doubt it.)
  • 16% have purchased at least one Mesh item on SLM? (I really doubt that)
  • 16% have at least one Mesh item in Inventory? (How would they even determine that?)

This sounds like a statistic pulled out of his... PR folder... with no basis in reality.


Since there are no longer any viewers that can't view mesh, unless you're on official v 1.2.3 from 2009... I doubt its that.

So I'd wager its number of people who have rezzed / attached a mesh item - something they could easily track.

 

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Qie Niangao wrote:


Deltango Vale wrote:

"For landowners, existing land tier pricing will not go up in 2012."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Tier price will not go up? Dude (I have always wanted to use that expression), tier needs to go DOWN and FAST! The mainland is dead, dead, dead. People are abandoning all over the place. Hell, I will be abandoning soon. Estate land has been declining for 18 months. Tier won't go up? Gods, it should have come down a year ago. [...]

Yeah, I've seen some dramatically worse conditions on the Mainland in just the past month or two, so I, too, have come around to the conclusion that a significant tier decrease is the only hope of salvaging the critical mass that is SL's main advantage over the OpenSim projects.

You can cut tier all you want, but until you shut off Marketplace, land will not recover, and thusly, SL will not recover.

 

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yes

i got heaps of hours in on that game. like over 3000 l$ worth of time now lol. most of that i got when was in beta. not played much since it open to newbie basic accounts. they need the little l$ prizes more than i do

i was test everything i could tho just to see how it all works really

the realms tools quite cool i think in principle. ppl wil be able to make all kinds of interesting stuff with them not just games, like the autohuds and portals be used quite alot in shopping sims i think. stuff like that

the no permissions feels a bit weird tho. i probly never be comfortable about it either really. other ppl maybe be ok about it tho.

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Perrie you just need some TLC  hehehehe then you will feel better hehehe *winks*

 

Uh-huh reindeer, presents, happiness (yeah right, check it out...)
Giddiup, giddiup, giddiup and away we go
In winter wonderland
Off we ride in the snow (ho ho ho)
With the Left everthing is grand
Sleigh ride if you like me baby
Don't be scared
Take my hand
T to the Left Eye C if you can take a glide
Giddiup the guts and step on up
So we can sleigh ride

 

 

Um jingle bells, Batman smells
Robin laid a... (yeah right)
Up, up and away
If we're flyin in the sleigh
Home alone Christmas Eve
Make-believe it's time to play
So let's flow on this snow with a sack on my back
Cause Santa's tryin to mack in his Cadillac
Ridin' and a ridin'
But when it gets to decidin'
He's a slippin' and a slidin' in his own sleigh ride

A merry little Christmas
Oh yeah, hey yeah
A merry little Christmas
Oohh oohh

 

 

 

 

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

You can cut tier all you want, but until you shut off Marketplace, land will not recover, and thusly, SL will not recover.

As much as I'd love to see Marketplace closed, or at least unified with in-world commerce in such a way that there's some renewed motivation to keep in-world stores, I don't think it's a logical necessity in order for SL to recover.  If it were much cheaper to own or rent land, it might cause more folks to do that, get sucked into the joys of terraforming or something, and be proud SL landowners forevermore, happily spending L$s on patio furniture and sex toys.

Totally different topic: the Linden Realms tools.  What they're using in Linden Realms is somewhat more than merely overriding permissions for things we can do already.  Most intriguing to me are the uninventoried attachments (the HUD and whatever they call that glowy bubble that surrounds the avatar on some of the quests).  They reside in the sim, are owned (and can be modified) by the agent to whom they're attached, but aren't in that agent's inventory at all.

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Phil Deakins wrote:


Alazarin Mondrian wrote:

Something needs to be done to mop up the surplus and abandoned acreage on the mainland.

Why?

It's a serious question.

Short answer: because the relavive price of tier has tripled since 2006.

Long answer:

In September 2006, Facebook, a cleverly designed bulletin board for ivy-league university students, allowed anyone over the age of 13 to register for an account. In November 2006, Nvidia launched its GeForce Series 8 graphics cards. Also in November, Sony released PlayStation 3; Nintendo released the Wii. The iPhone had not even been announced; it would not be released until June 2007. The first Kindle would not be released until November 2007 (costing US400). The new 2011 Kindle First (a vastly superior product) costs US$200.

And what about Second Life tier? It has stayed the same for five years.

Basically, the performance/price ratio of most consumer electronics products and services has tripled over the past five years. Has the performance/price of Second Life tripled over the past five years? Definitely not. Thus, the RELATIVE PRICE of tier has tripled.

For those who wish to split hairs, yes, there have been some technical improvements in SL, but there have also been some disastrous strategy and policy failures. The two balance out. While technically better, SL is socially worse. Therefore, overall, in general, on average, everything taken together, SL has not improved since 2006.

Short answer rephrased:

Compared to the available universe of consumer electronics, games, hosting services, entertainment and communications, the RELATIVE PRICE of tier has TRIPLED since 2006.

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The relative price of tier hasn't changed at all. The idea of comparing tier with other types of producs doesn't hold up at all.

But even if it did, I asked you why "Something needs to be done to mop up the surplus and abandoned acreage on the mainland", which was your statement. Your idea that the relative cost of tier has tripled over time isn't anything to do with it. It would be an applicable answer if you'd said that tier costs need to decrease, but that's not what you said.

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"Compared to the available universe of consumer electronics, games, hosting services, entertainment and communications, the RELATIVE PRICE of tier has TRIPLED since 2006."

------------------------------------------------------------

What does this have to do with land? In 2007-2008, Linden Lab pumped out vast quantities of new mainland without any kind of land-management strategy. Never did the company consider the future. Never did the company consider the tens of thousands of residents who were 'investing' their money, time, enthusiasm, attitude, morale, word-of-mouth advertising and 'good will' when buying that land. As of today, anyone who bought mainland before 2011 has suffered massive losses. What message do you think they will spread out into the world via Facebook, iPhone and Twitter? What happens when new recruits meet the wall of residents marching out of SL with horror stories about land ownership in SL? I'll tell you what happens. Joe says to Fred, "Don't buy land in SL, the tier is outrageous. Buy land in an Opensim at a fraction of the price then play for free in SL." And this is exactly what people are doing. They keep their SL accounts for socializing, but they take their date to an island in another world.

Yes, SLM has undermined commercial land to some extent, but nowhere near as much as the skyrocketing price of tier on top of a massive oversupply of land.

How do we know there is an oversupply of land? Easy, economics 101. The quantity of estate land is variable. As demand falls, estate sims are abandoned and removed from the grid. The supply of mainland is fixed. It cannot be removed from the grid. Therefore as demand falls, the price collapses - which is precisely what happened. The quantity of estates has been falling for 18 months. The price of mainland has collapsed. Result: tens of thousands of unhappy residents.

And Linden Lab reassures us that tier won't go up in 2012. Well, here is the story: in 2012, for the same price as a sim, former residents will be buying their own personal satellites in space - with onboard spa and tennis court - while watching free videos on Facebook while talking to their friends on Twitter while playing any number of free games while enjoying the life of kings for the same money they used to pay for tier on Second Life. That is the future unless Linden Lab cuts tier back down to 2006 levels.

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SL is a gaming platform. It's whole design is almost exactly the same as any openended gaming platform. The only real difference is how everything is streamed, and that the SL engine, does not handle things like "pathfinding". There are many other things that it does not handle, which we would all need to create ourselves using SL's scripting. Difficult, but not impossible. Well, maybe it kind of is, as we've not had anything close to what is in many gaming platforms.

Ok, I'm not a gaming guru and I don't know crap about code, but I have spent extensive time in gaming MODs, modding, creating, and trading MODs. My favorite was the CryEngine, of course. When I found SL, it was like looking at the CryEngine Editor but seeing avatars roaming around, that you did not program, lol. Terraforming is almost exactly the same.

So, last year, I decided that I needed to make more game type of stuff, and it all seemed like perfect timing. Plus, mesh was announced and I knew how important mesh would be to create a game that was fun, exciting, and data efficient. Most games are made data efficient, but in SL it is 1000 times more important because every piece of information is either streamed to the user or to a server. This data can become quite incredible, very quickly.

Like I said tho, SL is no different than any gaming platform, we just have to make all the triggers ourselves. Many of these things are used all the time in SL, and way overused. Sitting on something is 1 of them and built in. What you don't usually see is a sim completely boobie tramped with different kinds of triggers everywhere, initiating things to happen. It's not very hard, but you just don't really see people do things in this way, other than some text to chat things or sensors to record things. Maybe because most people that create MODs are not likely to try to do the same in SL. All the stuff is there tho, it just needs to be coded. Now, if LL is going to create some of that stuff for us, and give us more control like we'd normally have on a game platform, that's cool with me.

The bottom line is, SL can be much more than any of those gaming platforms can ever be. Why? Because SL is not just a gaming platform and has many more aspects than any of those other games. It's the gaming side that it lacks. Ask any creator that has developed a working complexed game. It takes hundreds of hours just to come up with a full working concept, and then 10 times that effort to get it working good and easy to use. Not many people in SL have that kind of time to gamble on a year or 2's worth of fulltime work. LL doing some of this for us, is truely needed, and I can't wait to see what every1 creates.

LL should really think of a different kind of sim tho. Sims specifically for gaming. Meaning all that data that would normally goto some outside server, goes to the server you are actually on, and it holds and records all the data for the game. It'd be cool if these sims were twice as large, lol.

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I'm going to have to disagree, Medhue.  Respectfully of course. :)  SL was not conceived as a gaming platform.  It was conceived as a 3D animated alternative to web browsers.  I worked for a large networking company that invested in SL during the corporate push when everything was new and shiny and interesting.  They didn't dump that money into SL because they thought is was a cool gaming platform.

Now where things have evolved may define SL today as a gaming platform.  The corporate wave collasped and I'm sure we could start a whole new thread as to why, but I don't want to be the one to derail my own thread. :smileywink:  In any case I kinda wish the original concepts would have work out.   And maybe some day they will!

And thanks to all who have contributed to this discussion so far!

--Cinn

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