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So When Is LL gonna Start Making People HAve Payment Info Used To Sell On The MP??

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Mayalily wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:


Mayalily wrote:


Solar Legion wrote:

I myself am a customer and a former content creator.

I started out when the Marketplace was still the SLX.

I did not even have PIOF status, let alone PIU. 

I do not presume to limit who can and cannot post up their wares on the Marketplace.

You
, have no right to even
suggest
such a move by Linden Lab. 

Content theft in Second Life is as old as the prgram itself - do as Peggy has said and use the proper channels.

Or: Cancel your account and make your own grid, where you can control who gets to put their wares up and who does not.

It's a shame your friend had her content ripped: It happens every day.

Now, guess what sunshine? Not everyone HAS payment information to put
on file
, let alone
use.
Not everyone is willing to trust Linden Lab with that information either.

Such people would be locked out of putting their wares up on the Marketplace if Linden Lab thought like you (and thankfully, they don't). Your "right" to a secure market
ends
where
their
right to withold their payment information begind.

Care to guess which right trumps the other? 

Okay, you're not willing to trust LL with payment info, yet you expect consumer's to trust you and LL with their money when they purchase.

The onus is on LL and the creator's to make some sort of trustworthy and transparent marketplace both on website AND inworld as there are many of the same items inworld as I stated earlier in this thread. 

I think with SOPA looming, it's time for seller's to have a verified seller's account before they are even able to sell.

SL is a business with real money being transferred, and you except buyer's to just except the "buyer beware" idea?  0.o

And if you are too young to have a business checking account, why should I want to deal with underage teenage seller's trying to sell in an adult business world?

 

i remember back when me and my bf played UT..if we wanted to be able to use the forums for  UT that we had to use our email from our ISP..

i don't think people can lie about at least their location if they are using an ISP email..

i'm not sure if there are a lot of work arounds that someone could do or not with that..but it may be something they could use on the market place..

you can't really lie to your isp since they kind of know who you are already hehehehe

That doesn't help us if we have items taken out of our inventory that we paid for.  The way the rules are now, it helps the seller but punishes the buyers. 

And Ceka, yes you were rambling quite a bit and not reading my posts yesterday.  I said DON'T put logos on the clothing themselves.  I said put logos were people cannot see them, such as include underwear, baldcaps, etc.  And then the creator's should state that yes all my items come with my original logoed underwear/baldcap, and were registered and copyrighted on this date, along with none of my items are full perm.

However, what I'm finding in this thread is that people are living in their own little me world and not listening to consumer's.  I give up. 

Anyways the whole thing about protecting the customer is to have legit accounts that would not steal or bot other content correct?

this is why i mentioned maybe using an Internet Service Provider Email..accounts that do not want to be found after they do theft or griefing or things where they are throw away accounts..they would never use their ISP email to create an account..

make them have to use an ISP email account to be able to do business on the market place or let alone even have an account in second life..

they use fake information and things like yahoo and google and hotmail throw away accounts..they would never use the email tied right to their internet service provider for that kind of thing..

if LL did something like that it would probably lower those chances of throw away accounts.. hence lowering the risk of dealing with stolen content on the market..

it's just an idea..not something full proof..can't blame a girl for trying lol

and also i believe i said i was sorry if i was rambling  in my response to your post..if you feel that was an invitation to insult me by calling me a meme girl..you best check yourself.. i don't take kindly to sucker punches..

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Mayalily wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:


Mayalily wrote:


Solar Legion wrote:

I myself am a customer and a former content creator.

I started out when the Marketplace was still the SLX.

I did not even have PIOF status, let alone PIU. 

I do not presume to limit who can and cannot post up their wares on the Marketplace.

You
, have no right to even
suggest
such a move by Linden Lab. 

Content theft in Second Life is as old as the prgram itself - do as Peggy has said and use the proper channels.

Or: Cancel your account and make your own grid, where you can control who gets to put their wares up and who does not.

It's a shame your friend had her content ripped: It happens every day.

Now, guess what sunshine? Not everyone HAS payment information to put
on file
, let alone
use.
Not everyone is willing to trust Linden Lab with that information either.

Such people would be locked out of putting their wares up on the Marketplace if Linden Lab thought like you (and thankfully, they don't). Your "right" to a secure market
ends
where
their
right to withold their payment information begind.

Care to guess which right trumps the other? 

Okay, you're not willing to trust LL with payment info, yet you expect consumer's to trust you and LL with their money when they purchase.

The onus is on LL and the creator's to make some sort of trustworthy and transparent marketplace both on website AND inworld as there are many of the same items inworld as I stated earlier in this thread. 

I think with SOPA looming, it's time for seller's to have a verified seller's account before they are even able to sell.

SL is a business with real money being transferred, and you except buyer's to just except the "buyer beware" idea?  0.o

And if you are too young to have a business checking account, why should I want to deal with underage teenage seller's trying to sell in an adult business world?

 

i remember back when me and my bf played UT..if we wanted to be able to use the forums for  UT that we had to use our email from our ISP..

i don't think people can lie about at least their location if they are using an ISP email..

i'm not sure if there are a lot of work arounds that someone could do or not with that..but it may be something they could use on the market place..

you can't really lie to your isp since they kind of know who you are already hehehehe

That doesn't help us if we have items taken out of our inventory that we paid for.  The way the rules are now, it helps the seller but punishes the buyers. 

And Ceka, yes you were rambling quite a bit and not reading my posts yesterday.  I said DON'T put logos on the clothing themselves.  I said put logos were people cannot see them, such as include underwear, baldcaps, etc.  And then the creator's should state that yes all my items come with my original logoed underwear/baldcap, and were registered and copyrighted on this date, along with none of my items are full perm.

However, what I'm finding in this thread is that people are living in their own little me world and not listening to consumer's.  I give up. 

Anyways the whole thing about protecting the customer is to have legit accounts that would not steal or bot other content correct?

this is why i mentioned maybe using an Internet Service Provider Email..accounts that do not want to be found after they do theft or griefing or things where they are throw away accounts..they would never use their ISP email to create an account..

make them have to use an ISP email account to be able to do business on the market place or let alone even have an account in second life..

they use fake information and things like yahoo and google and hotmail throw away accounts..they would never use the email tied right to their internet service provider for that kind of thing..

if LL did something like that it would probably lower those chances of throw away accounts.. hence lowering the risk of dealing with stolen content on the market..

it's just an idea..not something full proof..can't blame a girl for trying lol

and also i believe i said i was sorry if i was rambling  in my response to your post..if you feel that was an invitation to insult me by calling me a meme girl..you best check yourself.. i don't take kindly to sucker punches..

No, it wasn't an invitation to insult you, but you were rambling all over the place and sounded like you drank a bunch of egg nog, and then replied something like "oh, logo's are cool on sunglasses"... when I never even suggested putting any logos on anything on the outside. Don't you know underwear and baldcaps are not something usually seen, nor do they even have to be worn, but could be just included in each folder, as I WROTE, but felt you didn't even read.  You said you were so tired, but if you are that tired why are you debating when it's obvious you are not even reading?  I decided not to read your posts, Ceka, as they were completely disjointed and all over the place, and then the answers had nothing to do with what I wrote.

As far as seller's having to use their email from their ISP, that is a good start.  Maybe. 

However, I don't see how seller's can expect us to trust them when they want to hide.  I had been thinking the same thing the other poster wrote.  Also, with Paypal you can transfer the money out right away and you simply get another checking account that is just for Paypal and your business.  What's the big deal about this?  You can't get a little small bank account?  This is what I'm wondering about some of these poster's who respond.  Or you can't get a small credit card with say a $200 dollar limit?  And if you seller's don't trust LL with their money, why should purchaser's?

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Mayalily wrote:


No, it wasn't an invitation to insult you, but you were rambling all over the place and sounded like you drank a bunch of egg nog, and then replied something like "oh, logo's are cool on sunglasses"... when I never even suggested putting any logos on anything on the outside. Don't you know underwear and baldcaps are not something usually seen, nor do they even have to be worn, but could be just included in each folder, as I WROTE, but felt you didn't even read.  You said you were so tired, but if you are that tired why are you debating when it's obvious you are not even reading?  I decided not to read your posts, Ceka, as they were completely disjointed and all over the place, and then the answers had nothing to do with what I wrote.

As far as seller's having to use their email from their ISP, that is a good start.  Maybe. 

However, I don't see how seller's can expect us to trust them when they want to hide.  I had been thinking the same thing the other poster wrote.  Also, with Paypal you can transfer the money out right away and you simply get another checking account that is just for Paypal and your business.  What's the big deal about this?  You can't get a little small bank account?  This is what I'm wondering about some of these poster's who respond.  Or you can't get a small credit card with say a $200 dollar limit?  And if you seller's don't trust LL with their money, why should purchaser's?

when i make content i make it for me not anyone else..not unless they ask me for it..mostly custom work which i am done with now days..

i am just a customer like you are..

myself i am not gonna depend on them watching out for me..i'm gonna watch out for myself..

since i came here in 2006 not one piece of botted stolen content has entered my inventory..the reason for that is i have always been an aware smart shopper..i knew the net was not a safe place when i came into this world..

and it was easy to see that SL was a haven for everything ..even the bad guys..

want a quick answer for your logo fix?

botted items are stolen by mostly a special viewer..it means  they swoop in with a viewer and can take the whole store or everything in the sim with one click..

when they steal that outfit..they will be stealing that logo underwear  or bald cap as well and all the note cards in the vender and even the vender if they choose..

they can walk up to any avatar and steal your whole look and every item you are wearing..shape,skin,hair ect..

let me show you something that will give you a better idea of exactly how they steal this stuff..then you may have a better understanding of just how content theft will not be going away..NPIOF or PIOF or PIU..it doesn't matter..

just pay attention to what this guy does..don't worry about their mission the guy is on..it's old news..just look at what he does and how easy it is for these guys to get what they want..you will see how putting anything on a prim will not be an indicator of original content that would detour these guys because they can take that indicator as well and still put it in the item and up for sale..

Click this for bot viewer information

 

 

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Mayalily wrote:


No, it wasn't an invitation to insult you, but you were rambling all over the place and sounded like you drank a bunch of egg nog, and then replied something like "oh, logo's are cool on sunglasses"... when I never even suggested putting any logos on anything on the outside. Don't you know underwear and baldcaps are not something usually seen, nor do they even have to be worn, but could be just included in each folder, as I WROTE, but felt you didn't even read.  You said you were so tired, but if you are that tired why are you debating when it's obvious you are not even reading?  I decided not to read your posts, Ceka, as they were completely disjointed and all over the place, and then the answers had nothing to do with what I wrote.

As far as seller's having to use their email from their ISP, that is a good start.  Maybe. 

However, I don't see how seller's can expect us to trust them when they want to hide.  I had been thinking the same thing the other poster wrote.  Also, with Paypal you can transfer the money out right away and you simply get another checking account that is just for Paypal and your business.  What's the big deal about this?  You can't get a little small bank account?  This is what I'm wondering about some of these poster's who respond.  Or you can't get a small credit card with say a $200 dollar limit?  And if you seller's don't trust LL with their money, why should purchaser's?

when i make content i make it for me not anyone else..not unless they ask me for it..mostly custom work which i am done with now days..

i am just a customer like you are..

myself i am not gonna depend on them watching out for me..i'm gonna watch out for myself..

since i came here in 2006 not one piece of botted stolen content has entered my inventory..the reason for that is i have always been an aware smart shopper..i knew the net was not a safe place when i came into this world..

and it was easy to see that SL was a haven for everything ..even the bad guys..

want a quick answer for your logo fix?

botted items are stolen by mostly a special viewer..it means  they swoop in with a viewer and can take the whole store or everything in the sim with one click..

when they steal that outfit..they will be stealing that logo underwear  or bald cap as well and all the note cards in the vender and even the vender if they choose..

they can walk up to any avatar and steal your whole look and every item you are wearing..shape,skin,hair ect..

let me show you something that will give you a better idea of exactly how they steal this stuff..then you may have a better understanding of just how content theft will not be going away..NPIOF or PIOF or PIU..it doesn't matter..

just pay attention to what this guy does..don't worry about their mission the guy is on..it's old news..just look at what he does and how easy it is for these guys to get what they want..you will see how putting anything on a prim will not be an indicator of original content that would detour these guys because they can take that indicator as well and still put it in the item and up for sale..

 

 

Yeah, but if seller's use MP, you couldn't have two Gothic Catz stores.  They could copybot for themselves, but could they resell the Gothic Catz logoed items on MP if there already is a Gothic Catz store on MP?  You are probably thinking well they could just change the logo on the underwear or the baldcap.  That maybe true.  However, still my first point is valid that seller's put right on their picture their username, date it was created, and state not a full perm item.  Seller's are going to need to find some kind of way to copyright their items and not on a hardrive that could crash.

Also, I still say ALL residents should be verified.  If seller's don't trust LL with a small business account they could very easily set up, my point still stands that why should a customer? 

Anyhow, here is a link on how to copyright original internet created items for sell on the internet.  If you don't want to open my link, simply type in your Google search bar "how to copyright original internet creations" and creator's should find some answers.  And the link does mention logos, so I am a lot smarter than people give me credit for.  Heck, I thought of the logos myself before I just checked for links on copyrighting internet creations.  Oh, thanks, Mayalily for giving us good ideas we completely ignore.  Also, if it needs a logo, creator's can make the logo go transparent like a chim does for instance. 

http://www.ehow.com/how_6011997_properly-copyright-artwork-internet.html?ref=Track2&utm_source=ask

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No - she does not have the right to suggest that people be FORCED into giving payment information to a company they may not trust.

PayPal is not a viable option for may either - and kindly do not try to tell me otherwise.

Here's a bit of reality for you: Linden Lab has been hacked three times now. User's accounts are also hacked quite regularly. Not as regularly as MMOs which force payment ... but regularly enough.

Sorry - forcing everyone to have payment information of any kind is not on the menu.

Like I said earlier - want that level of control? Make your own Grid. 

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Note I said "former".

Further, if you look up my in world profile, you'll see that I have payment information and that it has been used. Being that I live in the United States, I did what anyone else who does not trust an online system would do: I used a pre-paid card.

Guess what cupcake? Requiring PIU isn't going to solve a single thing. Know why? All it takes is a pre-paid card of the right type. Readily available at any store.

Oooh! Some security measure!

SOPA? Don't make me laugh! That monstrosity cooked up by paranoid delusionals won't pass.

If it does, you can expect quite a few more riots .... and you can expect companies like Microsoft to suddenly vanish overseas.

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Your thoughts concerning secondary accounts and your logic concerning trust show just how naive you truly are.

I am done with you until you've experienced a bit more of the real world. 

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Solar...why so rude in your posts, really  necessary? and who are you to say that  she's not entitled to make suggestions or to give her opinion? she is not being disrespectful to anyone. We are discussing require payment info only for SELLERS (not for all the residents). I can understand that some people want to make $ hidden in the anonymity, even seems that for some people  this is a "right". IMO customers who spend real $ should know that they are giving their money to sellers that at least are identified in some way, like in RL. Especially when LL do not take any responsibility about problems that may arise.

 The point to me is: you want to enjoy SL, make friends, buy stuff, explore...? great, not PIOF required. You want benefit of SL and make $? identify yourself. This would make SL market a bit more safe for both parts, merchants and customers.

And this is a real question (not sarcasm) because i really don't know it...in what country is impossible to get a payment method required by LL (paypal, credit card...) ??

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

let me show you something that will give you a better idea of exactly how they steal this stuff..then you may have a better understanding of just how content theft will not be going away..NPIOF or PIOF or PIU..it doesn't matter..

just pay attention to what this guy does..don't worry about their mission the guy is on..it's old news..just look at what he does and how easy it is for these guys to get what they want..you will see how putting anything on a prim will not be an indicator of original content that would detour these guys because they can take that indicator as well and still put it in the item and up for sale..

 

 

lol :D and here I thought I wasn't going to have to pay for anything ever again! hahahahahah!

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Who am I? I am someone who understands where her "rights" end and everyone else's begin, unlike you.

Do you want to entrust anything related to your finances to a company that has been hacked three times now? How about a company where their customers regularly have their accounts hacked into?

No other gaming/entertainment comany allows you to directly dump your real money into their service - aside from Turbine. No other gaming/entertainment company allows you to cash that same money back OUT.

I'm not here to make money - I grew up long ago and realized that deriving an income from SL on any level was quite silly.

Do your homework yourself - Better yet, try looking through the old archives.

I've been here long enough to know that there are users unable to get what Linden Lab wants as payment information. I have also been here long enough to know that the people clamouring for this sort of utter drek are the ones that have never had to deal with bad credit, hacked accounts (no matter the strength of their password) or any other sort of financial hardship.

They can all go off and make their own bloody grid.

And do keep to the facts - several in this thread have brought forth requiring payment information for everyone.

You have no right to demand or "suggest" that anyone put their financial information (whatever that may be) in any sort of danger whatsoever.

And that is all I am saying on it - to you and to the others who presume to put others' security above their own.

Welcome to Second Life - if you have a problem "buying from unknown sellers" - get out.

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Solar Legion wrote:

"Do
you
want to entrust
anything
related to
your
finances to a company that has been hacked three times now? How about a company where their customers regularly have their accounts hacked into?"

"I'm not here to make money - I grew up long ago and realized that deriving an income from SL on any level was quite silly."

 

"Accounts regularly hacked into SL"? You should be careful about giving this kind of misleading information in a LL oficial forum, also could you tell us, when the payment information used by a resident has been truly compromised. And i guess that your vision about how silly is get an income from SL is just due the fustration of not getting it. All done for me here... 

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I believe the first hack  was on September 6, 2006 if i remember right..

I don't recall any after that..but i wasn't an avid reader of the blogs back then..i just remember that one sticking out in my mind..

as far as account hacks..myself i don't know how frequent they are but they do happen..even my information was compromised one time ..but i was fortunate enough to catch it before they had gotten all my information and could recover my email and  change my password and email to a new one..they had already started to change the email in my account to another but hadn't changed the password yet..which i was like..omg they had to just be here like minutes ago hehehehe

i spent the next few days also working on recovering my old email account back to get any information out of that as well..

as i said i don't know how frequent it is but it happens ..i've also had friends who have lost a good amount of money because of hacks..

to this day i have no idea how they had gotten into my account..that information is not ever written down or ever given away..it's in my head and  that is where it has always stayed lol

 

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Solar Legion wrote:

Who am I? I am someone who understands where her "rights" end and everyone else's 
begin
, unlike you.

Do
you
want to entrust
anything
related to
your
finances to a company that has been hacked three times now? How about a company where their customers regularly have their accounts hacked into?

No other gaming/entertainment comany allows you to directly dump your real money into their service - aside from Turbine.
No other gaming/entertainment company allows you to cash that same money back OUT.

I'm not here to make money - I grew up long ago and realized that deriving an income from SL on any level was quite silly.

Do your homework yourself - Better yet, try looking through the old archives.

I've been here long enough to know that there are users unable to get what Linden Lab wants as payment information. I have also been here long enough to know that the people clamouring for this sort of utter
drek
are the ones that have
never
had to deal with bad credit, hacked accounts (no matter the strength of their password) or any other sort of financial hardship.

They can all go off and make their own bloody grid.

And do keep to the facts - several in this thread have brought forth requiring payment information for
everyone
.

You have
no
right to demand or "suggest" that
anyone
put their financial information (whatever that may be) in any sort of danger whatsoever.

And that is all I am saying on it - to you and to the others who presume to put others' security above their own.

Welcome to Second Life - if you have a problem "buying from unknown sellers" -
get out.

There is no danger if an account is hacked as credit cards and Paypal take care of that with buyer protection plans.  The credit card company may lose money, but the hackee won't.   Also, on Paypal you don't put your main household account bank on there, you open a very small business account and keep the balance like $1.00 just to keep the account open.  If there is no balance on your bank excpet an amount like one dollar, what are they going to hack -- some lindens?  Well, that could happen to everyone, so what is the difference?  You are more protected with a credit card or Paypal.  If someone hacks into a credit card and charges upteem hundreds of dollars worth of stuff on SL, there IS A protection plan for that and no money of anyone's is lost except to the credit card company.  Credit cards are far better for online use BECAUSE they have that protection.  My pattern and budget stays regular on SL every single month, so credit card companies and Paypal can see that right away if suddenly hundreds of dollars were charged, not to mention it's the safest way to do business on the internet.  You simply transfer your money out of Paypal the day it becomes available for transfer, but simply leave $1.00 in there just to keep the bank used on your Paypal open.  Banks NOT through Paypal do not care unless it's caught like perhaps within a day or two.  I've mentioned Paypal because at least the consumer's is protected and able to file a claim up to 45 days to retrieve their stolen monies back or if merchandise got taken out of their inventory that they paid for.  ETA:  Just looked up some things on Paypal, and Paypal user's can have up to 60 days to file a claim against items that we paid for that could suddenly go missing from our inventory. 

So your point is invalid, especially since credit cards are the safest way to protect against hacking and fraud.

And, yes, I do believe that everyone should be age verified, full name, address, phone number, driver's license, the whole nine yards as this is a business that does exchange very real money.  So, I say that and that's my feeling about it.  Is my feeling and thinking actually going to hurt you?  No, it isn't.  You are responsible for your reactions or over-reactions to another's POV on this subject. 

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There should be absolutely no need whatsoever for us to have payment information on all our avatars, it's a very silly situation that should be rectified. My alts can't upload Mesh, yet i've passed the Mesh test and Linden Lab have all my details. Linden Lab know exactly whom my alts are, I got my alts verified for accessing adult land via a support ticket. The multiple avatars needing the same information added is a very silly situation.

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Mayalily wrote:

There is no danger if an account is hacked as credit cards and Paypal take care of that with buyer protection plans.  The credit card company may lose money, but the hackee won't. 


 

So then what is you worry as a consumer on SL????? 

The next time LL removes an item from your inventory because it was stolen just file a claim with Paypal or your Credit Card Company and get your money back!  And then use your recovered funds to buy the item from the legitimate source.

But really your posts show a lack of understanding of how payment protection plans work overall and who gets hurt in the system.  IfCredit Card Protection actually worked the way that you think it works then Linden Lab would set it up because they have a vested interest in protecting their money.  But it doesn't.  And given the difficulties in verifying non U.S. accounts many legitimate non U.S. creators could find themselves shut out of the Market Place.

You think that Linden Lab is intentionally trying to make it difficult for non U.S. folks to arrange for ways to buy Linden Dollars, Pay tier, verify, etc?  While we may feel that Linden Lab does some very dumb things from time to time they are not that stupid.  IT IS NOT AS SIMPLE AS YOU THINK.

And to reiterate what I said above, if your concern is being protected as a consumer, and if the system works the way that you think it works, then the next time Linden Lab removes an item from your inventory because it was stolen, file a claim with your financial institution and then go and purchase the item from the legitimate seller with your retrieved funds.

 

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You do not live in the real world, where such "protections" mean nothing at all.

Your entire train of thought is invalid.

I am done with you as well.

Go get some real life experience before shooting your fingers off. 

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And to clarify my post ...

Go ahead, be utterly careless with your financial information ... Then try to get your life back on track. I'll personally be laughing at you while your credit is utterly ruined, the banks laugh at you and refuse to cooperate, forcing you to get a lawyer you cannot afford.

I wish you luck in your make believe utopia. 

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Mayalily wrote:

There is no danger if an account is hacked as credit cards and Paypal take care of that with buyer protection plans.  The credit card company may lose money, but the hackee won't. 


 

So then what is you worry as a consumer on SL????? 

The next time LL removes an item from your inventory because it was stolen just file a claim with Paypal or your Credit Card Company and get your money back!  And then use your recovered funds to buy the item from the legitimate source.

But really your posts show a lack of understanding of how payment protection plans work overall and who gets hurt in the system.  IfCredit Card Protection actually worked the way that you think it works then Linden Lab would set it up because they have a vested interest in protecting their money.  But it doesn't.  And given the difficulties in verifying non U.S. accounts many legitimate non U.S. creators could find themselves shut out of the Market Place.

You think that Linden Lab is intentionally trying to make it difficult for non U.S. folks to arrange for ways to buy Linden Dollars, Pay tier, verify, etc?  While we may feel that Linden Lab does some very dumb things from time to time they are not that stupid.  IT IS NOT AS SIMPLE AS YOU THINK.

And to reiterate what I said above,
if your concern is being protected as a consumer
, and if the system works the way that you think it works, then the next time Linden Lab removes an item from your inventory because it was stolen, file a claim with your financial institution and then go and purchase the item from the legitimate seller with your retrieved funds.

 

You can't now under the TOS.  The TOS here

 

4.4 If properly notified, Linden Lab responds to complaints that User Content infringes another's intellectual property.

Intellectual property infringement on the Service is a violation of this Terms of Service, and you agree not to engage in such infringement. It is our policy to respond to notices of alleged copyright infringement that comply with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and to terminate the accounts of repeat infringers in appropriate circumstances. We operate an intellectual property complaint process for complaints that User Content infringes another's intellectual property, the details of which are available in our Intellectual Property Policy. Linden Lab reserves the right to disable, delete or terminate, without notice, any user's Content or access to the Service if that user is determined by Linden Lab to infringe or repeatedly infringe.

 

______

Notice the word ANY, I suppose that means those who just merely shop.  Also, my Paypal point has been ungoing through the thread in that SL would be better if Second Life were all Paypal as unsuspecting buyer's could then be protected.

As for solar, your points are pointless, so talk to the hand.  Or as we say here where I live, and I say to Solar.... "whatever". 

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Provide irrefutable proof that NO ONE has EVER had their financial history (and thus their lives) fouled up through Paypal and/or credit cards.

Wait - you cannot.

Instead of pulling your BS, actually go out there and learn a thing or two. 

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"Any" does not mean shopper..

if you read the whole thing you will see they are not referring to shoppers..

they are referring to those that infringe on an others intellectual property..

 

Intellectual property infringement on the Service is a violation of this Terms of Service, and you agree not to engage in such infringement.

It is our policy to respond to notices of alleged copyright infringement that comply with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and to terminate the accounts of repeat infringers in appropriate circumstances.

We operate an intellectual property complaint process for complaints that User Content infringes another's intellectual property, the details of which are available in our Intellectual Property Policy.

Linden Lab reserves the right to disable, delete or terminate, without notice, any user's Content or access to the Service if that user is determined by Linden Lab to infringe or repeatedly infringe.

 

and to make sure we are not going to go round and round  on some technical meaning of the word infringe or what it means..

in·fringe 

v. in·fringed, in·fring·ing, in·fring·es
v.tr.
1. To transgress or exceed the limits of; violate: infringe a contract; infringe a patent.
2. Obsolete To defeat; invalidate.
v.intr.
To encroach on someone or something; engage in trespassing: an increased workload that infringed on his personal life.


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Mayalily wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


Mayalily wrote:

There is no danger if an account is hacked as credit cards and Paypal take care of that with buyer protection plans.  The credit card company may lose money, but the hackee won't. 


 

So then what is you worry as a consumer on SL????? 

The next time LL removes an item from your inventory because it was stolen just file a claim with Paypal or your Credit Card Company and get your money back!  And then use your recovered funds to buy the item from the legitimate source.

But really your posts show a lack of understanding of how payment protection plans work overall and who gets hurt in the system.  IfCredit Card Protection actually worked the way that you think it works then Linden Lab would set it up because they have a vested interest in protecting their money.  But it doesn't.  And given the difficulties in verifying non U.S. accounts many legitimate non U.S. creators could find themselves shut out of the Market Place.

You think that Linden Lab is intentionally trying to make it difficult for non U.S. folks to arrange for ways to buy Linden Dollars, Pay tier, verify, etc?  While we may feel that Linden Lab does some very dumb things from time to time they are not that stupid.  IT IS NOT AS SIMPLE AS YOU THINK.

And to reiterate what I said above,
if your concern is being protected as a consumer
, and if the system works the way that you think it works, then the next time Linden Lab removes an item from your inventory because it was stolen, file a claim with your financial institution and then go and purchase the item from the legitimate seller with your retrieved funds.

 

You can't now under the TOS.  The TOS here

 

4.4 If properly notified, Linden Lab responds to complaints that User Content infringes another's intellectual property.

Intellectual property infringement on the Service is a violation of this Terms of Service, and you agree not to engage in such infringement. It is our policy to respond to notices of alleged copyright infringement that comply with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and to terminate the accounts of repeat infringers in appropriate circumstances. We operate an intellectual property complaint process for complaints that User Content infringes another's intellectual property, the details of which are available in our
. Linden Lab reserves the right to disable, delete or terminate, without notice, any user's Content or access to the Service if that user is determined by Linden Lab to infringe or repeatedly infringe.

 

______

 

 

Notice the word ANY, I suppose that means those who just merely shop.  Also, my Paypal point has been ungoing through the thread in that SL would be better if Second Life were all Paypal as unsuspecting buyer's could then be protected.

As for solar, your points are pointless, so talk to the hand.  Or as we say here where I live, and I say to Solar.... "whatever". 

"You can't now under the TOS.  The TOS here" 

You can't what?  You can't file a claim with your financial institution? 

My son purchased a used cell phone on E bay.  Payed for it via Pay Pal.  When he tried to activate the phone he was informed that the phone had been reported stolen and was unable to activate it.

He reported this both to E Bay and PayPal.  E Bay suspended the sellers account pending investigation and Pay Pal refunded his money.

And as others have pointed out above, despite your misreading of the TOS, there is still nothing in there that stops you from filing a claim with your financial institution.  (Actually, I do know what the possible stopper is but I also know how to avoid that stopper.  But I'll leave that for you to figure out).

 

eta  to correct spelling error

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Mayalily wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


Mayalily wrote:

There is no danger if an account is hacked as credit cards and Paypal take care of that with buyer protection plans.  The credit card company may lose money, but the hackee won't. 


 

So then what is you worry as a consumer on SL????? 

The next time LL removes an item from your inventory because it was stolen just file a claim with Paypal or your Credit Card Company and get your money back!  And then use your recovered funds to buy the item from the legitimate source.

But really your posts show a lack of understanding of how payment protection plans work overall and who gets hurt in the system.  IfCredit Card Protection actually worked the way that you think it works then Linden Lab would set it up because they have a vested interest in protecting their money.  But it doesn't.  And given the difficulties in verifying non U.S. accounts many legitimate non U.S. creators could find themselves shut out of the Market Place.

You think that Linden Lab is intentionally trying to make it difficult for non U.S. folks to arrange for ways to buy Linden Dollars, Pay tier, verify, etc?  While we may feel that Linden Lab does some very dumb things from time to time they are not that stupid.  IT IS NOT AS SIMPLE AS YOU THINK.

And to reiterate what I said above,
if your concern is being protected as a consumer
, and if the system works the way that you think it works, then the next time Linden Lab removes an item from your inventory because it was stolen, file a claim with your financial institution and then go and purchase the item from the legitimate seller with your retrieved funds.

 

You can't now under the TOS.  The TOS here

 

4.4 If properly notified, Linden Lab responds to complaints that User Content infringes another's intellectual property.

Intellectual property infringement on the Service is a violation of this Terms of Service, and you agree not to engage in such infringement. It is our policy to respond to notices of alleged copyright infringement that comply with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and to terminate the accounts of repeat infringers in appropriate circumstances. We operate an intellectual property complaint process for complaints that User Content infringes another's intellectual property, the details of which are available in our
. Linden Lab reserves the right to disable, delete or terminate, without notice, any user's Content or access to the Service if that user is determined by Linden Lab to infringe or repeatedly infringe.

 

______

 

 

Notice the word ANY, I suppose that means those who just merely shop.  Also, my Paypal point has been ungoing through the thread in that SL would be better if Second Life were all Paypal as unsuspecting buyer's could then be protected.

As for solar, your points are pointless, so talk to the hand.  Or as we say here where I live, and I say to Solar.... "whatever". 

"
You can't now under the TOS.  The TOS here" 

You can't what?  You can't file a claim with your financial institution? 

My son purchased a used cell phone on E bay.  Payed for it via Pay Pal.  When he tried to activate the phone he was informed that the phone had been reported stolen and was unable to activate it.

He reported this both to E Bay and PayPal.  E Bay suspended the sellers account pending investigation and Pay Pal refunded his money.

And as others have pointed out above, despite your misreading of the TOS, there is still nothing in there that stops you from filing a claim with your financial institution.  (Actually, I do no what the possible stopper is but I also know how to avoid that stopper.  But I'll leave that for you to figure out).

Yes, but all seller's are Paypal now, and Paypal and eBay have a good policy that protects the purchaser's against this kind of thing... that's what I've been talking about.  See, if SL were all Paypal.. actually, I give up. 

We were earlier talking about as RyOta has suggested putting a buyer beware on Marketplace... remember?... earlier in the thread... I give up.

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he said financial institution...ebay oops i mean pay pal only being one of those..i will trust my bank before i would  Epay pal..

Anyways..

the reason Ebay is all pay pal is not because it is the best or safest..it's because Ebay bought Pay Pal..so now they have those businesses trapped to using pay pal or they can go else where which they can't..wanna play monopoly anyone?

the net has been filled full of horror stories about pay pal and still is to this day long after ebay bought them..

second life residents have their fair share of those stories..this is why you will hear some reluctant users use terms like..pay pal sucks.

i don't get phisched emails for my bank..i get them all the time with scams trying to get my Epay pal..

jeeze i wonder if pay pal has a warning disclaimer about thieves  Oo

i doubt it because those are just so stupid right? it's pay pal..they are so awesome that they don't need one..

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From the LL TOS Section 4

You acknowledge that you will be exposed to various aspects of the Service involving the conduct, Content, and services of users, and that Linden Lab does not control and is not responsible or liable for the quality, safety, legality, truthfulness or accuracy of any such user conduct, User Content, or user services. You acknowledge that Linden Lab does not guarantee the accuracy of information submitted by any user of the Service, nor any identity information about any user. Your interactions with other users and your use and purchase of User Content or user services are entirely at your own risk.

From Section 5 of the LL TOS:

Linden Lab makes no guarantee as to the nature, quality or value of the features of the Service that will be accessible through the use of Linden dollars.

So unless you are paying a merchant directly with your paypal account directly to their paypal account paypal offers no protection to you and LL doesn't have to make it up to you either as you agreed to this when you used SL. 

If you have a VIsa and use it to buy things in RL store, you are protected under whatever protection VIsa offers.  But if you use the visa to  get cash from an ATM and then use the cash in the store, visa offers you no protection.

LL will never allow direct payment to merchants because they make money when you buy lindens and the merchant sells them for RL money.  If they allowed direct payment, then that entire revenue stream would be cut off.

You read things and think they mean what you WANT them to mean not what they actually mean.  The TOS trumps every 'protection" you are alleging that PayPal offers because you agreed that LL has no liability to you in this regard when you created an account here.

Even if LL got complete identifying RL information on every person in SL, and you got ripped off they are not going to give it to you nor are they going to give you the lindens back or give you what you paid for.  So PIOF is useless to you.  You can argue the point until the cows come home, but you have so far not offered one valid reason to require PIOF for anybody other than something you've made up in your own mind and are so desperate to hold onto that you completely ignore the facts. 

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