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So When Is LL gonna Start Making People HAve Payment Info Used To Sell On The MP??

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Mayalily wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:


Mayalily wrote:


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Payment info used is like a lock on a door.  It will stop honest people from entering and some opportunistic thieves will be discouraged, but won't stop anyone from entering the door that really wants to bad enough. 

Anyone can walk to the corner mini mart and buy a prepaid Visa or Mastercard with cash and a fake ID or even no ID.  If you think that's not possible your pretty naive.  If a thief wants to steal and you put this barrier up, that's exactly what will happen or worse, they will steal someone else's credit card and identity. 

Believe it or not there are people in SL that don't have credit cards or other means of payment acceptable to LL so have no PIOF, let alone used. There are also people in SL that don't want to put PIOF because of security issues and people who have no need of PIOF because they earn all the lindens they need by working in world.  The majority of these people are honest.

You basically saying that if you have no PIOF and used, and can't afford an inworld store we are going to penalize you and presume your a thief by not allowing you to sell anything.  All because of a relatively small percentage of people that are thieves.  How is this fair?  Do you refuse to sell to people with no PIOF.  How do you know their lindens aren't stolen?

I think LL thinks more clearly than you do and understands that it would be ineffective discrimination.  RyOta and Peggy are right, consumer education is the answer and content creators are responsible for protecting their own content not LL.

I disagree.  How is it a consumer's fault?  And, how are you going to "educate" consumers as has been stated in this thread when there are new content creator's every day.  How is that a consumer's fault?  I agree with Phoebe.  I believe ALL residents should have payment info on file, just like eBay.  Although some on eBay still try to get away with going against the simple rule that eBay is Paypal only now.  However, that is very easy education on eBay.  IOW, don't buy from the few seller's trying to bypass the Paypal rule and who say "send payment to me".  It's easy for consumers to understand on eBay, but how on Earth would consumers know what is stolen content and what isn't?  How would you educate them unless it worked like eBay ala Paypal only for payment and that the seller is Paypal verified?

where did she say it was the consumers fault?

she was saying that the way to battle the ones that do steal is to educate users that there are stolen products out there and to keep an eye out for them and that they don't buy from those people stealing and selling..and also that the only ones responsible for their content are the owners of that content..

nobody is blaming consumers..that was more a statement to protect them so they don't end up spending money on something that gets taken down from a DMCA..

how do we educate them? RyOta had a good idea about a warning..a warning on each page of the market..

it's our job as users to educate ourselves as well..if we bypass warnings then it's our own fault if we get bit..that goes for all users..creators and content owners and customers ect..

 

 

You can't educate consumer's with a disclaimer like that as customer's have a purchase history and the seller of the stolen goods is responsible and so is the creator for not getting a proper copyright with a copyright office.  If a person creates something, it's their responsibility to get it copyrighted and to fight the abuser in court, not punish innocent bystanders.  Get your creation's copyrighted and than sue whomever is stealing your original creations. 

it's every users own responsability to read the TOS and links leading from it..if a disclaimer is part of that then yes it is their responsability to read it..

i'm not saying blame consumers just like the others were not..but we can't blame anyone else if our account gets banned for holding some content that was stolen and somehow we end up in some strange way getting banned for it..so ya it is everyones responsability to become educated about the platform they use for their own protection..

otherwise don't click agree..

Anyways when it comes to content..we are saying that consumer awareness is just another tool in the battle against theft..not that they are to blame for helping in the  stealing..

the only one responsible for their stuff is the content owner..a creator can be both but not always..

you don't just limit awareness to a disclaimer..you just add it as another tool for awareness..the more ways to inform the public about thieves the merrier..

sitting around not saying a thing won't get it done..and cutting off half the grid from access won't be the answer either..that will just end the grid existence faster..

then everyone can go to eBay with their content that has PIU and sell it to the OS projects..because the economy in SL won't be able to take that kind of a hit..

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:

how do we educate them? RyOta had a good idea about a warning..a warning on each page of the market..

it's our job as users to educate ourselves as well..if we bypass warnings then it's our own fault if we get bit..that goes for all users..creators and content owners and customers ect..

 

 

The problem here is that you are asking the buyers to become experts at product recognition. 

I do marvel all the time that there are some in the Forums who can look at a hair or a skin or an outfit and name the Designer.   But I don't think that they learned that overnight.

So in effect, all this warning would do is serve to scare people.

Let's face it, recognizing stolen content is not easy.  I even saw a Linden kudo an incomplete, and actually wrong answer in a specific situation brought up in Answers about stolen content.  (And yes, I did message the Linden about it).

I wish I knew a specific solution.  I would like to say that verified accounts are the way to go, but look at all the trouble LL has now with getting an effective payment system set up for people outside the U.S.

I agree, it's a big problem.  But can you imagine a real world retailer putting a sign at their entrance saying, "Warning, There Is A Possibility The Gucci Purses We Are Selling Are Counterfeit."  It just wouldn't fly and also sadly it wouldn't stop some people from buying them.

there is not going to be 100% awareness or people that really care enough to stop from buying something because it may be stolen..

we know it can't be stopped..

but information out there is more of a help than no information at all..

nobody is saying that  this store may be selling stolen content...it's saying to keep an eye out for it..that if you happen to come passed it or have purchased it and see that it is stolen ..inform the creator or owner so they can file a DMCA..

there is no real answer to stoping any of it..just making more aware is all..

 

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Mayalily wrote:


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Payment info used is like a lock on a door.  It will stop honest people from entering and some opportunistic thieves will be discouraged, but won't stop anyone from entering the door that really wants to bad enough. 

Anyone can walk to the corner mini mart and buy a prepaid Visa or Mastercard with cash and a fake ID or even no ID.  If you think that's not possible your pretty naive.  If a thief wants to steal and you put this barrier up, that's exactly what will happen or worse, they will steal someone else's credit card and identity. 

Believe it or not there are people in SL that don't have credit cards or other means of payment acceptable to LL so have no PIOF, let alone used. There are also people in SL that don't want to put PIOF because of security issues and people who have no need of PIOF because they earn all the lindens they need by working in world.  The majority of these people are honest.

You basically saying that if you have no PIOF and used, and can't afford an inworld store we are going to penalize you and presume your a thief by not allowing you to sell anything.  All because of a relatively small percentage of people that are thieves.  How is this fair?  Do you refuse to sell to people with no PIOF.  How do you know their lindens aren't stolen?

I think LL thinks more clearly than you do and understands that it would be ineffective discrimination.  RyOta and Peggy are right, consumer education is the answer and content creators are responsible for protecting their own content not LL.

I disagree.  How is it a consumer's fault?  And, how are you going to "educate" consumers as has been stated in this thread when there are new content creator's every day.  How is that a consumer's fault?  I agree with Phoebe.  I believe ALL residents should have payment info on file, just like eBay.  Although some on eBay still try to get away with going against the simple rule that eBay is Paypal only now.  However, that is very easy education on eBay.  IOW, don't buy from the few seller's trying to bypass the Paypal rule and who say "send payment to me".  It's easy for consumers to understand on eBay, but how on Earth would consumers know what is stolen content and what isn't?  How would you educate them unless it worked like eBay ala Paypal only for payment and that the seller is Paypal verified?

I did NOT blame consumers and don't appreciate you saying I did.  Read what I actually wrote.

I only said that more can be done to educate them.  To elaborate more, a disclaimer is not the whole answer,  or even a large part of it, and maybe it only needs to be shown the first time someone buys on the marketplace, not on every page.  First time shoppers on the marketplace may not be aware of the issue at all.  They need to be and also need to be aware of what they should do if they DO run across stolen or misused content.  They need to be educated that  if they think  'its not my problem" and do nothing, how it effects them in the long run with less choice and higher prices.

Just yesterday I was in a store and the owner was selling mesh and sculpt kits intended for builders not resale.  Not only were they selling the kits, but asking three times what the original creator charged.  As a content creator myself I won't tolerate this, so I IM'd the creator and told her about it.  Told her who it was selling the items and where she could go and find them for sale. 

If more people did this more often maybe stolen or misused content wouldn't be as large of a problem. So give people the knowledge and tools they need to help curb it, not take away their own ability to sell content.

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Great, make wild claims about content theft when SOPA becomes law and what will you get.   SL & MP will get arbitrarily shut down without any real evidence needed.   And everyone who lists merchandise on MP will become un-indicted co-conspirators.  

And just to posit an opinion, if there have been DMCA's filed and nothing has been done, perhaps it's because there is no credible evidence of a violation.   Whining and moaning about a friend's content (and I notice it's always a "friend" or someone I know) being stolen in the forums is useless.  The only one who has a legitimate right to complain is the actual creator, not their hordes of friends or customers.  So I wish people would just give it a rest.

Content theft won't matter much when there is no more SL or MP because some unfounded accusation has been made and the Justice Department sticks their nose into it.

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koto Nizna wrote:

I am a content creator in my own right and also a consumer her ein Second life and i am totally against copybotting. How would someone especially a noob know if the certain item is copybotted?

Logic / best practices in who you buy from.

A slick snake oil salesman smells the same in SL as in RL. If something just looks off, avoid it.

Real merchants work to establish themselves as people in SL. You can tell their personality, talk to them, 99.99999% of them have a real world store you can visit that looks developed and not slapped together. Their products will have a consistent style to the packages (even when they try to theme them - you can see the style of the individual in them).

Etc...

A snake oil salesman will come off as a stranger, they're not so heavily developed in SL. You can't tell who their friends are, where they hang out, and so on. Their products look in the packaging like different people made it because different people did...

 

Telling a con in SL is no different from RL.

Common sense goes a long way.

 

**********

The only ToS change I would like to see to help deal with these issues is to let people name and shame on the forums with snapshots.

Publically outting people with a screenshot (make that required for it), would go a long way.

 

Other ideas:

Keeping a public list of past griefers likewise.

Perhaps put a tally on profiles for the number of ARs a person has had against them that the lindens found were legit ARs for anything related to harrassment, griefing, or IP-violations.

A flag on land to auto-ban by Mac address (the unique number assigned to any network card) all addresses that have had a banned account - without telling the land owner the names of accounts it covers. Unlike IP-number blocks, the mac-address gets to the violator.

 

 

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Ann Otoole wrote:

Although I suspect that creating and selling content in SL/SLM is about to become limited to only those who manually identity verify with LL and "meet LL's standards" (are people LL wants selling content) the issue will continue.

when sopa becomes law then this will def happen. will be part of the reasonable steps that LL will have to take to cover itself

is not if sopa is when sopa. some the text will be changed probly but the intent of it will not change much. dmca a civil process in practice really. sopa a criminal one. just about every western country has made same kinda laws already making piracy and ip theft a for reals crime. or they in the process of doing. like USA is now

is game changer to how the interwebz been since the start. has heaps ramifications for everyone. most ppl will cope one way or another tho. ppl quite adaptable about these kinds of things

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:


Mayalily wrote:


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Payment info used is like a lock on a door.  It will stop honest people from entering and some opportunistic thieves will be discouraged, but won't stop anyone from entering the door that really wants to bad enough. 

Anyone can walk to the corner mini mart and buy a prepaid Visa or Mastercard with cash and a fake ID or even no ID.  If you think that's not possible your pretty naive.  If a thief wants to steal and you put this barrier up, that's exactly what will happen or worse, they will steal someone else's credit card and identity. 

Believe it or not there are people in SL that don't have credit cards or other means of payment acceptable to LL so have no PIOF, let alone used. There are also people in SL that don't want to put PIOF because of security issues and people who have no need of PIOF because they earn all the lindens they need by working in world.  The majority of these people are honest.

You basically saying that if you have no PIOF and used, and can't afford an inworld store we are going to penalize you and presume your a thief by not allowing you to sell anything.  All because of a relatively small percentage of people that are thieves.  How is this fair?  Do you refuse to sell to people with no PIOF.  How do you know their lindens aren't stolen?

I think LL thinks more clearly than you do and understands that it would be ineffective discrimination.  RyOta and Peggy are right, consumer education is the answer and content creators are responsible for protecting their own content not LL.

I disagree.  How is it a consumer's fault?  And, how are you going to "educate" consumers as has been stated in this thread when there are new content creator's every day.  How is that a consumer's fault?  I agree with Phoebe.  I believe ALL residents should have payment info on file, just like eBay.  Although some on eBay still try to get away with going against the simple rule that eBay is Paypal only now.  However, that is very easy education on eBay.  IOW, don't buy from the few seller's trying to bypass the Paypal rule and who say "send payment to me".  It's easy for consumers to understand on eBay, but how on Earth would consumers know what is stolen content and what isn't?  How would you educate them unless it worked like eBay ala Paypal only for payment and that the seller is Paypal verified?

I did NOT blame consumers and don't appreciate you saying I did.  Read what I actually wrote.

I only said that more can be done to educate them.  To elaborate more, a disclaimer is not the whole answer,  or even a large part of it, and maybe it only needs to be shown the first time someone buys on the marketplace, not on every page.  First time shoppers on the marketplace may not be aware of the issue at all.  They need to be and also need to be aware of what they should do if they DO run across stolen or misused content.  They need to be educated that  if they think  'its not my problem" and do nothing, how it effects them in the long run with less choice and higher prices.

Just yesterday I was in a store and the owner was selling mesh and sculpt kits intended for builders not resale.  Not only were they selling the kits, but asking three times what the original creator charged.  As a content creator myself I won't tolerate this, so I IM'd the creator and told her about it.  Told her who it was selling the items and where she could go and find them for sale. 

If more people did this more often maybe stolen or misused content wouldn't be as large of a problem. So give people the knowledge and tools they need to help curb it, not take away their own ability to sell content.

Educate them how when there are millions of items?  You are asking for the impossible.

To address other points in this thread:  Other countries can get on Paypal just fine.  I've worked with people on eBay in Israel, Japan, all over the globe. 

1.  I agree with Phoebe that ALL residents should be verified, and you can use a bank instead or a credit card with Paypal.

2.  Get your own creations copyrighted.  People can do a what is called a poor man's copyright.  Merely print out all your creations, put them in an envelope with a stamp and mail them back to yourself.  Keep the envelope unopened when it arrives back to you, as remember that has a date from the stamp on it.  Thus, if you see other seller's copying your creations, the originals will be in a sealed envelope and dated as to when created, and then you will have some actual recourse in a court of law about your creations and be able to prove you are the original creator, but again do not open the envelopes.  The envelopes have to remain sealed and opened in a court of law, so seal it very good when you mail the envelope back to yourself.  It's your responsibility to protect your own business and creations, not LL's and not people who merely shop.  It is an impossibility for customers to know these endless products.  That's not feasible.  << point address to all in this thread. 

 

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Mayalily wrote:

Educate them how when there are millions of items?  You are asking for the impossible.

To address other points in this thread:  Other countries can get on Paypal just fine.  I've worked with people on eBay in Israel, Japan, all over the globe. 

1.  I agree with Phoebe that ALL residents should be verified, and you can use a bank instead or a credit card with Paypal.

2.  Get your own creations copyrighted.  People can do a what is called a poor man's copyright.  Merely print out all your creations, put them in an envelope with a stamp and mail them back to yourself.  Keep the envelope unopened when it arrives back to you, as remember that has a date from the stamp on it.  Thus, if you see other seller's copying your creations, the originals will be in a sealed envelope and dated as to when created, and then you will have some actual recourse in a court of law about your creations and be able to prove you are the original creator, but again do not open the envelopes.  The envelopes have to remain sealed and opened in a court of law, so seal it very good when you mail the envelope back to yourself.  It's your responsibility to protect your own business and creations, not LL's and not people who merely shop.  It is an impossibility for customers to know these endless products.  That's not feasible.  << point address to all in this thread. 

 

that won't copy-write it.. It does not prove that you created whatever it was that you created.. it only helps establish the date you claim the content came into existence. it can help you  in court if it is compiled with other evidence..but that is it..

also most here know who's responsibility when it comes to protecting content.. the content creator..i don't know how many times it has to be said to be heard lol

and again nobody is putting blame on the consumer..

what a lot do know is this..that taking out the NPIOF will not stop content theft..instead it will create other kinds of theft..

one day you go to log on and wonder why you have all this junk in your inventory..

because someone decided to make you he fall guy by way of hacking into your account..only they decided to use a different type of viewer..you don't find out until they are long gone and they have it all loaded on their computer or where ever they decided to land it..all they have to do now is leave the coffee house and go and log in from home and call the content creator and say they think you have been botting their content..

if it sounds far fetched just take a look at WoW and the gold farmers that just pound away at hacking  accounts on WoW..a full pay service that gets overloaded with hackers and victims..

if you think SL is more secure than WoW then you may want to have a look at the past year..

pull free accounts and you will be dealing with the hardcore that know what they are doing or the ones that think they do and get in anyways and do the damage..

griefing and botting have been around as long as the grid has pretty much..it didn't just come along after the doors were open to free accounts..

you can't stop content theft by killing off free accounts..you can't stop it by making everyone premium..

you can't stop it period..that is a fact..

you can only try to inform as many people as you can to thefts existence and to hopefully get as many as you can aware..

nobody is gonna expect everyone to hear the word being passed around and nobody is expected to memorize sl content  grid inventory..

all that people can ask is..can you please keep a lookout because there are thieves that do steal and do sell off other peoples creations..and when you may come passed it..will you let me know so i can file a DMCA?

then a content owner or creator can hopefully get these people into court so they can use the copy-write to make it an expensive venture for the thief..

content creators and owners have worked with consumers a lot in the past..the forums have always been filled with people that have came in asking if this could be stolen or what should they do if they feel they have something that may be stolen content..

you can point to me or to anyone here saying that educating is not going to do a thing..

experience says it helps as it has in the passed..it's not the end all stop all answer.. it is a better alternative than closing the doors on future residents and opening them to harder cased hackers and  thieves..

*puts my finger against yours then grabbing your hand with mine and stiicking up my thumb*

we could just settle this with thumb wrestling :P

 

 ETA: let me just add that the hacking and all that would probably only take place if SL were to recover from the large shock the econemy just got hit with after losing all those residents that decided they didn't want to go premium and also those that left because the econemy instantly turned to crap lol

 

 

 

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Mayalily wrote:

Educate them how when there are millions of items?  You are asking for the impossible.

To address other points in this thread:  Other countries can get on Paypal just fine.  I've worked with people on eBay in Israel, Japan, all over the globe. 

1.  I agree with Phoebe that ALL residents should be verified, and you can use a bank instead or a credit card with Paypal.

2.  Get your own creations copyrighted.  People can do a what is called a poor man's copyright.  Merely print out all your creations, put them in an envelope with a stamp and mail them back to yourself.  Keep the envelope unopened when it arrives back to you, as remember that has a date from the stamp on it.  Thus, if you see other seller's copying your creations, the originals will be in a sealed envelope and dated as to when created, and then you will have some actual recourse in a court of law about your creations and be able to prove you are the original creator, but again do not open the envelopes.  The envelopes have to remain sealed and opened in a court of law, so seal it very good when you mail the envelope back to yourself.  It's your responsibility to protect your own business and creations, not LL's and not people who merely shop.  It is an impossibility for customers to know these endless products.  That's not feasible.  << point address to all in this thread. 

 

that won't copy-write it..
It does not prove that you created whatever it was that you created.. it only helps establish the date you claim the content came into existence.
it can help you  in court if it is compiled with other evidence..but that is it..

also most here know who's responsibility when it comes to protecting content.. the content creator..i don't know how many times it has to be said to be heard lol

and again nobody is putting blame on the consumer..

what a lot do know is this..that taking out the NPIOF will not stop content theft..instead it will create other kinds of theft..

one day you go to log on and wonder why you have all this junk in your inventory..

because someone decided to make you he fall guy by way of hacking into your account..only they decided to use a different type of viewer..you don't find out until they are long gone and they have it all loaded on their computer or where ever they decided to land it..all they have to do now is leave the coffee house and go and log in from home and call the content creator and say they think you have been botting their content..

if it sounds far fetched just take a look at WoW and the gold farmers that just pound away at hacking  accounts on WoW..a full pay service that gets overloaded with hackers and victims..

if you think SL is more secure than WoW then you may want to have a look at the past year..

pull free accounts and you will be dealing with the hardcore that know what they are doing or the ones that think they do and get in anyways and do the damage..

griefing and botting have been around as long as the grid has pretty much..it didn't just come along after the doors were open to free accounts..

you can't stop content theft by killing off free accounts..you can't stop it by making everyone premium..

you can't stop it period..that is a fact..

you can only try to inform as many people as you can to thefts existence and to hopefully get as many as you can aware..

nobody is gonna expect everyone to hear the word being passed around and nobody is expected to memorize sl content  grid inventory..

all that people can ask is..can you please keep a lookout because there are thieves that do steal and do sell off other peoples creations..and when you may come passed it..will you let me know so i can file a DMCA?

then a content owner or creator can hopefully get these people into court so they can use the copy-write to make it an expensive venture for the thief..

content creators and owners have worked with consumers a lot in the past..the forums have always been filled with people that have came in asking if this could be stolen or what should they do if they feel they have something that may be stolen content..

you can point to me or to anyone here saying that educating is not going to do a thing..

experience says it helps as it has in the passed..it's not the end all stop all answer.. it is a better alternative than closing the doors on future residents and opening them to harder cased hackers and  thieves..

*puts my finger against yours then grabbing your hand with mine and stiicking up my thumb*

we could just settle this with thumb wrestling
:P

 

 ETA: let me just add that the hacking and all that would probably only take place if SL were to recover from the large shock the econemy just got hit with after losing all those residents that decided they didn't want to go premium and also those that left because the econemy instantly turned to crap lol

 

 

 

With full perm items available, that's a lot to ask of people to do.  The best thing a creator can do then is to put a date on Marketplace for each item as to when it was created, such as this outfit was created on such and such a date and if you see anyone else with this item, please let me know as it is not full perm.  They can still try a poorman's copyright as it's better than nothing.  The problem I try to avoid on MP is the people who cannot write a sentence in English.  I would deal with those who say this is copyrighted, created on this date, and is not full perm as those would seem responsible people, and I am a verified seller.  If the seller is not verified, I might skip them altogether if this SOPA thing goes through. 

However, I agree with what Perrie said earlier in this thread, you can't put a disclaimer on SL MP that says "beware, your account may be suspended for shopping" for crying out loud that's the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. 

After this thread, I don't want to shop at all.  No thanks.  Not now.  I'm going to rethink this whole thing, as it's pretty dumb if you ask me.  I say LL should get everyone verified or adios. 

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Mayalily wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:


Mayalily wrote:

Educate them how when there are millions of items?  You are asking for the impossible.

To address other points in this thread:  Other countries can get on Paypal just fine.  I've worked with people on eBay in Israel, Japan, all over the globe. 

1.  I agree with Phoebe that ALL residents should be verified, and you can use a bank instead or a credit card with Paypal.

2.  Get your own creations copyrighted.  People can do a what is called a poor man's copyright.  Merely print out all your creations, put them in an envelope with a stamp and mail them back to yourself.  Keep the envelope unopened when it arrives back to you, as remember that has a date from the stamp on it.  Thus, if you see other seller's copying your creations, the originals will be in a sealed envelope and dated as to when created, and then you will have some actual recourse in a court of law about your creations and be able to prove you are the original creator, but again do not open the envelopes.  The envelopes have to remain sealed and opened in a court of law, so seal it very good when you mail the envelope back to yourself.  It's your responsibility to protect your own business and creations, not LL's and not people who merely shop.  It is an impossibility for customers to know these endless products.  That's not feasible.  << point address to all in this thread. 

 

that won't copy-write it..
It does not prove that you created whatever it was that you created.. it only helps establish the date you claim the content came into existence.
it can help you  in court if it is compiled with other evidence..but that is it..

also most here know who's responsibility when it comes to protecting content.. the content creator..i don't know how many times it has to be said to be heard lol

and again nobody is putting blame on the consumer..

what a lot do know is this..that taking out the NPIOF will not stop content theft..instead it will create other kinds of theft..

one day you go to log on and wonder why you have all this junk in your inventory..

because someone decided to make you he fall guy by way of hacking into your account..only they decided to use a different type of viewer..you don't find out until they are long gone and they have it all loaded on their computer or where ever they decided to land it..all they have to do now is leave the coffee house and go and log in from home and call the content creator and say they think you have been botting their content..

if it sounds far fetched just take a look at WoW and the gold farmers that just pound away at hacking  accounts on WoW..a full pay service that gets overloaded with hackers and victims..

if you think SL is more secure than WoW then you may want to have a look at the past year..

pull free accounts and you will be dealing with the hardcore that know what they are doing or the ones that think they do and get in anyways and do the damage..

griefing and botting have been around as long as the grid has pretty much..it didn't just come along after the doors were open to free accounts..

you can't stop content theft by killing off free accounts..you can't stop it by making everyone premium..

you can't stop it period..that is a fact..

you can only try to inform as many people as you can to thefts existence and to hopefully get as many as you can aware..

nobody is gonna expect everyone to hear the word being passed around and nobody is expected to memorize sl content  grid inventory..

all that people can ask is..can you please keep a lookout because there are thieves that do steal and do sell off other peoples creations..and when you may come passed it..will you let me know so i can file a DMCA?

then a content owner or creator can hopefully get these people into court so they can use the copy-write to make it an expensive venture for the thief..

content creators and owners have worked with consumers a lot in the past..the forums have always been filled with people that have came in asking if this could be stolen or what should they do if they feel they have something that may be stolen content..

you can point to me or to anyone here saying that educating is not going to do a thing..

experience says it helps as it has in the passed..it's not the end all stop all answer.. it is a better alternative than closing the doors on future residents and opening them to harder cased hackers and  thieves..

*puts my finger against yours then grabbing your hand with mine and stiicking up my thumb*

we could just settle this with thumb wrestling
:P

 

 ETA: let me just add that the hacking and all that would probably only take place if SL were to recover from the large shock the econemy just got hit with after losing all those residents that decided they didn't want to go premium and also those that left because the econemy instantly turned to crap lol

 

 

 

With full perm items available, that's a lot to ask of people to do.  The best thing a creator can do then is to put a date on Marketplace for each item as to when it was created, such as this outfit was created on such and such a date and if you see anyone else with this item, please let me know as it is not full perm.  They can still try a poorman's copyright as it's better than nothing.  The problem I try to avoid on MP is the people who cannot write a sentence in English.  I would deal with those who say this is copyrighted, created on this date, and is not full perm as those would seem responsible people, and I am a verified seller.  If the seller is not verified, I might skip them altogether if this SOPA thing goes through. 

However, I agree with what Perrie said earlier in this thread, you can't put a disclaimer on SL MP that says "beware, your account may be suspended for shopping" for crying out loud that's the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. 

After this thread, I don't want to shop at all.  No thanks.  Not now.  I'm going to rethink this whole thing, as it's pretty dumb if you ask me.  I say LL should get everyone verified or adios. 

i wouldn't agree to scare people off as i said in my response to him..more to just ask them to keep an eye out if they see something..

myself i feel the market place should be for demos and samples and things like that..things that lure people to your store in world

i feel the MP is a good hiding spot for the selling of stolen content the way it is now..

 i feel it will help with shoping in world if we used it as a cataloge rather than a second market..

i hate that i have become an online shopper in SL lol

i think i am going to start going more inworld for the items and  use the market as just a catalog..and if they have no link to an in world store..then i'll just move to the next person with a brick and mortar in world..i feel if they have invested in a store and land..thats a better foothold than just being able to slap some stuff on the MP and call it a store..

i don't shop from places that don't have an inworld link anyways..even if i by from the MP..

i think the market place helps to keep us from having to go out as much as we used to..

maybe this is why we are getting so bored  hehehe *winks*

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Mayalily wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:


Mayalily wrote:

Educate them how when there are millions of items?  You are asking for the impossible.

To address other points in this thread:  Other countries can get on Paypal just fine.  I've worked with people on eBay in Israel, Japan, all over the globe. 

1.  I agree with Phoebe that ALL residents should be verified, and you can use a bank instead or a credit card with Paypal.

2.  Get your own creations copyrighted.  People can do a what is called a poor man's copyright.  Merely print out all your creations, put them in an envelope with a stamp and mail them back to yourself.  Keep the envelope unopened when it arrives back to you, as remember that has a date from the stamp on it.  Thus, if you see other seller's copying your creations, the originals will be in a sealed envelope and dated as to when created, and then you will have some actual recourse in a court of law about your creations and be able to prove you are the original creator, but again do not open the envelopes.  The envelopes have to remain sealed and opened in a court of law, so seal it very good when you mail the envelope back to yourself.  It's your responsibility to protect your own business and creations, not LL's and not people who merely shop.  It is an impossibility for customers to know these endless products.  That's not feasible.  << point address to all in this thread. 

 

that won't copy-write it..
It does not prove that you created whatever it was that you created.. it only helps establish the date you claim the content came into existence.
it can help you  in court if it is compiled with other evidence..but that is it..

also most here know who's responsibility when it comes to protecting content.. the content creator..i don't know how many times it has to be said to be heard lol

and again nobody is putting blame on the consumer..

what a lot do know is this..that taking out the NPIOF will not stop content theft..instead it will create other kinds of theft..

one day you go to log on and wonder why you have all this junk in your inventory..

because someone decided to make you he fall guy by way of hacking into your account..only they decided to use a different type of viewer..you don't find out until they are long gone and they have it all loaded on their computer or where ever they decided to land it..all they have to do now is leave the coffee house and go and log in from home and call the content creator and say they think you have been botting their content..

if it sounds far fetched just take a look at WoW and the gold farmers that just pound away at hacking  accounts on WoW..a full pay service that gets overloaded with hackers and victims..

if you think SL is more secure than WoW then you may want to have a look at the past year..

pull free accounts and you will be dealing with the hardcore that know what they are doing or the ones that think they do and get in anyways and do the damage..

griefing and botting have been around as long as the grid has pretty much..it didn't just come along after the doors were open to free accounts..

you can't stop content theft by killing off free accounts..you can't stop it by making everyone premium..

you can't stop it period..that is a fact..

you can only try to inform as many people as you can to thefts existence and to hopefully get as many as you can aware..

nobody is gonna expect everyone to hear the word being passed around and nobody is expected to memorize sl content  grid inventory..

all that people can ask is..can you please keep a lookout because there are thieves that do steal and do sell off other peoples creations..and when you may come passed it..will you let me know so i can file a DMCA?

then a content owner or creator can hopefully get these people into court so they can use the copy-write to make it an expensive venture for the thief..

content creators and owners have worked with consumers a lot in the past..the forums have always been filled with people that have came in asking if this could be stolen or what should they do if they feel they have something that may be stolen content..

you can point to me or to anyone here saying that educating is not going to do a thing..

experience says it helps as it has in the passed..it's not the end all stop all answer.. it is a better alternative than closing the doors on future residents and opening them to harder cased hackers and  thieves..

*puts my finger against yours then grabbing your hand with mine and stiicking up my thumb*

we could just settle this with thumb wrestling
:P

 

 ETA: let me just add that the hacking and all that would probably only take place if SL were to recover from the large shock the econemy just got hit with after losing all those residents that decided they didn't want to go premium and also those that left because the econemy instantly turned to crap lol

 

 

 

With full perm items available, that's a lot to ask of people to do.  The best thing a creator can do then is to put a date on Marketplace for each item as to when it was created, such as this outfit was created on such and such a date and if you see anyone else with this item, please let me know as it is not full perm.  They can still try a poorman's copyright as it's better than nothing.  The problem I try to avoid on MP is the people who cannot write a sentence in English.  I would deal with those who say this is copyrighted, created on this date, and is not full perm as those would seem responsible people, and I am a verified seller.  If the seller is not verified, I might skip them altogether if this SOPA thing goes through. 

However, I agree with what Perrie said earlier in this thread, you can't put a disclaimer on SL MP that says "beware, your account may be suspended for shopping" for crying out loud that's the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. 

After this thread, I don't want to shop at all.  No thanks.  Not now.  I'm going to rethink this whole thing, as it's pretty dumb if you ask me.  I say LL should get everyone verified or adios. 

i wouldn't agree to scare people off as i said in my response to him..more to just ask them to keep an eye out if they see something..

myself i feel the market place should be for demos and samples and things like that..things that lure people to your store in world

i feel the MP is a good hiding spot for the selling of stolen content the way it is now..

 i feel it will help with shoping in world if we used it as a cataloge rather than a second market..

i hate that i have become an online shopper in SL lol

i think i am going to start going more inworld for the items and  use the market as just a catalog..and if they have no link to an in world store..then i'll just move to the next person with a brick and mortar in world..i feel if they have invested in a store and land..thats a better foothold than just being able to slap some stuff on the MP and call it a store..

i don't shop from places that don't have an inworld link anyways..even if i by from the MP..

i think the market place helps to keep us from having to go out as much as we used to..

maybe this is why we are getting so bored  hehehe *winks*

There are stores with the same items inworld also, it is not just Marketplace.  The dinning set in my SL house, that same chair is in two other stores inworld, and yes I checked, it's a full perm chair as I was thinking of buying some full perm items in the New Year to try, but I've changed my mind as I'd rather oil paint.  People are not going to keep checking if something is full perm or not.  I did, because I thought I was getting an original dinning room set from one creator.  There is also a top I know of that is in two stores inworld, so who is the first creator and how do I know it isn't a full perm item?

I say all seller's should be Paypal verified or no sale from me either inworld or on Marketplace because with Paypal at least I have some recourse to get my money back if it's stolen content or my account is suspended because of a hacker or unscrupulous residents.  I think LL should go all Paypal verified, that way residents won't get ripped off and at least we have some recourse to fight back this complete stupidity of the way this business runs.  This is real money I am spending, but perhaps no longer.  I'm going to wait until some sense of business ethics comes to SL.  I said this place lacks ethics and it does.  Dealer's if you are Paypal verified, let me know, and I will do business with you.  Otherwise, no.  I think it's time for consumer's to fight back and go with Paypal only verified seller's or else they could lose everything under these terms.  With Paypal, consumer's have a recourse to fight back against unscrupulous sellers.  Otherwise, we have nothing. 

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Mayalily wrote:

There are stores with the same items inworld also, it is not just Marketplace.  The dinning set in my SL house, that same chair is in two other stores inworld, and yes I checked, it's a full perm chair as I was thinking of buying some full perm items in the New Year to try, but I've changed my mind as I'd rather oil paint.  People are not going to keep checking if something is full perm or not.  I did, because I thought I was getting an original dinning room set from one creator.  There is also a top I know of that is in two stores inworld, so who is the first creator and how do I know it isn't a full perm item?

I say all seller's should be Paypal verified or no sale from me either inworld or on Marketplace because with Paypal at least I have some recourse to get my money back if it's stolen content or my account is suspended because of a hacker or unscrupulous residents.  I think LL should go all Paypal verified, that way residents won't get ripped off and at least we have some recourse to fight back this complete stupidity of the way this business runs.  This is real money I am spending, but perhaps no longer.  I'm going to wait until some sense of business ethics comes to SL.  I said this place lacks ethics and it does.  Dealer's if you are Paypal verified, let me know, and I will do business with you.  Otherwise, no.  I think it's time for consumer's to fight back and go with Paypal only verified seller's or else they could lose everything under these terms.  With Paypal, consumer's have a recourse to fight back against unscrupulous sellers.  Otherwise, we have nothing. 

you really should give people more credit than you do for the way they shop..a lot of people are smart with how they spend their money..it's money lol people ask questions when they shop..

the forums are full of questions about where to find this or whats the best place to get that..

and most veterans are fully aware of looking at permissions..a lot shop and make or won't make a purchase  because of the way perms are set on items..

just because you see the same item in 2 or 20 different owners stores does not mean it is stolen..

you really should understand that it is a content OWNERS market and not a content creators market..although content creators do sell their content they own as well..

take a look at redpoly and some of the other content creators that sell their content at full perms to people so those people can open resale shops all over the place..market place and in world..

just because you say your dinning set was botted doesn't mean it was botted..it's possible and more than likely a resale item created for resale shops..

if not then you should be contacting the creator and be part of the solution so they can file a DMCA..

because if they were a resale place and you did contact them..they would have told  you  they were a resale content creator and you would have never brought it up as a botted item.. so really you should contact the creator or owner to find out..

 

as far as the whole  i'm gonna deal with only pay pal content creators..have fun looking for that seal of approval since it's part of a users private information and they don't have to tell you the truth ..they could say..ya sure i use pay pal..you would never know the truth.. not unless you feel they have to show you pay pal credentials..

i can see it now..

oh yes that content creator uses pay pal..

* an IM dings*

hey what are you going around spreading my payment information with everyone for?

AR'd for disclosure!! :P

 

see i can reach pretty far in the extreme bin also lol

here is a clip of how sl will explain why they won't go full PIU to those that want SL to convert to full PIU hehehe

 

 

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I am a verified Paypal user with two accounts, both personal and  business accounts.  But how will that help you, unless you order something from me and pay by US funds to my account, I monitor that I got the money then manually send you the goods in world?  Plus are you also willing to pay the percentage that Paypal charges for a business payment as well as a much higher price for the goods since it would be a LOT more work for creators?SL prices for most goods, other than complicated and expensive items, cost very little in terms of RL money.  Its not worth a creators time to do all the work to track that amount outside of SL.

And why PayPal?  A lot of people don't want to use PayPal at all because they have had problems with it and a lot of people have no access to it in their country.  You think because its your personal choice that everyone has to use it and if they can't or don't want too to bad?

Verification of everyone will NOT stop crime.  It doesn't in RL where verification is not an issue and your identity is already known.  Ask any teenage beer drinker how easy it is to get a fake ID.  Go to your local mini mart with some cash and see how closely they verify that you are who you say you are before handing over a prepaid Visa.

As far as education.  I am not naive enough to think it will stop content theft, but it will help.  Furthermore,  just because someone is a newb doesn't meant hey checked their brain at the welcome center and won't get it back until they are no longer a newb.  Newbs can learn.  All I am saying is to teach them how to protect themselves where they can and how they can help to stop content theft.  Not that they are obligated to do so.

I do agree that content creators are responsible for their own content.  So are people for their own health.  Doesn't mean you can't educate people about things they can avoid to keep their health.  Just because I'm not a doctor doesn't mean I didn't benefit from public service messages about medical issues. 

Your choices are your's to make and I have no issue with them. You are also entitled to your opinions, as I am entitled to think that they are not well thought out.  But when you (or anyone) impose your choices on everyone when there is no reason to or they are not effective, than I do take issue with it.  I also take issue with attitudes that SL should be more elite and available only to people that can pay for everything AND pay in a method you prefer!

 

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Mayalily wrote:

There are stores with the same items inworld also, it is not just Marketplace.  The dinning set in my SL house, that same chair is in two other stores inworld, and yes I checked, it's a full perm chair as I was thinking of buying some full perm items in the New Year to try, but I've changed my mind as I'd rather oil paint.  People are not going to keep checking if something is full perm or not.  I did, because I thought I was getting an original dinning room set from one creator.  There is also a top I know of that is in two stores inworld, so who is the first creator and how do I know it isn't a full perm item?

I say all seller's should be Paypal verified or no sale from me either inworld or on Marketplace because with Paypal at least I have some recourse to get my money back if it's stolen content or my account is suspended because of a hacker or unscrupulous residents.  I think LL should go all Paypal verified, that way residents won't get ripped off and at least we have some recourse to fight back this complete stupidity of the way this business runs.  This is real money I am spending, but perhaps no longer.  I'm going to wait until some sense of business ethics comes to SL.  I said this place lacks ethics and it does.  Dealer's if you are Paypal verified, let me know, and I will do business with you.  Otherwise, no.  I think it's time for consumer's to fight back and go with Paypal only verified seller's or else they could lose everything under these terms.  With Paypal, consumer's have a recourse to fight back against unscrupulous sellers.  Otherwise, we have nothing. 

you really should give people more credit than you do for the way they shop..a lot of people are smart with how they spend their money..it's money lol people ask questions when they shop..

the forums are full of questions about where to find this or whats the best place to get that..

and most veterans are fully aware of looking at permissions..a lot shop and make or won't make a purchase  because of the way perms are set on items..

just because you see the same item in 2 or 20 different owners stores does not mean it is stolen..

you really should understand that it is a content OWNERS market and not a content creators market..although content creators do sell their content they own as well..

take a look at redpoly and some of the other content creators that sell their content at full perms to people so those people can open resale shops all over the place..market place and in world..

just because you say your dinning set was botted doesn't mean it was botted..it's possible and more than likely a resale item created for resale shops..

if not then you should be contacting the creator and be part of the solution so they can file a DMCA..

because if they were a resale place and you did contact them..they would have told  you  they were a resale content creator and you would have never brought it up as a botted item.. so really you should contact the creator or owner to find out..

 

as far as the whole  i'm gonna deal with only pay pal content creators..have fun looking for that seal of approval since it's part of a users private information and they don't have to tell you the truth ..they could say..ya sure i use pay pal..you would never know the truth.. not unless you feel they have to show you pay pal credentials..

i can see it now..

oh yes that content creator uses pay pal..

* an IM dings*

hey what are you going around spreading my payment information with everyone for?

AR'd for disclosure!!
:P

 

see i can reach pretty far in the extreme bin also lol

here is a clip of how sl will explain why they won't go full PIU to those that want SL to convert to full PIU hehehe

 

 

I didn't say my dining set was botted.  lol  I said I thought it was an original, but the same chair is in lots of stores, and I also said it's a full perm item, should have said full perm chair.

And @ Amethyst, I like what Paypal offers and that is a buyer's protection plan.  With SOPA looming, and this ridiculous rule that LL can take away all our stuff and suspend our account simply for shopping is beyond a ridiculous business practice.  That is punishing the victim, and it's crazy stuff. 

Paypal has a buyer's protection plan, and again, with SOPA looming which I am all for btw (hope it passes), creator's need to get savvy here and think of someway to prove their reputation either via Paypal verified and/or this item was created on this date and if you see anyone else with my product please let me know and I WILL take care of it.   I'm not spending money if my items can be taken away simply because I went shopping in an endless shopping market of millions and bazillions of items.  The way selling on SL runs now is chaos, and it's time for dealer's to realize that. 

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Roseysun Galicia wrote:

Credit card companies, and Banks, also have protections for consumers for fradulent purchases.  It isn't just Pay Pal. 

 

 

Mayalily wrote:

I didn't say my dining set was botted.  lol  I said I thought it was an original, but the same chair is in lots of stores, and I also said it's a full perm item, should have said full perm chair.

And @ Amethyst, I like what Paypal offers and that is a buyer's protection plan.  With SOPA looming, and this ridiculous rule that LL can take away all our stuff and suspend our account simply for shopping is beyond a ridiculous business practice.  That is punishing the victim, and it's crazy stuff. 

Paypal has a buyer's protection plan, and again, with SOPA looming which I am all for btw (hope it passes), creator's need to get savvy here and think of someway to prove their reputation either via Paypal verified and/or this item was created on this date and if you see anyone else with my product please let me know and I WILL take care of it.   I'm not spending money if my items can be taken away simply because I went shopping in an endless shopping market of millions and bazillions of items.  The way selling on SL runs now is chaos, and it's time for dealer's to realize that. 

 

No, banks do not.  Credit cards.... perhaps innocent consumers may have some recourse if LL tries to suspend their account for something someone else did.  The only way to solve this seems to be Paypal only.  And no I don't own eBay stock.  Also, make a small business account for SL, that way SL is not linked to your main household income account.  Simply get a small checking account to transfer your money in and transfer it out the same day on Paypal.  That's what I've always done as a seller on eBay; have a small business bank, not our main bank.  I think the fees for Paypal are not much more than say $1.30 per $50.00.   The larger amounts you take out of Paypal, the less your fees will be.  So you have to be savvy there and learn how to get the most for your money on Paypal.  The only other option is for LL to create a paypal-like service, but I truly doubt that will happen. 

But, I agree that all residents should be age verified, name, address, phone number, all of it, plus I do like the possibility of Paypal only for business confidence to increase.  I'm not chancing spending money that can be taken away from me when I would have done nothing wrong. 

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I'm tired to see avatars (most of them NO payment info) selling through the marketplace copybotted items. How i know that it's copybotted? that depends on your knowledge about SL stuff. Anyone that knows about SL stuff/designers can recognize copybotted items, most of the times are well known articles from popular stores that have a clear statement about their copyrights... To me  it is undeniable that by requiring payment info to sell by the marketplace would reduce A LOT this problem, not stop it but would significantly reduce. Also would make harder to the copybotters create new account everyday for the same purpose. It's required to have payment info just to upload mesh, but as someone said, taking the NO payment info accounts out of Markeplace would remove LL profit. So things will stay that way.

 

 

 

 

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Mayalily wrote:


*said a bunch of stuff"

 SOPA looming which I am all for btw (hope it passes)

"said some other stuff too"

 

Oo  SOPA is your bag?hehehe

it figures..

to think i could have saved on all that typing too..

oh well.. ya good luck with that  whole thing..hope that works out for you ..

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Roseysun Galicia wrote:

Banks do have protection for Debit Card fruadulent purchases.  If your bank does not then consider moving banks.
 

yup they sure do..mine does  i've been using mine since 2006..

i'm curious if those outside of the U.S. can still use paypal with SL or not..i know there was one point where they couldn't..and it still shows it in the official KB that they can't..but it may not have been updated yet..

it was from june i think when it was last updated..so it could have changed since then..

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Mayalily wrote:


If the seller is not verified, I might skip them altogether if this SOPA thing goes through.


If this SOPA thing goes through you won't have to worry, SL will be shutting down in months. Even the Facebookers will get some free time to go outside again.

 

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Mayalily wrote:

I didn't say my dining set was botted.  lol  I said I thought it was an original, but the same chair is in lots of stores, and I also said it's a full perm item, should have said full perm chair.

And @ Amethyst, I like what Paypal offers and that is a buyer's protection plan.  With SOPA looming, and this ridiculous rule that LL can take away all our stuff and suspend our account simply for shopping is beyond a ridiculous business practice.  That is punishing the victim, and it's crazy stuff. 

Paypal has a buyer's protection plan, and again, with SOPA looming which I am all for btw (hope it passes), creator's need to get savvy here and think of someway to prove their reputation either via Paypal verified and/or this item was created on this date and if you see anyone else with my product please let me know and I WILL take care of it.   I'm not spending money if my items can be taken away simply because I went shopping in an endless shopping market of millions and bazillions of items.  The way selling on SL runs now is chaos, and it's time for dealer's to realize that. 

No one is punishing anyone.  LL is doing / would have to do what the law requires  So if you feel your being punished blame the people who supported the law and got it passed.  So if you don't like that, stand against it, not for it

Presently, If a successful DMCA is filed then the illegal content is removed from SL by law.  If it happens to be in your inventory then its gone.  That does not get you banned unless you did more than just buy something.  So if you know of anyone that was banned over stolen content, they were either banned for something else and not admitting it or were involved somehow with the theft. 

Do you think you should be able to keep the stolen items?  You couldn't in RL if you bought stolen goods, even innocently, and you can't here either. Do you think someone should pay you?  Who?  The content creator and LL had nothing to do with it other than do what the law allows or required, so they are not liable.  The thief is the person you would have to get your money back from and good luck with that.

PayPal won't protect you against this.  If you get ripped off by a merchant in SL then PayPal will not do anything unless you paid the merchant directly in RL money from your PayPal.   Even if you purchase lindens and use them to buy the stuff, PayPal cannot penalize LL and take back the money or insist they replace the content.  The agreement to buy and sell was between you and the vendor not LL.  You bought and received lindens so they fulfilled their part.  LL has stated repeatedly that if you buy something from a vendor, its between you and the vendor.  Merchants are not employees of LL but independent sellers and as such LL has no responsibility.  You agreed to that.under the TOS.

Requiring merchants to directly accept PayPal or any other RL method of payment would severely limit the number of merchants in SL.  With PayPal there is a processing fee charged to the merchant, just like when people use credit cards at a regular store.  RL merchant accounts for some payment methods require other fees.  Obviously you never owned a RL business or you would know the costs of all this to the merchant can be high and would eat up any profit unless they were a merchant that sold a LOT in terms of RL money.  So you'd drive most content creators out of SL except for a few that give stuff for free or big ones, giving you not much choice and much higher prices due to the costs and lack of competition.

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Amethyst apart of copybot, at the MP there are a lot of people (not content creators) selling freebies or really awful items due the facility to do it through the marketplace. I'm absolutely sure that for any serious merchant with established store in SL would not be a problem upload a payment info if becomes a new requirement (actually most of them already have) and I don't think that this would limit the number of merchants at the Marketplace. Paypal fee is ridiculous, anyway  what wonderful place SL!...all the people want to make money but if they have to pay a miserable fee then mmmh...that's not good -.- . As i said, it's a requirement have PIOF to upload mesh and there are wonderful mesh creations for cheap prices (bearing in mind that has been recently implemented).

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Roseysun Galicia wrote:

No change since that one in June.  Pay Pal is not
as an option for anyone outside of the US. 

 

ya thats one of the places it mentions it as well..there is another also but i forget the search term for it hehehehe

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I was responding to the notion that PIU  and PayPal would protect the consumer somehow, which it doesn't in any way.  Now you are saying that the Marketplace should be limited to "Serious" merchants only by requiring this because it would not 'be a problem' for them.  How easy it is to upload PI is not the issue.  The issue is that some legitimate sellers don't have access to a payment method acceptable to LL and some people chose not to put this type of information on the internet period.  So requiring it would indeed limit the number of merchants on the marketplace.  You are penalizing them for something that a few bad apples do.

Complaints about awful stuff and junk on the marketplace is off topic and a discussion for another thread aside from the question of how does PIOF protect against poor quality, or someone that is using a stolen or fake identity to avoid the law?

In truth any time you buy something you buy under the "buyer beware" rule.  Aside from the fact it that there is no way PIOF will provide any protection, you are asking to be protected against what in the end is your own mistake and/or poor judgment when you decide to buy.  LL is not going to touch this with a 10 foot pole.  They are not in the business of arbitrating disputes and policing the marketplace or inworld stores.  If that is not satisfactory to you,  don't buy.  That isevery one's choice.

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I referred about poor quality items or freebies for sale at Marketplace just because i think that in someway is related with the ease that any person have to sell just about anything to make some $L. I was trying to convey that maybe with PIOF required marketplace may becomes a bit more selective. I'm not penalizing anyone for thinking that require PIOF for the Marketplace sellers could reduce some problems. And i really would wish that were just a few "bad apples" but if you check often MP stuff there are weekly a lot of copybotted items (some full permissions). Anyway let me say it again, in my experience there are people copybotting even having PIOF, but an overwhelming majority NOT have it.  Seriously, who don't have nowdays acces for a payment method? credit card, paypal...Again: Since people want to make $  not should be a problem for anyone that some data were required to SELL items. Not a tragedy, it's happening with mesh.

*Sorry about my english

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mesh market is new..you can start off a market a certain way..but to drop something like that on an established market...thats gonna cause some damage to the econemy.. and with it's aftershock it will hurt the grid in general..

it's touchy enough as it is..'

there is a lot of junk on the market..but a lot of it is old junk that has been around for years and people still selling it..a lot of that stuff should have been freebies long ago..

but some creators are still living off what they made years ago or it wouldn't be on there..thats fine it's still a free market..and if it's still selling then thats awsome for them..

there are a lot of PIU and PIOF on the market that have things that are clogging it up and adding to the page count making it harder to find the quality items..

but if we told them they had to update or pull their stuff off the market..it's still gonna hit the econemy and grid with a change like that to the market..

we can't fix things with bombs or just stop using a drug cold turkey..things need to be weened if changes are made..otherwise there will be an aftershock..

as i said earlier..i would love to see  the market open to just demos and samples and things like that..but even that would have to be weened if that were to ever happen..

because when we pull things out all at one time..it's like an eathquake in the ocean..sooner or later the water is gonna come in high fast and hard and do a lot of damage and lower the polulation..

 

 

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