Refunds on a purchase?

[Dar Tremor]

Greetings dear people.

One question came to my mind, but could not the find the answer easily. So let me bring it up to you, perhaps one you folks could help me out.

Recently, I've spent quite some coin(2000L) on an avatar. The picture displayed was good, it looked quite realistic. I was disturbed there was not much other information than that, but, looking at the price, and the look of the avatar from the picture, I had high expectations. 

I bought it. But regrets came, just a second after. There were many things poorly done, or not done at all, to call it an avatar, to even call it functional for roleplay. Summing it up:
*The ao only included one stand, where it would be completely frozen
*The ao included a walk, which would ruin the prims of it, legs leaving the body etc.
*All of it was No Mod/No copy, nothing I could change"
*There was nothing included that would make an avatar interesting, like proper done hud
*Even the prims didn't look as good as they seemed to be from the picture 
*There was no demo included 

All in all - this was said to be a full avatar. Yet I've come to the conclusion, that there is no possibility for me to use it in any RP. I do spend money on my avatars, and expect quality in return. For I like quality avatars in my roleplay. It is not rare that I spent coin on complete avatars, totally functional, and ready for RP. High quality comes with a high price. But low quality with a high price, that's just...

Now the question is: "What can be done?" I know it not likely I may see any of the coin back. But this feel like just plain scamming. I tried to contact the creator, but he would not reply.  

Now I wonder, have I got any rights? Any policy where I could report? Or have I become the victim of a legal thief, asking 2000L for an avatar, I would not even have spent 200L on.

[Aurelia Lionheart]

I always say "Try before you buy" if that's not possible go and have a look at Marketplace, see if the product is on there and what the reviews say. Especially when you buy something that expensive.

I'm afraid your money is lost in this case as the vendor doesn't seem to care about answering your messages. Did you send a notecard? Also check if there is a store policy. Most serious vendors have a policy up in the store or in their group info.

You could file a complaint at LL. If they get more complaints about a certain vendor I'm sure they'll take a serious look at it. If it's just one complained ... I dunno.

Good luck

[Dar Tremor]

The thing is - I'm not new to the world of buying avatars. When in doubt, I refuse buy, but contact the owner at first, to have a look at it. 

I had high expectations from the store, actually one of the better stores I had always believed. Where grendels would provide good quality for a cheap price, that store was supposed to deliver quality at a high price. Seeing the pictures, you'd agree with me. Well - I won't say his work is complete crap, for some armour for an avatar he made may be quite good. But the complete avatars hes selling are a waste of money. The longer I speak of the pain about this store with people, the more people I meet that have shared the same faith. 

It could have been a prim box sold for 500L, that's the feeling I'm having. I can't believe theres no policy for such. 

[Betty Briand]

How long did you give the creator to answer? Has he been online since then, did you check by checking in a group he is in?

Maybe there is still hope. Otherwise all you can do is leave a review and forget it ever happened.

IMO it's always a gamble to purchase something not trying a demo first or seeing it in world, i don't think your case is something to file a report about.

I do feel with and for you.. %#/$ aarggh!

 

[Dora Gustafson]

Bad luck. You hardly get your money back.
If bought on the market place you can possibly flag it for not being what it said it should be and at least you can give a realistic review to warn others

[Betty Briand]

oh yea, always wondered how they judge that. do they snag a copy of it?

[Amethyst Jetaime]

To write a review on the marketplace you must have purchased the product.

[Betty Briand]

how linden judges it

[Dar Tremor]

Sadly I bought it in-world, can't even kill the frustration or warn others in advance, as I cannot write a review. The odd thing is that all the reviews on MP rate 5 stars, yet all the people that I've spoken to that have bought something there are utterly dissappointed. Made me coming to believe these were either friends or alts. There were never many reviews, just a couple. Ah well, I'll be trying to talk to the creator - I know he was online yesterday but he ignored my messages completely

[Ry0ta Exonar]

---

Dar Tremor wrote:

*All of it was No Mod/No copy, nothing I could change"

---

So I guess it's a trans item, then I see no reason why they don't accept return request, but if it's their policy, you have no choice but to suck it up and move on. Maybe you can sell it under used item category on the marketplace.

[Melohn]

something similar just happend to me too. someone bought me a skin and bodyshape that i really wanted. but then we discovered that it was only the shape. no skin involved and inside the pack it has a shopping list of what u need to buy to look like the avi on the photo.  but some of the items simply dont exist anymore so looking like that is no longer possible.
it cost 700 for a bodyshape and the beard if i had to buy it cost 4000 really i mean it dont say anywhere before u buy it what u need or the fact that the hair dont exist anymore or even a link og prices to the other items. PRE purchase. i dont think this is ok.
id like my 700 back how do i do that ? this is a rip off when it say u can look like the photo and then some items dont exsit anymore.

 

Tom

[Ry0ta Exonar]

There used to be Safety Shopping Tips in knowledge base but it looks like they deleted that page for some reason, so now it's available only in cache.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RWi9X3EB12sJ:community.secondlife.com/t5/tkb/articleprintpage/tkb-id/English_KB%40tkb/article-id/68+secondlife+swafety+shopping+tips&cd=1&hl=ja&ct=clnk&gl=jp

 

[mphatty95]

Just had this problem with an item there was no way to try before by and its not on the marketplace. I work for my L$ by crystalhunting and magic fishing. i want my L$50 back.

[Pamela Galli]

If you cant try, don't buy. 

[Tiffy Vella]

I totally agree with Pamela. It is simple for merchants to supply a free demo, and I see no reason why someone wouldn't, unless they had something to hide.

It is so easy to fake high quality where it doesn't exist. There are product images taken in external programs with wonderful 'realistic' lighting that is impossible to achieve in SL. And many photoshopped images, where hair and glossy contoured skin is shopped in and shadows enhanced in ways that are impossible to achieve. Merchants can make any claim they like in their descriptions. And so often shoddy merchants have a raft of alts/chums who give fake high reviews. (I suspect alts, as who would be friends with a scammer and put their reputations on the line like that).

The only way through this mess is to shop with merchants who supply demos. A demo cannot lie...it cannot be better than the full version. It may be worse through not having the moddability that a full version has, but it will show you the faith that a merchant has in the honest quality of their work.

 

[Sassy Romano]

Depends. It's simple enough to do at the tone of new creation and is usually for mesh wearable items where fit is important, less so for builds where a demo can be rezzed inworld.

 

However, expecting merchants to revisit old items just to add a demo isn't likely to happen.

[Waisting]

On 7/5/2014 at 6:37 AM, Tiffy Vella said:

I totally agree with Pamela. It is simple for merchants to supply a free demo, and I see no reason why someone wouldn't, unless they had something to hide.

It is so easy to fake high quality where it doesn't exist. There are product images taken in external programs with wonderful 'realistic' lighting that is impossible to achieve in SL. And many photoshopped images, where hair and glossy contoured skin is shopped in and shadows enhanced in ways that are impossible to achieve. Merchants can make any claim they like in their descriptions. And so often shoddy merchants have a raft of alts/chums who give fake high reviews. (I suspect alts, as who would be friends with a scammer and put their reputations on the line like that).

The only way through this mess is to shop with merchants who supply demos. A demo cannot lie...it cannot be better than the full version. It may be worse through not having the moddability that a full version has, but it will show you the faith that a merchant has in the honest quality of their work.

 

Yep.And  I literally just had this exact thing happen to me. This particular merchant used a picture of their product that was actually made in some other 3D modeling program which I unfortunately did not recognize at the time that I bought the item. As you said, there was no demo listed and probably because they knew that people wouldn't purchase it if they saw the demo because of the significant difference in quality. Long story short, the quality of this item was insanely poor and nothing like the picture. When I confronted the creator about this, they were all up for slapping the "please don't scold me this is my first" line in the description when they've made plenty of other mesh products, some of which i've even purchased that actually looked like their pictures. They also changed the picture so that I couldn't flag the product and they got someone (most likely an alt or a close friend of theirs) to post a positive review conveniently after I posted mine. This person was quick to respond to my review but when I mentioned a refund, they went silent. 

[iamyourneighbour]

Nothing a 1 star can't fix lol

[JJ Hoobinoo]

Some thoughts - 

For Store Owners -

* Update your top 20 items and provide demos for them.

* Have an in-world presence and have a store that looks like it's regularly updated. I'm sorry if you use Hippo vendors for example; as to me that's setting off bells like a person with a AOL email addy saying you haven't progressed with the times and may not really exist any more.

For Buyers -

* Read the descriptions and don't rely on reviews.  For e.g., Don't complain something is no copy if it says its no copy.

* If spending more than what-ever your throw away L$ comfort level is - don't buy  it unless there is a demo or you can see the item in-world.

* If it's too good to be true...'nuff said.

[Alyona Su]

On 1/30/2018 at 5:16 AM, JJ Hoobinoo said:

Some thoughts - 

For Buyers -

* Read the descriptions and don't rely on reviews.  For e.g., Don't complain something is no copy if it says its no copy.

* If spending more than what-ever your throw away L$ comfort level is - don't buy  it unless there is a demo or you can see the item in-world.

* If it's too good to be true...'nuff said.

3

To further this thought: For anything costing more than 25L$

1. If available there, always purchase from Market Place so you have a means to leave review and flag an item if anything goes awry.
2. Never, ever buy anything without a demo or in-world example unless you've purchased from that creator before (In which case, there should be a demo).
3. Clothing: even if it states it is fitted to your body, see rule 2. Too many creators believe "General size X will fit body Z."
4. If it's something you rez: no-modify=no-sale. No matter how purdy it is, it's just not worth it. All rezzable items should be modifiable and copy.
5. If you buy from Market Place and it comes in a box that you have to unpack: Its old stuff or the creator doesn't have a clue.
6. If you receive a folder that doesn't require unboxing: MAKE A BACKUP COPY BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING. Especially with HUDs.
7. Never write a negative review unless you've attempted to contact the creator first, give them 24 hours at LEAST. It's only fair.
8. Remember that Linden Lab does not involve themselves with resident-to-resident issues. So Caveat Emptor.

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

21 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

To further this thought: For anything costing more than 25L$

1. If available there, always purchase from Market Place so you have a means to leave review and flag an item if anything goes awry.
2. Never, ever buy anything without a demo or in-world example unless you've purchased from that creator before (In which case, there should be a demo).
3. Clothing: even if it states it is fitted to your body, see rule 2. Too many creators believe "General size X will fit body Z."
4. If it's something you rez: no-modify=no-sale. No matter how purdy it is, it's just not worth it. All rezzable items should be modifiable and copy.
5. If you buy from Market Place and it comes in a box that you have to unpack: Its old stuff or the creator doesn't have a clue.
6. If you receive a folder that doesn't require unboxing: MAKE A BACKUP COPY BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING. Especially with HUDs.
7. Never write a negative review unless you've attempted to contact the creator first, give them 24 hours at LEAST. It's only fair.
8. Remember that Linden Lab does not involve themselves with resident-to-resident issues. So Caveat Emptor.

I would only take issue with no. 5.  I box my products so that customers have a simple back up in case of accidental deletion.  Yes, I have a re delivery system which includes marketplace sales, but quite often people don't realise this.  Boxed products are NOT always old/made by 'clueless' merchants.

[angeoco]

22 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

1. If you buy from Market Place and it comes in a box that you have to unpack: Its old stuff or the creator doesn't have a clue.
2. If you receive a folder that doesn't require unboxing: MAKE A BACKUP COPY BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING. Especially with HUDs.

So, we should turn up our noses at boxes, but if we don't get one we should make one (which is just what I do)?

/me scratches head

[Alyona Su]

20 hours ago, Pixieplumb Flanagan said:

I would only take issue with no. 5.  I box my products so that customers have a simple back up in case of accidental deletion.  Yes, I have a re delivery system which includes marketplace sales, but quite often people don't realise this.  Boxed products are NOT always old/made by 'clueless' merchants.

The way I have seen creators make it most convenient for buyers is: They send a folder with everything unpacked. Included in that folder is a "backup box". I find 'wearing a bag' and being animated to be annoying. The HUD unpackers are better, but still. My method is to rez on the ground, open to get the list, create my own preferred folder (and name) then drag from the content list into that folder. Else I have to hunt for the folder (and some creators use really annoying folder names) - then move it around where I want it to be.

So my intention with "creator doesn't have a clue" is: they are not taking the buyer's experience into account. Though nothing says they have to. It is this kind of attention to detail, however, that gets a creator onto my short list of "always shop here first".

19 hours ago, angeoco said:

So, we should turn up our noses at boxes, but if we don't get one we should make one (which is just what I do)?

/me scratches head

I said make a backup copy - not a box.Create a new folder inside product folder, name it BACKUP, select all items, copy, then paste into the BACKUP folder. So where does "box" come from again? Don't scratch your head too heard. It's not your fault that most people take words for granted and not presuming the speaker actually says what they mean and mean what they say.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Alyona Su

[angeoco]

1 hour ago, Alyona Su said:

I said make a backup copy - not a box.Create a new folder inside product folder, name it BACKUP, select all items, copy, then paste into the BACKUP folder. So where does "box" come from again? Don't scratch your head too heard. It's not your fault that most people take words for granted and not presuming the speaker actually says what they mean and mean what they say.

It seems obvious to me that making a box is the safest and most efficient way to make a backup. Instead of having maybe 20 unused items cluttering your inventory you will only have one, and since they are locked away there is no risk of confusing the "backup" items with the live ones. However, we all do whatever suits us best.

[Tari Landar]

On 2/4/2018 at 9:50 AM, Alyona Su said:

The way I have seen creators make it most convenient for buyers is: They send a folder with everything unpacked. Included in that folder is a "backup box". I find 'wearing a bag' and being animated to be annoying. The HUD unpackers are better, but still. My method is to rez on the ground, open to get the list, create my own preferred folder (and name) then drag from the content list into that folder. Else I have to hunt for the folder (and some creators use really annoying folder names) - then move it around where I want it to be.

So my intention with "creator doesn't have a clue" is: they are not taking the buyer's experience into account. Though nothing says they have to. It is this kind of attention to detail, however, that gets a creator onto my short list of "always shop here first".

I said make a backup copy - not a box.Create a new folder inside product folder, name it BACKUP, select all items, copy, then paste into the BACKUP folder. So where does "box" come from again? Don't scratch your head too heard. It's not your fault that most people take words for granted and not presuming the speaker actually says what they mean and mean what they say.

Your method is extremely convoluted and not even remotely indicative of "the buyer's experience". I mean, it works for you and that's fabulous...for you. But the vast majority of shoppers want/expect, either a box/package of some sort they can open easily, or a folder...period. They don't go through all of those steps, they don't expect that they'll have to, and they're not too fond of people telling them they should, lol. Folks that enjoy sorting their inventory in a very specific manner may enjoy such a task, but most folks, don't. 

That said, boxes are not indicative of a merchant being clueless. The fact that you don't know how most people open packages, or even expect to receive goods from the MP, tells me you're not all that cluefull