Ripped off - Advice?

[Catrina Meili]

So a bit of backstory first.   I was contacted some time ago by a person asking me if I wanted to make a lot of money.  My first reaction was to roll my eyes and say whatever, but for a lark I decided to listen.  What he was asking for was for me to build him a number of custom, full permissions builds that he would then have someone else script and then he would sell the finished package.  He was offering me an up front payment for the build and then 20 to 50% cut of the profits once they sold to the end user.

I did some checking and he did indeed have a business and seemed to sell the type of items he was asking for so I agreed to give it a try and went to work.   He did pay me for the original up front amount agreed upon and continued to assure me that I would be receiving a cut of the profit on the finished project.

Time's gone by now, and I haven't received any further profit sharing paments from him.  I figured the items just weren't selling until I was contacted by the scriptor he used, informing me that the items are indeed selling but the scriptor and I are not recieving the originally promised profit percentage.  The scriptor is now asking me to give THEM full permissions copies of the same builds, so that they can sell them at a somewhat reduced price from the first guy, and give me a cut of that.

I contacted the fellow who originally contracted me and asked him about the profit percentage.   He claims that he never made any such agreement, so I showed him that chat logs that clearly refuted that claim.   He then claimed that he paid me for things I never delivered, one item in particular which I then brought up the SLX page that shows clearly, that item for sale under his name.

He is refusing to pay me, saying he doesn't owe me anything, and the items are still up on the marketplace making him a nice tidy sum of money.

My question is, is there anything I can do about this?  I don't even want to trust the scriptor at this point because who knows if he's just going to take the full perm items and rip me off there too.  Do I have any options here?

[Ceka Cianci]

you can get a lawyer..

a lot of people don't think it is worthit..but  you can get damages and other fees from a suit..

a lot of the reason people don't go forward with things  like this is because they feel it is not worth it when it really can be..plus you show azzhats like that..this is not as easy of pickings as he thought it would be..

burn him down and teach him an expensive lesson..

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

You can file an AR but the lindens "refuse to get involved in inworld disputes". SO you could try a DCMA, and a RL attorney. Even a claim in small claims court is still a claim.

If you're out in the boondocks you might think filing a small claim against 'some guy in another country' is impossible, but the legal system today is getting very inernationalized for civil issues - though mostly in a way that favors large corps going up against each other. Still, it is quite possible to get judgements even "against them foreigners" (unless you yourself are in some place that has poor legal access). If you get a judgement, you could 'join' LLs to an extent that they pay you by taking it from him inworld... That kind of enforcement though, is where you start treading on less paved roads of the law.

I would start with the DCMA. Its the simpler route.

Also condier that the scripter might rip you off. Instead, ask to buy no-mod copies of the scripts, and sell your prims with the scripts in them. Its hard to do the reverse, because if you gave the scripter no-mod prims, they would be unable to put in the scripts...

 

There really is -NO- legit form of reseller business in SL like this guy is operating. You can safely assume that his entire business-inventory comes from scamming people.

The norm is to set up a venue, and let builders rez vendors. As for group projects, that kind of thing is usually done between trusted friends. A friend of mine for example, runs a very successful plants business, with a few other items. Her good friends include sculpty makers, scripters, texturing artists, a few prim masters, and even some 3D modelling sorts. They've all known each other since we were all new to SL (If I hadn't poofed away from SL for a few months early on I might have had a different focus and been more able to join in with them)... so they trust each other with tossing full perm items back and forth.

- But if you lack that kind of trust, don't do it.

 

If you managed to make a series of items for this person, you probably have the skills to do it again... so another harder option, is to outbuild yourself and set up a series of new products. If the scripter doesn't want to sell you no-mod scripts, buy them elsewhere, and script it up yourself. There's a script seller for just about everything in SL.

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

you can get a lawyer..

a lot of people don't think it is worthit..but  you can get damages and other fees from a suit..

a lot of the reason people don't go forward with things  like this is because they feel it is not worth it when it really can be..plus you show azzhats like that..this is not as easy of pickings as he thought it would be..

burn him down and teach him an expensive lesson..

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I've known 3 people who've been sued in RL by folks who thought the other side would decide it wasn't worth it. Self, best friend growing up, and a lawyer I used to work for.

Self and lawyer - fought back. Got our justice.

The third story is the one to listen to... my friend got sued, and from family pressue didn't go to court. They all pannicked at how scary being in court would be... it was an insane case... they were terrified. Their attorney told them they had a slam-dunk win and should even file against the state bar against the other side for unproffesional conduct in taking the case - it was that bad... but out of adbject fear of the court system, they settled for about $20,000 US on what had been a $3000 claim... because they were afraid they couldn't afford to go to trial... and when the other side sensed it, they jacked up the claim even higher.

 

I guess this is not exactly for you. You'd be the one suing.

I'm trying to state the point that the courts are not to be feared, but to be used. Learning not to fear "the system" in general, but to use it, is what got me on the path out of the inner city and eventually up through to a post-graduate degree.

At the least, use the system LL's provides. ARs and a DCMA. But strongly consider the real world system as well.

 

[Knowl Paine]

You should consider filing an Abuse Report to document the incident. As many Resident may inform you as will I; Linden Lab does not get involved in these types of Resident disputes.

You should read, and understand the entire D.M.C.A. If any avenues for recourse are provided to you in the dmca, you could follow the instruction provided under that policy.

http://secondlife.com/corporate/dmca.php

If you need help beyond what you find here at the Community Forum, you could file a ticket with Support.

[Rya Nitely]

Here's what I would do. I would call it a stupid mistake. Don't trust anyone else unless you can look at the worst case scenario and know that you could live with it.

[Ceka Cianci]

then he pulls it on someone else and the band plays on..

there are not many stories in sl about the guy that didn't get away..there are tons about how to gain experience though hehehe

 

[Knowl Paine]

My advice:

Your work will sell. That is good.

You are the originator, the source. The person who dishonored you will never have anything more than what you gave them. You can make more. 

That was very kind of you to extend a hand of trust to that person.

A fresh start with all new contacts may be in order.

I would AR the incident to alert LL. Thoughout the Terms of Service LL has reserved their right to act or not act, could be good, could be bad. (kinda like giving a baby a cat to play with)

 

[Ceka Cianci]

ya that sounds like something good to do as well..from the sounds of it there is a market for what you made..go make those builds look like something from 2006 compared to what you put out and set them in a price range that this other guy could not compete with and make sure you are advertising in the same areas hehehe

plus still sue his butt hehehe

[Jennifer Boyle]

I agree with others.  You should file a DMCA takedown notice.  It's simple, and you can do it yourself for free without paying a lawyer.  You definitely have grounds because he is exercising rights that you did not grant to him.

If you file it, LL will remove the items.  Then one of two things can happen.  One, the most likely IMHO, is that he does not respond, and LL does not restore the items, which is a good result.  The other is that he files a DMCA counter-notification saying that he does hold sufficient rights to do what he is doing, in which case you will learn his RL identity and contact information.  I'll bet a shady character like this would not want you to know his RL identity, so he will not file a counter-notification.

 

[Irene Muni]

Interesting. See the OP and see http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Ripped-off-Advice/m-p/1350057

[UncommonTruth]

Totally off topic but...

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

a lot of the reason people don't go forward with things  like this is because they feel it is not worth it when it really can be.Plus you show

azzhats

like that..this is not as easy of pickings as he thought it would be..

burn him down and teach him an expensive lesson..

 

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Ahahaha, that's my word! :smileyvery-happy: