Primsaver Rezzboxes - Downsides?

[Jinnywitha Cleanslate]

I recently heard about Primsaver Rezzboxes.

The club I manage, in a parcel, currently, with all the Christmas decorations, has just one prim left.  And iI was talking about prims with one of the regulars, when she mentioned she sells these Primsavers as a reseller for a well known brand.

The only thing I could link together was 40 prims which is the christmas club border. I haven't bought the item from the regular yet, because I like to know what I'm buying.

My question  is, would I be safe to use with just one prim left?  Or are there any downsides I should be aware of.

Thanks in advance

[Pussycat Catnap]

Its all about balance.

Over stuff it and you cause chaos. Mild use and its great.

 

Some basic tips:

- only put unscripted prims in it. Any scripts in it will have to restart every minute, and that will spike up lag.

- Use in moderation, and fairly tight clusters. I know the things sometimes say they work out to 96m... but don't. They zip around when rezzing all that stuff so the less work you give them, the less lag you create.

- Watch your sim performance in the performance meters for a few minutes after setting one up, if performance seems to take a hit every minute or so when the things rez, kill it or change whats in it. If not, you're in the clear.

- Don't put you're entire build in there... seriously...

 

[Phil Deakins]

There's one *very* big downside if you get it wrong. NEVER put no-copy items into one. What they do is rez a fresh copy of the items approximately every minute. The rezzed items are temporary objects and the SL system deletes them approximately 1 minute after rezzing. (The rezzbox rezzes the next copy shortly before the removal, so there are a few seconds every minute when there are two copies of the items rezzed simultanteously.) If you put a no-copy item in, it will get rezzed but the SL system will delete it soon afterwards, and it's gone forever.

There's another thing not to do. Don't put items into it that rez poseballs, or rez anything else. It doesn't work because, if someone gets on a ball, the object controlling it is deleted, and the next controlling object isn't controlling that ball at all. That's particularly bad with beds, of course.

One more thing. If you put objects with transaprencies in them into it, they will work fine but, for a few seconds every minute, the transparent part will change slightly. That's when the next object is rezzed before the current object is deleted.

It's best not to put seating into them. The SL system doesn't delete temporary objects when they are sat on, so you'll end up with people sitting on furniture that will shimmer, because there is more than one copy of the seat under the sitters, in precisely idental locations. So you have two surfaces trying to be seen all the time - and we all know that's not good - and for a few seconds every minute you have three surfaces trying be seen.

 

Some history:

It used to be that temporary objects used prims from the sim's prim limit, so using one meant that you were depriving other parcel owners of their full prim allocation. But that changed, and temporary prims don't come out of the sim's limit. So don't believe anyone who tells you different. I'm sure there are a lot of people who didn't notice that change. There used to be a lot of ill-will about using temp rezzers, for that reason.

 

ETA:

An addition to Pussycat's scripts comment. It's pointless putting scripted items into a temp rezzer because they can't be used. If one is used, it get's deleted very soon afterwards, the next copy is rezzed, and the script in that copy is not in the same state that the deleted script was. So scripts in objects are no good at all in temp rezzers.

[Pussycat Catnap]

One thing you -can- do with chairs is unlink the prim that gets sat on, and put the rest of it into the rezzer - as long as that rest is unscripted.

You -can- put scripted items into the rezzers, but doing so is lag-inducive, and as noted above - resets every minute causing confusion.

[Phil Deakins]

That's a novel idea - unlinking the part that gets sat on. I like that 

Yes, you can put scripted items into one, but running the script is no good. What sort of things could a script do that would be useful after it's deleted? Maybe there are some uses that haven't occured to me.

[Pussycat Catnap]

Oh I agree it would be problematic. But the rezzer itself won't complain when you throw the scripted item in there. You'll just wonder why its so laggy and why your items seem to act funny after a moment.

But if you put a sit-scripted 1 prim no-poseball cushion in there, and then sat on it, it would behave normally as the item won't delete until you stand up. But every minute a second cushion is rezzing under you and getting deleted - reloading its script every minute...

 Now imagine if that 1-prim item's script is a 5mb menu based complex monster... reloading every minute...

- All while a second one is still loaded that you're sitting on.

You've just doubled your memory usage, AND given the sim a nightmare of a loading issue.

 

 

[Phil Deakins]

Oh yes. I didn't comment on the lagginess of temp rezzing scripted objects. You'd already done that very well. I only added that it's pointless using scripted objects, because the current script is deleted and the next one isn't in the same state - so it's pointless running scripts in temp objects.

Sitting on a scripted prim, like the cushion, is worse that you said. The next one is rezzed, the one you're sat on isn't deleted, and almost a minute later, another one is rezzed. So there are few seconds every minute when there are 3 rezzed copies of it

[Phil Deakins]

---

Jinnywitha Cleanslate wrote:

I recently heard about Primsaver Rezzboxes.

The club I manage, in a parcel, currently, with all the Christmas decorations, has just one prim left.  And iI was talking about prims with one of the regulars, when she mentioned she sells these Primsavers as a reseller for a well known brand.

The only thing I could link together was 40 prims which is the christmas club border. I haven't bought the item from the regular yet, because I like to know what I'm buying.

My question  is, would I be safe to use with just one prim left?  Or are there any downsides I should be aware of.

Thanks in advance

---

A couple more things...

Yes, you would be safe to use a temp rezzer with only 1 prim left.

It sounds as though you think that you'd need to link stuff together, but you don't. You put objects (plural) into a temp rezzer, and it rezzes them where you want them. You can put only one object in, of course.

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

 

Sitting on a scripted prim, like the cushion, is worse that you said. The next one is rezzed, the one you're sat on isn't deleted, and almost a minute later, another one is rezzed. So there are few seconds every minute when there are 3 rezzed copies of it

---

Ouch.

Yeah - now imagine if the OP were to do that with something like a club's dance poles. Not that they seemed to be planning to. I gathered they just wanted to do it with some backdrop items - which is how its best used.

- But next time you're in a super laggy club, might be something to check and see if they're doing.

I just realized this could get super nasty if done with mall vendors. Imagine the poor person who clicks buy right before the deletion. The new one pops in and has no record of their money being spent...

 

[Phil Deakins]

It sounded to me like she just wanted to do it with some passive stuff as well. That's the way to use them - passive stuff.

The mall venders scenario - hehe. I created a temp rezzer and sold it for a while in my store, but I stopped selling it for two reasons. One was that too many people needed assistance in setting them up. The other was that I don't sell copyable furniture, so a temp rezzer seemed at odds with the rest of my store. The reason I mention it is because I did use temp rezzers to display some stuff, but those things weren't set for sale. They each had a box to buy with the item in it.

[Qie Niangao]

You do not want to use rezzers at a busy location like a (successful) club.  The problem is that part of the lag caused by rezzing is multiplied by the number of avatars in the vicinity.  (In fact, I suspect that some of it is even supralinear in the number of agents, unless the rezzed objects are phantom.)

In contrast, if you're all alone in a skybox somewhere, you can rez a ton of unscripted stuff without much affecting sim performance.  

There are cheaper, less lag-prone ways to shrink prim count, although they require some effort, some experience, and mod-perm objects.  (See a thread I started recently for one new-ish way.)

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

The reason I mention it is because I did use temp rezzers to display some stuff, but those things weren't set for sale. They each had a box to buy with the item in it.

---

This is actually the best legit use of a temp rezzer.

One of those "click the picture of house you wish to demo" vendors. Click it, and the build rezzes in front of you for you to check out and wander through for a minute.

I need to get one of those kinds of vendors myself, since I sell a few skyboxes...

That, or one of the ones that will rez it until they pick the next style to look at.

[Lynda Baran]

I've been using them for a couple years now.  There was a learning curve at first, but like others have said, no scripts, breaking down scripted items does work (make sure to make a copy first if you can) and don't over pack them.  

I also keep them close to what they contain, so sometimes I will have two or three boxes in fairly close proximity.   I've sued them both on a residential sim and a commercial sim and following the basics that others have previously expressed, I've never had a problem on either.   Just make sure you check the land covenant if there is one.   I do know that some estates don't allow their use.

Good luck

[Phil Deakins]

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

This is actually the best legit use of a temp rezzer.

One of those "click the picture of house you wish to demo" vendors. Click it, and the build rezzes in front of you for you to check out and wander through for a minute.

I need to get one of those kinds of vendors myself, since I sell a few skyboxes...

That, or one of the ones that will rez it until they pick the next style to look at.

---

That 's a very good use of them. I've seen it working, although I'm not sure if what I saw was temp rezzer operation or just a rezzer system - probably the latter. In my case, the objects were fireplaces that were permanently on display, rather than rezzed on request. It was simply to save on prims. As my land grew, I no longer needed to display them that way.

One thing to add to this discussion is that they are not 100% reliable. Temp rezzed objects can sometimes blink out; i.e. the next copy doesn't rez when expected so suddenly the object goes missing for a fraction of a second. That would be especially true in a very active environment where the sim server has too much to do.

[Phil Deakins]

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

One of those "click the picture of house you wish to demo" vendors. Click it, and the build rezzes in front of you for you to check out and wander through for a minute.

I need to get one of those kinds of vendors myself, since I sell a few skyboxes...

That, or one of the ones that will rez it until they pick the next style to look at.

---

I may be able to help you there. I've written 2 types of rezzer. One is the temp rezzer that I mentioned, and the other is a non-temp rezzer. I use the latter in my store these days. If prims aren't a problem, you'd be better using a non-temp, display on request, rezzer for the skyboxes, because you'd be able to set the display time to what you want, rather than the SL system limiting it to about 1 minute, which would probably be a bit short for people to look round skyboxes and imagining them living in it as a home. Five minutes, or until the next one is requested would be better, imo.

So, if you want to do it, it'll be free - and it'll give me something to do for a brief time.

[Jinnywitha Cleanslate]

Wow!  Thank you all, so much for your replies.

I'm really torn now.  The Sim I am on does experience high lag waves, which we've never got to the bottom of, and the idea that I would add to it, certainly adds a great level of dread.

The items are all transparencies of tinsel, and underneath, some star lights hanging, again on transparencies.  They are static, so I'm guessing non-scripted, and just sit there in the air, making a festive border around the club. I needed to rezz 20 individual panels of each (40 in total), and then I linked them all together, as this is what I was told to do by the reseller, but I haven't bought a box from her, as I wanted to know more before I did.  From what you are saying, in theory, I should be ok to use it, but only for a few seconds every it would look ok, and on top of it - it will create more lag.  Awww...darn it!  And I thought I had a way of increasing my prim count!  Ssssiiigghhsss.

I guess I will just have to keep on writing that wish out, on my Christmas List for a few more years yet! LOL

I will read the prim saving thread that was mentioned, but in the meantime - thank you all so much for posting! 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

If you're a club, and you are from what you said - lag waves are most likely your own customers.

People who visit wearing scripted hair or feet are the cause of nearly all lag in SL these days... everything else the Lindens have managed to deal with - but they can't deal with us unless they get the courage to enforce the script limits they announced a year and a half ago...

One person showing up with scripted resize hair can slow down an entire sim. Add a few more and you're looking at crashes. Your visitors will start crashing first, and then maybe the whole sim.

Solutions are to put a script limit checker at your rez spot and TP-home anyone over it (if you just eject they're still on the sim), or to turn off scripts for visitors (but then people with dance HUDs will stop visiting)...

I'd set the limit at about 4mbs. No one should be over 2mb... but you want some wiggle room. Most places try to go a lot higher than thought, and of course still suffer lag...

 

 

[PeterCanessa Oh]

Temp-rezzers are evil.  The only (possibly) good use for them is expendable items such as ammunition, for which the functionality was invented.

Beyond the extreme stress of rezzing and starting scripts - which has already been explained - the sim has to do a lot of work to continuously rez new multi-prim objects every minute.  The bigger your builds and the more prims they have the more lag you will cause for everyone in the sim, not just your club.  You should also note that the number of temporary prims in a sim is limited so if someone else starts using a similar device your stuff will intermittently stop rezzing.

@ Pussycat - buildings, being large, are a perfect example of when NOT to use a temp-rezzer.  You've also got all those doors and other scripted objects to worry about (although I hope you're using a single-script building control system).  If you're going to go to all the trouble of de-llinking them and then ADDing de-rezz scripts for when a different product is selected you'll be doing more work and still causing most of the lag.  Holo-rezzers are far, far better if every sense (except prim count).

[Phil Deakins]

Temp rezzers are definitely not evil - but we'll agree to disagree on that.

I'm curious about a sim's limit of temporary prims. What is it?

[Liisa Runo]

Yes, temp rezzers are evil.

If you use one, your neighbors will start to hate you. Some of your customers have also had problems with temp rezzing in their home sim and they might just boycot your club when they see you are using one.

Get more land or reduce the prim count in some other way. Lagging the sim with constant rez and derez is not worth it.

[PeterCanessa Oh]

Ok, temp-rezzers aren't evil - just the people that use them.  There's no justifiable use for them other than for the mass, expendable, objects they were designed for, and even then it's arguable.  If you're rezzing small, low-prim, stuff then they have no/little effect but you aren't saving much either.  If you're rezzing large, high-prim stuff every minute then, yes, you will be causing lag for everyone.

I haven't needed to bother with the temp-prim limit so I can only offer the 'standard' formulae: "(regular_prim_limit - current_regular_prims) + minimum(0.5 * regular_prim_limit + 400, 1000)" http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/PRIM_TEMP_ON_REZ and https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2380?

To be clear - I have absolutely no problem with 'holo' rezzers that rezz something once and delete it after a while or when no longer required.  It is the necessary re-rezzing of temp-rezzers that I object to.

[Phil Deakins]

I'd forgotten about the formula, and I used to know it very well 

You have a chip on your shoulder about temp rezzers - that's plain to see. Neither temp rezzers, nor people who use them, are evil. You need to get over it.

 

>  If you're rezzing small, low-prim, stuff then they have no/little effect but you aren't saving much either.

There you are. Even you say they can be used with little to no negative effect on the sim.

 

> To be clear - I have absolutely no problem with <whatever>

Frankly, I have no interest at all in what you have or haven't a problem with. That's your business - nobody else's.

 

ETA: The sim my store is in continuously has 7-9 msecs of spare time. Would I be evil if used a temp rezzer or two here? You need to rethink that chip of yours

[Phil Deakins]

Jinnywitha. If you are uneasy about using a temp rezzer, you could do well to have a look at this thread:- http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Prims-Prim-Equivalent-Land-Impact-a-too-long-guide/td-p/1293579. It was news to me when I read it today, so I tried it out and I've just finished freeing up around 200 prims without removing any. It's a much better solution for your situation because there no downsides.

[PeterCanessa Oh]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

...ETA: The sim my store is in continuously has 7-9 msecs of spare time. Would I be evil if used a temp rezzer or two here? You need to rethink that chip of yours

---

Possibly not then, since there aren't (m)any avatars there to be bothered by them.  I would be pleased to hear what practical use you'd make of them that couldn't be achieved through lower-load methods though.

["You have a chip on your shoulder about temp rezzers - that's plain to see" - Good. that's the point I'm making!  As far as I know there is NO SENSIBLE USE of temp-rezzers unless you "...have no interest at all..." in the other sim users. (I accept that I'm using that quote out of context)]

[Phil Deakins]

Unfortunately, I don't have any uses for them these days, so I can't give you any examples.

This sim contains my store and, whilst it isn't anywhere near as popular as it used to be, it still gets sufficient customers to make it worthwhile keeping going for a little longer. (i.e. it still enables me to take worthwhile money out of SL). Any temp rezzers here wouldn't make things more difficult for the customers, or other sim visitors, unless they were used in really stupid ways, of course..

Back when you couldn't visit the store and find it without customers, I was using temp rezzers to display some fireplaces, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, without any noticeable detrimental effect.

As far as rezzing homes/buildings is concerned, I agree with you about using rezzers rather than temp rezzers, but not for the same reason. I think a rezzer would be a much better device for that purpose because (a) there would no possibility of blinking, and (b) I think 1 minute is too short a time for people to look round. I said that earlier in the thread.

I don't mind you being against temp rezzers except for what they were originally designed for. I don't mind that at all. But I do mind you calling people who use them in other ways, "evil". It's not true, and it's a particularly nasty judgement to make about anyone. It's not for you or I to decide whether or not a person is evil. We can decide that what another person *does* is evil, but we can't judge the person as being evil.