Copybot questions

[Knowl Paine]

On a scale from 1-10, with 1 representing the least amount of risk, and 10 representing the greatest amount of risk; how would you rate the likelihood that an object will be unlawfully copied?

 

Can the Land settings prevent or encourage a copybot?

 

Are high prim count objects at the same risk as low prim count objects? (40 prim vs. 4,000 prim)

 

How would I know if a Resident was using the method known as copybotting to copy one of my builds?

 

Can a Resident use the allowed Land abilities on an adjacent parcel (in Region or in an adjacent Region) to operate the mechanisms required to copy?

 

Can locking the item or editing the permissions for the next owner reduce the desireability of copying the object?

 

If I'm working on a build in a public sandbox; can a copy-botter steal a copy?

 

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If it is possible to explain "how did they do that" without getting into the exact details, that would be helpful to me.

 

In a recent thread, I listed copybots as one of the reasons why building in the public sandboxes is not a good idea. I created this Cobybot thread because I don't know anything about copybots and I'd like to check the information I've claimed to be facts.

I welcome comments, insights and opinions from other Residents about the copybot topic.

[Ceka Cianci]

i'm not sure about a lot of things..but the few things i do know for sure is this..

if they know what they are doing..not much matters..no matter the security you have or the settings you use..if they want it they will get it..

this is why that whole redzone thing was a joke..real copybotters could even steal the parts of that that were in world if they wanted..

a security system like that would have only enticed them to show they could easily get passed it..

if someone wants your stuff and know what they are doing..there is nothing we can do about it really..

they can come into a sim and highlight everything and take a whole sim of content in like the time it takes to highlight everything and click a button..

even avatars if they wanted..

 

 

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Ceka's right.  If it can be rendered by a graphics adapter, it can be copied.  As of right now there is no technology in existance to prevent it from happening.  Anyone placing any content on the Internet thinking that they can protect their content is dreaming.  It's a risk everyone takes who chooses to create for others to see.........fortunantely, most people in the world are honest.

[Qie Niangao]

I think your claim about the public sandbox being a likely site to get copybotted could well be true, but not because the land settings make it easier, but rather because it's a location where a lot of people go, some of whom may not be much inclined to follow the rules and have little to lose if caught.

Because the mechanism is strictly viewer-side -- basically, if it's rezzed, it could already be copied -- there's pretty much nothing that can be done to prevent it, short of preventing anybody seeing the build.  So if you own a full, isolated sim, you could turn off all access and be assured that nobody will copy your work.  A standalone OpenSim running on your own hardware would have the same effect.

Objects for which scripts are an inherent part of their appeal have a better chance.  There are occasional exploits that enable copying of scripts, but they're generally fixed very quickly, and scripts are executed on the server, not passed to the viewer (except to edit), so they're inherently easier to protect.

There are some technical methods to detect copied content (especially images), but AFAIK they're used very rarely in SL.

[Knowl Paine]

Thank you to all for the straightforward and sincere replies so far.

This means...:smileysurprised:                                                 

I have to finish my builds and market them to have any proof that I originated the builds, that's a ton of work :matte-motes-angry:, I just want to build. :smileyhappy:

I think I should add the cobybot risk to my list of "why I should get a free region" thread. :smileyvery-happy:

 

 

[Shelby Silverspar]

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Knowl Paine wrote:I have to finish my builds and market them to have any proof that I originated the builds, that's a ton of work :matte-motes-angry:, I just want to build. :smileyhappy:

 

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you don't necessarily have to market your products in order to prove you own IP rights on them. copyright is copyright, doesn't really matter if there is buying or selling or marketing involved.

[Liisa Runo]

As already mentioned, there is nothing you can do to prevent copybotting exept to make sure no one ever see your build.

One thing to keep in mind though. No-mod objects are highly annoying to the user. Some people buy a product, and if they want edit it, they will just copybot it to make it modable. And once it is botted, they might also give copy of it to their ALT, maybe a friend too, and then it start to spread.

The big problem with SL is that it follows U S of A laws, so posession of stolen goods is illegal only if the value is over 5000US$....

But all hope is not entirely lost, we all should just get zero tolerance policy. When we see people with stolen content, we can tell the person to get rid of the smelly stolen item, or get banned from our parcels.

If enough many of us will throw out scum with stolen items, stealing might get less popular.

"i didnt steal this object, im just using it" == "i didnt kidnap this baby, im just raping it in my basement"

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Here's the big problem with anyone identifying virtual property that is stolen.  There are no serial numbers, no etchings with a "stolen from Me", no permanent "Made by Me", no nothing that can be read or seen by anyone unless they have it in their possession (even then all identifying "marks" can be easily striped off with no evidence that such stripping has occured).  Take a look around the clothing content in SL.......many items look the same, yet they are totally legitamate items that were not copied in any way.  A pink top with piping around the neckline will look the same as another pink top with piping around the neckline (even if it has shadows and highlights.......those can be had quite freely for completely royalty free uses.

 

You can ban anyone you want to ban for any reason you choose to ban them for.  But let the news out that you banned someone for copied items when the items were not copied will get you a very bad reputation.........and rightly so.

[Liisa Runo]

No worries, i dont swing the ban hammer when i cant tell if something is botted. But there are oh so plenty of items that are very clearly botted.

[Tari Landar]

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Liisa Runo wrote:

 

"i didnt steal this object, im just using it" == "i didnt kidnap this baby, im just raping it in my basement"

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That is one of the nastiest comments I've seen here in some time. You seriously believe the two are equal? They're not even on the same planet much less zip code. Statements like that will make people simply take nothing you say seriously. That's just wrong on so many levels.

Ftr. people have been doing(or trying to) whatever they could to stop stolen content on the grid since the day it began(which was long before most people were ever in sl to begin with). Simply put you CANNOT stop it 100%, ever. As someone else said, the technology does not exist. Also you have to remember that not everyone who posesses something stolen, actually knows it IS stolen. Sure there are plenty out there who do know. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water simply because you're on a power trip and ban hungry(that's not to say anyone in particular is, but, should you find yourself in that situation, it would be applicable). That won't serve anyone any amount of good and certainly won't help solve the problem.

Surprisingly(well not so in my opinion, but it is the opinion of others I've seen) I have seen a LOT less botted content in the last year. That's not to say it's gone, it never will be completely gone. But once people slow their role and bring their ramblings down to a dull roar instead of screaming from the rooftops about the injustice of it all....the copybotters get bored and go home. There aren't nearly as many now as there used to be. It was once a MUCH larger problem than it is now. Giving them all the love and attention they want by showing them just how fed up/angry you are, is simply going to provide all the nourishment they need to keep right on truckin'. If you believe you must, or simply want to, ban someone from your parcel, I strongly suggest doing so quietly. Why? Because not doing so quietly pretty much guarantees that a genuine copybotter is going to continue, and likely up the stakes even. Like I said, you'd be feeding them exactly what they want.

I've had numerous things I created botted over the years. In fact someone does it on a regular basis with some of my textures. Eh. What can I do? I'm not really losing much by "allowing them"(and by allowing I simply mean by not persuing things legally, which is something I am frankly not interested in investing money in. I HAVE spoken with this person, quite kindly, but this person doesn't much care). They certainly aren't taking my customers away, or taking food out of my kids' bellies. So, I leave well enough alone. I learned my lesson the very first time I made a stink about it. I ended up with trouble up one side, back down the other and right through my gut. It wasn't worth it. I ended up unintentionally causing my own self more grief because I was doing exactly what they wanted me to(and didn't realize it at first). No I'm not telling people they shouldn't persue legal counsel or legal action-or any other action they deem necessary. What I AM saying is know what you're doing and what the likely consequences are before you jump in head first. If you think getting rid of one copybotter by having them banned, filing legal action, contacting SL, making a big public to do about it is actually going to stop people from botting your stuff(and more importantly that person, who likely has friends with the same knowledge), you are sadly quite mistaken. It won't stop them. As someone else pointed out, those people are pretty darn good at what they do. They know how to get around just about every barrier you can throw their way.

I wish that weren't the case, but it really is. Every now and then the whole copybotting thing gets brought back out of it's cave and every single time it gets heated you'll notice the instances of botted things popping up on the grid grow. That's no coincidence, lol. For me when I find things I KNOW are botted(know as in, I have actual proof in my hands or at the ready that is, and can back up my statements with said proof) I let the person know. I do it in a kind non-judgmental way. I don't confront. I don't accuse. I don't get snippy. I don't threaten. I simply inform. Nothing more and nothing less. What they do with that info, is on them. If they know it's botted, they won't care and will likely just dismiss me..and that's that(and I don't/won't do anything to continue the conversation with them, either). If they don't know, they very well may converse with me on the matter(not always, but sometimes, I actually met a really great friend that way once, but I digress..). They're more likely to take it down, delete, turn in the person they bought it from, etc... if they didn't know. But whether or not they do know, if I come across confrontational, on a power trip with my banhammer at the ready and I make this known to them...well, like I said, it's simply going to quench their thirst. They aren't likely to stop. Not to mention, for me, I would feel as if I am stooping, if I did behave like that. That's not good, not for me anyway. I'd prefer to leave well enough alone and not give them any more reason to come back, if you catch my drift.

 

[Liisa Runo]

Hehe, i knew i was going to get some ppl angry with that. Yea i am super sensitive when it comes to botted stuff. They make my blood boil. Im just grumpy old lady, dont take me too seriously.

Anyway, im not expecting copybotting to go away, my main point is that we could maybe make botting less popular with attitude change. Let people see that we dont like botters and their fanclub. We can be nice and polite when we tell people that they have stolen stuff. And maybe lil less nice when they point out that they know very well what they are holding. But just ignoring it will sure have no benefit at all.

SL has people from all over the world, different cultures and laws. In my country it does not matter what the item cost, if it is stolen, you are a criminal. Not knowing that it is stolen is no excuse. It is consumers responsibility to not get items from shady sources. And in some other cultures stolen stuff is more accepted. I know some "culture" places in SL where you cant find even 1 person that does not have botted stuff.

Personally i think that botters are the worst kind of people in SL. Way too many awesome creators have left SL because of copybotters. Often not about the loss of money, but the disposable name showing as creator of their art.

From what i have seen, botted stuff is getting more and more popular all the time. 99% of all cars are stolen, 60% of all hair. 40% of shoes.

[Qie Niangao]

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Liisa Runo wrote:

One thing to keep in mind though. No-mod objects are highly annoying to the user. Some people buy a product, and if they want edit it, they will just copybot it to make it modable. And once it is botted, they might also give copy of it to their ALT, maybe a friend too, and then it start to spread.

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This bears repeating.

I was just out and about in-world, hunting (unsuccessfully) for some (any) Mesh content worth owning, and was appalled to see that the counterproductive superstition of no-mod sculpties is being even more stupidly generalized to Mesh.

I'd never advocate ripping-off those creators.  They do, however, deserve to die penniless.  Preferably soon.

[Jenni Darkwatch]

It's a hot topic. I'll admit I'm more vicious and outright aggressive about it than most. How much in SL is actually copybotted? I don't know, I can't say I've ever seen anything I could definitely label as copied.

What I _do_ see quite frequently is stuff ripped right from RL companies, and a very disgusting cavalier attitude towards it. Shapes, clothes and appearances ripped right out of various movies and games. Often with trademarked logos and whatnot. Gestures using sound clips from TV shows, movies or popular songs. Textures stolen from various pages on the web where the TOS clearly states "no commercial use". With textures it's easy enough to just run them through image search and find the original(s).

And don't get me started on so-called DJ's playing their entire grand pirated selection of music for a fee.

Scum like that will always exist in SL. There's no technical way to stop it. All it does is annoy the heck out of honest people and even drive some of the honest ones to breaking the law. Systems that claim to stop such filth are nothing but yet another scam. Maybe intrusion software like Finfisher, Hawk or Detica's toolbox could, but I doubt it. Such software only works if people aren't aware of its existence.

[Athena Naminosaki]

Sorry about this but Idk how to post a new thing in the forums. and i read about copybotting. I was recently acused of it and they sent a report they said. with a picture? Idk I was building in a sandbox with my new sculpts//templates that I had PAID for in the marketplace and they acused me of copybotting? idk how they thought i was copy botting. but my question is how exactly do you make sure your not banned? I have recipts ready but last time a troll acused me of griefing LL didnt do anything to figure out what really was happeing or if i was really doing it, they just banned first and asked questions later. Ive had my account Athena Naminosaki for years now and My store is growing FINALLY and Ive spent way to much money for it all to go down hill. if anyone even wants to my store is .Neko Sovereign. check out my stuff. everything is made from paid sculpts and textures you can find on the MP! Ive put ALOT of work into my stuff and tried my best to make sure its 100% original! to much so to lose everything Please help? what do i do, i cant find a correct report to fill out either v.v

[Jet Nikita]

Sorry for what happen to you , submit a ticket and I am sure if you are honest they will help you

[Angus Mesmer]

Always a funny one, but of course you can only submit tickets like that if you have a Premium account.

Standard accounts are limited to land problems. And yet "Some copybotter is using my sculpts to start his themed land" is not one of the options.

Soon three months after the first AR, still not anything done.More were sent, as I found new items that he had copied.

Surprisingly, it seems to be the second time that he does that, though this is a different account, just named the same through his Display Name... The first one was in 2010 and back then I'd had immediate response to the AR, with a Linden IMing me about it within five minutes of the AR being files.

Lately I even tried the desperate method of "sending a notecard to a Linden", because there aren't any useful business hours about that kind of thing either.

Big surprise that with customer service like that I wouldn't pay for Premium. Nor feel like disclosing my identity through a DMCA to the person who keeps claiming he didn't copybot a thing and then banned me from his parcel (which means I can't have a close look at what he might add to his collection.) Why should my RL be mixed with SL when *someone else* is using means banned by the SL ToS to grab my stuff?

 

[Gabby Varela]

We had someone a 10 yr SL veteran she some how came in our sim and claimed she made all of the textures I pulled from the internet. One had my voice from audiocity in it and I took the image and pulled it in paint. She claimed she made that as well. We had to spend 5 hrs making more textures and then locking every single one and making it no copy and everything. From what I am reading anyone in SL can steal your stuff. In the real world you go to jail or prison.. just saying

[Perrie Juran]

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gabbyjaws wrote:

We had someone a 10 yr SL veteran she some how came in our sim and claimed she made all of the textures I pulled from the internet. One had my voice from audiocity in it and I took the image and pulled it in paint. She claimed she made that as well. We had to spend 5 hrs making more textures and then locking every single one and making it no copy and everything. From what I am reading anyone in SL can steal your stuff. In the real world you go to jail or prison.. just saying

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Anyone can on the Internet can "steal" anything that can be displayed on their computer.

It can be as simple as just making a screen shot. 

It's not limited to SL.

Point in case, just as easily as you pulled images from the Internet to use, which I am assuming were open source or licensed for use in SL, you could have pulled copyrighted images to use.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I would not be suprised if she was right.  I've seen a lot of textures on the net that are textures created for and sold in SL.  Just because you 'pulled it from the internet' doesn't mean you are free to use it without the original creators permission unless as Perrie said its open sourced or public domain.  If what she claims is true, she didn't "steal your stuff".  You stole her's.