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Grace Winnfield
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This is a frustration I have had for many years now.  Each and every time I go to buy a new build I discard half of my choices on Marketplace for lack of two simple things..1.  the ability to view a model of the home at my convenience.  2.  Dimensions &/or prim count.

Now, I understand that land in world is not cheap if you are starting out.. however... you will sell LESS if you do not allow customers to see the quality of your work.  I am certain that your creations are beautiful.. but photos simply cannot show me perspective.  I have spent hours in the past searching for a place to see your builds in world.. I look first for a "see in world" link.... which many times leads me to abandoned land, drops me out of the sky, or places me into the middle of a home or some other shop.  When this happens I look to your profile for a hint as to where i can see the build..... sometimes you sell other things.... and other times I have the pleasure of viewing your role play limits.. sigh (insert sarcasm).  When i see, "IM me to see a sample of this build"  I want you to know I am unlikely to wait long enough for you to be in at the same time as me to actually do this.   On to problem 2.  I simply will not buy something without knowing if it will fit on my land.... period.  So make sure you tell me how big the thing is!

ON TO SOLUTIONS

1.  a.  If you cannot afford/ or are simply too cheap to have in world land to view your lovely creations  MAKE A DEMO.  The demo can have demo written all over it.. or perhaps buy a temp rez script that deletes the build after 5 or 10 minutes.  Let me buy the demo and view it in world.. Problem solved.  I make bridal gowns... the cost of them is not cheap... people would NOT buy my gowns without a demo so why would they buy an expensive or even inexpensive build without a demo of it.??? hmmmm?

     b.  If you do not have an in world store any more... change it in marketplace please.  As much as I like to explore I do not like falling out of the sky.  LOL

2.  Measure your build.... let me know how big it is.. how many prim it is.

 

I offer all of this as a customer.  Please know that I would probably have bought some of your builds IF i had been able to see them.  I probably buy at least 5 builds per year.... sigh.  I'm sad that i can't see them all because some look absolutely lovely.  You will sell MORE if you make it possible.. ... promise.  (unless of course you are not showing me because you know your stuff is crap... lol)

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Grace Winnfield wrote:

This is a frustration I have had for many years now.  Each and every time I go to buy a new build I discard half of my choices on Marketplace for lack of two simple things..1.  the ability to view a model of the home at my convenience.  2.  Dimensions &/or prim count.

Now, I understand that land in world is not cheap if you are starting out.. however... you will sell LESS if you do not allow customers to see the quality of your work.  I am certain that your creations are beautiful.. but photos simply cannot show me perspective.  I have spent hours in the past searching for a place to see your builds in world.. I look first for a "see in world" link.... which many times leads me to abandoned land, drops me out of the sky, or places me into the middle of a home or some other shop.  When this happens I look to your profile for a hint as to where i can see the build..... sometimes you sell other things.... and other times I have the pleasure of viewing your role play limits.. sigh (insert sarcasm).  When i see, "IM me to see a sample of this build"  I want you to know I am unlikely to wait long enough for you to be in at the same time as me to actually do this.   On to problem 2.  I simply will not buy something without knowing if it will fit on my land.... period.  So make sure you tell me how big the thing is!

ON TO SOLUTIONS

1.  a.  If you cannot afford/ or are simply too cheap to have in world land to view your lovely creations  MAKE A DEMO.  The demo can have demo written all over it.. or perhaps buy a temp rez script that deletes the build after 5 or 10 minutes.  Let me buy the demo and view it in world.. Problem solved.  I make bridal gowns... the cost of them is not cheap... people would NOT buy my gowns without a demo so why would they buy an expensive or even inexpensive build without a demo of it.??? hmmmm?

     b.  If you do not have an in world store any more... change it in marketplace please.  As much as I like to explore I do not like falling out of the sky.  LOL

2.  Measure your build.... let me know how big it is.. how many prim it is.

 

I offer all of this as a customer.  Please know that I would probably have bought some of your builds IF i had been able to see them.  I probably buy at least 5 builds per year.... sigh.  I'm sad that i can't see them all because some look absolutely lovely.  You will sell MORE if you make it possible.. ... promise.  (unless of course you are not showing me because you know your stuff is crap... lol)

^^ ditto on all the above...I dont know if its the poor economy.and people selling up/only using the MP..but sooo many times Ive tp'd to a location in a creators picks to find myself in someones bedroom/home/under the sea/stuck in a wall...~le-sigh~

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Successful products have in world stores.  If they don't have a store, find a merchant that does.  Consider that someone making houses who cannot afford land to show them (at least a rezzer) is more than likely new and does not have a record that would tell you they will be there when you need them.

Every product I make, I have on display in my store and that is around 500 products.  Anything other than clothes needs to be displayed in world and evem clothes do better when we can see them on.

However, as much as I appreciate your post, those who cant market, will self select out of the merchant pool and there are many, many good builders in world to choose from who do things rights.

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Chelsea Malibu wrote:

Successful products have in world stores.  If they don't have a store, find a merchant that does. 
Consider that someone making houses who cannot afford land to show them (at least a rezzer) is more than likely new and does not have a record that would tell you they will be there when you need them.

Every product I make, I have on display in my store and that is around 500 products. 
Anything other than clothes needs to be displayed in world and evem clothes do better when we can see them on.

However, as much as I appreciate your post, those who cant market, will self select out of the merchant pool and there are many, many good builders in world to choose from who do things rights.

Although I understand your points Chelsea, I would disagree with the wide scope of your statement.

1)  There is no rule nor is it accurate to state that only products associated to an inworld store are successful.  In fact with LL's push on the power and advantage of MP, the number of inworld stores are eroding on a  daily basis - not only because of the handicap that maintaining inworld stores have over MP shopping, but also because of the convenience. 

2)  SOME types of products may still have value-add in being shown and sold inworld but I dare say this is not the case for MOST other products on the market in SL / MP.  Example... I sell packs of Sculpted terrains and I do have an inworld store.  BUT, if your statement was accurate then most of my sales would be inworld so they can see the shapes they are buying.  The fact is that in the 2+ years I have sold on xstreet/mp and inworld 70% + of my sales are purely on MP.

So, I see your point but I think its harsh advice to tell the community not to buy products from any merchant that does not have an inworld store.  Merchants without stores is not becoming the norm - thanks to LL's heavy endorsement and promotion and support of MP.  inworld stores will be for the few.

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I know that there are a few people who resell my products in-world and I have encouraged them to do so if they can do it profitably.

But I just don't have the mentality for that. I came to make stuff. Not to manage in-world location issues.

I suppose, in the larger picture, though, there are 2 ways to look at things...

1) Products that might not be profitable in-world nonetheless turn a profit on SLM because the overhead cost of SLM is a lot lower. If people really need to see something before they buy it; that can always be arranged. Deciding which of these products belong in stores in-world would seem to be a function of high demand for them on SLM. Of course, we could just put them all in-world to see whether anybody wants them, but that might cost a lot and clutter up SL with unwanted product that can instead be left to clutter only the SLM. There's really no way to know in advance what people will want. From a capitalist standpoint, it doesn't even matter if the person who makes it thinks it's somehow deficient; customers have a right to consider products valuable or worthless according to their own criteria.

2) I'm psychic, and I can already know whether or not something will be profitable in-world, even before I build it. Therefore, I do not listen to customers about what they want or pay any attention to SLM sales figures for various products. And because I am psychic, only other psychics should become merchants in SL, or on the SLM. 

I guess you already know which position I favor. 

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This would be me, I used to have a beautiful sim and rezzers and all that fun stuff but with the search being so bad over the last couple years I've given up. So now all my homes are only on the market place and there all cheaper then your favorite outfit of clothes which you didn't get to try on before you bought them. Its kinda strange to me that people will spend 1000's of linden on clothes based solely on a photo shopped picture. But wont spend 100 linden on a building based on a picture.

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Gunner Grun wrote:

This would be me, I used to have a beautiful sim and rezzers and all that fun stuff but with the search being so bad over the last couple years I've given up. So now all my homes are only on the market place and there all cheaper then your favorite outfit of clothes which you didn't get to try on before you bought them. Its kinda strange to me that people will spend 1000's of linden on clothes based solely on a photo shopped picture. But wont spend 100 linden on a building based on a picture.

hmm I see your point, however unlike a building where its totally useless to the buyer if a) it doesnt fit the plot (and no details given on the MP to help you guess b) is no mod, unlike clothing which a lot of it is.

I wont buy a building unless I can see it inworld and garner a notecard with info all about the build etc on it.

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Chelsea Malibu wrote:

Successful products have in world stores.  If they don't have a store, find a merchant that does.  Consider that someone making houses who cannot afford land to show them (at least a rezzer) is more than likely new and does not have a record that would tell you they will be there when you need them.

Every product I make, I have on display in my store and that is around 500 products.  Anything other than clothes needs to be displayed in world and even clothes do better when we can see them on.

However, as much as I appreciate your post, those who can't market, will self select out of the merchant pool and there are many, many good builders in world to choose from who do things rights.

In RL there are many successful merchants with very satisfied customers that have no brick and mortar store.  It is a fact that online only sales have increased tremendously in recent years as consumers find a larger selection, more convenience and better prices on line.

The same holds true with the Marketplace.  To generally imply that a marketplace merchant without an inworld store is "new" or offers lesser quality products and poorer service is without factual basis. You may as well say that Amazon is inferior to Barnes and Noble.

I purchase quite a lot on the marketplace and for the most part have been very satisfied. When I ask, most merchants without stores are more than happy to meet me in world and show me their products. I  have had just as many if not more problems with defective products and poor service from in world merchants.

As far as marketing, it may well be that Marketplace only merchants don't have in world stores for the same reasons RL online merchants don't.  If I am looking for something specific, I go to the marketplace first for its broader selection, convenience, and in many cases much better prices.  Most of what I read about this subject on this forum posted by in world merchants is that sales at their stores are not as good as they were - due to the marketplace. 

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to see the demise of store in world stores.  Sometimes I enjoy browsing inworld and buy things as much as anyone.  However mostly I don't have time because of my own business.  If it weren't for the  Marketplace, and the many people that sell there exclusively, I'd probably go without a lot of items that are not necessities and spend a lot less money in SL than I do.

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Small point but these days important .. If you can't find the product dispayed in worrld it's probably an indication the person has left SL and left their products to sell on the marketplace. I know many do this these days and It's so frustrating if complex things are sold without support. Maybe builders should be required to have a store in world to qualify for the marketplace..

 

just a thought..

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Fabien DeSantis wrote:

Small point but these days important .. If you can't find the product dispayed in worrld it's probably an indication the person has left SL and left their products to sell on the marketplace. I know many do this these days and It's so frustrating if complex things are sold without support. Maybe builders should be required to have a store in world to qualify for the marketplace..

 

just a thought..

Again... this is a poor statement based on assumptions.  Although technically there likely are cases that meet your assumption about the merchant having left SL.... the blanket statement paints a stroke of doubt across all your competitors whom do not fall into this category.

But if you want to play this game of making statements based on assumptions... it can also be played against your business....  Lets try this statement out...

Any merchant that sells products on Marketplace and Inworld vs those that only sell on Marketplace is a strong indication that you as the customer are being over charged for the products you buy from them - since they have to recoup the much higher fixed cost of running that inworld store/sim that the Marketplace Merchant does not have.  So, its best that you always buy your products from Merchants that only sell on Marketplace since you will get the best value / price.

So... how accurate is that statement? :)  I bet you have a concern about that blanket statement and yet it technically is true as no Merchant wants to sell products below cost and inworld costs are significant and fixed compared to MP only merchants.

 

Just a countering thought ;)

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At this point it's still true that anyone who does not maintain their magic box will eventually end up not selling anything on the marketplace.

Of course, people who have in-world stores don't care about this.

Their resentment of people doing business without in-world stores will always allow them to explain things any way they need to in order to rationalize requiring everyone else to also have an in-world store.

They may believe that they're facing competition from merchants whose products are commercially viable without a showroom.

But wouldn't those tend to be different products?

 

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I'd be among those 'builders' that currently do not have an in-world store.

 

And I won't pretend that some of your assumptions aren't true. For starters, I'm fairly new and mostly do it for fun and only add it to the MP in case someone eventually wants a copy, but I did have an in-world store for a little while. However, with a so far rather small number of products it seems fairly unreasonable to rent a sim to display the stuff. And unfortunatelly, unlike for clothing vendors, displaying buildings permanently takes a lot of space and prims.

Yet, I would very much like to offer a more constant display of my goods and that demo idea is actually excellent. However I have yet to find a proper way to offer a building in a demo version. Printing DEMO all over the place in a no-mod, no copy version could be an idea.. I'll certainly look into that. 

Temp rezzers could be another idea... but I haven't any knowledge of those. Do they exist and work reliably? Any info on those would be highly appreciated.

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"Temp rezzer" is a particular idea that LSL scripting allows where the rezzed items are set "TEMP_ON_REZ" which means SL will automatically delete them within 1 minute of rezzing.  'Temp-rezzed' objects do not count against a parcel or sim prim-limits so are attractive to people who are trying to get something for nothing.  The setting was intended for weapons and similar that fire a large-ish number of bullets as automatic deletion means there doesn't have to be a clean-up script in each rezzed object.  The drawback with temp-rezzers comes when people try to use them to rezz an object more permanently, especially if it is large.  This causes lag for a number of reasons:

  • The rezzing script has to re-rezz the object every minute, or more frequently, so has to keep running
  • The sim takes time to rez objects in-world and large, multi-prim objects take longer
  • Objects that are selected or sat on won't be deleted, so multiple copies are rezzed unless the temp-rezzer stops
  • Any scripts in the rezzed objects have to be constantly started, run, destroyed, etc.

The logic of a temp-rezzer is broadly: on demand{1. rezz object, 2. go back to 1.}

A close relative of the temp-rezzer that is much more useful (and kind to the sim) is a 'holo-rezzer'.  This 'temporarily' rezzes objects by relying on each one to have a clean-up script of its own.  An entire building, for instance, is just rezzed as normal (once) but contains a script that will delete it on command.  This uses prims as normal for the building but doesn't have to keep re-rezzing it so doesn't cause lag like a temp-rezzer.

The logic of a holo-rezzer is broadly: on demand(1. tell existing object(s) to delete themselves, 2. rezz new object}

With this in mind a holo-rezzer can be used to rez any number of buildings/objects, one at a time.  This means you only need a shop area with sufficient space and prims for the largest thing you will be rezzing (plus the rezzer, of course, but that only needs to be a 1-prim vendor).  A potential customer uses the rezzer/vendor to select the build that interests them and to rez it.  They can then look around it at will, changing to others when they wish.

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I love shopping around for builds in-world. But if there was an offer for a demo I'd be happy to get that if the build looks nice enough on the marketplace. This would also include a good description. I would never buy a a build without viewing it properly in 3d again, after making some bad purchases in the past. It's not so much the money wasted but the dissapointment about getting something that really didn't fit the bill of what you were expecting.

The biggest annoyance I have to agree is the tp'ing into stores in-world that don't exist anymore. I've been shouted at for ending up in someones house a few times already :matte-motes-grin:

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I have been in both camps, owned sims for my prefabs, and then only sold on MP.  Now I am a hybrid, a smaller inworld presence laid out to display builds on demand.

My prices are VERY low as my overheads are minimal and I prefer to pass that on.  Weirdly, my sales were never better than when just Marketplace and have not increased with inworld presence.  However I really like the idea of the demo and now am going to offer this both from my sim and also from Marketplace - it's the bit about people test driving it on their own land that sold me :)

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Charlotte Bartlett wrote: 

Weirdly, my sales were never better than when just Marketplace and have not increased with inworld presence. 


I have spoken to another builder who tells me most of their sales are via the marketplace, buildings to me are something I want to walk through before purchasing, unlike say clothing which generally the picture sells, so I can understand why they'd do better on the markeplace.

However it does seem that the marketplace works well for buildings too, surprises me but people do tell me the model works.

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Just like on Ebay, when you shop there's a certain amount of money that your willing to lose. The market place is the same way. My limit on sl is 500L without seeing the object, and still I've been burned a couple times then. I watch my market place sales close and what I see for me is great. I sell one house in the afternoon to Mr. Joe Smoe and about 2 hours later Mr. Smoe is buying 5 or 6 of my homes. And that's how it goes almost every day. They rezz out the first and come back for more because Im selling them so cheap.

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