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Huntress Catteneo

The (adult) world as we know it

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There is a big carry on lately about what is near what and what is connected to what.

So I thought some might like the full picture so to speak, so this link takes you to the map of sl it is zoomed way way out:

Complete map

And this one for those interested in the main adult things mentioned:

Map with highlights

The Vortex, that some complain is separate to the Zindra continent, is part of the tight cluster that is pointed to as the Zindra continent.

The red circle is the adult Hub, that when matters were first discussed, people thought would be on the Zindra continent.  Since then it has changed dramatically from the vision many saw and no doubt time will determine what was good or bad.  It is at least meant to encompass the entire adult world, not just Zindra.

The main thing I learned a while ago from these maps, is that it seems clear to me that Zindra was never meant to be included in the sl world, and back peddling to do so at the moment isn't working.  The divide between Zindra and the rest of the map, is not just the obvious visual distance.

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Thank you for the clarification.  I have not been following these topics, though I owned a residential parcel on Zindra awhile back.  I never understood why Zindra was stuck away so far eastward of everything else that is SL.  Distance is relative in a virtual world and practically nonexistent when one can TP.  It is a psychological thing, though, when one sees the map.

Private sims that are A-rated are not separated out; why Zindra?

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Zindra got stuck 'out beyond the back 40' so the noobs that were map surfing wouldn't ever suspect it was there. It has so much open sea between it and everything else that most people, if zooming the map out from a non-adult position, won't ever see Zindra. They were trying to isolate it so that the businesses and G-rated 16 and 17 year old users that they hoped to attract wouldn't burn their innocent eyeballs out by teleporting to a concentration of green dots on the map, and finding themselves in the middle of a kinky orgy. You have to intentionally be looking for it.

Likewise, from the flip side view, someone with their avatar tricked out for an evening of XXX-extreme fun in Zindra isn't likely to click on green dots on their map view, as seen from a sim in Zindra, and find themselves in a G-rated sim.

Privately owned sims can change rating any time the sim owner wants to, so there's no rational way to isolate the Adult-rated private sims, other than ensuring they are not contiguous with the mainland.

Why the adult hub is anywhere close to the G and M sims is anyone's guess. You expect rational reasons?

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The Vortex, just like some infohubs, is part of the continent, Zindra. Thanks for the clarification, Huntress!

(Isnt Rhode Island part of North America?)

Of course, the simple fact LL named it Zindra (Help) Vortex proves beyond  a shadow of a doubt that ZHV is intended as part of that continent. Not to mention that region's mission and content.

As a sort of 'gateway' to the rest of Adult SL (as many of us see it), I feel it is important to have some branded identity. That helps get people in the door, so to speak.

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Ginette Pinazzo wrote:

The Vortex, just like some infohubs, is part of the continent, Zindra. Thanks for the clarification, Huntress!

(Isnt Rhode Island part of North America?)

Of course, the simple fact LL named it Zindra (Help) Vortex proves beyond  a shadow of a doubt that ZHV is intended as part of that continent. Not to mention that region's mission and content.

As a sort of 'gateway' to the rest of Adult SL (as many of us see it), I feel it is important to have some branded identity. That helps get people in the door, so to speak.

So the actual info hub, that was originally named Zindra Prime, which actually was intended as a "gateway" to the rest if adult second life was...bad and wrong....but the Zindra Vortex is somehow ok?

 

I spent a long, long time watching the rabid posts baying for blood and now the vortex is described in the exact same way as the hub yet is apparently some saintly place of virtue that is surely just fine.

 

Zindra Vortex is not in any way the adult hub, it isnt any more entitled to be the adult gateway than the hub was or is especially if it happens to have "zindra" in its sim name. It was funny to kick "zindra prime" in the teeth, but its not funny to take its clothes and then to pretend they fit.

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Ceera Murakami wrote:

Why the adult hub is anywhere close to the G and M sims is anyone's guess. You expect rational reasons?

One perfectly rational reason is that LL has undergone at least two changes of CEO* since the Adult Content idea was first hatched and all the key people -- Jack, Amanda, Blondin -- involved in it have since left.   

Under Rodvik  there's been a huge, and very welcome, change in LL's attitude to Adult Content.   It's now easy-peasy to register as Adult, we're in the Destination Guide, resident-run initiatives like the Adult Hub are being encouraged, so why's it a surprise that LL no longer wants to hide Adult Content away at the far end of the map?

ETA

What the map doesn't show is the whereabouts of the other ~2800 Adult sims dotted round the grid, happily integrated with rest of SL.  To me, at least, it's hugely welcome that LL is now putting Adult Content back where it should be, and used to be, as a normal part of SL, and not tucked away like a dirty little secret.  

The last couple of years, up until the last few months, have been an unpleasant aberration,  with LL trying to pretend that the ~80% of Adult sims there weren't part of Zindra simply didn't exist and that Zindra was all there was.    I'm delighted a more sensible attitude has been adopted.

*(or is it three? I know the Adult Content classification, and all that went with it, was executed during M's brief tenure as CEO, but I seem to recall we were protesting about its impending introduction -- back when Zindra was called Ursula -- towards the end of Phillip's first tenure, but no matter) .

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1. The Zindra Help Vortex is actually part of Zindra (see Huntress' thread start) as the Adult Hub was not, compared to the issue people had with 'Zindra Prime' (since it made the Freedom Continent appear to be the mainland in a sense) Very separate issue. Proverbial apples and proverbial oranges!

2. ZHV was never intended to be a 'gateway'. If you read what I wrote, I described the Zindra mainlaind in its entirety as sort of gateway, at least concepiually speakin. For some reason, people keep trying to judge ZHV as if it were a gateway. Even if has some of those aspects, that is not its main purpose.

3. ZHV was designed to be a Help center on Zindra. There are no clothes to take off. Nothing has changed. It has every right to be what it is, as when it first started.

To sum up, ZHV has every right to be 'Zindran' whereas the Adult Hub was temporarily misnamed,. and thankfully that has been resolved. These are vastly unrelated issues.

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Here we go, blast from the past for you:

Protests

I can't find the pic of my friend and a group of others with their signs etc having a little rally unfortunately.

 

As far as showing how many adult places around etc, that is pretty hard, especially as someone said they can change at a whim anyway (I myself am M atm for my art charity event as being A would mean too many people could not get in for something I need to get a lot of people to).  Sadly because the way things are set up, it can be very hard on events, haveing singers and musicians, and being part of things like shop hunts.

Anyway, this map:

PG and A event map

shows the main sims area, no Zindra (Zindra we all know is A anyway except one M spot).

this only shows A and PG events, it does not show how many A and PG sims.  It does show just how mixed in they all are.

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Thanks.   I remember that -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/25120984@N02/3477891498/ (though my hair was a bit different then).

I remembered seeing this site that shows Maturity Rating overlays for regions; you can't get Zindra onto the same page as the rest, but it's very clear when you drag the rest of the map round that most of Adult SL is, and has been, mixed in happily ajacent to or nearby M estate sims for the last couple of years.

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you may remember that originally LL were cool with estate g regions abutting A regions and it was only later they decided that only M regions could share a border.  Contrast that with zindra which has been effectively hidden behind the firewall - off the map, unable to get to it anyway except for a tp, unfairly weighted in search.  I know we're supposed to be grateful that they fixed the verification problem and have us in the destination guide but adult is still unfairly penalised in search and zindra more so because of the issues around the map/access.  I also think adult marketplace listings are still hidden from the web spiders, although I haven't checked lately.

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I had always envisioned Zindra as being the hub or gateway the adult content and would have a been a great welcome center.  Beings that it is so far removed in fact, is a help not a hindrances.  However, the marketing of Zindra, it's utilization and of course the ability for adult properties to leverage it have been poorly executed.

I am not sure what the outcome of this will,  if in fact there is any resolution but given the way it currently sits, it's value is and continues to diminish.  Ginette has worked her butt off on this and I wish they would give her more credit and leeway to do what she seems best but that changes with each new entry from Linden Management as Huntress has pointed out.

It's now a sandbox where you can go to make sex toys or adjust the bits on your avi.  Not really what I had envisioned nor really anyone that I know.  I'm actually not sure a name change would hurt or help, it's really not the big picture here.  The big picture is utilization.

Remember how freaked out everyone was when they told us we would have to give our real ID to age verify?  Many said it was the end of adult in SL while others said it would vacate any adult region.  Now it seems the adult regions have the most traffic. 

My point is that I don't think this is going to be as big of an issue in the end as most seem to be predicting. 

And Ginette, keep up the good work you are doing...you rock and are very appreciated by many.

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Chelsea Malibu wrote:

 

Remember how freaked out everyone was when they told us we would have to give our real ID to age verify?  Many said it was the end of adult in SL while others said it would vacate any adult region.  Now it seems the adult regions have the most traffic. 


The ID verification definately meant quite a few people I knew did not verify, they did not want those details linked in any way to the adult stuff.  Most premium members didn't worry too much, as there details were already on the system.  I remember many a meeting about how to verify, and how to make your land and other places check there status and allow or block them.

Now of course the adult places have loads of traffic, you don't need ID to verify, all you need do is type in your birthday.  Kids of course are not going to go and put a birth date when they sign up are they?  oh that's right, they are meant to pay attention to the bits like I confirm I am an adult so therefore they are the ones at fault for lying etc.  Sorry they are kids, they tend to ignore quite a few rules, like not drinking before a certain age.  So then you get into the whole mess of an adult playing around with them, expecting that because they are in an adult area, they must be an adult and safe to play with.

Yeah I know should still ask age (how often do we do that with anyone in sl?).

Yeah I know even having the idea stuff does not mean they are adult (but it is a higher chance they are).

For me the safest thing is instinct, it the act/feel like a kid, proceed with caution until you can be more sure one way or the other.

Many thought merging the teens into the main grid was a very bad idea as they would be exposed to all manner of terrible adult stuff.  Well my son was on there a while, until he got sick of the rubbish like a sandbox full of **bleep**'s bouncing around ejaculating.  The sex stuff was not an isolated incidence.  In the end none of us are protected on either side of the equation.

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I think one of the big problems with Zindra, and I don't think it's fixable without so much disruption it probably wouldn't be worth it, is that the way land was allocated/grabbed, there's very few real districts or neighbourhoods.    When we had the main store on Tovaris, we had a lot of traffic, and there was a RP place over the road, on the next sim, which was also busy. But very few people actually left the store or the RP place to explore other venues on the sim, let alone struggle with the horrendous sim crossings (which I hope are now improved), even though you could see other places nearby.   

I used to spend quite a bit of time in the shop, and, almost without exception, I'd see  people TP in -- obviously having used our slurl in the marketplace or a LM they'd picked up from an affiliate vendor -- look round the shop, buy stuff if they were going to, and then TP off somewhere else, rather than walk out of the building and look round.    

Obviously there are exceptions, but we --people who moved to Zindra --  just weren't in a position to make the sort of decisions we normally make when buying or renting land; we couldn't look at what the neighbouring businesses and attractions were like, or where the main TP arrivals point was.    

I think that's the big difference, as far as I'm concerned, and it's why the big advantage of moving to Zindra that Blondin tried to sell us before the move -- having lots of customers interested in the same sort of thing, all in the same place -- proved illusory.    It works on a themed sim, but not on Zindra, or not on most of it.

 

 

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