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Zindra help Vortex

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  • "It is more than likely that the "right people" are people who can be massaged into visiting their own businesses more than anything else. "

It amazes me that you continue to ignore rational argument and rely on slinging foundless and inflammatory accusations at good peope.  Your posts should be removed.  I challenge you and anyone else reading this to find any reference to me or my business anywhere at Vortex. Unless I have left some litter somewhere I have two prims at Vortex today.  One is my help call box, and one is the landing zone greeter.

I get nothing out of Vortex other than lost time and aggravation responding to garbage like your post above.  I support Vortex because I believe in the people and what they are doing. I don't know what your agenda is, but try to learn to address what you see as bad ideas with better ideas.  If you have none, silence is better than mindless defamation.

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  • "What we see is a very strong group bias run by the same few people, and there is nothing open and impartial information at Vortex as has been claimed in other, and partly in this thread. "

Again, Gavin, Vortex is run by a volunteer staff.  If you want to help run it volunteer. Mindless repetition of bad ideas does not make them correct.

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It may well be that the Vortex group was originally formed to help promote Zindra specifically, as opposed to SL Adult content in general.  Similarly, it may be that some members of that group are still primarily motivated to promote Zindra specifically, as opposed to SL Adult content in general.

It seems fairly clear that the Lab now intends that  sim to be used to benefit SL Adult content in general, not Zindra only.

That may pose a choice for those involved in that group, whether their interests can align with that broader mission, or are focused only on the Zindra continent.  There's validity in either answer, IMHO -- there's nothing wrong with wanting to advance a community local to the continent.  That's just not what the Vortex sim is about now.

For those interested in the broader objective, this change represents an opportunity.  

This forum is also an opportunity.

Hint, hint.

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Qie, as has been stated over and over, the mission to promote Zindra is tied to promotion of Adult SL in general. Thats i consistent with all of the ZE and ZHV initiatives. There is no needed 'separation' of concepts here. ZHV works to promote varipus aspects of Zindra yes...and by EXTENSION, all of Adult SL. This is an underlying principle.

What benefits Zindra can also benefit all Adult SL.

This is not an 'opportunity' to expand the mission. The mission is already there, and expanded.

Some of you out there should think about what 'Zindra' means. Sure, its the name of the mainland, but its far mroe lucrative than that......it's a keyword, a buzzword, a sign to many that evokes Adult Sl in general. Thst has great value.. Stop thinking about land masses and how many feet away from mainland the Vortex is........Zindra is helpful term that helps all of Adult Sl...which needs all the help it can get

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Ginette Pinazzo wrote:

What benefits Zindra can also benefit all Adult SL.

 

Only to a certain extent. When it comes to policy issues like how to age verify, how to introduce newcomers to the fact there is adult content in SL, whether to sell anatomically correct avatars... yes it does. 

When it comes to marketing, Zindra and Zindra businesses are in a fierce competition for attention, both with other adult regions and with estates in general, mature mainland in particular. 

Zindra Alliance has been of the opinion we can build "Destination Zindra" as a brand, and by having Zindra Help Vortex completely disconnected (both physically and mentally) it badly hurts the Zindra continent now that the Zindra sim is gone. Which is why this renaming is welcome, so we can focus on building a brand for what is Zindra; the 343 sim continent. 

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We know that mentor based operations have a tendency to recommend what they know; and what they know is often their own, their alts and their friends businesses. (Has been discussed at length elsewhere in this forum.)

We also see that there is a strong bias in promoting the ZE group at Vortex, which in itself is a bias. When Innula in another thread suggested other entities also could leave information there, she was sabled down by Vortex staff.

We can also see the bias in the many Zindra named web-sites and blogs held by Vortex members – that there is a strong bias to BDSM and femdom oriented activities. This represents, per LL's definition of adult content only a subset of adult content and what Zindra contains.

Finally we also saw the same bias in the zexpo event, where major groups of interests were not represented at all in the expo. 

In sum, I stand by my words. 

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Zindra Help Vortex is an integral part of the Zindra brand, and this cavalier name change only dilutes that brand.

You need to get past the competition angle and think about cooperation, and see how this can work for all parties.

ZHV is not 'disconnected mentally' from Zindra. Please refrain from spreading that misinformation. We get to hear that and another poster's opposite assertion that ZHV is only Zindracentric. Interesting how two contradictory claims are being made in the same movement to take away identity of ZHV.

Now you say you want to build your own 'destination zindra' brand.

You have just declared your agenda. Thank you for doing that.

Zindrans, Adult Slers, take note!

 

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Please stop insinuating and claiming any collusion on the part of ZHV or ZE. You are attempting to defame the groups.

Please stop saying 'we' when it is YOU who is talking.

ZE is an LL group. Its neutral 100^%. No Bias. And you keep claiming otherwise w/o any proof. So...ZHV doesnt accept advertising. Thats the way it is, and should be. Are we supposed to place ads for your group? A commercial enterprise that represents a small amount of businesses? Your own groups' directory that clearly directs people to specific companies? The pot calls the kettle black as they say?

How is ZE bias? Explain that one.

You are attempting to defame all of ZE's activities and claim they are bias? How? On websites? Promoting only bdsm or femdom? How?

Bias at ZEXPO? How? Seemed very diverse to me.

You have yet to show any words to stand by. Please stop trying to harm  ZHV and ZE groups with bizarre allegations and concentarte on yoru own, hopefully positive projects.

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The first time Zindra Alliance discussed "Destination Zindra" as a concept and brand was at a group meeting in January 2010 wich resulted in the Zindra unzipped slogan and artwork. (You see the artwork in the Zindra Arena logo.)  This is nothing new at all. (It is all in our group minutes you can retrieve from our group office as a group member.)

The difference is that we want to focus the Zindra name on the 343 sim big continent as a whole, and not on Zindra Vortex, Zindra promenade, Zindra expo island, Zindra Business, Zindra this, Zindra that... 

This is also why we wanted to focus on developing the Zindra sim only as the community gateway to the continent.  This way you can build the brand Zindra – You go to Zindra, the 343 sim big continent with all it entails. 

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If you are so neutral, just remove any traces of ZE from Vortex, or allow others to profile themselves at the same footing. 

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ZE is in itself neutral. Any links to LL resources make sense at Vortex. (such as the new premium sandboxes if LL will let that occur!)

Your group is not neutral by definition. ZA is a resident-run group (which is great) and a commercial enterprise that represents specific businesses. Innapropriate to advert it at ZHV.

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Thats great that YOU want to focus on that.......your own private resident-run group...on your own projects......but dont try to tear down exisitng ideas for your own vision. Thats transparently aggressive, and causes rifts in the community. Why build up your own group's projects at the expense of others'?  That is an old way of doing busienss and this is almost 2012. Please

Zindra Alliance (and other groups) should prosper in their own right, and not by teraing down others. ZA doent exactly represent the mainland, let alone Adult Sl. But you have clearly stated in the forum that you want to create the Destination Zindra brand and thats why you want to remove 'Zindra' name from Vortex (and other places). You have explained your agenda and its one of a combattive, 100% competetive nature.

I hope 2012 sees better examples of business behavior than this.

 

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Really Ginette! You can do better than this?

The members of ZE are to a large extent the same members as we have in ZA. In one group they are neutral, in the other they represent big, bad commercial enterprises ;-))

It seems to have completely escaped you that Linden Lab is also a commercial enterprise, and as such is no more nautral than Ford or Apple is.  You really need to get over ideas that the rest of the world left behind when the Berlin wall fell. 

Finally, I said in another thread that it is totally irrelevant for me if ZA has any info at Vortex or not. I seriously mean it. What is important is that there is one rule for all – that is neutrality. 

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Removing Zindra from the Vortex sim name is not tearing down, but renaming it will give the Vortex a much wider audience and make this great resource accessible for the entire grid. It will give you plenty of new challenges and oportunities. 

Yes, focusing the Zindra name on the continent is 100% competitive in nature – in competition with all the remaining 3000 adult regions, and to a very large extent mature mainland.  

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yes and one rule that is for all is No Advertising at Zindra Help Vortex. You just dont like the rule, apparently.

And you need to look over LL's policies and refresh your memory abt neutrality.

And please stop insinuating I am anti-commercial, which is getting to be slanderous. I am simply aligning with the overall concept that is pervasive throughout LL policy, re: neutrality.  Its those policies that keep adfarms out of civic spaces and prevent any one company abusing public space. I would guess most residents in SL appreciate this policy and its such policies that actually allow the healthy growth of business.

In its own way, a place like Zindra Help Vortex (delightfully free of adfarms) can create a climate that is conduscive to business growth. This is REAL commercial benefit. You should celebrate this w/o trying to disarm it every chance you get.

 

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Removing Zindra name is part of the tearing down. And constatntly finding fault with ZHV operation or setup or name is constant 'tearing down' as opposed to support.

Interesting that you continue to see Zindra in competition with Estates. Thats your glass half empty, there. If you would switch glasses and see opportunity for collaboration, this entire development may have bene different. And you are also being competeive with other groups, such as ZHV and ZE....for no reason. Finally, you are being competeive by trying to silence a brand so you can create a new one, as you've admitted in this thread. I urge you to reconsider the competition angle. It really doesnt have to be that way.

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Ginette Pinazzo wrote:

yes and one rule that is for
all
is No Advertising at Zindra Help Vortex. 

Great. The you will have all information that is not relevant to the sandbox removed from it within the hour? That means no group info – nothing. You know, just like another public sandbox. 

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Actually it is you who have ruined the Zindra brand. 

Torn it down, watered it out with confusing naming schemes, multiple sims and pointing to blogs and web pages all over the place. You have more or less hijacked the name for your own agenda. Right?

We are talking about renaming a sim – a map tile, to prevent people who look for the 343 sim continent to not land a place they did not want to land. (You can call your group whatever you want for me or anyone else regardless of the sim name.)

We are talking about renaming a sim to better rank in both map and regular search - a name that will make it much clearer what the purpose of that shared resource is. 

I am sorry Ginette, but the destruction has largely been on you. 

 

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For last time, ZHV is not just a sandbox. Read over the mission. The content there is relevant and neutral. Any group mentioned there is an LL group that is also neutral and relevant.

You need to keep this thread on topic and stop trying to find fault with those who are actually trying to help.

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Please cease your demonization of me in this public space. IM me inworld if you really want to try to talk....again.

How have I hurt anyone? Are you accusing me of something specifc? I think you should take that topic inworld with me.

If it wasnt for community actions, there would be no Vortex ....no such help area or sandbox or anything at all in Zindra, Its because of community (not just me!) and lots of good people doing good work that Vortex is even an asset today worth talking about. Recognize the past achievments and honor them. Its the least you can do for your neighbour residents.

(same with ZEXPO island.,,if many people hadnt developed that program, it wouldnt have been so eagerly set out for sale.,..oh, and in case you slept through it, if it werent for the mainstream marketing approach we lobbied for, you would not even be in the destination guide...have you thoiught abt that?)

And the list could go on, but staying on thread toipic:

The only actual destruction I see here is demonizing material...demonizing of not just myself, but the Vortex project itself, and its current staff, and the hoisting up of an almost incidental 'name issue' that is so trivial and pointless it should have been laughed off the table on day one.

LL......I suggest a rethink and rename the region what is should have been all along: Zindra Help Vortex (all 3 words) and let the brand grow, continuing to appreciate and utlize the talents and efforts of the still-not-quite-jaded volunteers who exist.

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In its own way, a place like Zindra Help Vortex (delightfully free of adfarms) can create a climate that is conduscive to business growth. This is REAL commercial benefit. You should celebrate this w/o trying to disarm it every chance you get.

 

This ^  completely.

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*ETA -- Voodoo found it by looking for something in the wiki.  I doubt that can be the normal method, though, since, in my experience, anyway, a lot of people rarely use the wiki even when it's the obvious place to look (e.g. for advice on what a particular LSL function does).

 

I'm not feigning ignorance; quite genuinely, I don't see how someone who isn't already aware of the place is going to find out about the Zindra Help Vortex other than by looking for information on Zindra, either in-world, or in the wiki or on Google generally, and finding the Vortex that way, unless it's on a friend's recommendation or they want to find out about speedbuilding.

I was not aware of the place. I searched on the wiki for linden groups (zindra was the one that catched my attention). I came to vortex and i stayed. Later i discovered zindra continent thanks to Lady Godiva procession. Why do i read that Vortex dont promote and help connect residents with zindra :S ?

 

Edit: I writted connect two times instead ot promote.

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Ginette Pinazzo wrote:

Qie, as has been stated over and over, the mission to promote Zindra is tied to promotion of Adult SL in general. Thats i consistent with all of the ZE and ZHV initiatives. There is no needed 'separation' of concepts here. ZHV works to promote varipus aspects of Zindra yes...and by EXTENSION, all of Adult SL. This is an underlying principle.

What benefits Zindra can also benefit all Adult SL.

This is not an 'opportunity' to expand the mission. The mission is already there, and expanded.

Some of you out there should think about what 'Zindra' means. Sure, its the name of the mainland, but its far mroe lucrative than that......it's a keyword, a buzzword, a sign to many that evokes Adult Sl in general. Thst has great value.. Stop thinking about land masses and how many feet away from mainland the Vortex is........Zindra is helpful term that helps all of Adult Sl...which needs all the help it can get

I was talking about Zindra, not Zombo.

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Other than the fact that things a LL must be pretty boring these days as I see no reason at all to rebrand anything.  Ever hear the term "Branding" yes, there is a marketing term that was taught on the day you missed class because the new iPhone came out but it has relevance.

Companies spend billions on branding and for a good reason.  

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"Zindra Help Vortex - Adult Sandbox"

 

Whats wrong with that, why not have it all?

I have seen parcel names much longer then that.

 

Also the question is a bit more complicated than it seems!

What are we talking about changing?

The curent Sim Name is: "Zindra Vortex"

The curent parcle name is: "Public Sandbox - Cleans every 2 hours. NO COMBAT! NO SELLING!"

 

* Plese Note ( I think everone has missed something!):

 At This Time it only show in search by SIM because All SIMS Show in Search As SIMs.

Zindra Vortex(the curent name) is NOT set to "Show In Places" !!!

Therefore keywords and parcel name are useless. Would not fixing this fix the findablity?

LL Needs to fix all of these settings; Show in Search, Parcel Name, Keywords!

Unless this is changed only the SIM name will be searchable, that seems to be the actual problem. Is there aproblem with LL paying it self to be in search? I would not think it matters anyway LL pays $L30 to LL who collects L$30. L$30 - L$30 = L$0. That is if they simply can't just overide it with LL powers.

 

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