Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Linden Lab

Zindra help Vortex

Recommended Posts

As discussed in earlier threads, changing the name of the Zindra Help Vortex to a more descriptive name will achieve better discoverability for Residents that seek an Adult content sandbox.     Today, a search for "Adult Sandbox", does not return results for the Zindra Help Vortex.  To promote discoverability of the Vortex, we will rename Zindra Help Vortex to Vortex Adult Sandbox and will let you know once this is published. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very good!

This will bring better clarity for everyone on the purpose of Vortex, and I am sure much more traffic too.  It will also help Zindra. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This move is an insult to the community that has started and run this region, a devaluing of their efforts and hard work, and demonstrates a total lack of concern for marketing, and for the actual mission of the Vortex and for the visions of anyone else involved.  ZHV is not just a sandbox and was never designed as such. Maybe people should research the projects they are trying to undermine.

Further callousnes has been demonstrated by not even consulting with the actual Vortex staff that manage this region. Instead, a few complaints in this forum from a minority of individuals, at least one of who has publicly stated they want to end the Vortex (on record) is taken more seriously than the many people that manage the region, whio care about its health,  and the countless who enjoy its benefits.

This is the exact opposite of bringing residents forward. This is squashing talent and is reprehensible. This is against everything SL is supposed to represent. This is destructive in nature because it takes away from residents in a cavalier manner. The theory about searchability is one thing...but its not the only thing. A wise leader takes all factors into account. Voices have been shut out of this conversation, and bias has been shown to favour of a select few.....in inworld meetings AND in this very forum.

What is the point of contributing anything in these outlets when items are ignored, viewpoints dismissed and hard work devalued? LL needs to recognize the difference between positive movements and negative ones, between constructive projects and destructive actions. You don't need to tear down a house to build a new one. And Ive seen a lot being torn down lately. This is a behavior that destroys trust and many built-up relationships. Its unprofessional, unecessary and quite amateurish.

The more generic name being suggested removes the 'Zindra' element for no good reason (its not ALL about search engines, you know)  and only undermines the pre-existing marketing benefit of a recognized brand.ZHV was alwasy part of Zindra, and thats an integral part of its IDENTITY. Identity has value. This move also takes away the marketing weight of the Zindra name in general, so all Zindrans should think about that. Like it or not, ZHV has been a very good entry point for people to adult mainland or adult SL in general.

NOTE: I find it fascinating that 4 premium sandboxes were created with the following names; Bicker, Colborne, Goyer, Teagano.....What do thsoe names mean? ...how are they 'searchable'? No attempt was even made to connect those 4 regions w/ Vortex in any way. This seems part of a unilateral decision..and so much of the community has been ignored in a  selective manner.

The LL rep we have been dealing has himself said that this 'name change issue' is not very important to him.

Yet it is very important to others.

So...are we to assume that something of great importance to many residents has no value because it is of littke importance to LL rep?

I oppose this forced action in the strongest possible terms. Many have been devalued and their work, trivialized to the point of extinction. SL.....wake up.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to echo Gina's comments.  Once again people who have put alot of effort and energy into helping promote AC are completely undermined.  If the problem is search under 'Adult' - how exactly does removing Zindra from the name help promote discoverability?  I'm scratching my head coming up with the connection on that one...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why change the name to something that is already knew? Why just dont add search tags to make the search easier and more efficient? Vortex staff like this name, we feel the sandbox as a part of zindra.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to be clear,  the name will be "Vortex Adult Sandbox".  Vortex is still mentioned in the name.  Also, the 4 premium sims are only open to premium accounts and not accessible to the entire Resident population.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Removing 'Zindra' only reduces the viability of that name, including in search. Less Zindra stuff? hmm......

Adding 'sandbox' is misleading because ZHV is more than sandbox, intentionally so (mission)

ZHV is rated A...its in DG..its well known...its MARKETED....you dont actually need the word 'adult' in its title. Its practically redundant.

Above it all, you are creating a more generic name, and thats not always a good thing. Appeal goes down. Branding is lost. Yes, lost.

The detriment of this move outwieghs any perceived theoretical benefit and let's not forget the total INORGANIC way this decision was resached, and forced upon a population. Countering arguments against this idea have been ignored in favour of an agenda.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personnaly, I like the names Zindra & Adult together, no Vortex. Sounds like a place ya get lost in or swept up in, or pardon the pun, sucked into. Let's do Adult Zindra, or Adult Zindra Help. Something sticks with the letters AZ. First and last letters, encompass all in between. This should render good results in search engine, kills porn and is socially more acceptable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be consistent. Bicker, Colborne, Goyer, Teagano ae not in any way descriptive region names and no attempt has been made to connect them with pre-exisitng Vortex...which COULD help these new premium regions become popular. Again, no attempt made to even talk to Vortexians about such ideas. Voices ignored. Residents' work devalued.

The claim to work with more of the community is an empty one when, in fact, community is being openly disenfranchised, for the sake of search engine theory?

Region names versus parcel names? Be consistent. One day I hear complaints about what people find or dont find in Map Search as a really big issue. The next day, Map Search is trivial and its regular Search that matters.

The right, ethical and community HELPING thing would be to keep ZHV as is, and maybe even add 'Zindra' names to those 4 new regions: Bicker, Colborne, Goyer, Teagano...so there is more Zindra, not less. They are all adult. Do people really search 'adult sandbox'?  Is that even a factor when compared to the current standing situation that is a recognized branded name? 

In the end, Zindra is part of the name because it is perfectly descriptive and perfectly expalins that ZHV is a Zindra-related institution. Even if 'Zindra' is cosmetic or archaic to some (its all Adult, right?) it's a positive element, not a misleading one.

(this is unlike the recent fiasco where the adult hub was named Zindra Prime, East, West, etc...which ended up being too misleading. Unlike that situation, Zindra makwes ultimate SENSE here as part of Vortex name)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would think that promoting discovery of the adult mainland ( I think it is still named Zindra ??)

would be much better served by naming the sandbox - Adult Mainland Zindra Sandbox or some variation thereof

 

The marketing done based on 'Vortex' is recoverable if that element of the name is removed

The marketing done based on the name Zindra is not

 

If the term Zindra is going to continually be devalued as a marketing name & tool ...

do it properly !

Rename the continent & engage in a fresh & major marketing initiative based on the new name.

 

Rather than derail this thread, I intend to start another thread addressing the devaluing of the name Zindra

by what I consider misuse of groups using that name & purporting to speak for Zindra & Zindrans.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Urcilnia Pyrithea wrote:

  If the problem is search under 'Adult' - how exactly does removing Zindra from the name help promote discoverability?  I'm scratching my head coming up with the connection on that one...

I think the idea is that if you're looking for a public Adult LL sandbox, you're more likely to find it under the new name than the old one, and that removing "Zindra" from the name not only helps avoid causing confusion for people who're looking for Zindra (either the continent or as a synonym for Adult Content), find  the one place on the map called "Zindra" and arrive there by mistake, but also makes it clear to people that it's an amenity available to all Adult SL -- which is what I hope it's supposed to be.

I'm puzzled about discoverability, though, for a different reason.

How does someone who is in want of the various amenities and assistance the Vortex has to offer discover that's where to find them?   I've plugging various terms into search and, other than "speedbuilding," I'm not having much luck. Certainly someone looking for an "adult sandbox," "building classes" or "mentoring" wouldn't easily find the Vortex by using search.   They wouldn't even find it by looking for Zindra Sandbox   with only Adult checked (they'd find the group, though not the place, with Mature checked too).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Minor, but it might be nice, even if the parcel name is "Vortex Adult Sandbox" or whatever gets picked, to rearrange the region name slightly to "Sandbox Vortex  - Adult" or something like that. That'll make it easier to find for people using the map's search box, LL sandbox regions are traditionally named that way. The regular web search looks like it's happy with the words in any order.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://sites.google.com/site/zindrabusiness/home/four-corners-of-zindra

This was the initial proposal by  Ginette.....if you  see  Zindra is highlighted in  very aspect...and she has  thought this out  to  accomodate mostly everyones needs....and we were  making progress with the Zindra Help  Vortex..with  speed builds..and the help lamp. I have attendteded numerous cals for help.. so has the Vortex staff. This name change proposal seems asine to  me.....and more a personal  grudge attack to undermine someones hard work. The Four Corners Proposal.. will be lost  if this name change takes effect. I just  wanna add that  poeple have commented and said thier views here.. but  no one has  took the trouble to  do what  Ginette has.....its easy to sit at  your keyboard and type unconstructive comments....saddly  LL has been  listening to the later then  to the people who are working towards a better Adult SL....

 

I am  not  entirely sure if my  rant here is goona be  given  any  consideration. I firmly  belive the name change has got no bearing on making the sand box more accessabile. Its just LL giving into  constant bickering by some resident wanting to  wreck what  a few good people are trying to do.

In conclusion..i feel sad for LL as theyare goona lose good hardwroking residents who  are contantly feeling unappreciated for their contributions....

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember very well the day you arrived, Voodoo. Stories like yours were wonderful to hear (and still are). For those who, amazingly, claim that Vortex 'doesnt need marketing' (go read the most recent chat log from the ACUG meeting and let your jaw drop), those peoepl have a limited if not nonexistant understanding of organic marketing over time. Those people are only thinking from a very small, simple perspective and probably havent looked beyond the next quarter.They don't think about stories like Voodoo's.

Vortex, like a lot of the initiatives started by Zindra Expo group and the community, have benefitted from hard work and endless marketing, inworld and offworld that have little to do with SL's search or Map. In fact, Vortex has done well even before it ever was listed in DG.  People (like Voodoo!) respond to these attractions, and if if they discover an intelligent, professional and sophisticated atmosphere, they will stay, invest and become involved. Why? Because we learn to apepal to ADULTS. They will be retained. Just another example of how thinking beyond merchant malls and innfohubs gets you actual retention. Actual people with time, money and talent to contribute.

It is marketing suicide to reduce a brand to something generic. Should we rename Inspire Space Park to Floaty Planets Place? Or Second Life into 'Virtual World'? Brand matter. They are hooks.

Oh, and don't forget the obvious relation to Zindra. Voodoo's disocvery path highlights that very well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vlad, LL has already lost many good hardworking residents over the past few months. During the early days of ZEXPO 2011's buildup, for example, many new faces were coming to the table. Not to mention the growth that resulted from Art Maze and other projects (including Vortex!) . Much of that excitement and momentum has been reversed. (ACUG meetings less often and blank meeting agendas are a clear sign) It's painfiully easy to see the element that supported this decline, because its the same element that has been trying to undo projects from the beginning and are touting the same claims now as they were then.

Note: replacing/alienating good hardworking residents with new fans is not actually a growth move. Smart progress keeps everyone at the table. Yes, it may be harder to lead this way....but there is nothing admirable abt lazy solutions. Residents deserve better. A decent virtual world with its eye towards the future, deserves better.

This entire name change debacle sneakily popped up off-topic in another, very subversive thread and it was petty then as it is now. It's technically a 'destructive' proposal'. I don't mean that emotionally, but technically in that it strives to undermine or ruin other people's ideas., rather than offer positive additions. Destructive proposals are generally disallowed in normal brainstorming sessions or any group idea-sharing activity for one reason: such proposals devalue group members and alienate them. It's very bad business practice (especially in such a social business where the 'groups' are really a large aspect) to make these group dynamic mistakes.

Corporate winds change, of course. What seems like policy now could be light comedy in a month.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. I agree that the Zindra element, if removed, is the most unrecoverable, DT. The fact that certain entities so keenly want to remove the Zindra element makes you really wonder. Recenty, many many of us raised the alarm (including you!) when a certain Estate was using Zindra in its region naming. That was handled well, ultimately. Now we have a region that IS Zindran and there is a call to remove the Zindra name there? Makes no sense whatsover. Should we conclude that someone wants NO PLACE to have the Zindra name, excpet maybe one place? A place that maybe they own? Hmmm

2. The 'Vortex' element is basically a way to create a unique, memorable, specifc brand.......pretty basic idea, really..a hook.

Let's not forget about the 'Help' element. Zindra Help Vortex.

That's the actual name of the organisation.

If anything, we should rename the region to be that fully: Zindra Help Vortex.  This hits all key points and is most descriptive. Its warm, friendly and Help is far more sensible than Sandbox, which is limiting.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wondering when you start doing things again for the people using second life instead of doing things like renaming sims with great names... Also bring back last names, continue working on the 1.x viewer, stop the 2.x/3.x viewer and bring back the Lindens who where fired about a year ago..

Melvin

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The lab's intent to rename the sim to "Vortex Adult Sandbox" is not all bad. I appreciate that the Vortex name has been retained, and I believe the word "Adult" can be a positive addition. I would echo comments above that Vortex is not a sandbox, but a mentoring and support site. The sandbox is an important enabling tool, but should not be a key element of the message that we place in front of prospective new users when they see us in search.

But I cannot see how removing the word "Zindra" from the site's name serves any purpose for the lab or it's users. The stated objective of the name change is improved clarity, not increased exclusivity for the arena or the disassociation of Vortex and its team from the continent. Several variations on the name that still contain the word Zindra have been mentioned above and these are crystal clear. I would urge the lab to be open-minded in considering their use. If none of these seemed suitable, I will add a few more to the list.

Consider:

  • Zindra Vortex: Help, Mentoring and Adult Sandbox
  • Zindra Vortex: Help Center and Adult Sandbox
  • Zindra Vortex: Beginner's Help and Adult Sandbox
  • Zindra Vortex: SL Help and Adult Sandbox
  • Zindra Vortex: Training, Events & Adult Sandbox
  • Zindra Vortex: Help and Mentoring in Adult Sandbox

I am certain that the contributors to this forum and the members of the Vortex team can add several more bullet points to this list. It is inconceivable to me that at least one of the choices in the final list would not be sufficiently clear to eliminate all of the concerns others have raised to support this change.  I would suggest that we compile a list of names right here and let the lab indicate whch are acceptable. The Vortex Team, who have put heart and soul into this site, should be given the option of of selecting the site's final name from this list (I would exclude myself from this decision). I think this is only fair and is a proper acknowledgment of the good work that the team has, and still does, perform every day.

This has been a bit of a tempest in a teapot.  Perhaps, if the Vortex team and the lab agree, we can put it to rest quickly without unnecessarily alienating good people any further than we already have. Vlad has a right to rant, and LL should listen.



  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Ginette Pinazzo wrote:

People find it because we market it.

Plain and simple.

And yes, that takes work.

There is a bigger world than SL Search and Map Search.

How do you market it, though?  Please explain how someone who doesn't attend ACUG meetings, doesn't read this sub-forum (which has only been around a few weeks) and doesn't read various blogs is likely to be aware of  the Vortex and what it has to offer other than by looking for Zindra on the map and ending up at the Vortex by accident.

I am genuinely interested to know the process by which someone starts by saying, "I'm interested in finding help with such-and-such"   and ends up saying "I'll go to the Zindra Help Vortex because I understand that's a good place to find it".   One way, of course, might be on the advice of a friend.   Another is via the Destination Guide.  What other ways are there*?

*ETA -- Voodoo found it by looking for something in the wiki.  I doubt that can be the normal method, though, since, in my experience, anyway, a lot of people rarely use the wiki even when it's the obvious place to look (e.g. for advice on what a particular LSL function does).

 @BBQBill --You say "the Vortex is not a sandbox," but the Destination Guide says "The Zindra Help Vortex is a great place to experiment, learn and develop your Second Life experience. This full-featured sandbox, mentor and outreach center is reachable only ..." and the Zindra Vortex Group's description starts, "Zindra's first full-featured Sandbox, Mentor and Outreach Center. Experiment and develop your Second Life experience on adult mainland".   Where would you suggest a non-premium member who wants to build in an adult sandbox go?  To the Vortex or one of the private Adult sandboxes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be much more interested in understanding where the Vortex visitors end up after having gone there as there is/was no information on how to get to Zindra and what can be found there at Vortex. In reality ZHV has little to no connection to Zindra the continent and therefore the name change is timely.

 

Also Vortex was created as, and is a sandbox. Any instance on anything else makes it even more right for the owner, Linden Lab, to highlight what it is through the name change.

 

For a select few to insist on keeping a shared resource to themselves because of the superior marketing is just slapping the rest of community in the face. If you want such an exclusive and special experience, the group leaders are free to purchase a full region and set up camp there. You can name it accordingly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. I am not going to give you a class on marketing. Youd need to pay for that. Please do not feign ignorance anymore and act as if you do not comprehend such things. You run a business. You know what marketing is and can do, both inworld and offworld.

2. The wikis rank very very high in Google. Check it out. I get a lot of people coming to my own sim DIRECTLY from offworld sources. It happens all the time.

3. The rest of your questioning makes little sense and really seems self-contradictory. the many instances of 'Zindra's first full-featured Sandbox, Mentor and Outreach Center.' answer all of your questions already. It's not just a sandbox. That is made clear in every instance of Vortex being listed. BBQ's claim is 100% vindicated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...