Void Singer Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Several changes in forums were requested... CTUG for this week has been canceled, with the note that the forums are the appropriate place to discuss forum changes.Sooooo.... Let's discuss. Are expectations being met? Has consistency improved? do you feel like your concerns are being heard and responded to appropriately? Speak up and be heard =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knowl Paine Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Yes, I feel that concerns are being heard. My expectations have not been met, but I'm holding the bar up high. A thread I created about expanding the Employment category was met with little fan-fare. A reason against the idea was that a "demand" for expanding the category was not evident from the number of posting in the current category. This type of thinking appears to be putting the cart in front of the horse. Demand is created by venture. Expand the category, provide plenty of sub-categories that cover the popular known professions in SL and let time decide if the idea will work. CTUG cancelled? And who knew that Thanksgiving would arrive.... Again!, this year. We need economist to predict that winter will arrive each year and effect the price of fuel, I'm sure 90% of Residents were just as surprised that Thanksgiving was here; we should cut the Lab some slack because nobody could have seen this coming. How can they plan for events that pop out of the blue like holidays always do. Who knows; tomorrow could be Easter. A woman who sat next to me on the subway, farted; the wind of change made me move to the other side of the train. I've never liked to be called a User. The word is derogatory in many forms, a new word that will better represent the participants should be considered. To cancel your own meeting says something I'm not ready to say here. As has been recently stated "LL has plenty of food on their plate" The ball is in their court (as it always has been). Some of my Winds of Change ideas are too radical to post here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Changes happen all the time. And with each change there is resistance. Resistance is the only thing that never changes. So what changes are we talking about? Oh and the only wind that counts where I live is those Santa Ana's.........they are fierce too during fire season. :matte-motes-big-grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Singer Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 Peggy Paperdoll wrote: [...] So what changes are we talking about?[...] the requested/highlighted at the most recent CTUG hour, and refrenced in threads in this sub forum specifically, but others brought up recently in regards to the forum are welcome as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudolphUkka Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 My * expectations of * LL are being * met, but then if you expect * all, and you get * all, then it's not * surprising. Lexie must have popped in to Torley's * "new staff tutorials" to * explain how to * deal with annoying * "user" comments that reveal * corporate inadequacies and naivety. Her advice is * incorporated in a * video: *** Rudi *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Thank you for the heads up on the cancellation, Void. Interesting that they had already scheduled it for Wednesday, I assumed to accommodate the holiday on Thursday, and I planned to attend. Oh well. I see no date for the next one posted (yet). No, my expectations have not been met. They are not outrageous and I have suggested them both at the last CTUG, here in Feedback, and on Rodvik's SLum board. 1) The Community Manager should introduce him/herself to us. Post an OP under General Discussions or Feedback, I do not care where. How about a blog post? Also, please use a Linden name, not Linden Lab. Linden Lab feels so...antiseptic. 2) Treat all spammers the same. Do not spam yourself (as Linden Lab) or allow special invited guests to spam if you are going to police other residents differently. Two rules and only one set made public. That is unfair. If we are, as you say, the residents who create the community, let us do so. 3) Call us 'Clients' or 'Residents' not 'Users'. Please. 4) Accept both positive and constructive negative feedback. Some clients were suspended or banned for providing negative feedback. Please do not act like Hitler or Stalin. 5) I would like to see periodic updates (once/month is fine) posted here telling us what you have read here and acted upon or not and why. Then, I feel that you are really listening to us. Right now, other than a recent permaban being reversed (after posting to Rodvik), nothing has changed. 6) All warnings, suspensions, and bans that resulted in the recent implementation of the Vampire subforum should be reversed and eliminated from the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Venus Petrov wrote: 3) Call us 'Clients' or 'Residents' not 'Users'. Please. But..but...to the new CM you are a user. You mean nothing to him/her. We don't even know who the CM is. Zero respect for his/her 'user' base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Storm Clarence wrote: Venus Petrov wrote: 3) Call us 'Clients' or 'Residents' not 'Users'. Please. But..but...to the new CM you are a user. You mean nothing to him/her. We don't even know who the CM is. Zero respect for his/her 'user' base. OK. This 'user' feels 'abused'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Venus Petrov wrote: 2) Treat all spammers the same. Do not spam yourself (as Linden Lab) or allow special invited guests to spam if you are going to police other residents differently. Two rules and only one set made public. That is unfair. If we are, as you say, the residents who create the community, let us do so. I've already RICed as spam (citing the full text of the CG that it violates) the newest thread in the Games sub-Forum, the beginning of LLs upcoming "Best Games in Second Life" program (officially starting November 29). For some reason, I highly doubt it will come down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Griffin Ceawlin wrote: Venus Petrov wrote: 2) Treat all spammers the same. Do not spam yourself (as Linden Lab) or allow special invited guests to spam if you are going to police other residents differently. Two rules and only one set made public. That is unfair. If we are, as you say, the residents who create the community, let us do so. I've already RICed as spam (citing the full text of the CG that it violates) the newest thread in the Games sub-Forum, the beginning of LLs upcoming "Best Games in Second Life" program (officially starting November 29). For some reason, I highly doubt it will come down. Dear Linden Lab, Could the CG's be revised to fit reality? A little transparency please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudolphUkka Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Griffin Ceawlin wrote: Venus Petrov wrote: 2) Treat all spammers the same. Do not spam yourself (as Linden Lab) or allow special invited guests to spam if you are going to police other residents differently. Two rules and only one set made public. That is unfair. If we are, as you say, the residents who create the community, let us do so. I've already RICed as spam (citing the full text of the CG that it violates) the newest thread in the Games sub-Forum, the beginning of LLs upcoming "Best Games in Second Life" program (officially starting November 29). For some reason, I highly doubt it will come down. It does appear to be * self-promotional * advertising, in a supposedly * discussion, rather than * commerce, forum, doesn't it. If it doesn't get * moved perhaps the * programme spammers will realise that it is the best * place to post their * threads. *** Rudi *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Wow. Someone acted on my complaint (ETA: and possibly the complaints of others). Color me surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Wow...just...wow. It may be that the one who acted did so with best intentions (and having read the published CGs). It could be reversed by another after having pointed to the 'secret' version. Let us hope this is not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 True. Those unpublished rules are killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudolphUkka Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Venus, you asked in another thread about the successes I might have had in getting in people's faces; I won't take full responsibility, but I would humbly submit that I did support Dresden's stance in several ways. *** Rudi *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudolphUkka Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Venus Petrov wrote:It may be that the one who acted did so with best intentions I am sure that this was the case. We have learned from the Spampire debacle, however, that the participants in their own downfall were not briefed adeqately - and in some cases NOT AT ALL - by LL prior to launching their promotional diatribes upon the forums, and that one in fact admitted that he received "directions" from LL part way through one of his contentious threads - and the tone of his involvement drastically reduced thereafter. It is a difficult tightrope to walk, "advertorial", being best done by using "professional" writers (I don't think we can count LL's marketing wonks in that category from what we have seen on the forums) to "interpret" (in the case of many of the Spampire principals that would be taken literally as well as figuratively) the expertise of those well versed in the subject matter chosen to be highlighted. Using amateur writers, with dubious English skills and no apparent experience of forum posting and culture has proved a disaster. If LL staff are to bundle the content then it should be done discretely (literally) in blog posts where those who are interested can comment and interaction can be minimised, rather than exposing thread initiators to ridicule as a result of their overt monomania and inability to communicate in an acceptably interesting and broadbrush manner. I can remember what were effectively campaigns by Goreans, BDSMers and even *gasp* feminists which were fought in a relatively civilised manner and served to educate and inform (as well as entertain!) those whose perception of those issues might have previously and otherwise been rather blinkered. It would be a shame if those who have something to offer forumites regarding inworld "games" were to be dissuaded from contributing as a result of poor leadership from the Community Marketing Team, particularly since Rod seems desperate to promote SL as offering games within a game to satisfy those newcomers who want to know how they can level up and face the end boss. Maybe we could invent a forum game that involved the moderators (and Rod?) in that respect . . . *** Rudi *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Singer Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 and since I started the thread I'll throw my 5$L on the pile... I'm happy to see that the privileged marketing section that was the vampire subforum has been dismantled, and I'm not aware of any more instances of unstated or differently applied rules resulting in bans, nor bans resulting from honest (if sometimes heated) feedback. heck I'm even halfway pleased to see this subforum see actual use to broaden the amount of feedback available. I am however concerned over the state of the adult forum, the recent restart of some of the privileged marketing in the new games sub forum (although now removed), and the seeming lack of a chain of command to refer to. I think this was hilighted by the double change of CTUG meeting times, which I note were made by two separate people, telling me there's still internal communication problems. I'm left with the impression that the final change reflects not wanting to deal directly with issues raised over the holidays (fair enough), but also a push towards silence from the lab, rather than acknowledgement, and I would urge whoever is in charge to consider that both the direct meeting and the more informal venue provided here work best together, and not separately, or one in place of the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudolphUkka Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Void Singer wrote: I'm not aware of any more instances of unstated or differently applied rules resulting in bans, nor bans resulting from honest (if sometimes heated) feedback. Neither Cato and Pep are permitted to post to these forums as a consequence of protests against the "new marketing" Spampire initiative, although the former is apparently prevented from accessing the internet during the initial period of her incarceration for capital crimes against a moderator (not employed by LL, I hasten to add) and the latter has informed me that he is happy not to participate here but to raise issues in an uncensored form in his blog. *** Rudi *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudolphUkka Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Void Singer wrote: I'm happy to see that the privileged marketing section that was the vampire subforum has been dismantled My first * thought was * "Hoorah!" but the * subforum is still * there. All that has * happened is that the * bloodsucking opportunists have realised that it was a * PR disaster and have reverted to ignoring these * forums, as was the case before the * debacle. * LL has now initiated * Games and "Winter" (that's Summer to me in South Afrika) subforums, presumably in preparation for * similar short-term * marketing blitzes, although a * pre-emptive strike (fuelled presumably by * over-enthusiasm and a * "first-to-market" philosophy seems to have been * removed, possibly while a full * briefing of potential principals is prepared. (Nice * alliteration eh!) Or maybe Rod has * intervened to prevent further * embarrassment and the torpedoing of the * inGameGame initiative before it has set sail. Which still leaves * stains on the * records of constructively critical contributors (more alliteration!) and a bad * taste in the mouth of innocent bystanders. *** Rudi *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I believe that the continuing ghettoization of these forum bits (winter, games, and who knows what else) will only serve to make the moderator's job more tedious. Maya, seeking a Christmas Tree, posted in the Winter subforum and it was moved to Commerce > Wanted. I anticipate increasing confusion in where to post what. When so many still cannot seem to find where to post a question (Answers is still not obvious...whatever happened to the long ago suggestion at CTUG to change it to Q & A?), why is the CM creating even more places to get it wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Singer Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 You're right, damn I missed I missed it in the listing... so much for my powers of observation eh? I noted posts from both Cato and Pep (or at least one of his accounts) in this forum since last CTUG, so if they've been banned again, that's news I missed. it's looking like my positive aren't all they cracked up to be, and the negatives are still piling up behind a wall of silence =( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Yeah, I saw that. The thread that was pulled was also reposted on the blog. Better there than here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudolphUkka Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Griffin Ceawlin wrote: Yeah, I saw that. The thread that was pulled was also reposted on the blog. Better there than here... The threatened "event" is still scheduled to take place next Tues/Wed in the Games subforum of the Events section, which is the appropriate place for information, education and entertainment, although not self-promotional advertising. This sort of thing is much easier to ignore when confined to the Linden blogs and non-people discussion forums, although the forum Guidelines should, of course, be strictly followed by contributors. Since Cato is no longer able to do so, I would like to quote the Guidelines: "If you see a post you feel violates the Community Participation Guidelines, or our Terms of Service, then please click the Report Inappropriate Content link that appears in each post, and let us know why you feel the post is inappropriate." always remembering that "the actions taken (or not taken) by Linden Lab and our moderators are at our sole discretion, and we may act without warning or explanation". *** Rudi *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Griffin Ceawlin wrote: Yeah, I saw that. The thread that was pulled was also reposted on the blog. Better there than here... Damn you, you made me post to it. :matte-motes-tongue: ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 RudolphUkka wrote: The threatened "event" is still scheduled to take place next Tues/Wed in the Games subforum of the Events section, which is the appropriate place for information, education and entertainment, although not self-promotional advertising. This sort of thing is much easier to ignore when confined to the Linden blogs and non-people discussion forums, although the forum Guidelines should, of course, be strictly followed by contributors. Because it contains self-promotional advertising and is easier to ignore when confined to the blogs is precisely why I say... better there than here. They're able to skirt the guidelines by, instead of having the "experts" themselves post, having the "Community Manager" (Linden Lab) post instead. You didn't think that this... These guidelines cover Resident participation on our Second Life community pages, which include the Second Life Blogs, Forums, ... applied to the "Community Manager"... Did you? ETA: Tried to fix formatting. What up wit' dat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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