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Innula Zenovka

Content Directories at the Zindra Vortex

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if you want to be fully involved, I suggest ruinning a class or workshop at Vortex. This is inline w/the place's mission and would show great involvement and possible results, far more than any advertising signage would. Contact any of the Vortex staff to propose class/workshop ideas (business topics and busienss topics are best suited). We are about Active Investment!

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Bill, the Zindra Directory has been been trusted to Zindra Alliance since September 2009 when it was created by Zindra Alliance.  At some point in time we had over 730 kiosks out, but due to some software bug we lost about 480 of them in 2010. 

If joining Zindra Alliance to be listed is too much for you, then the Directory is probably not for you. ;-)

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Sorry, but I have to refuse all requests to teach classes, since I just don't have time to do that and help out in three live scripting groups too, and -- given the nature of my schedule -- helping in scripting groups is a much better use of my time. So, sorry, but I can't assist.   And if I was in a position to make a regular time commitment, I think I'd be more inclined to work with one of the many established programmes, like those organised by Builders Brewery and NCI rather than try to help set up a new one.

But I don't see what running classes -- if you can get round the problems of running events in sandboxes, which people from the Vortex have described in detail at ACUG meetings -- does to remedy the problem that the one place on on the map and above sea level called Zindra doesn't really have much information there about Zindra.

 

 

 

 

 

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You want content? things like classes/workshops/contests etc ARE content. That's the real thing. That's what attracts and eventually retains. What happens AT the sim is what brings peoepl to the sim. (and Vortex's activities are fairly attarctive, Id say)

I am not in the habit of repeating, but I did say a few posts ago ZHV will add more Zindracentric info to ZHV. Complaint noted. We cant do advertising per se, but helpful info, definitely. This will be discussed at the next ZEg meeting, I'm certain. (on Wednesday). There will likely be a Vortex meeting too, very soon.

We are not blind to the current situation, that ZHV is the only real region with 'Zindra' currently in its name and have this as a priority to address. As it happens now, it's a great first-stop for many who land there, but of course it could be better!

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And I asked a few posts ago if it would be correct to assume that, if LL were to confirm that they have no particular objection to -- for example -- a scripted slideshow based on the DG being place on the Vortex because they didn't see it as advertising, you would be content to have one there.   It may be, of course, that they'd rather have something more general about Adult Content than just something about Zindra.  I don't know; I've not asked them.

I do, however, know that they've said, in this thread, that  they are"are thinking about some ways in which the space can be more open to all. Your input on how this can best be achieved is valued and appreciated. Please contribute any constructive ideas you may have on ways to make it more inclusive in this thread."

So why not share your constructive ideas here rather than unilaterally go ahead and do stuff which may, perhaps, not coincide with what LL eventually decide they think is the best way to make the place more inclusive?

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Hello Gavin. It appears that you misread my post.  I was ejected when I said something ZA leadership did not like.  I assume I am persona non grata or I would not have been ejected.  Are you telling me that I should rejoin and keep my opinions to myself so I can be listed? 

Don't misunderstand. ZA is Counter's group and he has a right to do with it what he may.  I have no problem with that.  My problem is when you claim that it is something else.  If ZA can be trusted and you are not biased or self-promoting, open the list to non-members. I'll be happy to be listed. 

In the mean time Vortex's focus is supporting users and that has nothing to do with you or your group.  If you think we need to provide a Zindra resource list I might support that, and of course ZA should be listed as one of those resources.  I would not support a filtered list, but we would need to respect LL's wishes if they have any - I do not know.

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I have already contributed constructive ideas but you keep bypassing that.

Here's a list of some ideas...again:

1. Idea: offer a class or workshop to get more involved and provide actual content

2. Idea:  take joy in the fact we will edit our material, inlcuding our large Zindra map to be more useful for those who land on ZHV 'blindly'

3. Idea: Inquire abt joining the Vortex staff! (if you want to help out w/ basic help services/mentoring or Outreach efforts adn have more of a voice)

Feel free to contribute your own ideas, of course, and remember we do not have any advertising at Vortex. We don't promote specific commercial interests or lifestyles. ZHV is very inclusive as it is now! (the public sandbox component really makes that true)

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For the record, Counter is my alt, and I thought that common knowledge by now. (He was originally created to be the bean counter only and to serve as the 2nd owner in my groups, hence the name.)

The only people who has been kicked out of ZA are people who insist on being members of the group, yet at the same time in every public meeting loudly proclaim ZA does not represent their views. In RL this kind of behavior usually results in exclusion from a group or party.

When it comes to Vortex, I frankly don't have very much opinion on what should and should not be there. I just find it a paradox, as expressed in this discussion, that there is virtually no mention of, or link to the continent it supposedly was created to serve.

I am also under the impression that Vortex is a Linden Lab supplied resource, and therefore should be accessible to everyone on the Zindra continent who can make reasonable and fair use of it. 

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I know it's horribly kludgy but I'm wondering -- if, for whatever reason, LL can't assist us directly to access the web api -- one work-round might not be for LL to supply simply the UUIDs of the textures used for the Directory Guide images, the name of the place and the url for the appropriate DG entry.   Then the slide shows could be updated every day from a central server, the same way the Open Collar vendors are.

It wouldn't work for "What's Hot" and it's not a very attractive way doing it, I know, but would it be workable?  It would still need LL's cooperation, of course.

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1. If there is not enough mention or links to the mainland at Vortex, that will be remedied asap, as Ive stated previously. This forum thread (when its constructive) can have great effects.

2. Vortex is 100% accessible to everyone on the Zindra continent and beyond! (for those who age verify).

- a place to build and experiment

- a place to help others

- a place to share knowledge and experience (classes etc)

- a place to (ultimately) become more immersed in content creation

- a place to get involved in a 'more than mature' experience (as opposed to your average chaotic sandbox!)

Its bene my pleasure to witness many accounts of people who came to Vortex and were inspired. They stayed, they created, they even moved on to SL careers. Inspiration is a big part of this. Thats the retention stories we love!

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Oh, that would be fine; the problem is that I don't think there currently are any textures for those images, and that they only exist as jpgs.  If LL had some mechanism for pushing them in-world and sharing the UUIDs, that would be great, and would get around the need for viewers to have Media enabled just to be able to see them.

Popping back to the existing Destination Guide content (requiring Media to use in a script), I now realize that a relevant API may already exist -- almost.  There's something pushing a much tighter set of elements to the "Destinations" window of viewer 3.2.  "Tighter," that is, than what we get in Search or (equivalently) on the web.  If I were a viewer developer, I could probably figure out how that works... maybe there's already a cap for what we need, if somebody knows where to look.  

That, however, raises a problem of greater importance than where we might put which slideshow:  The Destinations window in the viewer does not have an Adult category.  Obviously the category exists -- it's in the Search / web interface.  It's just somehow omitted from the Destinations window.  So that urgently needs fixing, IMHO.

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Just to be clear - We are thinking about ways to make Zindra Vortex, the public sandbox,  more open to the entire Adult community. We will collect feedback and decide wihat to do on this public linden land. 

cleardot.gif

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Hello Gavin, I am aware that Counter is your alt, but I am not aware that it is general knowledge.  Since revealing this in public is a violation of TOS, I chose not to do so. I was not aware of the bean-counter reference, and got a laugh out of it.  Thanks for that.

Referring back to my first post, my comments about ZA "not representing my view" were not expressed loudly or in public, and I never attended a ZA public meeting. I responded in ZA group chat to statements that others made. There were plenty of dissenters in that chat, as will happen in a public group.  In the LL meeting I had no intention of my comments being public.  They were given to you by an attendee and you and you chose to publish those minutes and eject me from the group.  I also never insisted on being part of ZA.  I joined as anyone else would by clicking a ZA sign.  I also didn't ask to be readmitted after ejection, although ZA is the only SL entity that I have ever been ejected from.  Again, ZA is your group and you have the right to eject anyone for any reason.  Seriously.  I only have a problem when you say that you own a trusted resource but run it like your friends list. Again, I suggest that you consider opening your list to non-members.

Promoting Zindra in general is a positive step that can contribute to user satisfaction and retention, so I agree with the idea of greater representation- but with one reservation. No one should ever own or filter the list. Not me, not you, not anyone else. I will oppose that whoever proposes it.

Finally, is Vortex inaccessible to you?  If so IM me directly and I will do whatever I can to have the lab remove any restrictions ASAP.  Obviously, you should have the same access we all have.

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Linden Lab wrote:

Just to be clear - We are thinking about ways to make Zindra Vortex, the public sandbox,  more open to the entire Adult community. We will collect feedback and decide wihat to do on this public linden land. 

Making it open to the entire Adult community is the only sensible thing to do. You should also then drop Zindra from the name, name it according to its purpose, and make it easy to find spot on from a search also in Map. 

As I have expressed before, using Vortex in the name is unfortunate, as in very many languages around the world, vortex is a negatively laden word that means something that sucks you in, drags you down and most likely kill you. 

Because it is so remote to Zindra mainland, it does not really help bring traffic to the continent, but could act as a good contributor to adult content and traffic in general. 

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This is a general reply.

 

Zindra Vortex is the "Public Adult Linden Sandbox".

Its Placement was decided by LL.  It is shows in "About Land" as "Mainland / Full  Region"(as does Arapaima).

It is part of The Zindra Area of the map and therefore part of Zindra as are Arapaima, Nelsonia though they and others  pieces are not phyically * part of the main land mass of the Zindra continent.

Why it was not placed nearer or why the vacant space between was not add as more water sims like near Arapiama is something LL would have to answer.

Why anyone might be against a "Public Adult Sandbox" I do not understand, if you dont want to use don't, others are greatful it is there. Vortex staff is simply there to try to help as best we can.

Placement of any type of destination guide or directory on linden public land is a question for primarily LL.

- - - - - -

To: "Linden Lab"

It is the "Public Adult Sandbox" since it is the only one open to All Adults that LL has provided, what it needs its to be more widely know.

I would like to this chance suggest an Adult instance "Help island"  ajacent to Arapiam between Arapaima  & Zindra Vortex and the remaining intervening Sim made in to open ocean, There by conecting a Hub, a Sandbox(with volenteer help) and a copy of LL Standard Help resources in one general area accesable to adult resdents.

If you have any feedback/suggestions for Vortex Staff please let us know.

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Gavin,

For the record - although you were incorrect in your post above I am not suggesting that you lied. We had some turbulent times back then and I suspect that you remember your reasons for ejecting me as you summed them above. My point is that tying your list to membership in a private group is a bad idea.

Bill

 

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Well, I obviously lobbied for the ability to change avatar names, and not only the display name thingy, hehe. 

 

Zindra Vortex is not physically inaccessible to me, but I, as many others feel this shared resource has been occupied by a select group of people who are adamant on using it ONLY as they see fit. I have received many complaints through Zindra Alliance from people who feel they are not welcome there at all, or even feel they have been actively blocked. 

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As far as I can see, having the only Zindra named region as a sandbox with (I assume) very little of the usual safeguards is just asking for trouble.  It's been a while since I landed in a LL sandbox but the last time I had been caged and was being spammed with particle dog **bleep** before I'd even rezzed. I certainly see no value in having people rez there when it puts them in a vulnerable position and open to griefing attacks and it isn't even attached to the continent and contains no mention of anything to do with what is available on the continent as it appears the group intent on managing it have never thought this important and finally, most people who are checking out Zindra are not really interested in a sandbox.  So the current situation to me seems to be a fail all round.

Why hasn't mosh south been reverted to Zindra and why cannot it have tp signs to the premium and public access sandboxes, perhaps a tp to the soon to be ferry service LL are going to put in to cruise around the river , the LL provided sights on Zindra and perhaps even touch to access signs which will direct the users to the ZA and ZE web homepages, the Zindra directory and Qie's map.

None of this should raise a sweat from anyone and shouldn't take any more than a couple of hours (even at LLs glacial pace of working) to do. (ok, I admit the ferry might take a little longer).  Whilst it would be nice to have something more interactive and attractive to anyone who comes to Zindra via searching for Zindra, for the moment something basic and a bit more welcoming than the hell that is a LL sandbox would be extremely appropriate I'd suggest.

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Hello Gavin,

I am not aware of anyone who follows the rules who is not welcome, and I would be very happy to follow up energetically on any instance you learn of. 

That said, some people insist on fighting battles or rezzing griefer toys, but if they are banned it is only because LL banned them.  Vortex staff does not have access to that function. As far as those who "feel this shared resource has been occupied by a select group of people who are adamant on using it ONLY as they see fit," we do insist that people see fit to follow the rules. No harassment, no weapons, no selling, etc.  Other than that I am not aware of restrictions.

Do me a favor and refer those people to me, Hypathia, or Huntress. Vortex is open to all adults if they respect the few rules that we enforce.  I know we are all adamant about that.

Bill

 

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Hypatia Meili wrote:

Why it was not placed nearer or why the vacant space between was not add as more water sims like near Arapiama is something LL would have to answer.

I'm not sure it's been mentioned here, so: there's some advantage to having sandboxes surrounded by void.  It prevents out-of-control scripts from spreading self-replicating objects across the continent, accidentally or not.

This is presumably somewhat less a problem for the new Premium-only sandboxes; it's been known to happen on the sims around Sandbox Island, which is (now) attached to the Nova Albion and Bay City regions and the Sansara continent in general, but evidently that hasn't been such a serious problem that they were kept separate from the continent by void.

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Hello Qie,

I agree, I have supported Vortex being physically seperate for that reason.  I have also supported placing Vortex next to the new Premium sandboxes so that non-premium users might be inspired by what they see there and premium members can go directly to Vortex, but LL decided against that.

Bill

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how in heavens name is Vortex not ' open to the entire Adult community'.....?

if you want to hear feedback on positive ideas, lets identify the issue first.

Seems to be 100% open to anyone who is age-verified.

The Vortex has bene doing well since its first day. Its name has never been an issue. A Vortex is a central area, around which things revolve. The name is good branding, Id argue.

Build upon the success rather than undermine it. Pretty simple.

1. A little more marketing never hurt:

2. more involvement from class-and workshop leaders.

3. Empowering the staff to actually manage more effectivelty is an obvious idea too.

4. If some of the posters here woukd seek to support Vortex and get involved, rather than try to change whats been working........there's your best idea, no?

 

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blocked from waht exactly? how on earth has anyone bene blocked from the Vortex? in any way?

Please outline the issue mroe specifcially so we can see clearly what you are trying to address

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Unfortunatly some seem to see this 'physical' set up as making it not part of Zindra. I dont think water between it and Arapaima  like between Arapaima and the main part of Zindra would be to much of a problem that way. Not that I see why people seem to think they need to be able to fly across the conecting space.

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Cast your memories back a while. The reason Zindra sim is no more is simple: some wanted advertizing there (a mall, a lottery, etc) while others (and ultimately LL agreed with the latter) wanted informational content only (as people are suddenly proposing now, ironically) UNTIL a better more dynamic use of the land could be decided. Eventually, a   more dynamic use WAS being developed, but it all fell apart with the new LL scheme, so Zindra sim became a distant memory.

Mosh South could just become like any other land, and someone could buy it. A missed opportunity indeed.

You want it to return? What you seem to want is exactly what was there befroe. Basic info content.

Zindra Vortex is so named as it is/was part of the original Four Corners progarm. At this stage, the name is branded and has marketing value. And it is part of mainland and can that aspect can easily be made more clear with soem easy non-adv ertizing upgrades to our informational content there.

I doubt anyone is coming to Vortex and becoming so confused they cant use the Search to find something else if they need to. This problem seems more than a bit manufactured. Why not support Vortex and 'love it' ....and suggest other things in ADDITION that may complement it. Thts how positive idea-sharing can work.

 

 

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