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Does RL gender matter when dating someone?


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yep think you have, :)) teasing, however I try niot to be cynical, I assume all here tell truth till I find out opposit, but what we are talking about here is relationships, to role play a part is not a relationship unless you go that way then truth is a must surely how can you build trust without it??? So all I am saying basically is that if you say all lie here because all is just role play people can never have a relationship here, and to me that is sad, Some good friendships have been formed here and the potential for more. how can that happen if all is lies????? or am I being nieve here

Higher

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Higher Enoch wrote:

if you say all lie here because all is just role play people can never have a relationship here, and to me that is sad, Some good friendships have been formed here and the potential for more. how can that happen if all is lies?????

There is a significant difference between understanding that lies are not unconditionally bad, and that everything is a lie. Suggest re-reading.

Lies occur normally, day-to-day. People deliberately lie to themselves and even employ others to deliberately lie to them on a regular basis (e.g. TV, friendship groups, employee-manager appraisal). I don't think that's a bad thing, and I don't think it gets in the way of forming relationships (for an example, observe followers of polarised political or religious parties (far-left or far-right); they're all capable of forming relationships, but their truthfulness isn't what brings them together).

There's a bunch of statistics on how often people lie to each other during the 'flirtation' stage of RL relationships. Most polls I've seen put it commonly put at about 60-90% of all verbal communication during this phase is at least exaggeration, with some lesser 'lies of omission'. I would say that while SL continues this behaviour (and on some level enables it), it doesn't stand too far from being equivilent with the commonplace lying found inside relationships that never enter SL at all.

Conclusion is that lying will occur regardless of where you look for relationships.

Now, is this lying bad? I wouldn't say so. In RL, it still leads to overall population growth and a fairly wide-spread occurance of weddings, co-habitation and other 'desired' outcomes. In SL, people still partner and achieve great things, even if they've never seen a single image of their loved ones. I've celebrated the lives of people whom I'd never seen and never met; people who still manage to affect my life greatly today, even though they're no longer by my side.

I don't see this issue as being one of gender, nor one of lying. It's just an example of the changing face of interpersonal dynamics in this new millenium. There's a lot for everyone to learn.

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yes yes I get all that, but I think the start of the thread was about gender change in avi in sl?  and if it matters, well no not at all, if you are not having a relationship with them, or just a couple of friends having fun but then the friends would know it a gender change ??? but if it is someone starting to form a friendship and they klie continues how can it be a friendship a deep oone I mean. if you dont know this information?????

 jane

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Unable to parse your reponse. Assumed question is:-

"How can the friendship be a deep one without first knowing their gender?"

---

This is quite easy. Your brain fills in the gaps in your knowledge with what you can perceive. Example being new-born babies, whose biological, physical gender can be incorrect as much 50% of the time by people unfamiliar with the child. People will cast their perceptions of gender on to people by default; thin golden hair and pale skin (for example) could lead to many people assuming the newborn is biologically female.

With adults and avatars this differs slightly, but the principle is the same. People will most commonly mentally 'assign' other people a gender in-lieu of the truth. Assuming this perception is comforting to both parties (eg. assuming someone appearing androgenous/post-gender doesn't get offended when you refer to them as "she" or "he", and take offence or correct you) then the friendship can more or less continue without this knowledge. There's lots of other things to talk about, and I would be surprised if anyone requested the dropping of pants to confirm.

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:0 yes I know, as I said if it all about in sl it is fine I dont care either way, but when they want to take it to rl then I am afraid yes I want to know, I would not consider a friend in rl that I didnt knoww basics of and that I could trust. acquantence maybe, but friend? they are hard won with me in sl or rl.

Higher

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I know this subject is a re-tread, but oh well. If people want to be the opposite gender in SL, more power to them. To some people it doesn't matter, but to some it does. If it's important to someone that the person be the gender they say, then I think they have to understand that some people like to be the opposite gender, they can't just assume. Some people are merely extensions of their real life selves in SL, but some people really come to SL to become a totally different person from what they are in RL. I think those people should - and many do - put in their profile that they are strictly SL only.

If it's that important to someone that people be the gender they say they are, then they can ask them to voice verify or cam verify. When I was single, 99% of the men I dated asked to voice, and a couple asked me to cam (to verify, mind you, nothing dirty lol). It didn't bother me, I have a pleasant voice, and I'm cute in RL lol.

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Tracy Redangel wrote:

I know this subject is a re-tread, but oh well. If people want to be the opposite gender in SL, more power to them. To some people it doesn't matter, but to some it does. If it's important to someone that the person be the gender they say, then I think they have to understand that some people like to be the opposite gender, they can't just assume.

I completely agree.  People just can't assume everyone else approaches SL from the same perspective they do, because then, once the "truth" is revealed, they get all bent out of shape and claim they've been lied to when, in reality, they were the ones that were lying to themselves.

 


Tracy Redangel wrote:

Some people are merely extensions of their real life selves in SL, but some people really come to SL to become a totally different person from what they are in RL. I think those people should - and many do - put in their profile that they are strictly SL only.

I disagree... I believe the impetus should be on people not to assume anything in SL is as it appears, unless told otherwise.  And even then, that supposed information should be taken with a grain of salt, since there's no way to really know the truth.

 


Tracy Redangel wrote:

If it's that important to someone that people be the gender they say they are, then they can ask them to voice verify or cam verify.

Unfortunately, that's not always going to work.  It's not unheard of for a guy to be completely able to pull off looking and sounded like a girl in RL, much less in voice or on cam.  Unless, of course, they're willing to show their genitalia right off the bat... which I'd have to think isn't very conducive to developing a sustainable relationship, though I'm sure it happens occasionally.

Of course, then there's the question of when to disclose?  Are you supposed to direct some cute avatar to the webcam you have between your legs at the very moment that they say hello?

 


Tracy Redangel wrote:

When I was single, 99% of the men I dated asked to voice, and a couple asked me to cam (to verify, mind you, nothing dirty lol). It didn't bother me, I have a pleasant voice, and I'm cute in RL lol.

You tramp... lol.

...Dres

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Dres wrote

I completely agree.  People just can't assume everyone else approaches SL from the same perspective they do, because then, once the "truth" is revealed, they get all bent out of shape and claim they've been lied to when, in reality, they were the ones that were lying to themselves.

 I agree always assume that nothing is real in sl, however if a relationship has been formed and they have been lied to yes, they should get upset. and take better care next time.

 

Dres write

Unfortunately, that's not always going to work.  It's not unheard of for a guy to be completely able to pull off looking and sounded like a girl in RL, much less in voice or on cam.  Unless, of course, they're willing to show their genitalia right off the bat... which I'd have to think isn't very conducive to developing a sustainable relationship, though I'm sure it happens occasionally. Of course, then there's the question of when to disclose?  Are you supposed to direct some cute avatar to the webcam you have between your legs at the very moment that they say hello?

 Well yes, it is all about the building of trust before you get to the web cam voice thing, in a relationship. and to get trust dont you need truth??? or a certain amount of it. while sayiing believe nothing and assume all is not as it seems is fine for playing sl, building a relationship to a friendship truth and trust have to come into it, and if you have those is there any need for web cams and voice??????

Its a hard one alright:)

Jane

 

 

 

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:



Tracy Redangel wrote:

Some people are merely extensions of their real life selves in SL, but some people really come to SL to become a totally different person from what they are in RL. I think those people should - and many do - put in their profile that they are strictly SL only.

I disagree... I believe the impetus should be on people
not
to assume anything in SL is as it appears, unless told otherwise.  And even then, that supposed information should be taken with a grain of salt, since there's no way to really know the truth.

 

 Oh of course no one should assume anything, but ideally (which really doesn't go far in SL, does it? lol) I think people should be honest about their expectations.


Tracy Redangel wrote:

If it's that important to someone that people be the gender they say they are, then they can ask them to voice verify or cam verify.

Unfortunately, that's not always going to work.  It's not unheard of for a guy to be completely able to pull off looking and sounded like a girl in RL, much less in voice or on cam.  Unless, of course, they're willing to show their genitalia right off the bat... which I'd have to think isn't very conducive to developing a sustainable relationship, though I'm sure it happens occasionally.

Of course, then there's the question of when to disclose?  Are you supposed to direct some cute avatar to the webcam you have between your legs at the very moment that they say hello?

 

I'm sure that level of subterfuge can be (and probably has been) pulled off, but for most people voice verification puts them at ease. Oh hell some men would ask to see boobies 2 minutes into the converstation, which of course lead me to abrubtly shutting off the camera and telling them where to go. Except maybe one time when I had little too much wine
o.O
. Don't judge me!!

Tracy Redangel wrote:

When I was single, 99% of the men I dated asked to voice, and a couple asked me to cam (to verify, mind you, nothing dirty lol). It didn't bother me, I have a pleasant voice, and I'm cute in RL lol.

You tramp... lol.

...Dres

I was only a couple of times, and I don't really remember
o.O

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Personally, it does not matter to me as I will *not* be getting RL-involved with my SL playmates :-)  I don't say that to be mean, I just have a personal rule (reinforced by having been in SL since 2005 on my Main) that I don 't mix RL and SL.

Now - for people who *do* want to mix SL & RL, it seems pretty important.  Therefore, honesty is the best policy, especially if the word "relationship" is being batted around.

Deliberate deception really sets people off, justifiably so.

Then again, you will also run into phobic people who will have issues with anyone who has an avatar that is cross-gendered from real-life. There really is no "persuading" someone who has such a visceral, gut-level negative reaction - so the best policy would be to be very careful of people who have Gender Verification groups or related blurbs in their profile. 

SL is a big universe, for everyone who has Issues about RL gender, there is someone else who doesn't.

Personally, I have the mentality that "SL is not Facebook".  I have FB for people I involve in my Real Life and SL for people I interact with here, and I stay very up-front about keeping the two seperate and drama-free :-P

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After thinking about it, I created an inworld Group called "Gender Safe - RL Not An Issue" with the following group charter;

"This group is open to Avatars who just don't care about anyone else's Real Life gender. We react to you as you present yourself and support Tolerance of everyone's enjoyment of SL are privacy rights"

I dunno if it will catch on or not, but maybe if we folks who *don't* really bother about Gender identify ourselves, it will make things a little easier for new Residents to build a social network.

 

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it sure should not matter.

Some people talk about "honesty" and all that and would be mad if their lover's SL avatar were different than their RL gender.

So, instead of putting forth any effort to date in RL, they get lazy and resort to dating in SL. I know some people may have serious physical problems that would inhibit RL dating but I imagine a lot of SL'ers are able-bodied enough to create a REAL LIFE social network where they might find themselves dating or even romance.Their RL prospects might not look like ken or Barbie but one must meet in the middle, in their league.

So getting on the web and feeling disappointed when their cyber-lover is not really a man/woman reaks of desparation.

Knowing someone's RL gender in relationship matters is easy - If they want to have sex and run, it is probably a man in RL. If they want to wait and be friends, it is probably a female in RL.

 

Besides that, even if their avatar and RL body are the same gender, standards of dating should go way beyond that.

I can hear it now. "Yeah, he is some 40 year old guy who lives at home and refuses to work, but at least he is really man" or "Yeah, she is 300 pounds, lives off section 8 and has a bunch of kids but at least it is really a woman"

 

I personally do not care about their RL gender cause I will date men or women. Each brings things to the bedroom that the other just cannot. I date people, not "genders".

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Skylar Meridoc wrote:

I know theres some people playing the opposite sex in SL. But does it normally matter to most people if they are playing the same sex as they are in RL?

I mean, i could imagine dating someone of the opposite sex in SL even if they are same sex in SL... as long as they play their "Role" right.

I normally keep SL and RL seperate, so shouldn't be a problem, right?

Aside from the predictable reaction to your use of the word 'playing', I think you have a great attitutude. :)

For me, no. It doesn't matter in the least if RL gender matches SL gender.

Your question though asks if it matters to most  people. In my observation, the answer to that is sadly yes. Just from what I've seen, it seems like most have some gender specifics about who they want at the other keyboard.

 

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It would matter to me, and it matters to some people. So, my feeling is, if your Avi is a different gender from your RL gender, and you a getting into an SL relationship, you should ask the other person if it matters.

Years ago on other forums there were relationships formed and private chat sessions which were used for "Cyber-Sex". There were always cases like this, there people had user names that appeared to be the opposite of their actual gender. (Joe Schmoe with a user name Ann Doe). They would start a relationship which would lead to Cyber-Sex in the private chat session. When the other party found out about the deception, there would be some hurt feelings and even some grossed out people.

Of course, similar things happen when people meet others in bars - from men claiming to be single when, in fact they were married to men posing as women and getting other men to have sex with them.

That is why I never picked up men in bars, had cyber sex with strangers, or have relationships on SL.

But, in answer to your question, it matters to some people, so ask before a relationship takes off.

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IMO, the key concept here is Deception.

Different people have differing levels of open-mindedness about sexuality - and when someone tramples on someone else's Limits by decieving them - drama is sure to follow.

Personally I have no issue with the gender of the typist, I am not looking to bring a SL relationship into Real Life .  For the benefit of the people who *are* - early honesty is probably the best policy.

The blessing and curse of SL is that is is not specifically a video game, a role-play or a social network - but has elements of all three.  Unfortunately, this leads to VERY differing reactions towards other Residents all of itself. 

Best to be clear about how *you* treat SL, and to be as careful with the feelings of others as you would like them to be with yours.

Making a Disclosure that you are "off-gender" is a risk, but IMO a more ethical approach than ongoing deception.

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  • 7 months later...

Sorry to wake an old thread but its late and I'm bored :) Every person comes to SL for their own reason and out side of using to it to scam people out of money or more sinister things I see nothing wrong with play as the opposite gender. If a man goes to great lengths to create a female personal for himself or a lady a male because they enjoy playing as the opposite sex why should they be required or asked to ruin it for themselves because someone else doesn't agree with their way of playing. Fact is that a large part of the SL female population is actually male so if it bothers you that the girl you are trying to score with, date or buddy around with might be a guy then this just might not be the place for you to be seeking out those types of relationships.

That said I'll be honest in saying that when i was younger I used a female account on BBS's, I wasn't in to cybersex or trying to form romantic relationships or anything like that I just found it more enjoyable as people where more open and accepting and friendly to me as a girl.  Outside of gender and my rl first name I was just me with the people i met online and had a lot of very good friendships, i genuinely liked and cared about the people I'd met online. But in the end it was a mistake as you just end up feeling alienated and entrapped by the persona you create. You can never be more than a screen name you've created to these people, no phone calls or going to board gatherings end you just end up being an outsider of sorts.

 

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Sonny Cloquet wrote:

But in the end it was a mistake as you just end up feeling alienated and entrapped by the persona you create. You can never be more than a screen name you've created to these people, no phone calls or going to board gatherings end you just end up being an outsider of sorts.

 

this is only true if you make it this way yourself. like if you are ashamed of yourself. is a cross you make for your own back mostly. if you feel like this

+

the men I know who play on female avatars not care who knows. a lot of them have both male and female avatars and switch between them as they feel like it

and when you go whoa!!! at them the first time you see them switch. they go: you just jealous bc am more pretty than you. jejejeje (:

+

is some ladies I know as well who got guy avatars as well as their normals. I ask one lady about that one time. she said she always had a guy avatar as well bc sometimes her friends not got anyone to dance with so she just goes on that one.

she say is actual better in SL that way. like less hassle. bc if 2 girls dancing in SL then can sometimes get lots of lewd chucked at them. but in RL is quite normal for girls to dance with each other

 

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  • 1 year later...

Skylar,

 

Ask your self this question what is the meaning of Second Life? It is a fairly simple question but if you take time to examine the answer you will find that it does not matter at all.

 

Second Life is exactly what the name implies, regardless of what sex plays what avatar. Your whole existence as a role player in second life is to exactly do just that have a life or lives if you have more than one avatar, that you might never do in reality.

For example I could never be a female in reality and not that I have no opposite sex avatar on here, this game allows me as a player to explore that side if I so desire. The whole point of second life is to do things explore things and be things you never thought possible.

Now it is true that real feelings get involved and people want to take it to another level. However Second Life is not the best format to meet people and establish long term relationships. Notice I said not the best place, I am sure it happens. But think about why second life is so amazing. Because it allows a player to have multiple sex partners (which they might not do IRL) It allows people to Marry and subsequently Cheat on their better half something they may not do in Real Life, but like it as a fantasy.

The key word being fantasy, to them its their fantasy to marry then cheat or establish a long term SL relationship and screw around, to you it might break your heart. 

 

This game is designed to allow you to make your utmost fantasies come true so no it does not matter who plays what, avatar.

 

People that cant separate the Fantasy which is Second Life from Reality are destined to get heart broken here.

 

Now the thing is 90% of players playing the opposite sex avatars are obvious and have no clue how to act like the opposite sex, often their screen name alone gives them away or the way they talk and act.

Every single player on Second life should never assume what anyone says on second life or acts like is real until you really talk outside of second life, and even then they still could be married or hiding something.

 

Above all else remember its a game, meant for entertainment purposes, and it is easy to get emotionally attached to others especially when you are intimate with them here. But try to remember that they are enjoying their version of whatever fantasy they want for their char, just as you are yours.

 

If people can't handle finding out that the SL girl they knew for years on SL was a guy IRL then they might want to consider not playing Second Life, or the Guy they thought they knew on Second life was actually a girl, because here you never know that's half the fun isn't it?

 

 

 

 

 

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