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Perrie Juran

Defining Griefing In The Forums

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Aylin Moonshadow wrote:


Venus Petrov wrote:

Why, right now I am laughing and rolling my eyes.  Different reasons, too!  Who'da thought?

Now you've got me really, really curious.  Dang.  And I was about to say,  "But I really don't want to make this thread about ME," but then I realized it could be a hundred other things.

But moving along, I see many points that I agree with and some I disagree with.  And in my thinking, I don't believe that disagreeing with a point of view is in and of itself griefing.  There can be no democracy without the free and open discussion of ideas.  But I also know that
this is a private Forum, the property of Linden Lab
.  They can do anything with it that they damn well please.  And we have certainly seen that happen.

But for the moment we are allowed to post our thoughts here, subject to the Lab's discretion.  So we need to coexist here.  If we do it peaceably, I think basically the Lab will let us post as we will.  (And yes I am aware of some of the arbitrary problems Rud referenced, I am only speaking in general here.) But if all we do is fight amongst ourselves, then I believe they will drop the hammer on us.  Mind you, I do not define coexisting peacefully as never disagreeing or having a different point of view.  There are issues that I have taken a very strong stand against in this Forum.  Nor do I expect every one to always get along.  I am not that naive.  But I do believe we can disagree and still maintain a modicum of civility IF we want to. 

 

 

Curious is as curious does.  Suffice it to say that someone else understands my point. 

As far as the statement I bolded, while the forum is 'owned' by Linden Lab, it is not private.  If it were private, we would not have to limit our discourse as would adults in a living room surrounded by children.

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Venus Petrov wrote

 

 Curious is as curious does.  Suffice it to say that someone else understands my point.

As far as the statement I bolded, while the forum is 'owned' by Linden Lab, it is not private.  If it were private, we would not have to limit our discourse as would adults in a living room surrounded by children.

You are correct, it is available to anyone. I was thinking more in terms of private property that we are allowed to 'visit.'  I should have been clearer.

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Griefing is an In-world activity.........Trolling is a forum activity. The SLF is no different to the vast majority of Interent forums.....there is a decent percentage here, capable of staying on topic...having a rational discourse.....and a sense of the appropriate.....for example when a humourous derail is an apposite activity.

 

Alas....there is always a segment of the inmates who react in an ill-thought hystercial fashion....as though real blows have been exchanged...rather than a few words bandied about by anonymous entities on the Internet. Sadly these hyper-emotional...over-reactive....bed-wetters tend to whine and complain more noisliy than the people capable of normal adult discourse. Many corporations in the service industry tend to listen to the whiners at the expense of the majority...in my experience, American corporations are particularly prone to this behaviour.

 

The answer lies in having moderators who are sensitive to the ever flowing culture of a forum...however this represents an enormous time-sink for a paid employee.....so one can understand LL's reluctance to facillitate this simple solution.

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Orfeu Miles wrote:

 The answer lies in having moderators who are sensitive to the ever flowing culture of a forum...however this represents an enormous time-sink for a paid employee.....so one can understand LL's reluctance to facillitate this simple solution.

No doubt being a business the Lab needs to realize a return on investment.

They do receive a HUGE return in my opinion from the free technical support that Residents here give to other Residents.  But if this was a dry technical Forum, would as many be willing to participate and lend a hand.  In my mind there is a huge social aspect that comes into play here, and while maybe harder to measure the return on investment from this, it is there also.

Also I understand the distinction you are making between griefing and trolling.  In my mind one pretty much equals the other.  One trolls to produce grief,  or because they are a griefer they troll.  The net result is pretty similar.  People are harassed.

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Perrie Juran wrote:

One trolls to produce grief,  or because they are a griefer they troll.  The net result is pretty similar.  People are harassed.


There are people who frequent these forums for whom the mere mention of their name, or somebody that they don't like posting responses to their posts or in "their" threads, is somehow equivalent to "harassment."

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Orfeu Miles wrote:

"Griefing is an In-world activity.........Trolling is a forum activity...    ... Sadly these hyper-emotional...over-reactive....bed-wetters tend to whine and complain more noisliy than the people capable of normal adult discourse."

Just no. Trolling is something entirely different requiring thought and humor to twist a legitimate idea into something entertaining. A few people may get offended by this, but thats not the problems of the true trolls, thats the problem of the people who cant see the forest for the trees (or the idea for the troll holding it, wichever)   Please dont lump the whiners and hyper-emotional into the same category. Tbh, those are the ones most often baited by the trolling. :matte-motes-nerdy:

 

Edited-- K I shoulda done more than skim that before replying ^^ I think we're saying the same thing >>

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I suppose,

You get trolled and griefed because you did not play by 'their' rules.

You joined the trolling and griefing because you longed for that recognition and acceptance you so badly want.

I see no harm in teasing someone with intelligent humor and wits. Our problem is that we do not know when to stop.

 

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Sy Beck wrote:


Aylin Moonshadow wrote:

 


Cat got your tongue...?

Oh cool.  Another self-censor.  Her text was quoted in my reply to her so it is still there.  I do not understand why the deletion, though.

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Venus Petrov wrote

 

 Curious is as curious does.  Suffice it to say that someone else understands my point.

As far as the statement I bolded, while the forum is 'owned' by Linden Lab, it is not private.  If it were private, we would not have to limit our discourse as would adults in a living room surrounded by children.

You are correct, it is available to anyone. I was thinking more in terms of private property that we are allowed to 'visit.' 
I should have been clearer.

Sorry Perrie,  umm have you gone and acquired another personality?  My reply was to someone else on this thread and now you say that 'you were thinking'??   Then you write 'I should have ...'   I have seen something like this before and I would say that you are sockpuppeting here.

Humm...might sockpuppeting be a form of forum griefing?  Or, is that trolling? 

Why ever would you delete posts?    Come on, fess up.  You know that you want to.

 

ETA: added to text

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UncommonTruth wrote:


Orfeu Miles wrote:

"Griefing is an In-world activity.........Trolling is a forum activity...    ... Sadly these hyper-emotional...over-reactive....bed-wetters tend to whine and complain more noisliy than the people capable of normal adult discourse."

Just no. Trolling is something entirely different requiring thought and humor to twist a legitimate idea into something entertaining. A few people may get offended by this, but thats not the problems of the true trolls, thats the problem of the people who cant see the forest for the trees (or the idea for the troll holding it, wichever)   Please dont lump the whiners and hyper-emotional into the same category. Tbh, those are the ones most often baited by the trolling. :matte-motes-nerdy:

 

Edited-- K I shoulda done more than skim that before replying ^^ I think we're saying the same thing
>>

Thats quie all right my dear...till I saw your Edit....I must confess to having a bit of a WTF moment.

It is all too easy to cry TROLL!!!!!11!...when someone is merely disagreeing with us....it is often just an emotional plea to stifle debate. That a disagreement might be couched in Humour...makes these socially mal-adaptive people, even more whiney.

;)

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UncommonTruth wrote:

We
are
saying the same thing then :smileyhappy:  apologies for causing the Wtf ^^

Huggz ( lasting longer than 5 seconds....whoops, sorry about that )

:)

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Venus Petrov wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


Venus Petrov wrote

 

 Curious is as curious does.  Suffice it to say that someone else understands my point.

As far as the statement I bolded, while the forum is 'owned' by Linden Lab, it is not private.  If it were private, we would not have to limit our discourse as would adults in a living room surrounded by children.

You are correct, it is available to anyone. I was thinking more in terms of private property that we are allowed to 'visit.' 
I should have been clearer.

Sorry Perrie,  umm have you gone and acquired another personality?  My reply was to someone else on this thread and now you say that '
you
were thinking'??   Then you write 'I should have ...'   I have seen something like this before and I would say that you are sockpuppeting here.

Humm...might sockpuppeting be a form of forum griefing?  Or, is that trolling? 

Why ever would you delete posts?    Come on, fess up.  You know that you want to.

 

ETA: added to text

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Perrie Juran wrote:

So putting my long windedness aside, I would like to propose this simple concept:

"Griefing in the Forum occurs when the focus of a discussion moves from the issue at hand to the poster."

___________________________________________________________________________________________

 

As others and I said, it's usually the poster who brings it upon themselves.

 

Perrie Juran

Suffering from severed post jiggling.

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RudolphUkka wrote:

"Abuse" is only used in the

*

Community Guidelines in the context of their attempt to

*

censor any and all criticism of the

*

moderation process. Please don't use it as a

*

convenient euphemism for "griefing". Griefing and abuse of residents are

*

issues that relate to

*

inworld situations, not these

*

forums.

***

Rudi

***

Focusing on the broader context, my use of the word abuse goes beyond a partial definition as found in local documentation.  There are mechanisms in the forums which can be abused to the extent of causing grief to others. (^_^)

Now... Bed time.  Try to not think about what my pajamas may look like. =^-^=

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Griefing in the Forum occurs when the focus of a discussion moves from the issue at hand to the poster.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Griefing in the Forums occurs when the focus of a discussion moves from the issue at hand, to the poster, respondent or person outside of SL.

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This whole thread just has me wondering who / what got the smackaround this time that caused 'everyone' in the proper cliques to suddenly feel an outrage that needed a thread about griefing?

 I guess I'm feeling a little snarky right now... But it does seem that, in most forums; what is griefing trolling depends largely on how liked the victim is the majority of posters.

But unless I missed a thread somewhere, I'm not seeing any real arguments around here right now. Maybe some in the adult forums - as usual for that kind of forum - but not here.

 

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Smackaround?  I see no smackaround here.  My underlying point to Perrie was that different people interpret things said and done often differently.

What can appear as sockpuppeting may be an accidental use of an alt.  What can appear as trolling can be subtle or not so subtle humor.

Think about it.

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Griffin Ceawlin wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

One trolls to produce grief,  or because they are a griefer they troll.  The net result is pretty similar.  People are harassed.


There are people who frequent these forums for whom the mere mention of their name, or somebody that they don't like posting responses to their posts or in "their" threads, is somehow equivalent to "harassment."

This does go on quite frequently.  Or at least enough to be readily noticeable.

How many of us have abandoned a thread or discussion we were enjoying when this has started?  It makes me want to say, and I think I have said it a few times, "come on guys, take it outside."

A challenge in any society is balancing the rights of the individual with the good of the community.

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Melita Magic wrote:

Every time I take a break from the forums some big drama erupts. Why is that? :smileyvery-happy:

Then stop taking breaks.  You know how important this stuff (drama) is to the community.  :matte-motes-bored:

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