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Chelsea Malibu

On Behalf of every American, Thank You Veterans for your service.

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As we remember our Veteran's on this day, a very heartfelt and tearful thank you for your service and sacrifices you have made for so many.

And for those currently serving in combat zones oversees, we pray for your safe return and the welcome arms of your families. 

I know there are a lot of active and veteran groups in SL as well as some activities happening today in world, please post them for those who would like to attend.

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Thank you for posting this.  

There's a another thread here where the commenters seem to be laboring under the impression that war does not solve anything.  Yet, those same people are most likely posting from safe western nations that came into existence, due to a series of wars. 

My own country, the US, was founded by a brutal war.  Yet, that war, and the subsequent government that arose, became a clarion call for freedom that has spread through the world. 

This past year we have witnessed the Arab Spring, whereby those who were oppressed, fought to try and obtain some of the same freedoms, that we here in the West take for granted. 

But, this taste of freedom does not come cheap, and we saw Arab civil wars as the ultimate result. Even knowing that a brutal war is necessary to obtain freedom, humans time and again...choose that option!     Why?  Because humans want to be free.  

I actually have two sons that are old enough to be registered for the draft, and they are registered.  So, as a mother of sons that could in theory, be pulled into a war, I certainly do not advocate for war.   But, I also know that until we have a world where power hungry oppressors are unable to rule over others, that war is something that is neccessary, and is often the only way to stop the oppression. 

So, for those that hate war, I suggest that they look at the root causes of oppression.   That is the key to ending wars.   Look at how some governments deny their people basic rights, deny their people education, deny their people the ability to make a living.   Wars happen for a reason and not only does war solve and eliminate oppression, but it's usually the only thing that can. 

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Yes war is often an unavoidable necessity to protect those in need however, one thing that always comes to mind is that those veterans, who are putting the lives at risk, do not start wars.  To understate their service is a poorly misguided notion that detracts from the very hard job they face and the recognition for their efforts.

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Chelsea Malibu wrote:

Yes war is often an unavoidable necessity to protect those in need however, one thing that always comes to mind is that those veterans, who are putting the lives at risk, do not start wars.  To understate their service is a poorly misguided notion that detracts from the very hard job they face and the recognition for their efforts.

Hmm, I haven't understated the service that veterans do.  Not sure how you came to post that sentence? 

My father lost a brother in WWII, and his three other brothers were all wounded.  My father and a maternal uncle were both drafted into the Korean war...and currently, my father is the Commander of the Indiana Korean War veterans group. 

My ex-husband is a Navy veteran. 

Here in Indiana, every year, several Koren groups and churches invite the local Korean War veterans to a special ceremony to honor them.  To honor the sacrifices made on behalf of Korea. 

Veterans do not start the wars, that is true.  But all service men and women are fully cognizant and aware that they are in the military...and the purpose of the military is war. 

One cannot separate the military service and sacrifices from the actual purpose of the military. Nor, do I wish to do so.   If one only focuses on the service and sacrifices....then we fail to examine the reasons for war.   Yet, we must examine the reasons for war...or we are doing service men and women no favors...and dooming them to futile sacrifices.

 

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Eh, even as an American, I rather not thank people who like to kill without any remorse and torture 3rd citizens.  I thought humans were better than that.

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

There's a another thread here where the commenters seem to be laboring under the impression that war does not solve anything.  Yet, those same people are most likely posting from safe western nations that came into existence, due to a series of wars. 

And for those laboring under the impression that you read that entire thread, Perrie posted Phil Och's "Outside of a Small Circle of Friends", which indicts self absorbed indifference to the suffering of others, and CSNY's protest song "Find the Cost of Freedom" which makes no statement about whether violent conflict solves anything, but rightly reminds us of the cost of freedom.

I posted Twain's "War Prayer" to decry blind faith in country, religion or dogma of any kind.

Celestiall, before you make blanket statements, look under the blanket?

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

Thank you for posting this.  

There's a another thread here where the commenters seem to be laboring under the impression that war does not solve anything.  Yet, those same people are most likely posting from safe western nations that came into existence, due to a series of wars. 

My own country, the US, was founded by a brutal war.  Yet, that war, and the subsequent government that arose, became a clarion call for freedom that has spread through the world. 

This past year we have witnessed the Arab Spring, whereby those who were oppressed, fought to try and obtain some of the same freedoms, that we here in the West take for granted. 

But, this taste of freedom does not come cheap, and we saw Arab civil wars as the ultimate result. Even knowing that a brutal war is necessary to obtain freedom, humans time and again...choose that option!     Why?  Because humans want to be free.  

I actually have two sons that are old enough to be registered for the draft, and they are registered.  So, as a mother of sons that could in theory, be pulled into a war, I certainly do not advocate for war.   But, I also know that until we have a world where power hungry oppressors are unable to rule over others, that war is something that
is
neccessary, and is often the only way to stop the oppression. 

So, for those that hate war, I suggest that they look at the root causes of oppression.   That is the key to ending wars.   Look at how some governments deny their people basic rights, deny their people education, deny their people the ability to make a living.   Wars happen for a reason and not only does war solve and eliminate oppression, but it's usually the only thing that can. 

please don't misunderstand my hate for war..i know how the U.S. was founded..it was founded by greedy politicians..

i won't go into too many details about that..all i know is it wasn't all in the name of freedom..because there was a population of about 30 million natives when the boats landed..when it was all said and done..there were about 3 million left to rot..

i guess it was a good thing if your family was on the winning side of all that..

i don't go around bitching about the losses and where we are today too much..because i know we can't turn back the clock..

but i won't fool myself to believe that politicians have wars because of the people being oppressed in other countries either or that it is in the best interests of the people in other countries..thats just romantic sales pitch that seems to rally people..

because if that were the case we would have been in more wars than we were already in..you can bet there needs to be something either self preserving about it or about  better financial positioning or power..

iraq is the center position of the world in the middle east.. we are never pulling out of there..they spent too much to get positioned there..

just as they did with taking the america in fear of the savages..they have them in fear of the new term terrorists and taking positions in the middle east..sure there are terrorists..but there were not any in iraq..they fooled us like they did before..

since the war has started.. terrorism has incresed 100 times more than it was before..it just doesn't happen here now..but americans die from it more than they did 10 years prior..it's just happening in a war now..

my hate is for the politicians and the times when they waste lives more than anything..i know sometimes we have to fight..it should be when we have to protect what we have rather than take what we want..

i will always respect the soldiers..but i will never respect the politicians that do what they can to make sure the people in their own families and lives never get close to seeing a war..but will stroke the pen if it will get them some votes or better station in life..while it takes so many lives for them..

i won't repect their wars unless they can prove good reason for them...but i will never disrespect the ones that fight them..not even the ones on the other side unless they are a war criminal..because they are only doing the same thing..what was asked of them..

 

sorry for bringing this here.. but i felt i should answer why i posted what i did in the other thread..

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

Thank you for posting this.  

There's a another thread here where the commenters seem to be laboring under the impression that war does not solve anything.  Yet, those same people are most likely posting from safe western nations that came into existence, due to a series of wars. 

My own country, the US, was founded by a brutal war.  Yet, that war, and the subsequent government that arose, became a clarion call for freedom that has spread through the world. 

This past year we have witnessed the Arab Spring, whereby those who were oppressed, fought to try and obtain some of the same freedoms, that we here in the West take for granted. 

But, this taste of freedom does not come cheap, and we saw Arab civil wars as the ultimate result. Even knowing that a brutal war is necessary to obtain freedom, humans time and again...choose that option!     Why?  Because humans want to be free.  

I actually have two sons that are old enough to be registered for the draft, and they are registered.  So, as a mother of sons that could in theory, be pulled into a war, I certainly do not advocate for war.   But, I also know that until we have a world where power hungry oppressors are unable to rule over others, that war is something that
is
neccessary, and is often the only way to stop the oppression. 

So, for those that hate war, I suggest that they look at the root causes of oppression.   That is the key to ending wars.   Look at how some governments deny their people basic rights, deny their people education, deny their people the ability to make a living.   Wars happen for a reason and not only does war solve and eliminate oppression, but it's usually the only thing that can. 

please don't misunderstand my hate for war..i know how the U.S. was founded..it was founded by greedy politicians..

i won't go into too many details about that..all i know is it wasn't all in the name of freedom..because there was a population of about 30 million natives when the boats landed..when it was all said and done..there were about 3 million left to rot..

i guess it was a good thing if your family was on the winning side of all that..

i don't go around bitching about the losses and where we are today too much..because i know we can't turn back the clock..

but i won't fool myself to believe that politicians have wars because of the people being oppressed in other countries either or that it is in the best interests of the people in other countries..thats just romantic sales pitch that seems to rally people..

because if that were the case we would have been in more wars than we were already in..you can bet there needs to be something either self preserving about it or about  better financial positioning or power..

iraq is the center position of the world in the middle east.. we are never pulling out of there..they spent too much to get positioned there..

just as they did with taking the america in fear of the savages..they have them in fear of the new term terrorists and taking positions in the middle east..sure there are terrorists..but there were not any in iraq..they fooled us like they did before..

since the war has started.. terrorism has incresed 100 times more than it was before..it just doesn't happen here now..but americans die from it more than they did 10 years prior..it's just happening in a war now..

my hate is for the politicians and the times when they waste lives more than anything..i know sometimes we have to fight..it should be when we have to protect what we have rather than take what we want..

i will always respect the soldiers..but i will never respect the politicians that do what they can to make sure the people in their own families and lives never get close to seeing a war..but will stroke the pen if it will get them some votes or better station in life..while it takes so many lives for them..

i won't repect their wars unless they can prove good reason for them...but i will never disrespect the ones that fight them..not even the ones on the other side unless they are a war criminal..because they are only doing the same thing..what was asked of them..

 

sorry for bringing this here.. but i felt i should answer why i posted what i did in the other thread..

Dad fought in WWII and witnessed the second post war A-Bomb test at Enewetak Atoll. Although he voted Republican (often the most hawkish side of the aisle) all his life, during his many reflective moments he expressed grave doubts over any nation's ability to wield power in conflict wisely. He was not a fan of "My country, right or wrong."

Ask any soldier if the war he fought was as simple to him as the one advertised back home. Your point about romanticism rings so true.

In addition to the 27 million lost Native Americans you cite, Ceka, I can add 100 million lost at the hands of Hitler, Stalin and Mao Ze-Dong. Stalin's handiwork was eventually undone far less violently than it started.

I quite agree that one's perception of the value of war depends on whether one is the victor, the vanquished or a third party historian. Mankind can't run this experiment both ways, our history is the only one we've got. Nevertheless, the very big numbers, as I believe Celestiall has noted in the past, point to our present as being the best of times. We are healthier, wealthier and less violent than at any time in human history. I remain hopeful the trend will continue.

We will, I think, forever have disagreements about correlation vs. causation here, but I hope we can believe there may have been a better path to our present than the one we took and that we'll continue to look for better paths going forward.

Dad never talked about his war experiences, but I am certain he introduced me to Twain's "War Prayer" because he was able to follow the bullets flying from the wings of his Corsair straight into the souls of the fathers and sons that never returned home because of his skill, his will and his belief that he was doing the right thing. A belief he felt deserved constant scrutiny.

So I shall honor those who fought for what they believed was right by challenging what we believe is right.

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Surely the only thing that should be in our minds on this day is the selflessness and extraordinary bravery of those that have lost their lives or suffered injury answering the service of their countries.

It brings a shiver to my spine and a tear to my eye to reflect on a fact such as that in World War II RAF Bomber Command suffered in excess of 55,000 fatalities out of 125,000 aircrew; a death rate of almost 45%. Those brave souls were as good as taking off in their own coffins.

 

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

There's a another thread here where the commenters seem to be laboring under the impression that war does not solve anything.  Yet, those same people are most likely posting from safe western nations that came into existence, due to a series of wars. 

And for those laboring under the impression that you read that entire thread
, Perrie posted Phil Och's "Outside of a Small Circle of Friends", which indicts self absorbed indifference to the suffering of others, and CSNY's protest song "Find the Cost of Freedom" which makes no statement about whether violent conflict solves anything, but rightly reminds us of the cost of freedom.

I posted Twain's "War Prayer" to decry blind faith in country, religion or dogma of any kind.

Celestiall, before you make blanket statements, look under the blanket?

I did read the whole thread, viewed the vids, songs, etc.  I was aware of Twain's double parody on Religion/war...even before you posted it there.

Yet, you and the others made no mention of the fact, that wars are sometimes necessary. 

Nor, did you or any of the others, counter Scylla's statement:     " In memory of all of those hundreds of millions -- soldiers and civilians -- who have perished in the last century through the all-too-human illusion that anything is ever solved by war.

But, we both must know that war has, and will continue to "solve" oppression.  It's how we are both able to be in this free society to debate this issue on the internet.  Wars were fought to ensure that right for us.  

That I chose to not post in that other thread, and instead posted here with my message...was deliberate.  But, that does not mean that I can't express my opinion about what is being said in that thread.

I chose to post here in this thread...as the sentiments expressed here by the OP...are much more in line with my view of Veterans Day.   Not, the message that Scylla is propagating...which basically says that wars are in vain...and lives lost were for naught. 

You might want to try looking under that blanket yourself.

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Snugs McMasters wrote:


Dad fought in WWII and witnessed the second post war A-Bomb test at Enewetak Atoll. Although he voted Republican (often the most hawkish side of the aisle) all his life, during his many reflective moments he expressed grave doubts over any nation's ability to wield power in conflict wisely. He was not a fan of "My country, right or wrong."

Ask any soldier if the war he fought was as simple to him as the one advertised back home. Your point about romanticism rings so true.

In addition to the 27 million lost Native Americans you cite, Ceka, I can add 100 million lost at the hands of Hitler, Stalin and Mao Ze-Dong. Stalin's handiwork was eventually undone far less violently than it started.

I quite agree that one's perception of the value of war depends on whether one is the victor, the vanquished or a third party historian. Mankind can't run this experiment both ways, our history is the only one we've got. Nevertheless, the very big numbers, as I believe Celestiall has noted in the past, point to our present as being the best of times. We are healthier, wealthier and less violent than at any time in human history. I remain hopeful the trend will continue.

We will, I think, forever have disagreements about correlation vs. causation here, but I hope we can believe there may have been a better path to our present than the one we took and that we'll continue to look for better paths going forward.

Dad never talked about his war experiences, but I am certain he introduced me to Twain's "War Prayer" because he was able to follow the bullets flying from the wings of his Corsair straight into the souls of the fathers and sons that never returned home because of his skill, his will and his belief that he was doing the right thing. A belief he felt deserved constant scrutiny.

So I shall honor those who fought for what they believed was right by challenging what we believe is right.

my family fought in those wars as well..infact Natives were a big part of the war with the japanese..those that could speak navajo..because the enemy could not figure out the language to decode the messages so messages were passed in native tongue..

as far as the 30 million..my point was there were 3 million left..break that down to all the tribes that were left and you are cutting it pretty close to being extinct..

apache maybe having 2,000 left when it was over..

orders were given to make the apache extinct..thats a scary feeling when i hear that..i feel very fortunate to be here after hearing that..

i wasn't trying to say we had the largest genocide..i was saying that it may have all sounded good from that side of the fence..

but it didn't do the other side much good even in today..they are not better off today..they are not less violent and they are not healthier..and they are now still oppressed..

i may be benefitting from things.. but i am one of the fortunate ones..because my great grandfather decided not to live on a reservation..

i don't hold things against people of today for past things they had nothing to do with..and i don't claim to be a victim of those things because i was not there myself.. i am in a very good life..and i am grateful to have such good fortune..

but for me i do look very close at why we go to war..and who is declaring it..

i never judge the warriors because they fight them because that is their job and they are doing what they signed up to do..and they each have their reasons for signing up..

i have the most respect for them all..i know lots of them from where i live..even some that did not make it back..i know lots and lots of veterans.. and i know lots that are soon to be shippping out..

in tennessee there is a saying..They don't call us the VOL's for nothin.. at work there is always someone shipping out it seems also...

there is one man that is a veteran that goes around in town just cutting the older womens yards that have lost their husbands in past wars..he is like 75 years old..he was captured by the japanese and held until the war was over..

i've talked to him a quite a few times while out in my yard in town just chit chating  about anything..i've never asked him about what hapened..i'm sure i would start to cry because he is the sweatest man in the world..and just thinking of them hurting him puts tears in my eyes right now and pisses me off to no end..

soldiers or warriors can't start to think about right or wrong or they won't live through them..thier job is to go there and try to make it back to us in one piece..i mean who could ever spit on anyone making that kind of sacrifice?

not me..not ever

but a politician..i have no mercy for and also see they never change over time either..

i can't help that i hate politicians..it's a vice i'm not willing to let go of..ever

 

 

 

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

There's a another thread here where the commenters seem to be laboring under the impression that war does not solve anything.  Yet, those same people are most likely posting from safe western nations that came into existence, due to a series of wars. 

And for those laboring under the impression that you read that entire thread
, Perrie posted Phil Och's "Outside of a Small Circle of Friends", which indicts self absorbed indifference to the suffering of others, and CSNY's protest song "Find the Cost of Freedom" which makes no statement about whether violent conflict solves anything, but rightly reminds us of the cost of freedom.

I posted Twain's "War Prayer" to decry blind faith in country, religion or dogma of any kind.

Celestiall, before you make blanket statements, look under the blanket?

I did read the whole thread, viewed the vids, songs, etc.  I was aware of Twain's double parody on Religion/war...even before you posted it there.

Yet, you and the others made no mention of the fact, that wars
are
sometimes necessary. 

Nor, did you or any of the others, counter Scylla's statement:     " 
In memory of all of those hundreds of millions -- soldiers and civilians -- who have perished in the last century through
the all-too-human illusion that anything is ever solved by war.

But, we both must know that war has, and will continue to "solve" oppression.  It's how we are both able to be in this free society to debate this issue on the internet.  Wars were fought to ensure that right for us.  

That I chose to
not
post in that other thread, and instead posted here with my message...was deliberate.  But, that does not mean that I can't express my opinion about what
is
being said in that thread.

I chose to post here in this thread...as the sentiments expressed here by the OP...are much more in line with my view of Veterans Day.   Not, the message that Scylla is propagating...which basically says that wars are in vain...and lives lost were for naught. 

You might want to try looking under that blanket yourself.

i admit my first post in her thread was in haste because the thread did not apear to be as deep as she usually gets..i expected it to be a big long post and saw it was really pretty tame..

so i just posted a video and typed up some of the words in the song..

i wasn't making a big statement about war..i didn't even see your post here until after i made my second post there..

because i took a little more time to think about what today was..

going over and stopping hitler is a war that needed to be fought...especially after finding out what was going on after..

stopping the war on saddam in desert storm when we had everyone with us was just a move on our part so we could go in on our own years later to claim our position in the middle east..

he went back and killed tons of his people and all of those that surrendered to us by us stopping..so we wait and let them build up..we broadcasted that we are coming which triggered outside help for them.. so now we are there forever.. when we could have made it short and clean years earlier..ending in a couple of months back then what will never end now..

thats politicians at work not generals..thats a war i can't back..

but i will always back and support the troops..because those are the people that are living next door or at work or in our homes..

i look at politicians as they look at us..just a name on a on some piece of paper i see once every two to four years that i don't give a crap about if they live or die..

 

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Veteran's Day 2013

A special Thank You to all our Veterans Past & Present.  

The Staff of the SL Enquirer would like to extend our heart-felt appreciation for all your dedication.  

We are honored by those who have put their country first beyond their own needs.

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Old soldiers never die ... Or threads.

Each year on this day - 11th November - we in Britain hold Remembrance Day.  This is the anniversay of the first world war (armistice signed 11am, 11th day of the 11th month) but we remember all those who have died in war or because of war, especially in the year just passed.

We'll be remembering the Americans, Germans, Afghans and everyone else as well - including civilians - who have died through warfare because of man's inability to learn better.

 

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The holiday has become something different in the US, or at least different from the way I understand it to be in Britain and Canada. The US, although certainly instrumental in bringing WWI to a close, arrived late enough to avoid the shocking loss of life experienced by Britain, France, Germany, Russia, and the other nations who were involved from the beginning. I have to think that for people in those countries knowing the war was finally over meant so much more.

WWII was a different as well. Britiain may have had a better tank trap than France, but still had to endure the Luftwaffe raining bombs, incendiaries, V1's, and V2's. In the US that didn't happen. Civilians were, mostly, safe. It wasn't until the Cold War that US civilians became targets, but even then it was only conjecture. Of course, since 9/11 that's changed, but prior to that we didn't have people trying to kill us because we didn't go to their church.

Thus, in the US we use the Eleventh of November to honor those of us who have signed up and suited up and gone out there on the edge, where our enemies live. It's not the same as Remembrance, but it is still a good thing to do.

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

The holiday has become something different in the US, or at least different from the way I understand it to be in Britain and Canada. The US, although certainly instrumental in bringing WWI to a close, arrived late enough to avoid the shocking loss of life experienced by Britain, France, Germany, Russia, and the other nations who were involved from the beginning. I have to think that for people in those countries knowing the war was finally over meant so much more.

WWII was a different as well. Britiain may have had a better tank trap than France, but still had to endure the Luftwaffe raining bombs, incendiaries, V1's, and V2's. In the US that didn't happen. Civilians were, mostly, safe. It wasn't until the Cold War that US civilians became targets, but even then it was only conjecture. Of course, since 9/11 that's changed, but prior to that we didn't have people trying to kill us because we didn't go to their church.

Thus, in the US we use the Eleventh of November to honor those of us who have signed up and suited up and gone out there on the edge, where our enemies live. It's not the same as Remembrance, but it is still a good thing to do.

You do have your moments, Dillon.   These^^ are kind words; the right words.  

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Storm Clarence wrote:


Dillon Levenque wrote:

The holiday has become something different in the US, or at least different from the way I understand it to be in Britain and Canada. The US, although certainly instrumental in bringing WWI to a close, arrived late enough to avoid the shocking loss of life experienced by Britain, France, Germany, Russia, and the other nations who were involved from the beginning. I have to think that for people in those countries knowing the war was finally over meant so much more.

WWII was a different as well. Britiain may have had a better tank trap than France, but still had to endure the Luftwaffe raining bombs, incendiaries, V1's, and V2's. In the US that didn't happen. Civilians were, mostly, safe. It wasn't until the Cold War that US civilians became targets, but even then it was only conjecture. Of course, since 9/11 that's changed, but prior to that we didn't have people trying to kill us because we didn't go to their church.

Thus, in the US we use the Eleventh of November to honor those of us who have signed up and suited up and gone out there on the edge, where our enemies live. It's not the same as Remembrance, but it is still a good thing to do.

You do have your moments, Dillon.   These^^ are kind words; the right words.  

Sometimes I read something in the forums that touches my heart... this is one of those moments.

...Dres (Because of the both of you.)

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