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ZINDRA & Zindrans ((Betrayed ?))


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Qie, there is a name change proposal on the table that was submitted by the Portal management group to Linden Lab yesterday. Let us give it till the morning to learn if this proposal is going forward. One should expect some information at the 10 am PDT meeting in Bronlen. 

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I don't see why anyone would use a continent name to find anything.  Really, they're just nicknames for a cluster of mainland sims and the sims get their own names. () My joint is in Jonesford Height

With all due respect Imnotgoing .... When I try & promote Adult Mainland ... it is Zindra that I am promoting ... not any one of its 358 sims

Imnotgoing Sideways wrote: I don't see why anyone would use a continent name to find anything.   For 90% of Zindra's history there was a sim in the middle of Zindra named Zindra. It made it sup


Ciaran Laval wrote:

Thanks to Zindra Alliance and The Freedom Continent for resolving the naming issue in a constructive manner.

The bulk of the work was done by the HUB management team and our friends at Linden Lab, so thanks to both of you!

What we need to look into now is how to establish a recognizable landing point for the Zindra continent.

The Zindra Directory Kiosks has been placed in the 4 corners of the Adult MAIN HUB, and will later be placed likewise in the other HUB sims. This will certainly help drive some traffic to Zindra from the HUB, so this is a very good development.  To be listed in the Zindra directory, check out this web page

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It's so encouraging to see such a potentially contentious and drama-laden issue about Adult Content resolved so quickly, amicably and in such a reasonable and  (dare I say it?) adult manner that benefits all of us who are involved.  

This is, to my mind, a great start to a whole new chapter in Adult Content on the grid, and a very exciting one.

Thank you so much, Serjourn, Counter and Viale.   Well done, guys.

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Agreed: this was a good outcome, achieved efficiently, so kudos to all involved.  It's encouraging, going forward.

Now we're back to the old problem of what to do about people who naively Map teleport to "Zindra".  Once the gateway sim renames are fully in effect, a blind TP to "Zindra" will end up in the waters of "Zindra Ocean" -- sound familiar?  It's one sim east of Whorlebow, which used to be "Zindra" before we arranged to swap it for the sim now known as "Mosh South."

Personally, I'd prefer that "Mosh South" to be renamed back to "Zindra" and used for something sensible, with a minimal set of launching-off kiosks at the landing point -- including one that maps to the Adult Prime location.  (Actually, if LL is up for it, one of those funky portal things that go to the LR sims, pointed instead to Adult Prime, would be fine with me. Maybe another that takes premium members to the adult premium sandboxes, and maybe others for other public adult destinations... maybe Vortex?)  I don't think it really takes a whole sim for just this "dispatching" purpose, but don't have any specific recommendations for what to do with the rest of it.

(Full disclosure: One small part of my preference to restore "Zindra" to that sim is the fact that I have a bunch of touchable maps spread around with scripts that assume "Zindra" is the name of that particular piece of geography and have been doing very silly things since it was renamed.  I misjudged that one, favoring a miniscule efficiency hack over robustness to such a name change. "Oops.")

 

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There is still a little bit of acreage on the Zindra Alliance parcel next to Cafe Mocciato in Bronlen that can be used as a dispatch area till anything better shows up. Not tons of prims available, but we don't need that really. It can be up and running in a day.

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Right, but I'm not worrying about finding somewhere from which to dispatch so much as what becomes of the folks who Map to "Zindra" and end up nowhere useful.  

In fact, the gateway sims didn't really handle that quite correctly either because the Map defaults to alphabetical, so folks would end up in what was called "Zindra East", not "Zindra Prime."  Unless they were doing telehub routing, I suppose.

Anyway, that's not a problem for long, but "Zindra Ocean" will be.

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You can teleport to the individual sims directly from the map, but they load balance from DG.

I have flagged the name issue for the AUG meeting in 14 days, so that is most likely the right forum to discuss that bit. To get anything but the wasteland the former Zindra sim was, there must be commercial activity in such a location as we simply cannot assume free resouces to be made available. 

I will look at setting up an area in the Bronlen sim tomorrow were community resources can be placed, including your own map and make a slight change to the parcel name back to Zindra Arena (as it was a couple months back.)

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Do we know how many people do, in fact, map to "Zindra"?   I've heard figures quoted recently that suggest the number of map searches for Zindra on its own is tiny; I'd be interested to know if LL will confirm this, but I suspect it's true.    

Yes, two years ago, we were all looking for Zindra because it had only just opened and there was, literally, hardly anything there, now if you look for "Zindra" in search, as opposed to the map, there's plenty to be found.    Any of those hits will locate the continent on the map.

Maybe a way round it would be simply to rename that bit of ocean and concentrate on promoting Zindra through things like the Zindra Nights directory.   New people won't be confused -- they'll be finding the directory, full of destinations, at the Adult Hub.   People who've been here longer won't be confused, because we know where the place is, anyway; when I want to examine Zindra on the map,  I simply pull up the map for any existing Zindra landmark I have, and pan round.

To my mind, any confusion is likely to be slight, and certainly temporary.  

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Linden Lab wrote:

Yes, Innula.  Very light. Most people use RL names in search.

I don't.  If someone has never been there and all they know is the continent name and reputation, that is what they will type into search.  Someone who has never been won't have landmarks or know business' names, many will just have figured out how to tp there.  All I have heard since I first logged on  in early 2010 is that if you want  'adult fun' it has been moved to Zindra.  I think the issue is that all of you old timers assume everyone knows how it all works.  We don't.  We don't know about search, tp'ing, attaching/adding things, we have no idea how to remove scripts, use HUDs or edit items.  A newbie just knowing to type 'I want free sex' into search would be an interesting idea.  We are the people you will be getting at your hub.  Are you ready for that?  What do I put into search to even find it?  Am I suppose to know it is called 'Adult Hub'?  If I put anything sexual into the search box, will it automatically come up?  You need to look at this through the eyes of a new SL resident to be successful.  Assume the only thing they know how to do is get age verified...

Cinn

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I think you're both right: the volumes will be low, but non-zero.  It's not that solving the looming problem of folks drowning in Zindra Ocean will bring a ton of eager Adult content customers to anybody's shore.  

If they use normal Search for "Zindra", they'll get enough results to have reasonable choices from which to select. It's the ones who type "Zindra" into the Map -- knowing just enough to realize it's a geographic name, so why not Map? -- those are the ones very likely to end up in the ocean.

We know that number isn't zero because folks kept landing smack in the middle of the old Zindra sim, both when it was water and when it was dry land; remember, that's how it got to be dry land.  Not vast numbers, but I'd guess twenty or so a day.

Nothing has changed, really, to make that stop happening; it's true that Search works much better than before, and Adult Search in particular, but Search problems weren't the cause of Map teleports to Zindra. 

So, yeah, it's not a huge problem, it's just an old one, back again in it's earlier, "wetter" form.  As long as folks hear "Zindra" as a place for Adult content, some folks are going to try to get there by Map, and it would be nice if there were a reasonable place for them to land.

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To get anything but the wasteland the former Zindra sim was, there must be commercial activity in such a location as we simply cannot assume free resouces to be made available. 

I guess.  I mean, I'm not trying to lobby for free resources here, and the Zindra continent already has a generous amount of LDPW infrastructure.  And I realize it's vanishingly unlikely that any Linden is going to start doing regular lotteries* of spaces in the current build. 

So, short of resurrecting the lottery notion, one possibility would be to rename the Mosh South sim to Zindra and reconfigure it once again, this time as straight-up double-primmed land for auction, reserving enough Linden-owned land for the double-primming and a low-prim LDPW build around (128,128) to handle basic dispatching around the continent and to the Adult Gateway hubs.

_____________

*That further implies that the current tenants of Luna Oaks and Busy Ben's have bumbled onto a lifetime of tier-free in-world commerce.  But that's a different bit of untidiness.

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I have readied an area in Bronlen where you are welcome to provide links to, and information about Zindra community resources, including Qie's map.  

For obvious reasons the land must be set to a group and if you don't want to join Zindra Alliance, I am happy to accept content for placement. ZA members can rezz there. 

The four corners are the first spaces to be filled with content. Prims are scarce so please use as few prims as possible. You find Zindra Arena here

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Qie Niangao wrote:

I think you're both right: the volumes will be low, but non-zero.  It's not that solving the looming problem of folks drowning in Zindra Ocean will bring a ton of eager Adult content customers to anybody's shore.  

If they use normal
Search
for "Zindra", they'll get enough results to have reasonable choices from which to select. It's the ones who type "Zindra" into the
Map
-- knowing just enough to realize it's a geographic name, so why
not
Map? -- those are the ones very likely to end up in the ocean.

Would one solution to the problem not be to rename the Zindra Sea  so that, if people do search for Zindra using the map, there's nothing to find?    Then, presumably, they'll try search, since they know the place exists, and then they'll start to find stuff.

I don't have a problem with a sim on Zindra being called "Zindra" anything, but my big worry is the prospect of spending another two years at ACUG meetings dominated by endless, and frequently acrimonious, debate about how land on it should be allocated, what it should be called and so on.    You can't be too sanguine at the prospect, either.

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Its weird, being one of the Zindra Sims closest to Zindra Ocean i have never witnessed a constant flow of av's arriving dripping from the water :))

The safe hub in the ocean is always packed out. I often wonder where they end up..

Surely it is not rocket science for LL to create a small landing point called Zindra for all searching 'Zindra' to receive an explanatory note that a whole continent exists, open your map and tp...with caution.  Or offer a link to a safe gateway similar to Gavins idea where people can explore from there.

There is always the risk a newbie will search for green dots and tp into the 'extreme' to never return again! but then maybe the responsibility lies with Zindra residents to rate their areas maybe as 'X'  'XX' or 'XXX'

We need residents, we need footfall and returning footfall.

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In practice,  at least based on my experience of exploring Zindra, you'd be very unlikely to find yourself somewhere you didn't want to be, simply by TPing using the map.   Most places seem to ensure you arrive at a safe area and that, before you leave it, you know what you're likely to find.    

Indeed, if you're simply tp-ing round using the map to find populous destinations, you're quite likely to arrive in an apparently deserted plot, with nothing there but a TP that takes you up to a skybox well above map-tp level, which is where all those green dots are.

But people unfamiliar with Zindra aren't going to know that, of course.   

 

 

 

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Storyof Oh wrote:

Its weird, being one of the Zindra Sims closest to Zindra Ocean i have never witnessed a constant flow of av's arriving dripping from the water
:)
)

There shouldn't be any, until the rename of Zindra East hits the Map.

Thinking about it more, however, my experience with this was watching folks plop down in the middle of the Zindra sim, some of whom I spoke with and said they got there from the Map.  That "Zindra" name is a little different from just being the first "Zindra something" on the list, so maybe the number of folks taking that first "Zindra something" would truly be negligible.

As I've said ad nauseum, I always thought that the existence of a sim with the same name as the continent was an opportunity not to be missed, but Innula has an excellent point: The last thing we need is another multi-year battle over how to cultivate that opportunity, or how to dilute it by spreading the Zindra name all over the continent.

So, yeah, I'm convinced: As-is, it's not enough of a problem to fret over.  There is still a sim called Mosh South that's not serving any apparent purpose, and it's close to the Gilda/Oritz infoHub, the Mosh "port" build across the river, and the rest of Kama City.  Its fate, too, is certainly not an urgent matter; it's just a bit weird, such a large and elaborate build in such a central location, completely empty.

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I often watched them TP to Zindra sim too, from using Map search, thinking they that sim was 'it'......and as Ive said many times before, I talked to many who never even botherede to TP at all when they looked at the region on the map and saw practcailly nothing. This is one reason ZE lobbied for so long to get the name extended from just 'zindra' to something far more specific (Zindra Entryway, Zindra Promenade, etc). The argument about that simple notion seemd to stall things forever. (before you even get to the region's content debate)

Eventually, LL did agree to extend the name to something more specific but sadly, that was all cut short when staff changed. This simple matter could have been solved then.

As it turns out, we have 'Mosh South' which is just like any other region in SL now and may as well be for sale for whoever wants to buy it and use it for whatever. The concept of that region being anything 'officail' seems off the table. On balance, I'd say its a story of missed opportunity partnered with LL incompetence, but its better this way than the misleading situation that pre-existed.

 

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Incompetence falls on the party that tries to obscure a location void of content by giving it a name that adds no more content to it. 

Incompetence falls on the party that does not understand the importance of  maintaining the simple relationship between a teleportable location called Zindra placed in the middle of a Continent called Zindra that has no mechanism to be teleported to directly.

Incompetence falls on the party that fills a location called Zindra with information about how to age verify, when you indeed have to be age verified to reach said location. 

Incompetence falls on the party that rather develops a gazillion Zindra named locations, than focus on developing THE Zindra location. 

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