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DT Zanzibar

ZINDRA & Zindrans ((Betrayed ?))

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omg and good job i am sitting down to reply....for once i TOTALLY AGREE with Gavin!!!

Zindra is the continent we have all fought for, for over 2 years, marketplace entries 'now located on Zindra the new adult mainland'

NOT Zindra a new info hub privately run in the backwaters by the highest bidder  whose first words are concerning Gor, forced role play and D/s. Where is the advice on simply renting in a region where you can roll naked in the surf, enjoy your adult furnishings and freedoms? or maybe the reception volunteer just wantedx to focus on the 'more interesting extremes'.

If LL had done a half decent job in the first place those newly adult verified would land on a hub in the centre of the continent with a map, with tp points to all the businesses, with land marks to businesses and maybe info cards to all the aspects that make up adult from simple animations, skins, furniture to dungeons, escorts and beyond...A SIM that would be Zindra.

We thought LL's abandonment of the 4 showground sims would result in them being taken over and adopted as a new adult welcome centre.

hey ho....

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Storyof Oh wrote:

omg and good job i am sitting down to reply....for once i TOTALLY AGREE with Gavin!!!

Zindra is the continent we have all fought for, for over 2 years, marketplace entries 'now located on Zindra the new adult mainland'

NOT Zindra a new info hub privately run in the backwaters by the highest bidder  whose first words are concerning Gor, forced role play and D/s. Where is the advice on simply renting in a region where you can roll naked in the surf, enjoy your adult furnishings and freedoms? or maybe the reception volunteer just wantedx to focus on the 'more interesting extremes'.

If LL had done a half decent job in the first place those newly adult verified would land on a hub in the centre of the continent with a map, with tp points to all the businesses, with land marks to businesses and maybe info cards to all the aspects that make up adult from simple animations, skins, furniture to dungeons, escorts and beyond...A SIM that would be Zindra.

We thought LL's abandonment of the 4 showground sims would result in them being taken over and adopted as a new adult welcome centre.

hey ho....

Story, what bidding process do you say there was?  The RFP asked people to submit  proposals for running the centre and paying tier on it, and LL would pick the one they liked best, and, as far as I know, that's what happened.    If there was any sort of auction, it's news to me.

As to your question, "Where is the advice on simply renting in a region where you can roll naked in the surf, enjoy your adult furnishings and freedoms?"  I think the idea is that general advice will be given to people arriving at the main, central, sim, and that people who want to know about something specific will then be directed to one of the more specialist sims, with Zindra West being the one for people who are primarily interested in adult content without the RP.  

 

 

 

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Story is right. It was a bidding process, as in: bidding for a contract. Doesnt necessarily mean an auction. Also, many types of terms can be part of a bid (not just money)

Of course the RFP was all about bidding on a contract for ZEXPO Island, which ended up being a mislead, as we now know.

Story is also right about Zindra being used as a marketing term for almost 2 years. For anyone still doubting the value of the term, ask yourself why LL would bother trying to grant 'exclusive rights' to a term that had no value. Of course it has high value. That value was developed, in fact, by the residents. It only really has accumulated its value due to the tireless efforts of residents and groups. For example, who would even care to try to sell ZEXPO Island if it hadnt already been something worth selling?

The defenders of this blatant marketing mistep (which I am not saying was meant to cause harm at all, and may have been done w/ best intentions)  should at least take the time to consider others' point of view here, such as many expressed in this forum. Wise leadership would include an effort to be inclusive and listen, then make best effort to move forward with consensus.

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I do believe that the concerns about the "mentors" has merit.

I used to help at a certain newbie welcome area and it was a group of 6 private regions.  The original intent sounded altruistic but then they started to rent appartments and shops in the streets.

Greeters were instructed to NOT recommend any location outside of what was offered by this private welcome hub and they were expected to do all that they could to keep the newbie traffic within.

Now i'm not saying that there's any reason to suggest that this will be the same but i've seen it before and so the concern that some are expressing has basis.

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:)  well i guess the highest bidder was the person/group prepared to pick up the tier costs :)  we will not know how long the queue was.

We cannot avoid the fact the 'Zindra' named SIMS are not on nor attached to the 'Zindra' continent.

It will no doubt be business as usual for those on Zindra mark 2 to create their own traffic and business in any which way they can. Let us sincerely hope that those running the Zindra Sims are charitable enough to direct residents to the big picture :)

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If you look at Linden Lab's definition of adult content you will see it is very wide and it also includes violence. To only dedicate one single sim to what is actually the mainstream of adult is a mistake. 

Also people who come in via the map (and I believe that is quite a large proportion, may actually be offended by the sim markings and therefore never choose to go there. People are often, as Story points out, interested in adult content, but not BDSM, D/s, RLV and so on. 

 

It would also be interesting to know what exactly is Innula's stake in this. She seems to be very eager to teach both the  community groups and others what's best for Zindra. ...which is a bit odd given she elected to move from the continent. 

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My interest is, as it has always been, in Adult Content in general (and mine in particular), rather than where it's sold.

I'm certainly not trying to teach "community groups" anything, and particuarly not ones parochial to Zindra.   I never saw the point of participating in them when I was there, after Blondin made it clear we didn't have to belong to anything to attend his meetings, and, to be frank, I've never got the impression at those meetings that the fact someone is  speaking "on behalf of a community group" means his or her word carries any more or less weight with the other people present than anyone else's, so I've taken the view my time is better spent trying to make or sell stuff rather than attending  community group meetings, and I can just turn up on Mondays and say my piece there, and be ignored by LL or not, same as the community groups, if I'm minded to.

What I am trying to do is recommend to others who make and sell adult content -- I don't know about promoting adult clubs and things particularly -- that they do what I've always found works, which is get out try to promote my stuff wherever I can, and on the basis that it's worth buying, rather than on the basis it's sold from the mainland rather than a private estate (or vice versa), which has always seemed to me a preposterous reason for buying something.    To me it makes no difference, as a buyer or a seller, where the business is based.  

I'm absolutely delighted that at last someone's doing something serious about promoting adult content in general and that the debate is being shifted from simply "how do we get LL to help us promote the ten or twenty per cent of adult content that happens to be on Zindra," which proved pretty sterile up to now.   If we still had one of the main stores on Zindra I'd be equally pleased at what seems to me a far bigger opportunity for businesses on Zindra than anything I've seen on Zindra for the last couple of years.

Has the Zindra Alliance actually talked yet to the Adult Content Welcome Centre about ways of cooperating of promote Zindra businesses there?   Seems to me that it would be an ideal place to find people who would be interested in your members' products and venues.

ETA -- I was talking earlier today to one of the people who's helping organise the helpers for new residents at the new Welcome Centre (I was fiddling with my vendors there, and we got chatting) They'd very much welcome volunteers who're interested in helping with Adult Content; seems to me that if concerned ZA members helped with that, it would be a way of ensuring fair play.   

 

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

Has the Zindra Alliance actually talked yet to the Adult Content Welcome Centre about ways of cooperating of promote Zindra businesses there?   Seems to me that it would be an ideal place to find people who would be interested in your members' products and venues.

 

Zindra Alliance has not talked to the Adult Content Welcome Center because we are awaiting two events:

  1. The group meeting on Sunday at noon PDT
  2. The presentation that will be given at the AUG meeting Monday November 14

It is not immediately evident that ZA shall have a direct role in that center – but that is up to the group members to chip in on. 

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Hello Linden lab

 

For the first time i get to see your proposal

it would seem that very little effort was put into propagating it  .... 

• I am a member of both ZA  & ZE, the 2 major & oft too disputative groups who have made the effort to work for Zindra.

(I respect both 'leaders' of those groups even if I feel the need to slap them in a caring way often to get them to work together ..... lols & am sure that both Gina & Counter/Gavin will take umbrage at this ... can't stop me caring )

 

• I am also a reasonably significant stakeholder in Adult mainland

( not trying to bignote myself, more a statement of fact)

 

& I get to see it because I started a forum thread asking what was going on ...

well after the fact

 

Sliding off a 'branded' name away from where it originated  is NOT good marketing practice

especially when all the work & effort has not been made by you (LL)

but by people trying to help your business succeed

 

just shakes my head

I would call it more opaque than transparent

way more negative than positive

 

Re-name your venture partners as Adult Hub Centres (Centers) ... or something similar

NOT as the continent you named for Adult  = Zindra

 

lols .... just realised that I was speaking with my voice from a different avi .... Zan  (DT)

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There is so much I could write regarding the idiocy of this move but no need to simply repeat aspects of the some of the excellent discusion already here.  I think the key points to keep in mind come down to three important areas that any business should be paying close attention to: process, strategy, and operations.  The blunders I see in all three are truly remarkable.

1.  Process: Regardless of the contentiousness of past ACUG meetings and other such venues, it is important to remember that there are many hard-working, energetic, and smart people who have been working on these issues for a long time and have been more than willing to partner with LL in many different areas.  It's one thing for LL to jerk people back and forth as they go from one initiative to another, but this latest move was deliberately opaque.  I want to call it mendacious but will be charitable and simply call it incompetent.  Honestly, the latest LL rep for AC is a disaster.  When will they put an adult in charge of LL's Adult content portfolio?  I know it is easy to rip on big organizations and LL takes plenty of hits across many forums - and sometimes unjustifiably.  But at least on this topic..the way they have managed to alienate what should be some of their key assets in the community is remarkable.

2.  Strategy: I'm not a marketing expert, but there are some basics about branding - yes?  You spend considerable time and effort trying to connect a name (Zindra) with a set of activities or content; you get others - in this case some of your key paying customers - also to invest in promoting this linkage.  They spend considerable time and energy actually helping you build the brand in very practical ways (e.g., adding the name to searchable objects).  They are actually building the pieces to help you establish the brand as you cannot yourself.  After all that...you sell the name to someone new who lives far away from all of the established persons, and you do this because :"The goal of this project is to promote Adult content on the Zindra continent and private estates by establishing a Resident-run welcome area for users interested in exploring this content.
"...which gets me to...

3.  Operations:  by which i mean 'implementation'.  Question for the person who wrote the above which I put in quotes...  Have you looked at this 'Resident-run welcome area' on the Map? - as many of your customers will?  My first thought was:  Seriously?   I thought it was a parody.  Would you find that an inviting place to tp to if you were interested in exploring the many varied experiences of Adult content?

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Well it will be interesting to see how the new Zindra sims will get found, search Zindra and wade through land for sale, Zindra Gateway which is an empty plot, the ex Zexpo sims then Gavins excellent info hub.

No doubt the Gateway was started with the best intentions maybe we should all place a LM there?

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Storyof Oh wrote:

Well it will be interesting to see how the new Zindra sims will get found, search Zindra and wade through land for sale, Zindra Gateway which is an empty plot, the ex Zexpo sims then Gavins excellent info hub.

No doubt the Gateway was started with the best intentions maybe we should all place a LM there?

I`m not seeing these "old zindra" groups as very friendly folks, looking at the language and comments of this topic. I have signed up to all this in the hope of helping people, but i cant say the same for many of the posters here. There are some voices of reason among you, but they seem quickly stamped out.

I dont know much about the "Zindran alliance" and all the other groups, except that you have a reputation for mauling linden reps and crippling infighting. What i see here doesn't dispel that impression.

Personally, i hope that the most vocal people in this topic simply stay away. I am thinking that placing Zindra prime as far away from adult mainland is a move in good sense, so that none of these antagonistic groups try to hijack it.

 

This will be a good thing, run by well meaning people. I want it to stay that way and welcome those few posters here who have been even handed, in the hope that we can move forward with them.

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I'm sorry, Chronometria, but I think that's a bit unfair on the Zindra Alliance (and, indeed, on most people involved in the various Zindra groups).   I've -- for my sins -- attended Adult Content Group meetings with them since Zindra started, and, while clearly I disagree with them over many issues, I've always found them very easy to work with, and I have great deal of time for Gavin, in particular, even though I disgree with him over some fundamental matters.

I really hope after people have had a chance to talk things over with Serjourn on Monday that they'll see this is big opportunity for all of us involved in Adult Content if we're prepared to grasp it.    

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The problem is that the Zindra Alliance and Zindra Resident groups were run by two toxic personalities.

Sorry - but its true. The two of them spent a LOT of energy fighting each other and making angry demands on the Lindens.

I predicted a year ago that the lindens would eventually turn their backs on everyone and tell Zindra it would deserve what it got... and that's come to pass now. People just refused to stop fighting for the greater good.

Now everyone else is getting 'punished' for the personalities of a few... but that's how it goes sometimes.

 

We've got what we got now.

We can keep on fighting, or we can learn to make good this time around.

 

Me, I think I'm going to try to make good. I've toured these new sims now, and I frankly -like- what I see. There are a lot of wide open meeting areas. Not for merchants only, but for everyone - residentials, alt-cultures, social locations, RP organizations, and yes - merchants. I imagine even a land baron could find a happy spot in there.

Already there are landmarks of various places on -other- adult sims going up on advert boards.

Already some small shops are stocking.

But the central areas all point to landmark boards.

 

There are wide open spaces for people to meet, spaces for people to look at walls of landmarks and find a destination, spaces for people to get help.

 

Frankly they're doing it right, so far.

Time will tell.

But as of this moment, the builds are going up the way a community center should. It's looking like an adult version of a mix between Help People Island, The Shelter, and Caledon Oxebridge - except I didn't see a place to hold classes yet.

 

Hmmm... there's an untapped opportunity there, an adult version of NCI classes.

Where people from various themes could come and teach.

Maybe about RP, such as Gor or D/s,

or maybe about building; such as how to build with excite or RLV or multi-pose.

Or maybe about event management in adult themes (how should one run a sex-club and keep it friendly, for example).

Or about... well... escorts... ;)

Ok... back to point, this thing looks like what everyone has wanted all along... just on a non-mainland sim.

Frankly when I compare Help Island / Orientation Island vs. Caledon and Help People Island... I'm kinda glad this is in resident hands. We all know the lindens make a build, staff it for 2 weeks, then see a new shiny and move on... But resident help communities like NCI have been stable and helpful for years.

 

The hurt here, the injury... is that the existing "super-egos" got cut from the table. Frankly some of them deserved that. Not all of them though... but the fighting has just made it too hard to split the wheat from the chaff.

 

This is what happens when people spend so much energy being hurtful and destructive - others abandon them (that's a lesson I know from personal experience).

 

Linden Labs washed its hands of the Zindra groups after a series of fiascos cause mostly by the residents and not LLs... Sure LLs has fumbled a lot with Zindra, but who wouldn't in the hostile environment they face. I've been to those community meetings... I've seen it.

 

Some people like DT don't deserve to be on the short end of this. Sure, DT's a friend of mine so maybe I'm biased. But DT was never part of the 'Zindra wars'. But sadly LL's just washed its hands of the whole scene.

Now that the deed is done, we've got a choice of screaming into the wind, or making do. And the new group here is no a bad one so far, so the making do will actually be quite easy for those who choose to cross the 'picket line' and shake hands.

 

 

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Chrono, I am sure your intentions are pure and positive and no one would wish discredit upon honest intentions such as those. A forum thread like this one, regarding a very sweeping issue (this is big to some people, Chrono) is bound to cultivate an array of responses, sometimes heated. We do try to keep it professional, of course!

It is important to understand that many are affected by this topic, and possibly negatively, so you could try to sit back and see all sides as best as possible. That is one great way to listen and work towards consensus. You can even learn how to improve things that way! There are many great points in this thread, a few off-topic wanderers (it happens) and ocassional snipes (yes, those happen too). Always good to revert back to orginal post to refresh the issue in your mind, I think. DT expressed what many others may feel.

Zindra Expo group, being an LL-created group to help promote adult mainland (and by extension, Adult SL in general) has a long history of working with LL and will always effort to maintain a standard of neutrality and fairness. This also means ZE will often make strong statements that reflect its mission, because the health and welfare of mainland is part of its concern. There will certainly be times when LL's very own actions might be detrimental to this concern, so of course, ZE will make that case known.

Finally, I hope you reverse your wish to keep the vocal ones away. Better to work with them, make the antagonists your friends, to bring them together, no? Seeing the energy and passion in this thread alone should convince anyone that there is an issue here that needs to be addressed. Maybe that can be done with some open minds.

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Your caring is always appreciated. It's been obvious for a long time that your sensibility lines up with the mission of the common good for Adult SL. (my opinion) But please don't slap anyone! (I also have thought abt slapping you but simply refuse to reach that far across the table..haha)

I think the Adult Hub Centres (Centers) name is simple and to the point.Definitely a step in the righter direction.

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Thanks Pussycat, for referring to me as toxic...or a super-ego? (actually a  super-ego is a psychological term that means something you probably didnt intend). Nix personal defamations, please

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

...  making angry demands on the Lindens.

I predicted a year ago that the lindens would eventually turn their backs on everyone and tell Zindra it would deserve what it got... and that's come to pass now.

So you predicted Linden Lab would turn its back on themselves? You do remember they where the ones to create Zindra and started the Zexpo group? :matte-motes-wink:

 

As for the angry demands on Linden, I can only account for the demands put forward by Zindra Alliance:

On the practical side:

  1. Move the location of the Zindra sim from the water sim that plunged everyone visiting Zindra from the map into the bottom of the ocean to the central location that from as of last week is called Mosh South. This was fixed in August 2009 but has now been undone as anyone searching from Zindra on the map will arrive in a location totally different to the 350 Zindra sims. 
  2. Remove the eery green light emitted from Zindra street elements discoloring everything at night. Request raised in August 2009, and fixed about 1 1/2 years later
  3. Removal of active (scripted) street elements on sim borders in Zindra sims that contributes sim cross chatter and laggy sims. Raised in August 2009 and still unresolved. 
  4. Use LDPW resources to fix point 2 and 3 above rather than build the Zindra monorail that nobody ever use, and if you try to, will on sim crossings, land you in interesting locations far from where you intended to go by the rail. 
  5. Contribute to development of the Zindra sim (which was marked for community use) to a friendly gateway, community hub and stage for the Zindra continent. Raised in September 2009 and still unresolved. 

Policy Matters:

  1. Demand that Linden Lab actually follow their own adult content policies, and execute them to eliminate the very large amount of such content still present in Mature sims. The presence of this content in M sims has largely served to marginalize every business that was moved to Zindra because customers could find the content they wanted in M sims (and later on SL Marketplace) without having to go through the hoops of age/adult verifying. This issue is still largely unresolved and was raised from September 2009 and onwards.
  2. Demand that Linden Lab follow their own policy of not running community groups and therefore step out as owners of the zexpo group they created, and stop giving this group preferential treatment. 
  3. Asked that Linden Lab sent an informative email message to all residents with information on how to age/adult verify. This was raised in September 2009, and was finally resolved late October 2011 (Thanks Viale).

 

If you think this is angry or unreasonable, well, then I must be an angry and unreasonable person heading up a group of folks who must be equally angry and unreasonable. 

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Gavin Hird wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:

...  making angry demands on the Lindens.

I predicted a year ago that the lindens would eventually turn their backs on everyone and tell Zindra it would deserve what it got... and that's come to pass now.

As for the angry demands on Linden, I can only account for the demands put forward by Zindra Alliance:

On the practical side:
  1. Remove the
  2. Removal of
  3. Use LDPW resources to fix point 2 and 3 above rather than build the Zindra monorail that nobody ever use
  4. Contribute to development of the Zindra sim (which was marked for community use) to a friendly gateway, community hub and stage for the Zindra continent. Raised in September 2009 and still unresolved. 

Policy Matters:
  1. Demand that Linden Lab
  2. Demand that Linden Lab

 

If you think this is angry or unreasonable, well, then I must be an angry and unreasonable person heading up a group of folks who must be equally angry and unreasonable. 

Its the tone that counts.

And the fact that it often came with angry letters sent to anyone in ZA with personal attacks aimed at members of Z-Expo, or at Lindens.

That at meetings these points were always pushed from a hostile tone. Demands.

That people were often shouting at each other.

That the groups put forth a merchants first, everyone else last policy.

All sorts of attitude issues...

 

The list is good and valid. The way it's been pushed has caused the Lindens to do the exact opposite of the things requested...

You can't manage a relationship from a point of hostility and anger. You can't go to a meeting with someone and spend the entire time yelling and name calling at other people in that meeting, and/or the person you're there to meet with - and expect results.

 

Tone is everything. Often more important than message, if you want a message to get across successfully.

 

 

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Tone ie everything.

Pussycat, Linden Lab DEMANDS that residents, or customers as we call it in the context of Zindra (since all initial residents were businesses and land owners) follow their policies and TOS, or be banned, expelled, content destroyed, no refunds.

It is there for not unreasonable that customers DEMAND that Linden Lab enforce  and follow their own policies, if for nothing else to bring fairness to the table. 

The people who were initially moved to Zindra were marginalized to the extent many of them went out of business or saw 70-80% reduction in revenue due to this lack of enforcement. This is were the hostility stems from. And rightfully so.

It is also not uncommon in business that customers have requirements, with a service partner like Linden Lab. Requirements that needs to be fullfilled for it to be interesting to do business with Linden Lab. 

You need to direct your critisims where it belongs; at the former Linden rep who did nothing but split the community. 

Thankfully, the current Linden client rep has brought some sense back to the madness that prevailed. 

 

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And yet, look at where that tone you're using has brought things.

Which is all that needs to be said.

I'm not saying your points are invalid, save for the merchant first policy of ZA - but that presentation was hostile, full of arguing, and the two Zindra groups spent most of their energy since 2009 constantly fighting rather than setting egos aside and working for a common cause. You two are playing nice in the forum here, but everyone in ZA got the notecards that were getting sent out earlier in the year...

The only thing that has changed in the last few days is that LL's no longer sees ZA/Z-Expo as the relevant representatives for adult users on the grid.

My guess is they have made this change because it was an unworkable relationship.

But for those of us not in prominant positions in ZA/Z-Expo, today is the same as yesterday. Little has changed for any user or resident of adult content - be they on zindra or estate. Though soon there will be a permanent set of 'expo-like' sims - if anything that's a blessing for the larger adult community.

 Granted I still think the name is a branding confusion issue...

 

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The majority of adult-interested residents must be asking themselves "What's all the fuss?"  Or to the Zindra groups, "Why so intent on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory?"

Recent changes that Viale shepherded through the Lab are having dramatically favorable effects on adult content in SL, and by extension, Zindra.  The new verification process and the adult content reminder emails -- this is exactly what we've been desperately trying to get, ever since the adult content policy was established.  It makes all the difference--and that's much more difference than any promotion driven by a resident group ever has or ever could.

Is this the Lab washing its hands of Zindra?  On the contrary, the Lab's recent moves embrace adult content as an essential factor in the ongoing success of Second Life.  How much more obvious can they make it, short of themselves becoming smut-peddlers like the rest of us?

Are they going to give preferential treatment to adult Mainland over Estates?  Why should they?  Oh, sure, the forced migration to an adult continent was more disruptive than what Estate-based folks went through, but not by a lot, and that was ages ago.  

So if there's some way to use the "Zindra" name to benefit adult content in general, I want to see it happen. And "Zindra" is most useful as a name for an adult welcome center:  As we've all known for a long time, "Zindra" is a search term used almost exclusively by residents new to SL or to adult content; veteran residents with adult interests don't search for "Zindra" and explore from there.

The one exception might be land buyers, and that could pose a problem, especially if parcels on adult mainland are not able to use "Zindra" in the parcel name.  Of course, there is only this one continent of adult mainland, and it's easy to filter for Adult maturity and mainland-only--in fact, query text wasn't even possible in Land Sales searches for years--so I don't know how big a problem this really is.  It may be something to ask the Lab's search folks to answer: how many Land Sales searches use "Zindra" in the query?

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Again you are twarting reality.

The two groups did not exist in 2009. 

Zindra Alliance was started by Jago in July 2009 when the continent was opened. It immediately came under attack by Lias Leandros and some other individuals "because we were corrupt" when we got Linden Lab to move the Zindra sim to dry land. (!) 

The group initially held public meetings in the Bronlen cafe to help sort out issues newcomers had when populating Zindra, but Blondin started to host the meetings as his office hours because (the same) people had been screaming over themselves that "ZA was not public or official". – Like Bay City Alliance it was never ment to be, and Linden Lab is not in the business of running community groups.

The screaming from Lias et al continued throughout the fall to the point Jago gave up and I took over the group in Jan 2010 because nobody else wanted it.  We changed the group charter to what it currently is, and as you know we wanted a business focused expo in 2010 to help our members recover some of the lost business. This was when the Zexpo group was formed in a strange liason between Lias and Blondin. 

If you remember, there was a lot of fuzz over this because virtually nobody wanted Lias in charge of an expo, but Blondin refused to let the community vote over who would manage the group.

This is also when Ginette entered the scene, she joined forces with Lias in the zexpo group but the two ladies soon muted each other and returned each others prims, and the first zexpo limped along and became a marginal success due to outstanding efforts the last week from people who were there only as exhibitors. 

I can't speak on behalf of ZE, but not much has changed for ZA because of this portal. The portal is Linden Lab's effort to help adult content in SecondLife. I personally think the placement of the portal sims in combination with the names are unfortunate for Zindra the continent but it is not make or break. 

You say that "The only thing that has changed in the last few days is that LL's no longer sees ZA/Z-Expo as the relevant representatives for adult users on the grid." Again I can't speak for ZE, but ZA is a group for businesses and residents on the Zindra continent, and we have never tried to be a repesentative for adult users on the grid as such. We have exactly the same role as we had before the portal. 

What may not be so good is that these portal sims now seems to be converted into a gigantic DG fed shopping mall, and if that is the case, it will not serve any other sims at all when it comes to feeding them traffic. 

 

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To my mind, the main problem with Blondin's meetings being such bad-tempered affairs wasn't the way (most) people interacted with Blondin; it was the way they kept on degenerating into bickering, frequently deteriorating into open fights, between different resident groups, usually about plans for the Zindra sim and Zexpo.    In my view, a great deal of the blame for this belongs to one particular resident,  whose name no longer appears in search for whatever reason, but while her departure ameliorated things for a while, it didn't really cure the damage that had already been done.

I wholly agree that Viale's putting his foot down has really turned things round and that now meetings are much more pleasant and productive, but I really don't think all the past failings in the way meetings were conducted  are his predecessor's fault.   

 

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Gavin Hird wrote:

What may not be so good is that these portal sims now seems to be converted into a gigantic DG fed shopping mall, and if that is the case, it will not serve any other sims at all when it comes to feeding them traffic. 

Sorry for two consecutive replies, but you posted while I was writing the previous one.

Have you visited the Welcome Centre sims recently? They're still under construction but they're like no mall I've ever seen.

Yes, there's a lot of vendors and advertising there, because they've got to cover their tier -- at the private estate level, rather than the much lower mainland rate. But there's pots of open space for meetings and classes, or just exploring. And there's a monorail that works.

Certainly no mall with which I've ever dealt would do what happened yesterday -- they'd put out the adboards on the BDSM sim on Thursday and then, on Friday, they relocated them all because they realised, when they looked at them on the ground rather than on a model, they were too obtrusive and unsightly (I know about this because I'd taken one,and I asked why my money had been returned). 

Inara Pey, who doesn't have an axe to grind about this, wrote what I thought was a very good blog piece about the build.

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