Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
DT Zanzibar

ZINDRA & Zindrans ((Betrayed ?))

Recommended Posts

Potted history

• LL create a continent named Zindra to house all mainland adult activities

• Users conducting adult activities on old mainland either relocate or are 'migrated' to Zindra

• the continent grows to some 358 sims ... all of which are Zindra including 1 sim named Zindra

• People spend 2 years working & investing in Zindra ... promoting & marketing ZINDRA as the ADULT continent

 

Some one in Linden Lab has right royally messed up & has allowed the use of the name ZINDRA by a private estate

Zindra West,  Zindra South,  Zindra East,  Zindra North & Zindra Prime are new private estate sims & are all owned by "Adult Hub"  group ...

they are not connected to, nor have anything to do with the Adult mainland continent called Zindra

 

As one who has invested substantially in the REAL ZINDRA Mainland, both time & money

I am outraged by this mismanagement

 

I wonder what may follow if this is not rectified ....

the slow death of mainland ??

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see why anyone would use a continent name to find anything.  Really, they're just nicknames for a cluster of mainland sims and the sims get their own names. (o.O)

My joint is in Jonesford Heights.  Not "Zindra".  If people are going to find my place, they have to seek it out as such.  I'm not going to rely on any "Zindra" lore as a marketing strategy. (=_=)

What do you actually lose now that there are estate sims named after the nickname of a continent? (o.O)

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand why many dont think the name 'Zindra' is relevant. The point is: as DT wrote, LL created that and marketed it...and in turn, resdidents used the name to market too. We are 'stuck with it' for better or worse. Just about the dumbest thing you can do is take that bit of identity away and have it co-opted. It's like someone spitting in your last drop of cold coffee.

Anyway, even if you dont think Zindra name matters, realize that this is ACTIVE undermining. It migth affect YOU. People may actually search by Zindra (hey, it happens) and land on a privately-owned mini-continent. Its called public confusion and it will affect business on mainland, and beyond.

And even if you dont believe that, you migth see this is an unethical move in any case.

Outrage should be widespread in my opinion .

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like the new resident group operated Zindra welcome hub to me. LL took bids on it. This has been in the works for some time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must say I am pretty surprised over this move from Linden Lab. 

I have been supportive of the portal as such – particularly since we wanted to develop the Zindra sim as the portal for the continent and use it as the gateway for the sims there, and to build and market "destination Zindra".

By completely removing the association to the continent by moving Zindra named sims off to a private estate, LL has effectively torpedoed the work done by many parties.

I must say I am very surprised that moving the Zindra sim(s) off the mainland has never even been mentioned as a possibility in the many weekly and bi-weekly meetings LL has conducted with the community in Zindra. 

If LL wants an all adult portal, then they should name it accordingly, and not use a name that has long been established as the 350 or so sims of the Zindra continent. 

For the Zindra Alliance,

Gavin 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Usual LL buggers muddle - they have proved incapable of dealing sensibly with adult issues for years. Or perhaps this is step 2 in a grand master plan to spin  the whole of Zindra off to a conglomerate with deep pockets and a taste for milking the lucrative adult market. Now we have all been ghettofied it would sooooo much easier to completely sell  Zindra out. Food for thought!

^L^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've mentioned this in another thread, but I'll pose the question here, too.

Way back when Zindra started, in 2009, I tp-d to the Zindra sim (now called Mosh something or other) to take a look and found myself under the floor there, in the river, apparently because the tp arrivals point had been wrongly set.   I had a moan to Blondin about it at his office hours and forgot about it.

The next time I visited the place was a couple of years later,  just after they simplified the adult verification procedures and I tested them by creating an alt, confirming that the date of birth I'd provided was accurate and saying I wanted to see adult content.   Then I TPd her to Zindra from the map, and she found herself under the floor, in the water, too.   I was a bit snarky about this in the official forum and in SLU and Viale IMd me a day or so later to say it was fixed.

My question to all the people who're concerned about marketing Zindra as a destination is, how come, over the course of the last two years, did no one apparently notice that the first sight of Zindra seen by anyone who was persuaded to look for Zindra on the map and TP there was the bottom of the river (not a particularly inspiring place), and kick up a fuss about this?  

Or maybe people did notice but thought it didn't matter?   I'm no marketing expert, but I'd have thought it should have done.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Innula,

I cannot count the number of times Zindra Alliance asked Blondin or Michael Linden to fix the landing point – which sometimes was done but then undone at a later time. 

The Zindra sim was basically as it was as per agreement with Blondin Linden and Ginette in the zexpo group. The setup totally sucked, with just about the only information there being how to adult/age verify in a location you needed to be adult/age verified to even reach. Duh!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We could always go back to calling the continent "Ursula" as it was originally. :matte-motes-silly:

I'm fine with the Adult gateway being on estate sims instead of mainland -- in fact, I suggested to Viale that the bidders get that option, to give them more ability to manage griefers without having to involve Lindens every time somebody confuses "adult content" with "juvenile misbehavior."

I do think, however, that the decision to plant the new Adult gateway at the extreme opposite side of the grid from the Adult Mainland continent is almost unfathomably stupid on the part of the owners.  It may not be good for the Adult Mainland, either, but for those owners it must represent the single largest voluntary destruction of value in the long history of Second Life clusterf*cks.

They could have had an arrangement to rival the United Sailing Sims' setup, just by asking to connect to the northwestern corner of the continent, near the new premium adult sandbox sims, with all those gorgeous and largely unused water sims.

Instead, they seem to have committed to an idea of expansion in four directions from the "Zindra Prime" core sim. That's not a totally hare-brained scheme if they were forced to keep separate from the continent, but it's a disastrously bad choice compared to what they could have had instead.  

I'm not entirely surprised that the Lindens didn't press them to make a better choice, but why the heck didn't they insist on it themselves?  WTF could they have been thinking??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the plan was to separate adult content out in a different entity, moving the portal off the content, and remove the main association with the name does not make much sense. 

Separating out adult into a separate (legal) entity could actually be a very good idea if done right (I have posted to the extent on a general basis in the Merchanst forum.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Gavin Hird wrote:

Innula,

I cannot count the number of times Zindra Alliance asked Blondin or Michael Linden to fix the landing point – which sometimes was done but then undone at a later time. 

Thanks, Gavin.  I hadn't realised the ZA had been trying, at least, to get it fixed.   Why weren't people kicking up a fuss at ACUG meetings about this (maybe they did, but not when I was around and I've attended most of them, except at one point when even I found them unbearable)?   

But, it really brought it home to me, when my newly-verified alt (who was at least using Phoenix and knew how to cam up and double-click physics tp herself to dry land -- she'd probably still be there otherwise) escaped from the trap, and I looked around and thought, "we've spent two bloody years arguing about what to do with this dump".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, there is only so much fuzzing people are interested in doing before simply giving up. This is supposed to be a place for people to have a good time, yeah, and not add to the general grind most feel in our first lives? 

One would think though, that the sim owner – unless they wanted to attract sea creatures, was interested in landing visitors on dry land as a minimum of courtesy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Imnotgoing Sideways wrote:

I don't see why anyone would use a continent name to find anything.  

For 90% of Zindra's history there was a sim in the middle of Zindra named Zindra.

It made it super easy to get to the continent and start exploring.

That sim is now named: Mosh South.

Having a private estate named Zindra causes serious branding confusion.

 

It'd be like me making my own MMO called 'Second Life' - naturally, this SL would lose people to it. I'd get sued.

Imagine is LL's put out a new MMO tomorrow called Second Life. What do you think would happen to this world we all love if it suddenly had no name?

 

 

This is not like the names of the other continents, which I can't even recall and google fails to find... Zindra is a branded name.

Threads like this are typical:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Land/Mainland-continent-names/qaq-p/693722/comment-id/410

- People know Zindra, but can't name the others.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will be one of the new adult mentors operating out of Zindra Prime and its satellite sims.

 

The adult mainland is a tremendously confusing and unwelcoming place for newcomers and i think that it will be a very positive thing to have a focused, well run and staffed entry point that gives adult newcomers a good perspective on different communites (such as gor) that they may want to get involved in. I am really looking forward to taking part in what i see as a larger version of "the shelter", where volunteers help orient new users purely with donations of their time.

As to whether it should have been set up on the actual mainland, well, considering the fact that its already taken and is rife with land sellers and other issues, i`m quite happy that its in a protected sim where problems can be quickly dealt with and layout is under the complete control of the sim owners and not at the whim of the grid. In addition, freedom continent has some fantastic expertise, including very experienced adult users, many of whom teach or have connections to long standing and top rated areas like bondage ranch.

I feel that this will benefit the adult mainland greatly, not least in cleaning up its image and making it more publicly presentable, thereby attracting more residents to stick around and to settle on the adult mainland proper or to attend the attractions and services found there.

I cant speak for the mentoring team or for those currently setting up the new sims, but i will say that from what i have seen, there are a lot of dedicated people prepared to put in their utmost for this to be a success.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only reason why adult mainland is confusing and unwelcoming is that Linden Lab through their group zexpo has made it so.

If it was up to the residents of Zindra there would have been a well run portal in the Zindra sim since September 2009. This has been dodged and worked against by their then current Linden Rep since the idea was conceived. That is the truth!

I am also interested in what exactly it is these mentors think adults need guidance on for their adult life in SecondLife? (apart from technical stuff that can be confusing with huds, attachments and animations.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont think anyone would discredit the hard work and energy people might bring to such an adult hub, and Im sure everyone would hope for success, but the circumstances in which this has transpired is a tale filled with duplicity and lack of ethics on the part of LL.

1. How things are done matters

2. The ripple effects matter

In the end, we have a misleading situation that redirects residents to a mini-mainland under false pretenses, due to name confusion. Calling those regions 'Zindra-whatever' is wrong on so many levels.

Calling Zindra or Adult SL 'a mess' is a popular assumption, but it hides the fact many of us do well for ourselves (and what mainland isnt a cluttered mess, anyway). Guess what? I actually don't need an LL hub to help me get traffic to my sim.  This hub idea, in fact, could detract traffic AWAY from sims. Yes, that's right. It's called, once again, public confusion.

It's all in the name(s)...luckily, its easy to fix. Just change those names.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(...in reply to gavin)

 

Well, a new adult user will want to know about the various communities they can get involved in and how to do that. Thus, there is a sim dedicated to showcasing goreans as an example. The area of RLV is one that a new adult user would need help with, so getting collars, relays, how to use many of the adult oriented products on the market. The basics of sex and relationships in second life can be daunting as well, with the simple issue of how to get an "anatomicaly correct" avatar (male especially) being one that many people are forced to seek advice on.

Add to that the folks who just want to meet an adult verified mentor who can help them grapple with the basics of the viewer etc and we will likely be very busy indeed.

There is a heck of a lot that a new adult user requires guidance with, including directing them to classes about responsibilities in D/s relationships and the prevention of abuse (such as those forceme silverspar runs).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are absolutely right Ginette!

The contours of this is the making of a set of sims which will stall visitors in the portal, as oposed to the approach Zindra Alliance have promoted, where the purpose of the gateway was to get people out into, have fun and make business in the Zindra sims. 

I also fear we now are in the process of adding 2 layers separating potential visitorsfrom the Zindra sims, where level 1 is the DG which has very limited bandwidth, and the second layer being the portal acting as the fly paper. 

What Zindras asked for was more visibility for their businesses, not less. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IDK, maybe it is just me, but I feel this reeks too much of a nanny-state. Adult persons are perferctly capable of figuring out how to build relationships and be responsible on their own by using their RL experience, where they have been taught the same. (And I live in a total nanny state the Swdish government once called the last Soviet republic because of it, where they try to interfere in just about every aspect of your life to shape you. The last idea is government run walking groups for male parents when they have maternity leave (forced).) 

The technical aspects you describe are – yes confusing, but could be equally left to the suppliers of these bits and pieces to do a better and concerted job. That includes the Lab itself. 

One question that springs to mind is how do we know these mentors don't send new residents to the businesses of their alts? Is there a plan for transparency in this? What about 24/7 staffing issues? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chrono, with all due respect, it should not be the priveledge of any private organisation acting with official LL endorsement, to determine what the categories of SL sexlife are, and to determine what lifestyles are to be promoted via guidance. Getting into the lifestyle business is a losing game if you are supposed to be a neutral and representative hub.

A truly representational hub would not prioritize any specific lifestyles, companies, religions or politics. It is possible to promote EVERYONE but it is discriminatory to pick and choose.

You have a region for furries? What about Sister-only sims? Vampire sex fiends? the list goes on. You cannot possibly accomodate the infinity of human expression this way and prioritzie those you think deserve the most atetntion. To try to do it, with official LL endorsement, is going to end in discriminatory practices, no matter how hard you try.

There are many ways to do this fairly, and to keep the image 'clean' as it were, but teaching new arrivals how to collar themselves isnt it. This is LL micromanagement to the extreme.

PS - I realize this is straying from DT's thread....will take it elsewhere asap

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been told that there is a code of behaviour being put in place, though the mentors have not yet been briefed as all energy is currently going into putting the sims together and doing a lot of organising work behind the scenes.

 

As to 24/7 staffing, well, i dont think anywhere in second life can guarantee that when using a volunteer force. Still, the mentors are from a range of time zones (i am GMT as is my partner), so one would hope for a good coverage. The shelter is a much smaller outfit and they have always had a mentor whenever i have popped in, despite being a volunteer group.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gavin Hird wrote:

One question that springs to mind is how do we know these mentors don't send new residents to the businesses of their alts? Is there a plan for transparency in this? 

We know that the same way people know that you don't have an alt who's up to something disreputable.    

That is, we don't, or at least not in the same way we know the sun rises in the east, or that I can prove in RL, if necessary, I have no criminal convictions in the UK, but we have no reason to suspect it's the case, and -- at least if we're fair and reasonable -- we expect the person saying "how do we know it's not true?" to provide some evidence to suggest it might be before he or she starts making that sort of suggestion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...