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tasha35

the new ver 2 update sucks

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

Okay, think of things this way - the vast majority of people who use the UI of a computer program use it as a means to accomplish SOMETHING ELSE. The UI is a tool that should function transparently without their trying to think about it. Think of it as a "language". With the exception of linguists, most people use languages to do SOMETHING ELSE instead of thinking about the structure of the language itself. All of Earth's languages have strengths and weaknesses, and most people find it easy to use the language they learned from birth and more-or-less difficult to use any other one unless they've had time to learn and work with it, and they probably won't embrace new languages unless they have a compelling reason to do so.

The whole problem started with Viewer 2. Imagine a country that speaks French. The leaders announce, "Studies show that it's easier for new people to learn Spanish than French, so from now on all new residents will be taught Spanish and new laws and regulations will be issued in that language. We encourage all of you to start speaking Spanish now. Have a nice day."

And that worked just about as well as you'd expect. The French speakers felt no reason to learn Spanish, especially when they discovered that many of the new works were badly written because the writers themselves weren't completely fluent in Spanish yet. When new residents came to them speaking pidgin Spanish most of the older residents, many of them not terribly friendly to those who didn't even speak French well, encouraged the new people to speak French instead "because it's easier and better." For those who already spoke it, of course.

However, there were other new residents who learned Spanish and found themselves fluent in it. They found many French speakers to be stubborn and annoying and French itself to be a clunky and difficult-to-use language compared to Spanish. So in essence, the country found itself a little Canada or Belgium, struggling with two different languages and having difficulty advancing with the language conflicts.

So the leaders decided to try to address this. After an interesting experiment limiting new residents to the vocabulary of a Spanish translation of "Go Dog, Go," they decided to attempt to work out a compromise that would appeal to both camps.

So, one Tuesday evening most of the Spanish speakers woke up to discover that they were suddenly expected to speak Catalan (the dialect of eastern Spain that's sort of halfway between French and Spanish but not instantly understandable to either.) There was dancing in the streets of Barcelona, but other than that there was understandably mass confusion. Some French speakers were pleased that the heathen Spanish speakers were now expected to speak a language that was "better" because it was closer to French, but most of them just kept on speaking French because they were used to it. Many Spanish speakers rebelled and declared they'd just keep speaking Spanish. AND the new Catalan works reached even FEWER people than the Spanish ones did.

I'm not going to say anything about the relative merits of "French", "Spanish" or "Catalan" as languages. Because of how I was "born" into SL I prefer the Viewer 2 "Spanish" of my birth, but have learned "Catalan" and function well in it as I HAD ADVANCED NOTICE because I poked around and found out about the change and HAD A COMPELLING REASON TO because not-yet-released versions of the Viewer 3.2 model fix my crashing problems.

However, the way the rollout of 3.2 was handled, with little advance notice and no training for 3.1 users and many bug fixes for the OpenGL libraries not yet included, was BREATHTAKINGLY IDIOTIC. Everyone who is upset has good reason to be upset and I have no idea how Linden Labs is going to win back people now. Personally, I think Linden Labs should change their logo to a hand with its palm over a face because that's what I do when I think about things like this.

 

I agree with this 100 percent. I started with V2 and have used it since. With the current change, i found i simply couldnt use the new setup at all. Even with the ability to move things to the side of the screen, they dont go into the top left, they stick in the middle. When speech is minimised, it vanishes, instead of being built into the bottom where you can click to speak. I had to go back to v 3.1 in order to do anything and thats where i`ll be staying.

Older users all left for phoenix and firestorm, or even v1. My viewer has now changed to the point where it doesnt please them and it doesnt please me either. It is alienating those who actually chose to stick with it.

I know nobody else in my circle of friends who isnt firestorm and now i am going to have to stick with 3.1 as are many people who uninstalled this horrible update. It was crippling, disorienting and i know that when i am mentoring new users, my version is so different to theirs that i wont be able to help them at all.

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Chronometria wrote:

Older users all left for phoenix and firestorm, or even v1. My viewer has now changed to the point where it doesnt please them and it doesnt please me either. It is alienating those who actually chose to stick with it.

I started over four years ago, so maybe I qualify as an "older user". I've seen and I've used all kinds of viewers during that time. Linden Lab viewers V1, V2, V3. Various TPV viewers V1 based, V2 based, V3 based. Some viewers I have liked, some not so much. Some have been my favourites, like Phoenix and then Firestorm. I have never felt "alienated".

Surely there is always learning curve when changing from viewer what one has used for long time. Seeing all the complaints how many are complaining about viewer upgrades and changes, I might consider myself lucky as I don't have any difficulties in learning different UIs. In fact I'm always curious to learn and try out new things. Learning new is actually fun. Only by thoroughly trying out the new things one can see are they suitable for ones needs or not. Short usage and leaving it with **I hate it** is not enough.

"Only thing what is permanent is change" has a lot of truth in it. We have to adjust ourselves to it, or else be left behind.

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"I started over four years ago, so maybe I qualify as an "older user". I've seen and I've used all kinds of viewers during that time. Linden Lab viewers V1, V2, V3. Various TPV viewers V1 based, V2 based, V3 based. Some viewers I have liked, some not so much. Some have been my favourites, like Phoenix and then Firestorm. I have never felt "alienated".

Surely there is always learning curve when changing from viewer what one has used for long time. Seeing all the complaints how many are complaining about viewer upgrades and changes, I might consider myself lucky as I don't have any difficulties in learning different UIs. In fact I'm always curious to learn and try out new things. Learning new is actually fun. Only by thoroughly trying out the new things one can see are they suitable for ones needs or not. Short usage and leaving it with **I hate it** is not enough.

"Only thing what is permanent is change" has a lot of truth in it. We have to adjust ourselves to it, or else be left behind."

Coby, much of what you say is true, but I assume you had some choice in the matter and consciously experimented with new viewers in a time frame you determined. Linden Labs didn't announce they were changing the UI Tuesday night, it isn't even mentioned in the release notes, and the web page STILL hasn't acknowledged it. And the LL viewers default to automatic update. You and I have enough experience to shut this off, but as you're using a beta and I'm using a developer release we have more than the average amount of SL savvy.

As it happens, I have a partner in SL that I'm devoted to. The only time I can count on seeing her is for an hour-and-a-half on Tuesday nights. Imagine how I would have reacted if I'd logged on to see her and downloaded the latest upgrade, expecting it to be simple bug fixes, and found my precious time with her was spent trying to find where all my controls had gone. I would have been BEYOND alienated.

I like new things; I'm willing to change if I'm given a good reason to. But concerning how this update was handled? I'd have to say that "It sucks" is a pretty fair assessment.

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When i logged in for first time with the development viewer 3.2 (about a month ago) i had predicted 2 things:

a)That we will have many negative reactions with the new UI and

b)That many users, especially new ones will be totally lost with it.

As i am watching the threads here in Forums and in SL QA my feeling is that i was right.

Personally, being very familiar with all versions of V2 and V3, i can't say that i like more the new UI, as it has pros and cons compared to the old one. I suggest that we all should welcome the new version no matter what, as it is for our interest to keep our minds open to new ideas and developments. So i welcome the new try from LL but i have my doubts whether is easier and more user friendly especially to the new residents.

Finally i have to say that it 's everybody's right to become familiar with the new version, as with everything new, or use alternative options that he prefers (TPV).

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I really like your analogy. However, what is the goal of V2/3? There are two that I can think of. The first is to be more like Facebook to sign-up and retain more residents. The second is to implement mesh so that more realistic appearing objects and clothing can be rendered without requiring residents to use supercomputers.

The Facebook goal is an epic fail. Eighty percent of users sufficiently dislike V2/3 that they use a TPV V1 style despite V2/3 having an enormous advantage as the default download. If V2/V3 was on Facebook, it would get very few likes. Maybe when V2/3 is in use by at least 50% of the the use baser I'll consider it. At the moment, it's like a product in the SL Marketplace with an average rating of one star. 

The second goal is also a huge failure. They've got mesh implemented, but instead of mesh clothing conforming to avatar shapes, the shapes have to conform to the mesh. That needs to be fixed post-haste. Until then, V2/3 deserves an average rating of one star. 


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Randall Ahren wrote:

The second goal is also a huge failure. They've got mesh implemented, but instead of mesh clothing conforming to avatar shapes, the shapes have to conform to the mesh. That needs to be fixed post-haste. Until then, V2/3 deserves an average rating of one star.


Well, when they released mesh they thought that it wouldn't be used much for clothing. As we have seen just the opposite happened. Clothing seems to be one of biggest target for mesh.

Anyway, Linden Lab is well aware now of the situation and they are investigating ways how to make mesh better suitable for clothes. In the latest mesh group meeting last Monday they stated that soon they will have something to tell how things are advancing towards this goal.

There is a JIRA where we can state our opinion about this matter. One again, to have also your voice heard go to:

Request for Rigged Mesh Parametric Deformer

Click "Vote" and "Watch". The more watchers there are on JIRA topic, the more important Linden Lab will consider the issue.

 

Worth noting: In the JIRA, positive feedback and suggestions how to improve badly implemented things always has better effect than just stating "huge failure, fix it". Even Linden Lab personnel are just people... :robotvery-happy:

 

 

JIRA (Bug Tracker) is the place where to report bugs, make suggestions for new features and enhancements. That is the only official place where we can have our voice heard to Linden Lab in regard to viewer development. We can exchange our opinions in the forums, but it has absolutely no effect to viewer development.

 

What are the forums for?

"The Second Life Forums are the best place to exchange ideas, advice and experiences in Second Life with other Second Life Residents. Although moderators and Linden Lab employees will often read activity in the Forums, we will usually only comment only when a piece of content is flagged as inappropriate. This is not the right place to give Linden Lab product feedback."

 

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This new viewer is a big change for sure. Many of the changes peopel will adjust too. However, when I tried to upload a texture, I found that all uploads where grey out. So I will hold off on updating intil the next update when hopefully uploads are once again availabie

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Just tested, uploads work in "Second Life 3.2.1 (244227) Nov 1 2011 07:01:35 (Second Life Beta)".

Maybe the official (non-beta) has a bug, I haven't tried it.

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I too hated this new update when I first tried it. But to be fair, I always hate the new versions at first. Then I try it for a week, get used to everything, and all is right with the world again. :smileyvery-happy:

LL is TRYING to please everyone. Imagine how hard that must be! The new updated version allows the USER to choose whether they want their buttons on the bottom, left, or right. Allowing the user the ability to CHOOSE their own layout in hopes of making everyone happy so people will quit griping and complaining and maybe, just MAYBE, we can stop having to install updates every week or so.

The viewer is basically the same, just revamped to allow customization. Newest users should just do their homework and toggle around till they figure out how everything works.

Alas, as much as some of us might cringe at the thought...change is inevitable. :smileywink:

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What's hilarious is the fact that there are people who are NOT complaining about the new UI. Because it DOES SUCK!! I was pleased when V2 first came out...the UI was perfect. I couldn't wait to get away from V1. After a few more updates and tons of bug fixes (and switching to Kirstens...R.I.P) it got even better. Loved the sidebar.  Now I've been thrown a curve ball. You can't do ANYTHING without it opening a floater on the far side of the screen. Open this..open that..need to do this? Better open up another one!!! I hate it! Maybe you enjoy having floaters in your face all the time and constantly hitting the X. I don't. Hey I enjoy change as well..but to go from new back to old again isn't the sort of change I'm thrilled about. The sidebar kept everything neat and in order. What the hell was wrong with that?? Firestorm will soon be adapting to this new UI so I have been trying my best to give it a chance. Yet I cringe every time I log into V3. It's V1 all over again...only with fancy skin :smileyfrustrated:

Not trying to give V1 lovers a hard time.Just my opinion that we should be moving forward, not backwards. If Linden Labs could come up with a way to where we could have the option of switching to the UI of our choice...V1,V2, or V3..Everybody would be happy. Aye but then issues of codeing become a problem >.<

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