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Bobo Bolero

Will "Coffee and Power" replace Second Life?

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The NY TImes reported on November 6 - in an article by Quentin Harvey - that Second Life founder Philip Rosedale has put his efforts and enthusiasm into a work exchange service called "Coffee and Power." Does this new interest signal the demise of Second Life? In the article Rosedale refers to Second Life in the past tense.

The problem with creating an immersive 3-D experience is that it is just too involved, and so it’s hard to get people to engage,” he said. “Smart people in rural areas, the handicapped, people looking for companionship, they love it. But you have to be highly motivated to get on and learn to use it.

it's unclear to me if SL is in his past or if it will soon be in our shared past as well. What do you think? Does Second Life have a future?

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The inworld group Coffee and Power has been created to compliment the Real World Coffee and Power.

It is my hope that Second Life does have a future.

There are a lot more of us than just smart country folk, disabled, and lonely persons.

It is my belief that those of us who truly love SL will keep it going, or if not, well, you can have my spot on the life boat :(

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Philip isn't really involved with SL any more anyway. And even when he was, he launched his "Love Machine" thing, and that didn't kill off SL.

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Coffe and Power and SL are too compeltly different things ... replacing one with the other would be like replacing a spoon with a fork and try to eat soup with it.

So no. Not likely at all and besides Phillip having launched both, those are done and run by different people for a different buisness model as well.

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Bobo Bolero wrote:

The NY TImes reported on November 6 - in an article by Quentin Harvey - that Second Life founder Philip Rosedale has put his efforts and enthusiasm into a work exchange service called "Coffee and Power." Does this new interest signal the demise of Second Life? In the article Rosedale refers to Second Life in the past tense.

The problem with creating an immersive 3-D experience is that it is just too involved, and so it’s hard to get people to engage,” he said. “Smart people in rural areas, the handicapped, people looking for companionship, they love it. But you have to be highly motivated to get on and learn to use it.

it's unclear to me if SL is in his past or if it will soon be in our shared past as well. What do you think? Does Second Life have a future?

As long as the residents want there to be a future for SL, then SL will have a future.  Philip Rosedale moved on to different projects quite a while ago now, and the evolution of Second Life has been jogging along at quite a pace, with decent concurrency figures being published to date, so I would think, unless something drastic happens, like the massive quake hits LA and wipes out all the servers, Second Life does have a future. Of course it will last a whole lot longer if the mesh-lovers can convince the non-mesh folk to go mesh :matte-motes-tongue::matte-motes-grin:

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Coffee & Power is crowd sourcing. Notice how crowd sourcing the SL viewer got us a lot of nice features? Coffee & Power is a great idea. It has nothing to do with SL. It does mean a lot of seemingly unemployable talent can make some cash during the hard times and that is always a good thing.

The best way to look at it is outsourcing to anyone anywhere on Earth that wants to do the work and is willing to work for India levels of pay. Sort of like freelancer.com but not yet as corrupt as they have become.

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Bobo Bolero wrote:

The NY TImes reported on November 6 - in an article by Quentin Harvey - that Second Life founder Philip Rosedale has put his efforts and enthusiasm into a work exchange service called "Coffee and Power." Does this new interest signal the demise of Second Life? In the article Rosedale refers to Second Life in the past tense.

The problem with creating an immersive 3-D experience is that it is just too involved, and so it’s hard to get people to engage,” he said. “Smart people in rural areas, the handicapped, people looking for companionship, they love it. But you have to be highly motivated to get on and learn to use it.

it's unclear to me if SL is in his past or if it will soon be in our shared past as well. What do you think? Does Second Life have a future?

Coffee and Power is something completely different from SL and does not compete in any way. The most important thing to note is that Philip's assessment of immersive 3D being "just too involved" is spot on, and is the real limit to growth. This is even more problematic in a world that's going mobile and lightweight, both in technological and human terms.

I think SL has a future, as we're a loyal, if not addicted bunch. But, I think we must be realistic in our expectations.

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i don't think philip is a sit around and linger type of person..i think he likes to start things up let them learn to survive on their own and then go off and start something else up..rinse and repeat..i think he has lots of ideas he wants to see come to light before  things are all said and done..

 i like a lot of his ideas..i look forward to seeing what he decides to bring to life..

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I read that NYT article the other day and my first thought was that they should probably go back to school and learn their tenses :D They say Philip spoke of SL in the past tense but he didn't at all. He spoke in the present tense.

'It is too involved' not 'it was too involved'.

'it's hard to get people to engage' not 'it was hard to get people to engage'

'they love it' not 'they loved it'

'have to be highly motivated' not 'had to be highly motivated'.

I am, of course, beinga bit of a grammar Nazi. It did amuse me slightly how we saw some typical lazy journalism though!

However, while he didn't talk in the past tense grammatically speaking, it is pretty clear from his words that he's moved on from SL and is putting all his energy into Coffee and Power. It doesn't mean the end of SL though. As others have said, it's chalk and cheese (mmmm ... cheese!) Coffee and Power won't replace SL because they are two totally separate businesses. Coffee and Power itself is no threat to SL and, while he does still sit on the board, Philip hasn't really had any involvement in SL for ages now.

I think basically what Philip is acknowledging is that his vision for SL has reached it's peak. Philip was always very visionary and idealistic and saw SL as a huge collabrative tool that he wanted everybody and their dog to use. I think he's realised that's not likely to happen. SL will always have its core of dedicated users. It's possible that Rod's efforts to bring gamers in will add more users. SL will never be a tool to match, say, Facebook that will be used by many millions though (in my opinion anyway).

That doesn't have to be a bad thing though. LL are a profit making company and can remain a profit making company. I just think they have to recognise that SL is never going to be as hugely adopted as they want it to be. Although i'd be more than happy to be proved wrong and for it to become as popular as something like Facebook. Well, i say that but I'd have my worries about massive adoption too  - LL have enough trouble keeping everyone happy as it is with all our varied opinions about how we think SL should work, so goodness knows how they'd cope with even more opinions!

 

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I think some "Big Game Companies" have become worried about SL becoming a game incubator and platform that cuts out the big mafioso game companies. There is suddenly a media assault on SL/LL going on.

 

As they say all exposure is good exposure. Bring it on.

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Since Coffee and Power (which by the way is little more than a foolish endeavor by a bored Millionare) has nothing to do with Second Life as I see the only threat to SL as being SL itself.  I often wonder if the problems that continue to plague SL are in large part from resources they are hiring from the Caffeinated Powerless.

Keep in mind that every other endeavor other than SL has been a failure for Phillip...SL was and will be his only shot at the golden ring.

Perhaps someday it will be replaced with Weed and Welfare. 

Expert is a derivative of Expertise.  C&P is little more than a bunch of unemployeed hackers looking to make a few bucks while not actually having show up to work.

(comments like this are why I will never have an "A" or "C" next to my name.)

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No. 'Coffee and Power' (horrible name, impossible to brand or manipulate) is a resource allocation system for low-level programming tasks. It has nothing to do with Second Life as a virtual world.

Philip has a problem. He is an engineer. He sees the world through the eyes of an engineer. All problems for him are programming problems. He lives and breathes tech infrastructure. This is why he lost control of Second Life in 2007. He didn't understand that SL had evolved beyond the platform into a new political economy. It is why Linden Lab struggles with SL to this day.

A similar paradigm shift occurred when people realized that the cellphone handset was less important than the social systems that ran on it. Going back further in history, television and air-conditioning changed the entire social structure of the human race.

Sigh, as a liberal-arts economic historian, the value of Second Life is blindingly obvious. I just wish I had the money to pry it from the hands of the engineers who can't see the forest for the trees.

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He's hoping to compete with eLance?

I got news for him, eLance already has a field full of competitors.

 

This is like trying to be the next Facebook. There never will be another Facebook.

What there will be, is something new that is original.

 

/tryagain.

 

The sad thing is that SL was unique and original in a sense (granted its just a MUSH with pictures, but then again, facebook is just a dayplanner on the web - you don't have to be 100% original, just original enough)... SL was new and original, and its potential has been squandered by a company and founders that 'see the shiny' but lack the ability to develop it...

 

 

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

...

 

The sad thing is that SL was unique and original in a sense (granted its just a MUSH with pictures, but then again, facebook is just a dayplanner on the web - you don't have to be 100% original, just original enough)... SL was new and original, and its potential has been squandered by a company and founders that 'see the shiny' but lack the ability to develop it...

 

 

Well someone has looked at LL's board composition and what rodvik is doing and they are worried enough to be rather blatantly attempting to poison LL in the media. So whatever rodvik and the LL board is doing it is the right stuff.

 

SL is going to be a game incubator and platform. That has some dinosaur companies quaking in their boots.

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Don't you think you're being a little negative? What if Mark Zuckerberg had said there never will be another Myspace? It's impossible to compete with Myspace, so why bother even trying? What if Sergey Brin had said there is no point in trying to compete with Yahoo search? Yahoo has search locked-up, so why bother trying? What if Steve Jobs had said, there is no point in trying to compete with IBM and DEC, those people have the computer world locked up?

The potential for SL is there, it just needs to be unlocked, like when Steve Jobs came back to Apple after John Sculley tried to market Apple computers like bottles of Pepsi.

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Charolotte Caxton wrote:

The inworld group Coffee and Power has been created to compliment the Real World Coffee and Power.

It is my hope that Second Life does have a future.

There are a lot more of us than just
smart country folk
, disabled, and lonely persons.

It is my belief that those of us who truly love SL will keep it going, or if not, well, you can have my spot on the life boat
:(

 

Smart country folk? I'll show you smart, missy.

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Randall Ahren wrote:

Don't you think you're being a little negative?

No actually I don't think I am.

I think you just missed my point about being original enough. Your examples have troubles matching me on a number of other fronts as well, some of them completely different (I love Mac, but that's not the brand that Apply succeeded on), and some of them because their competitors messed up so severely (Yahoo near abandoned search to try and become a Portal).

And then you tied it to SL, as if I had been saying something about SL there, which I wasn't.

 

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all you have to do get those other pretty colors and letters is answer questions in the answers section.... yes really, that's it.

but I find it funny that you surmise SL as his only shot at success... you don't seem to get the method to his madness... and there is a method.

it's do what he enjoys doing, and let the occasional successes fund all the "failures", which are never really failure to him, but time spent doing what he loves and getting paid for it. each new project adds a new aspect towards better understanding of various problems, and all that education gets carried forward to the next project giving it that much more chance of success... he's not measuring success in merely dollar signs, but rather in his freedom to do as he pleases (which is really all those dollar signs are good for). whether he makes another gold mine or not, he's still beat most people at the game of success on that point alone.

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Deltango Vale wrote:

....Going back further in history, television
and air-conditioning changed the entire social structure of the human race
.

Sigh, as
a liberal-arts economic historian
, the value of Second Life is blindingly obvious. I just wish I had the money to pry it from the hands of the engineers who can't see the forest for the trees.

OK I have to say that my curiosity has definitely been piqued and in the pursuit of my own enlightenment I have to ask.  Can you point me in the direction of an article or articles on how air conditioning has changed the entire social structure of the human race.  I ask because this seems an astonishing claim inasmuch that most of the world neither needs it, has it or can afford it or maybe it's the case you extrapolated a bit far. 

Or, now I think of it, did you mean air conditioning as a catchall for refridgeration and heating? If so then no need for a detailed response, I agree.

It sounds a little like a Steven Levitt musing/proposition, which is why I'm guessing you threw in the liberal-arts economic historian appellation.  Is there an actual degree/course in Liberal Arts Economic History or is it Economic History learned at a Liberal Arts establishment?

I know you to be an intelligent and insightful person Del so I'm not being flippant with your post I'd like to know a little more.

P.S.  I'm only on my first coffee of the morning in case I missed something obvious.

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Technologically, it is almost impossible to decouple air-conditioning from refrigeration, but air-conditioning has had its own dramatic effect on civilization.

In order to spare myself some work tracking down specific articles, let me give a brief overview. Have you ever noticed those big front porches facing the road on old American houses? That's where most social activity happened in the US before air conditioning. Families sat outside on the porch, talking with neighbors or with people walking down the street. The social nexus was the porch/street. It was 'multi-player' and interactive. With the advent of air-conditioning and television, families moved indoors. The street/porch social nexus was destroyed, replaced by the living room, in which family members became the comfortable, passive receivers of unidirectional information from television. (To this day, most living rooms are designed around a centrally placed television. Just try having a conversation during Vapmires R Us or Justin Bieber World Report.) Knock out air-conditioning in July and August and most families would abandon the TV and head to the street.

Air-conditioning also transformed the American south and southwest. Think of Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and Florida. Without the backbone of air-conditioning, they would never have developed the population densities or knowledge economies that have propelled them to the cutting edge of the US economy. Phoenix tops 40 degrees centigrade in the summer. Same goes for Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Malaysia, Vietnam, Dubai, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Israel, the Caribbean, Brazil and many others. None of these countries could have evolved modern economies without air-conditioning.

BTW, I will answer an intriguing question. If you have ever been to Asian countries where they blast the air-conditioning, you no doubt wonder why? I mean, why have the temperature at 15 degrees C in a Hong Kong restaurant? Why not have it a more reasonable 20 C? The answer is that people want the opportunity to wear more clothes! It's a great way to show off a new jacket, to wear stockings with a wool skirt, to layer a sweater over a blouse. Air-conditioning feeds into the whole fashion industry. Style and fashion are not only a huge component of the economy, they are a major social signalling system. Without air-conditioning. Modern, sophisticated Asia would be impossible.

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For some odd reason, you seem to really like to focus on ridiculing me as much as possible here on this board and I am really not sure what I have done to offend you at some point.

However, I have known Philip since he was the CTO at real Networks. I still meet with him at SLCC whenever I attend and yes, I do have some insight to this Voided One.

Since you failed to relate my comments to the original question and chose to just attack me for my comments, perhaps I could reiterate the question that was posed here and perhaps you can connect the two to see the relevance.

The question we "Will C&P replace SL".  I answered with my OPINION and  you come back a response that is as bizarre as you are.  Why not just post your own opinions rather then focus on debating others?

I have reported you and will continue to do so everytime you choose to harass and debate my opinions.

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Deltango Vale wrote:

Technologically, it is almost impossible to decouple air-conditioning from refrigeration, but air-conditioning has had its own dramatic effect on civilization.

In order to spare myself some work tracking down specific articles, let me give a brief overview. Have you ever noticed those big front porches facing the road on old American houses? That's where most social activity happened in the US before air conditioning. Families sat outside on the porch, talking with neighbors or with people walking down the street. The social nexus was the porch/street. It was 'multi-player' and interactive. With the advent of air-conditioning and television, families moved indoors. The street/porch social nexus was destroyed, replaced by the living room, in which family members became the comfortable, passive receivers of unidirectional information from television.

I was immediately reminded of a lyric from a favorite song that has always resonated with me and describes the phenomenon so well. When I googled the lyric one of the first hits was a page that discusses your topic.

"Mama used to roll her hair, back before the central air. We'd sit outside and watch the stars at night. She'd tell me to make a wish, and I'd wish we both could fly. Don't think she's seen the sky, since we got the satelite dish"--James McMurtry, Levelland

I found it here

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