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danicah

Question about 512 and 1024 templates for clothing

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I've been told that it's better to use 512x512 textures for clothes. But i am using 1024x1024 templates in my photoshop.

Now i'm wondering, which is better:

- Create clothes on a 1024x1024 template, shrink it and save as 512x512 png or tga file?

- Or create everything on a 512x512 template and save it like that?

Which would you prefer or recommend?

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In my experience it is always better to create larger and shrink it down to a 512 x 512 TGA format image before bringing the textures into SL.

Watch out for using PNG. It works, but can cause issues sometimes with unintentional 32-bit textures.

My preference, when I designed clothes, was actually to design it at 2048 x 2048, and then shrink that down to 512 x 512. You can scale the templates up to work at larger sizes, since the template itself never becomes part of the finished texture.

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I was also using this workflow, painting on big maps, then scaling them down before upload.

Surprisingly I changed that, now I'm always working directly on the map size that I'll upload. The reason is: on a hi-res map you paint untill all looks nice. But, when scaling the image down, the sampling algorithm determines the end result, not the artst.

This down-sampling Is equivalent to painting directly on the target size, and then running some kind  of blur-filter.

So, for me I decided to use the target resolution from the beginning - this keeps me in control all the time, what I paint is what I get - no downscale-algorithm will blur my work ^^.

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Despite the basic things we might learn here in SL and maintain that, according to my personal experience over years high quality content from a texture point of view is made as follows

Always start a new layer in Photoshop with 2048 x 2048 144 DPI (instead of the standard 72 DPI).

When a design is finished, you change it back to 1024 x 1024 and keep the 144 DPI.

The result is that jaggyness at round edges are smooth after upload and apply it.

512 x 512 144 DPI of course might be more responsible for users of more classic computers, however the highest quality results are at 1024 x 1024 x 144 DPI.

The best performance with mid quality will be at 512 x 512 72 DPI.

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Work at 2048 x 2048 or 1024 x 1024 and save at 512 x 512.  Downsizing always smoothes out any irregularities in lines and gives you a cleaner look.  The only thing to watch out for is that extremely small details (less than 4 pixels wide) will vanish as you downsize, so don't over-detail your work. Disregard any information about DPI.  The only thing that counts is the total number of pixels in your image.  Screens haven't had a standard 72 pixels per inch since the 1990s, and since the image's actual dimensions on screen depend on how much each user zooms in on it anyway, DPI has no meaning at all here. 

As Ceera says, if you use PNG and your image does not contain any transparency, use the Save for Web option in Photoshop to be sure that it saves as a 24-bit file instead of a 32-bit file.  Otherwise, you may have unintended transparency, potential alpha sorting issues, and a files size that's 25% larger than it needs to be.

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Hi Danica, welcome to the forums!

I upscaled Chip Midnight's 1024 x 1024 guides to 2048x2048 and do all my work at that resolution. I then shrink to 1024x1024 and upload that. The SL servers will further shrink to 512x512 during garment/skin creation. If LL someday allows 1024x1024 avatar textures, I'm ready to go, possibly with no effort.

I would not recommend working at 512x512 for two reasons.

1) You cut yourself off from the potential of using higher resolutions if LL provides them in the future

2) Fine adjustments to positions of patterns or edges in the texture require manual anti-aliasing, which is three kabillion times more difficult than scootching things around at high rez and letting the image scaling algorithms do their thing. There may be the odd case where image scaling wrecks a detail but I can't recall that ever being an issue.

ETA: as Rolig warned, you must be cognizant that your final image is 512 x 512, so tiny details in your 2048x2048 original may fade/vanish.

Also, if you don't like the look of your work after upload, you might try shrinking to 512x512 (perhaps changing the scaling algorithm or parameters if you graphics program allows) and/or applying unsharp mask or edge enhancement to the image to sharpen it up. By keeping your original work at higher resolution, you maintain the ability to try these various techniques and stay ready for future improvements to SL itself.

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

Hi Danica, welcome to the forums!

I upscaled Chip Midnight's 1024 x 1024 guides to 2048x2048 and do all my work at that resolution. I then shrink to 1024x1024 and upload that. The SL servers will further shrink to 512x512 during garment/skin creation. If LL someday allows 1024x1024 avatar textures, I'm ready to go, possibly with no effort.

I would not recommend working at 512x512 for two reasons.

1) You cut yourself off from the potential of using higher resolutions if LL provides them in the future

2) Fine adjustments to positions of patterns or edges in the texture require manual anti-aliasing, which is three kabillion times more difficult than scootching things around at high rez and letting the image scaling algorithms do their thing. There may be the odd case where image scaling wrecks a detail but I can't recall that ever being an issue.

ETA: as Rolig warned, you must be cognizant that your final image is 512 x 512, so tiny details in your 2048x2048 original may fade/vanish.

Also, if you don't like the look of your work after upload, you might try shrinking to 512x512 (perhaps changing the scaling algorithm or parameters if you graphics program allows) and/or applying unsharp mask or edge enhancement to the image to sharpen it up. By keeping your original work at higher resolution, you maintain the ability to try these various techniques and stay ready for future improvements to SL itself.

This is quite an old post but it's relevant to a question I had myself. I found some textures I had uploaded a long time ago at 1024. I have, for a long time shrunk clothing textures to 512, so I was wondering if I should find the originals I have and resize them and reupload them. But after reading this, I am thinking I might just let this go. However, I will add this... I saw someone in a gown I made a long time ago in a very crowded club, and I knew that particular texture was 1024, and noted it was not appearing to rez with all the lag. I could see the issue with my gown and assumed it might be the size of that particular texture (1024). I've shied away form larger files for a long, long time, but I never forgot that avatar not rezing. After reading this comment, I might let these go for now, but I'm leery of uploading clothing textures to 1024. It seems to me that many people do not upgrade their systems often and I'd hate my textures to burden their experience. 

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Textures at 1024 x 1024 do rez slowly.  They use 4 times as much memory on your GPU as well.  Everyone who sees the textures in world has had to download them to their own computer, which means that everyone has suffered from the lag.  As a general rule, the only time you should need that much resolution is if you have a texture with an incredible amount of detail (a sign with loads of text maybe) that you expect people to stop and stare at for a long time.  IMO, forcing people to download a huge texture that will be in the background or only seen for a few seconds just isn't a good use of resources, and it's not kind.

 

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Rolig Loon wrote:

Textures at 1024 x 1024
do
rez slowly.  They use 4 times as much memory on your GPU as well.  Everyone who sees the textures in world has had to download them to their own computer, which means that everyone has suffered from the lag.  As a general rule, the only time you should need that much resolution is if you have a texture with an incredible amount of detail (a sign with loads of text maybe) that you expect people to stop and stare at for a long time.  IMO, forcing people to download a huge texture that will be in the background or only seen for a few seconds just isn't a good use of resources, and it's not kind.

 

I agree and this was something I made a few years ago that I saw that women wearing. It was part of that early learning process.

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How do I change a clothing texture from 1024x1024 to 512x512? I use GIMP to make clothing textures, and then upload them.

If textures are downloaded at 512, does it matter if you upload them at 1024?

Mary

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Marybeth Cooperstone wrote:

How do I change a clothing texture from 1024x1024 to 512x512? I use GIMP to make clothing textures, and then upload them.

If textures are downloaded at 512, does it matter if you upload them at 1024?

Mary

It's not clear to me where you are downloading them from, but that doesn't make anydifference. If you download them as 512 x 512 textures and then upload them as 1024 x 1024 textures, then you are inflicting false magnification and poor resolution on everyone who sees them. You have multiplied the number of pixels in the texture by 4, but 3/4 of the pixels in the new texture are just made up.  They are the average of pixels on either side of them.  Never increase the pixel density of a texture before uploading it.

Decreasing from 1024 x 1024 to 512 x 512 is easy.  I don't use GIMP, but I know that there is a button in there that does the same thing as Image >> Image Size in Photoshop or any other graphics program.

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Rolig:

"Not as dumb as I look"  - You don't look dumb!

Thanks for the help with the resolution issue. I found how to change an existing file in GIMP. It is Image/Scale Image...

I started several years ago by downloading .psd files from Robin Wood (http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Technical/SL-Tuts/SLPages/AVUVTemplates.html), apparently 1024x1024. Then I drew textures in GIMP on the templates, so they were 1024 resolution. Each article of clothing I make is in a copy of a previous file, so when I do a cami the bras that I have made are separate layers, to check that the cami covers every thing. Same with jackets, etc. So everything I have made is 1024.

I have just been changing some of my 1024 clothing textures to 512, and found the following:


  • The size on my disk is much smaller, as you said it would be. So I assume this would also reduce the size of the file that is download to my and other people's computer, as you said.
  • For some simple things (e.g. no lace, etc.) there is no apparent loss. The 512 resolution looks as good as the 1024.
  • For one item (panties) that was full of intricate lace there was some apparent loss. The 512 looked blurry compared to the 1024.

I will try converting other items, particularly ones that do not have special fabric or lace, to 512. I will also try drawing some lace in 512x512. I expect that it will look as good as the 1024, unless I need the ability to make more detailed lace or fabric appearance.

Thanks,

Mary

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