Serious Question: Why NO MOD?

[Elric Anatine]

Greetings.  After an absence of about 8 months I have returned to SL.  At the time of my departure, many creators were setting their items to no mod under the guise of copybotting fears (of course, this doesn't prevent copybotting).

Now that I've returned I notice that MOST items (vehicles, weapons, clothes, buildings etc.) are NO MOD.  I won't rehash the "resizing scripts are good enough vs not good enough" argument or the "this is my creation, my vision, like it or don't buy it" stance. I don't wish to spark a debate here.

The point is that when you are trying to create a look (whether with your avatar or on your land), little tweaks to purchased items can make all the difference.  My first few years in SL seemed to provide more mod items, and flexibile creators.  Now, when contacting creators to ask for a mod version (with an explanation why), I am met with "NO".  I would think in our current economic climate that some money would be welcome over NONE.

So in all seriousness, can this trend towards NO MOD be explained to me?  I'd appreciate any and all speculation.  Thank you kindly.

Cheers.

ETA:  This question pertains to FINISHED and FINAL products for sale -- not components used in item creation, and certainly not scripts.

ETAA:  This question also does not pertain to collectibles, hunt items, freebies or similar items.

[Monica Querrien]

With clothing being no mod, if there are no prims in the outfit, I can't imagine why the item would need to be modified.

In terms of furniture, many merchants have said they make their items no mod because the customers start to tinker with the item, break it, and then they get complaints implying that it was somehow their fault that the furniture broke.

I wouldn't buy a building that was not both copy and mod, and in my experience, most buildings have those 2 permissions.

When you contact merchants, what are some of the reasons that you give as to why you would like an item to have mod permissions? Maybe that would help get to bottom of why you have been met with "no" answers.

[Sassy Romano]

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Elric Anatine wrote:

So in all seriousness,

can this trend towards NO MOD be explained to me?

  I'd appreciate any and all speculation.  Thank you kindly.

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Yes, it's used by some creators to reduce their income by forcing customers to beg for a modify version, at which point they can then laugh at the customers, state that it's a stupid request and then ban them from the shop.

That's my experience in one case, as a customer.  I am now an ex-customer so the merchant doesn't have to field such ridiculous requests from me.

[Claireschen Hesten]

i think the reason for no mod is a fear of copybotting and from a fashion point of view i've seen it mentioned before that fashion designers put no mod so the end user can't 'make their creation look bad'. i myself find mod perms desirable particularly with clothes prims everything i make is modify if i make a prim attactment as long as it has 2prims i'll also put a re-sizer in as well ask make it mod

[Sassy Romano]

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Monica Querrien wrote:

With clothing being no mod, if there are no prims in the outfit, I can't imagine why the item would need to be modified.

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no mod Jeans/pants with large flares, try wearing those with boots...

[Sassy Romano]

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Claireschen Hesten wrote:

i've seen it mentioned before that fashion designers put no mod so the end user can't 'make their creation look bad'.

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Yes, a silly notion.  If it doesn't fit me properly because I can't mod it, does it look better?  No, it STILL looks bad, just looks like the creator can't make things that fit. *shrugs*.  I love this debate each time it comes up, let me get my soapbox and popcorn

[Toysoldier Thor]

NO MOD for Builders packs of Sculpt Maps is there to allow the 99% of customers to use 99% of the functionality of a sculpty map without allowing them to take the maps legally (i.e. through standard SL Viewer method) off the grid.  i.e. you cannot export a texture that has no-mod.  My most recent master builder sculpty map packs offer COPY TRANS and NO-MOD on the actual sculpty map textures and then full perms on shadow maps of each sculpty map for my building customers that want to develop custom textures on my sculpty shapes in PS or external graphic programs.

As such, my NO-MOD maps now only limit an extremely small number of my customers that want to either use my map's UUID for a script (which I generally prefer they do not do anyway because of the potential risks of my maps getting out if programmed improperly or the script not made no-mod), or because they want to customize my sculpty shape (which I also do not allow my customers to customize any of my sculpty shapes).

To potentially accomodate those rare customers that NEED no-mod (i.e. full perm) maps, I ask them to contact me and for an additional fee if I agree with the reason for their need for full perm - I sell them a special version of the pack.

AND... contrary to Sassy's slam against merchants that do not offer full perm... In the 1+ year that I have offered NO-MOD sculpty map packs with the option to buy the value-add full perm map packs (for only 100L more), I have only had 2 customers of hundreds that have requested more than a NO-MOD pack.

So, some people on this forum can slam the selling of no-mod but I have over a year of experience for my sculpty map business that it has not been an issue at all for me and my business.

 

[Elric Anatine]

As a consumer, I need mod clothing as I spend much of my time in my fox avatar with digi legs -- no mod trousers are an issue.  Azriel Demain of Falln kindly gifted me with an invisi prim to deal with this issue, however, it is not always suitable.  As mentioned here already, there are many reasons why trouser or shirt lengths need adjusting to suit various avatars.

As a creator of furniture, yes, I've had the odd customer "break" a furnishing but then I flip them a replacement and we have a laugh over this.  There is a concept in business that states "make it as easy as possible for customers to do business with you".  I'd sooner exert a little more energy to keep a customer happy than blow off potential customers.

As for why vehicles or weapons etc. might need to be mod?  A little colour tint here, or a slight texture swap there... all to work better with the environment or ensemble.  As said in this thread already, isn't a creation more attractive if it actually really looks good?

I digress... the last thing I really want to do is debate overmuch, but I truly appreciate the opportunity to understand this trend that I cannot wrap my brain around.

Thank you for your responses, truly! 

[Sassy Romano]

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Toysoldier Thor wrote:

NO MOD for Builders packs of Sculpt Maps is there to allow the 99% of customers to use 99% of the functionality of a sculpty map without allowing them to take the maps legally (i.e. through standard SL Viewer method) off the grid.  i.e. you cannot export a texture that has no-mod. 

AND... contrary to Sassy's slam against merchants that do not offer full perm... In the 1+ year that I have offered NO-MOD sculpty map packs with the option to buy the value-add full perm map packs (for only 100L more), I have only had 2 customers of hundreds that have requested more than a NO-MOD pack.

So, some people on this forum can slam the selling of no-mod but I have over a year of experience for my sculpty map business that it has not been an issue at all for me and my business.

 

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Question:  Why make a texture no mod when that texture is already in your viewer cache and thus has been downloaded using a "normal" SL viewer?

Further, where did I mention full perm?  I did not.

[Elric Anatine]

No mod sculpt maps are definitely not questioned by myself.  I purchase numerous sculpt maps and don't care one whit whether they are mod or no.

My question, and I apologize, pertains to FINISHED PRODUCTS (i.e. vehicles, weapons, items, clothing, accessories etc.).

Items used for building/creating are NOT in question here.  THIS, as a creator who relies on amazing component creators such as yourself, I understand why no mod.

Cheers.

[Sassy Romano]

One reason I can think of is where resetting a script would change the behaviour of the item concerned though there are usually other ways to deal with that situation.  No mod, can't reset scripts.

Oh and rigged mesh but that's a different topic altogether.  It can be sold mod, just can't be made to fit.

[Toysoldier Thor]

You poo poo'ed on any merchants that sold NO MOD without clarifying your criticism.  my master builders packs of sculpty maps are NO MOD so as such you were slamming merchants like me.

As for your question... My sculpty maps are no-mod and have an alpha layer on it.  The only LEGIT way to export my sculpty map texture would be to use the Viewer's Save Texture As feature under the File menu option.

If you are attempting to use any other means to remove my texture off the SL grid (and violate my Licence agreement that explicitly does not permit my customers to remove my sculpty maps from the SL grid) then you are taking extrodinary illegal actions to violate my agreement on terms of use.

I didnt say that if you were technically smart enough you could leverage the weakness of the viewer to STEAL my content.  Nothing is perfect regarding protecting IP in SL, but by place an Alpha layer on my map textures and making them No-Mod, I have made it difficult enough for the vast majority of SL residents who might intend to violate the agreement that they simply wont.  For those resident that both do not have the morals and do have the smarts to steel my content, there is nothing more i can do except to DCMA them if I ever catch them.

Lucky for me,  in my 2+ years of selling my full perm and no-mod packs of my landscape sculpties, I have had extremely honest and highly respectful customers that honor and value my creativity and work.  So my protection is only for very very small percent of SL residents whom may not be as respectful.

[Toysoldier Thor]

OK thanks... because I agree that input porducts like sculpty maps have clear reasons for being no mod.

 

Thanks for clarifying.   /ME backs out of the thread conversation..... goes back to eating popcorn.

[Ciaran Laval]

This really depends upon what the item is, I make all my scripts no mod, in a finished item, the item will appear to be no mod because of the script, yet you'd be able to resize and texture it any way you wanted.

[Sassy Romano]

Ok, like the OP, I read it as "finished products" not components so if someone wants to feel slammed so be it, playing a victim is always an option.  (Visit my store, I have products for you)

As for stealing content, it's an interesting question, using a UUID within SL references an asset already in SL, nothing has been moved out of SL (You're making assumptions here )  What does the licence refer to?  The sculpt map itself of use of the UUID, if it doesn't explicitly cover use of the UUID in any associated way whatever whatever, you might want to rethink your terms.

Anyway, don't make it personal Toy, it's not necessary in order to make a point.  There are few reasons for no mod, there are *some* valid reasons and the discussion is aligned to finished products.

[Sassy Romano]

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Toysoldier Thor wrote:

Thanks for clarifying.   /ME backs out of the thread conversation..... goes back to eating popcorn.

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/me steals your UUID's and now your popcorn   *munchies*

[Elric Anatine]

Yes, I do feel bad for causing confusion. 

Given my physical disabilities, yet a desire to tinker and build, I NEED component creators and have always respected the logical permissions set by component creators.

/me offers up some delectable popcorn seasoning.

[Elric Anatine]

I really should have been more clear.  Apologies.

I never expect scripts in an item to be mod.

However, if I wish to retint or retexture an aspect of a creation, I'd like to be able to, so that it "looks" better with the overall image attempting to be projected.

I've been in SL since early 2007 and it seemed to me back then most items were mod to permit such modification.  Now, it appears that it's near impossible to find mod items or requests for mod items to be taken at face value (i.e. no malicious intent).

Thusly, I'm wondering if there is some curious trend or incident I missed in my absence.

PS:  *facepalms at lack of spell check with subject heading and dies of embarassment*

[Toysoldier Thor]

my licence agreement covers the use of UUID usage in scripts and such usage of my map's UUID is generally not allowed except under special conditions and permissions by me to that requesting customer.  No-Mod hides the UUID - and that is the rare reason why I have got a customer requesting for a full perm access to my pack so they could use it for a script that needed my map's UUID.

Anyway.. this is off topic.

I am backing out of this thread.

[Jesica Dragovar]

I have a shop that sells a goofy little replication of pogs that were the huge rage in the 90s

I make them no copy no mod only to add in the "collect 'em and trade 'em" aspect, nothing more nothing less

 

but that's just me

[Chelsea Malibu]

I have always been an advocate of selling modifiable goods as are many others here.  If someone owns it they should be able to mod it.

And then the copybook topic comes up.  The truth is that if everyone really looked at content piracy closely they would see some interesting dynamics.  I say this because this is what I do in RL and have for many years working with content owners to protect their assets.

Piracy will happen and often the cost of protecting yourself from it, far outweighs any loss by not having it.  It's the primary reason Harry Potter movies have no DRM.  Peer to Peer systems showed us there is a high likelihood that someone who receives a copied digital asset, they have a very high likelihood of buying this product later.

However, copybotting is rare and you will more than likely loose more customers for no mod than you will loose money from copybotted items especially with lower cost items such as clothing.

[TatianaDokuchic Varriale]

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Monica Querrien wrote:

In terms of furniture, many merchants have said they make their items no mod because the customers start to tinker with the item, break it, and then they get complaints implying that it was somehow their fault that the furniture broke.

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The majority of my furniture is no copy, mod, trans.  If the customer breaks it they just have to return the remaining wreck to me and I will gladly replace it with a brand new one   So far I haven't had anyone complaining that it was my fault that it broke.

 

[Elric Anatine]

Oh well, collectibles, agreed, should be no mod. 

Again, that's not the issue and I will go back and re-edit my original post again.  LOL

[Avalon Vesperia]

I own a store and create furniture and other tidbits. All of my products are modable, but it didn't use to be that way and I will tell you why. I was uninformed/misinformed. When I began creating 5 years ago I had no idea modable was a good thing. I saw tends come and go, both big copybot scares ect, prim resizers ( *lowers head* which I did try) and more. It wasn't until I started doing research and paying great attention and buying things that I wanted to make changes on myself that I "GOT" it. People usually believe the first dribble that comes down the pike. So they believe that resizers, nomod/nocopy all that stuff will protect thier work and that by making something no mod they are "saving" their vision of what it should look like perhaps.

I personally am happy when people show me what they did with my work, their creativity and their vision and explain to me why they changed it.. so that I can better learn how to make my customers happy, keep up on trends, and in general get repeat business.

As to others who maintain no mod is best, you are likely to get a landfill of differant answers and that is what is right for them.

In a world created by it's users, answers to these questions are as varied as the stars

[Elric Anatine]

I think perhaps you hit on the main reason for the trend, Miss Avalon... as time has marched on, there have been more and more reasons for creators to "believe" they need to produce items no mod.  In the old Wild West days it was more about "buy and play".  Over time business became more serious but also quite misunderstood as to what customers wanted.

As an aside, I feel creators should spend some time as consumers before selling their wares.

Thank you for your insights.