Low FPS on good system, tried everything.

[AstralBody]

Hello, I am stumped on why my fps struggles in high populated areas. I will avg around 15-30 in empty spaces, and around 5-10 fps in high traffic areas. I am lagging so bad that ive been crashing, getting a script run error(only recently, due to new update?)I have tried atleast 10 troubleshooting guides on increasing fps with no luck. My system plays new games no problem. Have tried tweeking the hidden features, like multiple cores, and disabling other hidden menu options like directed. No background apps running, I might pull up a text website to check something every now and then though.

 

OS: Vista 64

Viewer:V2 (I have tried Phoenix & firestorm with no improvement)

ISP: Road Runner cable. Speed test currently: DL 9.91Mbps UL 0.98 Mbps  Wired modem, through router(TP-Link).

System Model:MS-7612

BIOS: Default System BIOS

Processor: AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 965 Processor (4 CPUs), 3.4GHz

Memory:3966MB RAM

Page File:1562MB used, 6552MB available

DirectX Version: DirectX 11

Graphics Card: NVIDIA Geforce GTX 465 (latest official driver installed)

Approx. Total Memory:2721 MB

Current Display Mode:1920x1080 (32 bit) (60Hz)

I tried changing everything to low settings, and I get awhole 3-4 fps gain, so thats not even worth it. I tried using phoenix, and firestorm, without any noticable performance increase. What am I missing, is there some type of hidden feature thats causing me to lag this badly? I know something is wrong, because people with lower end systems, are running SL alot smoother than I.  Any info would be much appreciated:matte-motes-grin:.

 *updated with preference settings*

Like mentioned, I reduced the quality and speed to the lowest, and only noticed a slight 3-4 fps gain.

[Chelsea Malibu]

Everyone lags in high density areas.  It's the number one issue with SL and has been since day 1.  Server resources are very limited and these are not the best servers out there by far.

One thing that does help when all else has been tried is to reset your modem and router which will usually create a new route.  Another is the background apps you have running.  You may want to check that to make you don't have a lot going on in the background or you can set up an additional user account in Microsoft and use it only for SL.

[Deej Kasshiki]

What's your network setup? Wireless or wired ethernet?

I have pretty much the same system as yours (overclocked everything, more RAM, GTX 460) and I don't have these issues. I'm using Cool VL viewer right now and I'm hardwired to my router.

If you're running wireless you'll find that you get MUCH better perfromance if you can connect via a wire. The fact that you see the same issues on multiple clients would tend to point to a hardware issue, like your network/internet connection. Also have you tried resetting your network devices? It could be a problem involving your modem or router as well.

[Venus Petrov]

Try some of these suggestions:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Reducing_lag

[AstralBody]

Updated ISP info & router. I will try to reset my router/modem prior to loggin into second life, and see if that works. Yes, I am viewing the stats through the cntrl+shift+1 hotkey.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Highly populated sims and areas will always lag your system more than a lightly populated sim or area.  It just takes more for you computer/graphics card to deal with which slows things down.  You're system is more than up to the task but even an extreme high end gaming rig on the fastest connection available will lag if there is a lot of information (graphics specifically) to handle.  Everything within your set draw distance has to be dealt with even if you are actually "viewing" it.  That means every texture, object and script within your draw distance is recieved by your viewer and either cached or rendered.  It overwhelms many of the lesser spec'd machines (even high end if the settings in preference are set to ultra).......some systems will crash, some will slow to a crawl.  Lower your draw distance helps a bunch.

 

Play with the bandwidth settings a little to find a good setting for your system.  Setting the bandwidth higher than what your system can handle will cause as many problems with FPS as setting it too low.  LL has an upper limit on how much data will be sent and exceeding that in your settings won't do a bit of good since the servers will never send more than that upper limit......I'm pretty sure that upper limit is 1500 kbps.  Assuming your connection is clean and your pings are reasonable (less than about 300) your system should have no problem with a 1500 kbps settings..........but by clean I'm not taking about sheer speed (ping, and packet loss are actually more important than speed for good performance in SL). 

 

One other question for you.  You are connected through a router (I think).  Other people on your network will effect your connection speed (they don't have to be doing anything real bandwidth intensive, just simple Internet browsing will slow each connection down some amount).  And there's the possibility that you have a neighbor "piggybacking" on your connection if you don't have your router locked down.  You're manual for your router will have the instructions on how to do that.......it's also a pretty important step to take for Internet security (I'd recommend locking it down even if there is no one using your router for Internet access.........things can change in a minute.  Some trying to find an address, parked on the street and using Google maps on their iPhone or Blackberry can be interfering with your connection if they connect to your network through your wireless router.

[Ceera Murakami]

Also check your hardware anti-alisaing setting. V2 and V3 default to a rather insanely high 8x anti-aliasing factor, when 2x is more than adequate for most uses. A lower anti-aliasing setting, even with everything else cranked to the max, will do wonders for improving your frame rates.

[AstralBody]

Thanks for the replies everyone, but still looking for a solution. I know heavy traffic areas will cause your pc to run slower, but when I ask the people around me what fps they're getting, its always way higher than mine, and I have a better PC than them. Most of the people I compare fps with, don't know how to check fps, are running on 10 year old rigs, and have a framerate of about 10-15 higher than I :matte-motes-mad:.

I tried resetting my router & modem, maybe I will try a direct connect to the modem next. Even though I am using a wired connection, my router does support wifi, which doesnt have a password set on it. That could be a reason, I doubt it though, it's consistantly low frames, weither its in the morning, mid day or very late at night. I also live in a nice neighborhood, and don't ever see anyone camping outside my house . It's worth a shot though.

Anti aliasing is the first thing I turned off, although oddly enough, even after restarting, I don't notice any fps gain(kept it off anyway). My bandwith is set to 1500. I will post all my preference settings, just incase anyone sees anything out of place.  

[AstralBody]

Ok, I did a direct connect to my modem, bypassing the router altogether. Did a reset of the modem, and still no performance increase. Any other solutions?

[Paul Hexem]

Try some different viewers. Not all viewers are coded equally.

[Vladi Hazelnut]

You have a problem for sure, you should see much higher frame rates than that with that system. And turning it to low graphics they should really jump up, not stay the same. One thing that will help your frame rates is switching to windows 7 though. I was really hoping when I read your specs you would have an ATI card, those are notorious for not working well with SL since many of them have problems with open GL. But the card you have is way more than you need for sl. Kind of hard to trouble shoot from a forum though. Maybe I can get with you inwolrd and we can try some tests.

First thing I would do is to check your bandwidth and ping to a server in the area sl uses, like sanfransisco or Dallas. You don't always get the same download speeds as you would from your local server. Especially if you are really far away, like the UK or Australia. Then I would check your ping and packet loss. If you have a high ping or packet loss things won't run well either.

Then I would do some benchmarks and tests on your desktop to make sure your system is running as well as it should. It is possible a driver role back might help your issues, but that card should great on the latest drivers.

To do some of this though it is going to require you downloading some programs and run them on your system though. And from what I have seen the standard SL viewer actually gives the best frame rates so I doubt switching to a third party viewer is going to instantly cure your problems.

There has to be something going on that is limiting your frame rates.

[Alazarin Mondrian]

Does your ISP throttle your connection if you have too much traffic and/or exceed a monthly bandwidth limit?

[Rolig Loon]

---

Alazarin Mondrian wrote:

Does your ISP throttle your connection if you have too much traffic and/or exceed a monthly bandwidth limit?

---

That's a very good possibility.  I am told that ISPs in the UK, for example, often ration bandwidth at peak usage times.  If you are entering the Internet from a corporate site, your company's IT managers may also restrict heavy bandwidth use during office hours.  In the U.S., many college campuses do that in residence halls as well.

[AstralBody]

I don't believe I have a bandwith limit. I am from the US, not on a campus, nor a work computer ect. My frames are consistantly low in high traffic areas, whether it be at 8pm or 4am in the morning.

So far, ran a bunch of network tests ping/packet loss ect. Did some system tests to see system specs. Something is wrong, but we just can't pinpoint it atm.

Vladi Hazelnut, is an amazingly nice person. To spend hours of his time, with a total stranger in world, trying to help them improve their second life experience. We didn't resolve the issue, Hazelnut said he will continue to look for solutions, checking my bio's settings ect. If only everyone in second life, had the passion for helping others like yourself, my hat goes off to you sir, and everyone else that took the time to type replies :matte-motes-grin:.

[Vladi Hazelnut]

After spending some time with Astral in world and running some tests I don't believe its a bandwidth problem. I think it might possibly be a hardware problem. For one his computer is having problems seeing his GTX 465 as the main card and kind of switches back and forth. I had him run a furmark benchmark test and used his on board graphics to run the test. So not sure what sl is using. He disabled his onboard graphics and his performance went up a bit, but not as much as I think it should have.

He is running with mid graphics with a draw distance of 96 meters. I run a GTS 250 and was getting higher frame rates than he was and I was in ultra with a 1024 draw distance. If I put mine in mid with that draw distance I would see close to 100 fps where we were standing.

I am also perplexed that his system is seeing just under 4 gigs of ram when he is running a 64 bit OS. It should be showing 4096.

He also mentioned he gets the blue screen sometimes when he starts his computer and  it re boots. This smacks of a hardware issue to me. It might also be that he doesn't have a big enough power supply to run his system. He couldn't find anything on it that said what the outputt was.

It kills me that I can't get my hands on it to look inside and poke around the bios lol.

I really couldn't find crap as far as the layout for you bios in order to walk you through it. I am more familiar with the phoenix bios set ups myself. Maybe someone here has a MSI board with the AMI bios and can tell you what you need to look for. Another option would to be actually join a forum for computers and tell them what your problems are. Tom's Hardware has a very good forum.

My advice, like I told you in world would be to first test your memory to rule that out. You can either run a long test on it. Or just pull a stick and boot back up and play around. Then shut the computer off and swap sticks and play around and see if the blue screen replicates with one of the sticks. If that is the case you have a bad stick of memory.

its also possible since you said your dad was in there poking around he may have messed with your ram timings and they are not right. Overclocking ram is a science in my opinion lol. Most can figure out how to OC a video card or cpu, but messing with ram is a bit more advanced in my opinion.

So my second piece of advice would be to re set your bios and see what happens. But if you do this, depending on your board you may have to go into the bios and disable the floppy drive options. If it tries to find a floppy drive and you don't have one it won't boot. And I guess it is possible that you have to tell your bios to disable the on board graphics. However most boards I have seen look for the PCIE slot first and will automatically disable the onboard graphics if it finds a dedicated video card. Then again, I have never owned an MSI board so I can't say 100 percent for sure.

And you can always step back and punt, and reset your bios and re install windows. It should find the card and install it, which is what should have happened in the first place.

He is also running his computer on a HD tv via a HDMI cable, which I have never messed with so I don't know if that is causing him issues either.

I will note like the others have said though, regardless of how great your computer, cpu and mother board, some areas in sl just suck. High traffic, high lag areas will just be bad. If I go up in the air on a good sim I can pull 200 fps. I have been to some places where I am lucky to get 10 fps. But on our sim with your specs you should have been seeing more fps.

Two things we really need to do is figure out how big your power supply is and either find some pictures of your bios options or someone that knows it well enough to explain what to look for.

[Vladi Hazelnut]

Ok Astral, I found some more info on your computer and I think I know some of what may be wrong with it. You will need to get with me so we can discuss it and I can try to explain how to fix it. For starters you have older version of the bios and it may not even support that video card. Two you installed the same brand of video card that is on the mother board, so you need to disable the onboard graphics before you can install the new one. I would say that was issue with it conflicting.

What this is going to require is you uninstalling your current video card, enable your onboard graphics and hook your monitor up to that port. Then disable the on board graphics and swap them again. But before you do this you will need to flash your bios with a newer version and set the bios up again. But I found plenty of info on it so it should be too bad. I can walk you through it and you can take notes on what to change to get it up and running again and we can go from there.

I will try to get with you inworld to go over all of it. Hopefully this should solve your issues. At the very least you will have the latest bios for your motherboard and the video card will be installed correctly.

[Venus Petrov]

---

AstralBody wrote:

I don't believe I have a bandwith limit. I am from the US, not on a campus, nor a work computer ect. My frames are consistantly low in high traffic areas, whether it be at 8pm or 4am in the morning.

So far, ran a bunch of network tests ping/packet loss ect. Did some system tests to see system specs. Something is wrong, but we just can't pinpoint it atm.

Vladi Hazelnut, is an amazingly nice person. To spend hours of his time, with a total stranger in world, trying to help them improve their second life experience.

We didn't resolve the issue, Hazelnut said he will continue to look for solutions, checking my bio's settings ect. If only everyone in second life, had the passion for helping others like yourself, my hat goes off to you sir, and everyone else that took the time to type replies :matte-motes-grin:.

---

Pay it forward.

[AstralBody]

*Update*

I noticed a decline in fps in the last day or so(5-15fps avg), I don't know if it was caused by a bio's flash, mb driver update, or the new v2 update. I tried phoenix viewer again, and it was better than normal(20-25 fps). I looked at some settings, and saw vbo was off, which is always on in my v2 settings, turned it on and it doubled my fps to 40 avg. I tried firestorm, since phoenix isnt compatible with my 3000L TV, and that was avg around 30 fps.

I came across dolphin 2, and it has the same performance of phoenix, supports my TV, and has basicly the same layout of v2(so I know where everything is at). Hopefully this will help someone else .

[Robert69 Little]

I haven't a clue which server I'm connecting to when I log into second life...but if I'm (St. Louis, Mo.) connecting to a server in SF California...the best computer/high speed connection will not improve my FPS (Frames per second):

I think Linden Lab is trying to use stone age servers...it's time to get off their asses and invest into some top quality servers.. people are leaving SL/venues are closing their doors and major events are coming to a screaching halt....they need to get on the ball before it's to late.

[Rolig Loon]

You can always tell which server you are connected to at any given time by opening your Help >About ..  menu.  That display will identify the server for the sim you are in at the moment. 

You should normally expect FPS to be at least 15-20.  My own is usually in the range between 50 and 75, but it really depends on how busy the sim I am in happens to be, and how much care its developers have taken to minimize the use of large textures and physical objects.  Unlike games you may be used to on line, SL's content is almost entirely created by amateurs, so is not optimized for loading speed.  Also unlike most games, much of SL's content is stored in its servers and downloaded on demand to clients.  There's continuous data exchange between clients and servers. That yields a highly flexible user-designed environment at the cost of speed.  It's what you bargain for when you join SL.

When FPS is below its normal range, it'susually due to something on your own end.  It's either due to hardware that is inadequate for SL (the main culprits are routers and graphics cards), inappropriate user Preference settings, or connection issues (wireless, funky IPS ...).  SL's servers certainly do have issues, especially after software upgrades.  Those generally affect people all across the grid at once, however. 

[digimbyte]

I came across this thread looking to help a friend and I have to say im disgusted with the level of help in this discussion, that I must warn anyone who comes across this thread.

First, FPS is not handled by server, or ISP, or bandwidth issues. they send data, data is not rendered, and will not affect Frames Per Second.

(like seriously, the fact you thought of that shows how little you know about computers and FPS)

The only time that will impact FPS is indirectly when you load multiple objects fast, like sim crossing/flying

and is SL, the only program you have issues with? its probably because most SL viewers use OpenGL for rending, \which is primarily software based rendering and isn't controlled by your GPU, but your CPU.

as for a fix, there could be several factors, one, the location you are in simply has to much lighting effects going on that its breaking your FPS.

another option is your CPU is overheating, download some software to monitor that, and make sure it doesn't go above 60c

beyond that, make sure the application has 'high priority' in task manager.

and if nothing else fixes it, we can just blame the viewer for being poorly coded/optimized for your system.

[Perrie Juran]