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Chronometria

Subs are social but doms are detached?

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In short, why is it that dominant folks are so hard to meet and befriend?

 

Since getting together with my submissive partner and taking on the dominant role as her companion, I`ve been keen to meet up with other folks of like mind (ie dominant folks) to just hang with, chat with and to thus discuss the lifestyle and their take on it as peers. This, it seems, is harder than it should be.

In my experience, subs hang around together and are social, supportive folks who, by their nature, want to please others and who like to chat about their situation with their equals. If anything this situation gives them a very common identity and when attending BDSM classes on freedom continent, they are vocal and, ironically, are quite assertive in what they want and what they feel.

Doms, however, don't seem to want to talk to anyone. They are already rarer (one of them for every ten subs i hear) and adding this antisocial nature make finding an outgoing, chatty one like finding a four leafed clover. The one "dom's social club" group i found in search had, according to it's creator, fallen quiet and unused.

 

Can anyone explain why this is? Also, if anyone is dominant and wants to put themselves forward as a friend, then let me know and i`d love to meet up. Why is it that subs have what is almost a nation and we are all nations to ourselves?

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I've been on both ends of the leash.  Basically, long story short, there are far far far more subs than dom(me)s.  I can think of 101 ways to explain why but each reasoning has just as many flaws as merits.  (>_<)

 

 

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The rarity of dom/mes, particularly good ones, leads them to be constantly pestered by unattached subs. I suspect even the most social of them retreat into their shells a little under this kind of pressure. Giving a friendly response to a questing sub could easily lead to more questions, interraction and pushing to be accepted. Acting a little cool would discourage them without pushing them away. Also, soft boundaries are sometimes seen as a submissive trait, so perhaps there's a little bit of playing to the tough, detached, dominant image (in public at least).

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The Dominants that I have known and associated with in SL tend to have more unattached submissives seeking to attach to them than they know what to do with. I know I certainly had to turn down quite a few subbies, when Ceera was more openly social in a Dominant role. In general I found more social acceptance from other Dominant types when they had a chance to see how I treated my own submissives. There's a very wide range of 'acceptable' behaviors that are involved in BDSM and in D/s play, and what works for one Dominant and their Subs may not work at all for others. An opportunity for one Dominant to see how another Dominant interacts with their charges can give a great deal of insight as to the compatibility of the two Dominant's philosophies and practices.

It would seem to me that the best place to make initial contacts with Dominants as peers would be at venues where Dominants bring their submissives for semi-public play. But by its nature those places tend to be selective about who they admit, only attract certain subsets within the lifestyle, and many who are into that lifestyle would never be found in such places, as they do it only in private, with trusted friends.

I think submissives do tend to be more gregarious and social, largely because it is part of their accepted role to want to please others. Dominants tend to be more selective in who they associate with, to limit any closer associations to those who practice similar activities and who share similar views. A Dominant who tries to be open to lots of people will usually find a lot of very incompatible people trying to associate with them.

Also, it takes a lot of personal and emotional/creative resources to be the Dominant in a relationship, and if a Dominant accepts the handle of too many leashes, they fail to properly fulfill their commitment to their charges, because they just don't have the time and resources to see to all their needs. A submissive on the other hand usually only serves one Master/Mistress, or a very limited group of them, and so by the nature of the relationship can't readily overextend their resources.

 

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Chronometria wrote:

In short, why is it that dominant folks are so hard to meet and befriend?

Chronometria, I don't think anyone would call me antisocial, but my socializing is not in places were the discussions that would interest you are likely to take place. I once attended a social club like you mentioned and found that I had little patience for the posturing I saw. You don't seem to be detached. I don't think I'm detached. So, are we antisocial or simply more circumspect about that aspect of our character, saving our discussions for the peer that matters most?

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I have my own ideas as to why dominants tend to behave the way you describe.  I've made the same observations myself from the submissive's perspective.  Fortunately, there are places where you are more likely to meet other dominants in SL.

Check out the group called ACES (Adult Community Education Society).  They serve to inform members of discussions and meetings about various topics.  Some of the discussions are for dominants only.  I'll try to pop into SL some time today and make sure I have it showing in my groups. 

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Ceera Murakami wrote:

I think submissives do tend to be more gregarious and social, largely because it is part of their accepted role to want to please others. 

Ceera, I don't see wanting to please others as being a singularly submissive trait. What's different is how the pleasing is done.

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Imnotgoing Sideways wrote:

I've been on both ends of the leash.  Basically, long story short, there are far far far more subs than dom(me)s.  I can think of 101 ways to explain why but each reasoning has just as many flaws as merits.  (>_<)

  

101? You missed a few!

I'd compare notes with you, but they're a mess, prolly just like yours ;-)

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Well, I'm a Domme and yes, I am very distant to most within the D/s community unless it's with my subbies.  I have not been on as much as I used to and only have one Subbie now that I don't spend much time with in world.

Being a Domme comes with it a constant flow of request from people looking for a good Domme.  I am rather protective of my life and my subs though not possessive.  The time and energy it takes to be a good Domme is over taxing at times which is in large part, why I don't spend as much time in that lifestyle now.  My sub also now lives with me in RL.

Overall, I agree with you and for good reason.  As a Domme one must be rather unemotional and unattached to be effective or to maintain consistency.  It's what defines a domme from a sub.  Emotions come into play and if you attempt to get into any form of true affection, it pretty much changes the dynamics of the relationship.  This is the reason most don't seem close or personal though we are very close among ourselves and our subs.  Yes, being distant makes you what you are and in my case, a Domme who limits her SL life to close friends and my subs.

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ACES sounds interesting Sammantha. I`ve found forceme silverspar's classes to be a godsend and any other education and discussion of the lifestyle is a real help as well as an interest. So i shall definitely look into that, thankyou for the tip.

 

Thankyou for all the replies. It's an interesting topic and i see some have encountered a similar phenomena. One of the problems i found of going to "places doms hang out with their subs" is that often they are working environments where a certain image is expected and where, if you don't have a sub with you, you are almost one of the staff, expected to entertain those there present.

I quite like bondage ranch in freedom continent as a sim to hang out in, but its often so packed that you cant even enter the sim. I`m hopeful that the center sim of the new adult portal will become a similarly successful meet up spot.

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I'm a Domme of many many years experience.

By nature i'm friendly, helpful and outgoing with people in general. I am definately a social animal. i DO tend to be reserved with other Dom/mes, But that is the nature of our kind, Like poker, it's best not to show ones full hand. With subs and slaves who are the property of another, I am polite, cordial, but again, somewhat reserved. I must always remember that i am dealing with the "Extension" of another Dominant, and one always has ones reputation to consider, and gaining a reputation as a "Poacher" is definately NOT desirable. With Unattatched subs, and slaves I am concerned, helpful, and at times rather protective. I guide, and advise, But i am careful to not give the impression that i am "Scouting" them for my own household, because i am not currently seeking additional service. I know the number of people out there calling themselves "Master' or "Mistress' who are completely unworthy of the title so i Know how hard it is for subs or slaves to find thier way safely, and as a Mistress i DO have to occasionally discourage subs or slaves who are not fully aware that it is We, the Dominants who do the choosing, It is the place of the sub, or slave to make themselves desirable, and wait to be chosen.

When interacting with people outside the lifestyle, it's been my experience that it is They, who are reserved around ME. I believe many have had experience with loud, aggressive or arrogant Dominants who lack in any of the social graces, and are, when they realize what I am, somewhat intimidated, Expecting me to attempt perhaps adding them to my "Stable"

Interpersonal relationships for the Dominant OR the submissive can be very complex. I try where ever possible to put people at thier ease around me.

Angel

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Angelique LaFollette wrote:

i Know how hard it is for subs or slaves to find thier way safely, and as a Mistress i DO have to occasionally discourage subs or slaves who are not fully aware that it is We, the Dominants who do the choosing, It is the place of the sub, or slave to make themselves desirable, and wait to be chosen.

 


It really isn't so hard for most submissives to find our way safely.  Most of us have working brains.  We know what (if anything) we are looking for just as dominants know what they are looking for.

A submissive absolutely decides to whom they will submit.  A dominant can't just choose who will submit to them!  People choose each other.  It doesn't matter if it's a D/s relationship or not. 

 

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Sammantha Koppel wrote:


Angelique LaFollette wrote:

i Know how hard it is for subs or slaves to find thier way safely, and as a Mistress i DO have to occasionally discourage subs or slaves who are not fully aware that it is We, the Dominants who do the choosing, It is the place of the sub, or slave to make themselves desirable, and wait to be chosen.


It really isn't so hard for most submissives to find our way safely.  Most of us have working brains.  We know what (if anything) we are looking for just as dominants know what they are looking for.

A submissive absolutely decides to whom they will submit.  A dominant can't just choose who will submit to them!  People choose each other.  It doesn't matter if it's a D/s relationship or not. 

I agree Sammantha. I don't think I'd be much attracted to someone who couldn't find her way safely, and there's nothing so lovely as a working brain (and I do mean working!). The idea that it's only me choosing makes no sense. I hardly think I'm universally attractive, nor able to please everybody I meet. It seems only proper that I should be as worthy of investment as anyone I invest in, and that they, not I, make that determination.

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

Chronometria, I don't think anyone would call me antisocial, but my socializing is not in places were the discussions that would interest you are likely to take place. I once attended a social club like you mentioned and found that I had little patience for the posturing I saw. You don't seem to be detached. I don't think I'm detached. So, are we antisocial or simply more circumspect about that aspect of our character, saving our discussions for the peer that matters most?


This I think is about as clear an answer as you'll get. Doms into RP hang out at RP places and as such posturing is all 'part of the game' and this can include a very aloof approach. And of course they do get pestered (by subs and others) but I presume they mustn't mind that too much because otherwise they wouldn't hang out at such places (IMO of course).

Doms who can't be bothered  with the public posturing part of SL are harder to identify, many of them are quite happy to look and act just like anyone else - until of course they are rping with a sub (usually in private).

All of the above (apart from Maddy's quote) are of course my own personal opinion based on my experience in SL.

Good luck :smileywink:

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Angelique LaFollette wrote:

...When interacting with people outside the lifestyle, it's been my experience that it is They, who are reserved around ME. I believe many have had experience with loud, aggressive or arrogant Dominants who lack in any of the social graces, and are, when they realize what I am, somewhat intimidated, Expecting me to attempt perhaps adding them to my "Stable"...

That's an interesting point. I've never thought about the way people outside the lifestyle interract with Dominants. Most of those I've known have been very low-key in terms of their style, not announcing the fact up front with name or title, and often dressing casually but elegantly. Outside of their profile, there's often nothing mentioning this side of their life. I have heard people outside BDSM talk aggressively about how they'd treat a Dominant who 'tried anything' on them, so I know there's some kind of phobia there. I could well imagine someone insecure feeling defensive around a Dominant.

There's the other kind of Domme - the one who postures and yells and names herself MistressHighGoddess DominaMcDomme. I can see how she'd quickly draw ridicule and anger from *anyone* around, apart perhaps from those subs who want that kind of treatment.

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I wouldn't say that it is so much that Dom/mes are more difficult to meet or be friends with.  But we're less likely to consider just someone being another Dom/me as sufficient basis for hanging out and chatting all on it's own.  Now, if there's some project or social circle one is involved with and one happens to run into another Dom/me, I don't feel we're any less convivial than anyone else. 

There is, however, less of a tendency to discuss the lifestyle for some.  Every Dom/me has their own take on the best ways of doing things and they have their own well-considered reasons for holding certain points of view.  That tends to be a recipe for heated arguments more than chats.  LOL  So any chat will tend more to topics of humour or perhaps anecdotes or talk of gear.  Even more so if it is a mixed group, since it can easilly cause trouble in some way or another if submissives see/hear Dom/mes arguing over playtime topics.  It can add doubt, and that isn't good on either side when it comes to fun.

Besides, Dom/mes tend to be rather self-reliant.  You pretty much have to be, before letting other people rely on you.  Most Dom/mes aren't looking for peer approval much either, so the whole "as peers" thing is kind of moot.  Wanting peer approval or seeking acceptance also just doesn't fit with most subs' fantasy image of Dom/mes.  It's ok for a submissive to be unsure of themselves or to say or do something out of character now and then.  It's expected, and just part of the game.  But a Dom/mes pretty much always has to have their game on and the situation under control.

I would have to agree with the point already mentioned about Dom/mes being a bit less "open" due to how vanilla people tend to think of it.  People outside of the lifestyle tend to confuse Domination with abusive behaviour.  I mean face it, on our kindergarten report cards, "plays well with others" didn't include tying them up and beating them a little.  If it had, we could have all gotten an A in that.  :smileywink:

(Ok, I know that Dominance doesn't *have* to incorporate sadistic elements.  But seriously, tell a bunch of vanillas that you're a sadist and you'll get even more interesting negative reactions from some of them.  LOL)

 

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Sammantha Koppel wrote:

It really isn't so hard for most submissives to find our way safely.  Most of us have working brains.  We know what (if anything) we are looking for just as dominants know what they are looking for.

A submissive absolutely decides to whom they will submit.  A dominant can't just choose who will submit to them!  People choose each other.  It doesn't matter if it's a D/s relationship or not. 

 

I did not suggest that Subs did not have thier own brains in this matter, But over the years i have spent months, or years repairing the damage done to subs (Yes even experienced ones) by the Dominants they chose to submit to, only to find themselves being systematicly torn down. Head and heart don't always pull in the same direction.

When i was Practicing the lifestyle in "The Sims Online" years ago, it was a relatively compact group, and almost all Lifestylers IRL. It wasn't a game. But over the last five or six years in SL with the slow turning of D/s into a Role Play game we've seen an influx of persons who don't take the lifestyle for the Art, and Commitment it is. It doesn't mean they cannot be charming, or even compelling, but it Does mean they don't see serious D/s for what it is, Nor do they take it seriously enough to feel thier responsibilities, and live up to them. I've heard far to many times "It's just a Game" From Dominants who have harmed subs and slaves who were looking for a real commitment. Experienced subs have an easier time negotiating this minefield. Thier training, and experiences with thier own Dominant as well as thier exposure to other Dom/mes while in collar, whether good or bad will have will have armed the experienced sub with the perceptions to choose effectively (But remember, experience is not a 100% armor against being deceived). NEW subs, those exploring the lifestyle for the first time DO need to be very cautious, and I usually reccomend they seek the councel of more experienced subs, or Dom/mes who are recognized in a given community as trustworthy mentors.

Sammantha, it's true a sub may choose to submit to me, may decide it quite emphaticly in fact that they WILL belong to me (And this has happened to me many many times in the past), But, I, as the Dominant will be looking for several things in a sub (I could list several firm traits, as well as suggest an extensive list of intangables that I look for), Traits i find desirable in general, But i am ALSO looking for "red flags" (And this is something i always urge subs to do as well when seeking a Dominant) that warn me a sub will likely be unsuitable. The filter I use is very fine, because each sub is an investment in time, planning, care, and affection. The D/s relationship a deep symbiosis that will, when done correctly enrich the lives of both Dom/me and sub to a degree most vanilla relationships can't ever come close to. Ultimately however, it will be the Dom/me, who will decide, even if the sub is very willing, even eager, whether there will be a relationship or not.

I could tell you stories upon stories of my own experiences as a Mistress (RL and OL). The sub who was Given to me, by a Master, who cared more for her wellbeing than his own selfish desires (She served me for five years). The sub who laughed at me when I told her quite reasonably that I would own her one day (She's worn my collar for over almost six years now). The sub I basicly forced into my service to protect her from herself (Over six years now). here was even one I Trained so well on-line that when she went RL as a sub, her new Master found it hard to believe she had never served RL before. In each case, these were and ARE all Intelligent, Strong willed (and at times rebellious) women that I selected. I mentioned before that I look for certain traits in my girls, I'll sum it up in Three words. I Train Tigers.

 

Kelly May,

When i Interact with people outside the lifestyle i treat them for what they are. I don't "Try anything" as such, But as a Dominant, a certain amount of control is in my nature, But that control is over MYSELF, not those around me. I'm confident, and calm, and i demonstrate a greater self control, by being in all situations courteous, Never losing my temper. After all, How can one master others when one cannot master ones self? By "TRY anything" people are referring to those rude or Outgoing Dom/mes trying to treat Everyone they meet as a slave. They never think if they are attracted to, or "Intregued' (I love that word) by someone, That they are feeling the personality of a Real Dom/me.

If you read my profile in SL, you will first see a quote "Discourtesy is unspeakably ugly to me" Followed by a verse from the Song "Moon over Bourbon Street" My Picks,, all women I love, or who serve me are all described in Song Lyrics that have personal meaning to me. Even my Group memberships give no indication of my Lifestyle. Being what i AM however things do come out in conversation. Talk of "My girls' or more commonly "My Babies" raises a few eyebrows. There are the inevitable questions, which i answer directly, But i then return to the conversation at hand, and say no more about it. Being matter of fact, and Not making an issue of it myself is my way of trying to put people at ease. I'm not the sort who tries to "Rule the room' or be a "Conversation Crusher". I've always found such behaviour Boorish.

I don't think my lifestyle is for everyone, but i DO think even if people aren't in it they can learn from it. What i want them to learn from me is the Grace and Artistry our lifestyle represents.

 

Angel.

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I know its not part of the topic itself....but I'm not sure if I would like to called "vanilla" just because I'm not into selling my whole existance to someone or treat someone like he or she is under my level. :matte-motes-bored:

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Syo Emerald wrote:

I know its not part of the topic itself....but I'm not sure if I would like to called "vanilla" just because I'm not into selling my whole existance to someone or treat someone like he or she is under my level. :matte-motes-bored:

 

The term "Vanilla' isn't primarily a D/s usage, you will find it in Most alternative lifestyles and is generally used to describe strict hetrosexuality, with no more "Flavour" than a few alternative positions.

It's used in Lieu of the terms "Normal' or "Mainstream" mainly because these terms are very inaccurate descriptions as the number of people with "Kinks' or alternative sexual practices far outweight these sort of people, so they can Hardly be described using either term. Also use of the term "Normal' suggests that anyone With an alternative sexual practice or desire is somehow "Abnormal", A far more pajorative interpretation that people in alternative lifestyles no longer choose to accept . Vanilla is suggesting a position in a spectrum of "Flavours" that is perhaps a more basic one, but by no means the Only one.

The problem here is it's Always been hard to come up with a description that will satisfy everyone, I'm sure we would all be happier if we could just accept one another without need for labels, but as long as people feel the need to deliniate the differences between "Us" and "Them", there will always be disagreement on the most appropriate ones.

 

 

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Well, there are Doms and Doms (especially when it comes to Dommes). Some are simply not compatible to people who don't agree with everything they say and think, and find that all other Dom(me)s they come across are wannabes and fakes. The other type doesn't turn BDSM into a religion and simply likes to have some kinky fun.

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Syo Emerald wrote:

I know its not part of the topic itself....but I'm not sure if I would like to called "vanilla" just because I'm not into selling my whole existance to someone or treat someone like he or she is under my level. :matte-motes-bored:

Syo, I've never been happy with the "vanilla" appelation either. My parents relationship stands as the best example I've ever seen of two people loving each other. Insofar as the basic tenets they followed are the foundation of any good relationship, I suppose someone could think of them as the vanilla ice-cream upon which one might layer a topping. But that completely ignores the fantastic spectrum of experiences my parents shared. Anyone who looks at their life together and puts a name on the flavor of it has missed more than can be explained here. I don't see a need to differentiate relationships into anything other than perhaps good and bad.

And to me, the idea that one person in a relationship of any kind is under the level the other is just plain bad.

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Angelique, my point was simply that dominants are not the choosers in D/s relationships.  People, when considering a relationship, decide whether the other person is a fit.  Some choose wisely, some do not.  This is true of any relationship.  When a relationship fails, it can take some time to get over it.  Please understand that this is not a BDSM phenomenon.  People are hurt in relationships every day.  We turn to people we trust to help us heal.  That many subs have turned to you in these times is great.

Siting a few personal examples of you choosing subs does not prove the point.  Actually, the fact that you used the word "forced" negates the entire premise, since BDSM is about consent, not force.  I look for red flags too, Angelique and you are waving a handful!!  Most submissives I know are bored very quickly by dominants who brag endlessly about their prowess.  We would much rather a dominant demonstrate the traits we look for through their actions.

Finally, don't kid yourself.  There are plenty of submissives who can choose from any number of dominants.  Have you never heard of a submissive refusing a collar?  Ultimately, the parties will either agree to a relationship or not.  IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN IF ONLY ONE PERSON DECIDES IT!!  Unless, as you mentioned, you use force against a person's will.  But that's kidnapping, not D/s.

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Syo Emerald wrote:

I know its not part of the topic itself....but I'm not sure if I would like to called "vanilla" just because I'm not into selling my whole existance to someone or treat someone like he or she is under my level. :matte-motes-bored:

I agree with you, Syo.  But then, I'm not a big fan of labels in general.  I'm also not a fan of generalizations of people's choices.

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Sammantha, I wrote a somewhat different response to you than this one I'm posting now, But as i applied Your point of view to my own situation, and relationships over the years I have to concede your point, and I Feel no shame in doing so.

Even the woman that I Force collared, accepted the collar becase, even though being owned by One person was not something she initially desired, I had EARNED, and she has Granted me the Autority to do so.

All my Girls, however they came to me had and have One thing in Common. I Love them with all my heart.

I do, very much take my Lifestyle to heart, I've been in it RL since i was 16. I care for those who have put thier trust in me, But i'm going to Confess that i have probably fallen prey to a certain arrogance, and i Thank YOU for the Reality Check. I always said We as Dominants, and submissives are Two sides of the same coin, Each filling a need in the other. In future i shall Remember that more readily.

 

Angel.

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