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Lillie Woodells

Stalking tools?

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Rival Destiny wrote:

[...] the events swirling around them seem impossible, in this instance they are unless she is using RLV [...]

none of the described actions would take RLV...

TP to location: three options none require RLV

1) person is on firends list and has allowed mapping (or info is being relayed by a person with this set)

2) any scripted device that is worn can report it's location multiple ways to anyone it's programmed to

3) people are creatures of habit, easy to find someone where they always go. every viewer now features double click to TP, and a script for it can even defeat fixed landing points by multiple methods.

forced animation: fairly well known loop hole in permissions

1) once you grant permissions to an object via dialog, they are there until replaced, reset, or recompiled. yes even after  they go to  inventory. Worse, if that item is coppiable, even the few things that can break those permissions only break it for the rezzed copy, the original still has them. I can write one in under a minute, and disguise it as a hugger or dance ball, or chimera, and fool gobs of people with it.

online status should be obvious... there's a million of them on the marketplace... many for perfectly legit purposes.

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Sassy Romano wrote:

RLV itself offers NO tracking or stalking functions. 

All a script has to do is pick up the change event for region change and then get the current region and IM it to someone (or us a timer event and do the same).  It's trival, please lets not attach any misaligned accusations in the direction of a very innocent and functional RLV feature set, it already suffers enough from misinformation.

So what you're saying is that a script, such as the one in an Open Collar device, which enables you to tell region changes, therefore pointing out someone's location, has nothing to do with RLV?  If so, this is, indeed, counter to what I believed. 

Though I must say my experience with both is not extensive and I had assumed that feature required RLV to operate.  I do know that you have to set up the collar a specific way for someone to be able to do it and, of course, you'd have to be wearing it at the time.

Obviously, she'd know if she was wearing something with an Open Collar script, so that can't be what's going on anyway.

I've heard of such a thing happening before, from someone very reliable.  It was my sister and roommate in RL, on an old account of her's.  I know for a fact that she didn't have RLV enabled (I know more about how her viewer is set up than she does... lol) nor was she wearing any suspicious scripts. 

Nevertheless, she claimed that this guy she had just met, who didn't know where her house was, just one day, TPed in on top of her in her living room.  I thought it was strange. 

Then she told me that an RL friend of ours, whom we'd drug into SL,  had done it to her a few times, at different places, as well and she didn't know how.  We never figured it out and, since it stopped happening, didn't think much about it anymore.

We never even thought to ask our friend how she did it, though I wish we would have.  Maybe, this person should do that and, at the same time, tell the guy to knock it off.  Then, if he doesn't, unfriend, block and AR him, if necessary.

...Dres

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Thank you to everyone for your replies and advice!   Please understand this was not a RLV issue, I do not have an understanding about RLV, never had a desire or need to learn about it, so I must admit I know nothing about how it works.  I've heard a few things from a few people, and that is the extent of my knowledge on the subject. 

These questions were posed as a curiosity.  I didn't know if it were possible to track a person other than through the mapping ability, and if so, how can you block that.  I also did not know what the AV key was nor how it is useful information, as it is advertisted on the marketplace item I saw.  I fell that the questions I had have been sufficently answered, so thank you all very much!! :) 

I will pass this information on to my friend and store it in my own brain for future reference if needed :) 

 

 

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

So what you're saying is that a script, such as the one in an Open Collar device, which enables you to tell region changes, therefore pointing out someone's location, has nothing to do with RLV?  If so, this is, indeed, counter to what I believed. [...]

 hate to be the bearer of bad news but yup... it actually predates RLV (and was popular in much of the gear back in the day)

there's a vague possibility that an old technique for beating map-to being turned off is back in play... it was fixed LONG ago, but with all that legacy server code floating around, who knows...

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Void Singer wrote:


Dresden Ceriano wrote:

So what you're saying is that a script, such as the one in an Open Collar device, which enables you to tell region changes, therefore pointing out someone's location, has nothing to do with RLV?  If so, this is, indeed, counter to what I believed. [...]

 hate to be the bearer of bad news but yup... it actually predates RLV (and was popular in much of the gear back in the day)

there's a vague possibility that an old technique for beating map-to being turned off is back in play... it was fixed LONG ago, but with all that legacy server code floating around, who knows...

Well, it's not necessarily bad news, I just didn't know.  Now that I think about it, the spy features menu was separate from the RLV menu, so I don't know where I got that idea.  I didn't remember that before because I rarely use it anymore.

What do you mean by "legacy server code floating around"?  Are you saying that new server versions may have, inadvertently, opened up old loopholes that old scripts can once again use?

...Dres *knows next to nothing about scripting*

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Sassy Romano wrote:

RLV itself offers NO tracking or stalking functions. 

All a script has to do is pick up the change event for region change and then get the current region and IM it to someone (or us a timer event and do the same).  It's trival, please lets not attach any misaligned accusations in the direction of a very innocent and functional RLV feature set, it already suffers enough from misinformation.

So what you're saying is that a script, such as the one in an Open Collar device, which enables you to tell region changes, therefore pointing out someone's location, has nothing to do with RLV?  If so, this is, indeed, counter to what I believed. 

Pretty much yes.  The llGetRegionName and llInstantMessage functions and the change event are all LSL and are not RLV functions.  The above is all that's required to have a simple script that sends location to someone.

OpenCollar has scripts that may utilise RLV functionality but there is NO feature in the RLV functions that is assisting anyone here.

Merchants who offer RLV enabled items have enough of an uphill battle trying to educate people as to what RLV does and more importantly what it does NOT do, it's better not to suggest things that are not responsible.

Only 2 days ago I had to explain to someone that "no, RLV will not let someone take your L$, nor can they see or take things from your inventory". 

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

What do you mean by "legacy server code floating around"?  Are you saying that new server versions may have, inadvertently, opened up old loopholes that old scripts can once again use?

 most of SL is still built around the same basic sever code from it's early days... component get upgraded and (hopefully) some of the mess that was cross coded gets weeded out (things like one component using special values  or avoids them with another component but not the rest, or having a different privilege level)... but it's possible sometimes to miss those when upgrading...

there was a viewer side tweak at one time that disabled the ability to hide from mapping, it is vaguely possible a change that prevented (or just avoiding) that happening was uncovered by a more recent change... it's even more vaguely possible a new feature exposed it, or created a new version of it...

but it's much more likely one of the 3 trusty old standbys I mentioned before are responsible. I've personally seen 3 cases of "friends" passing info to harassers, in two of those the "friend" and harasser were actually the same person, using one account to get close and "console" the target, and the other to harass... sick puppies regardless of the main goal IMO.

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Void, I think you are exactly right.  We only see the stalker when they guess right about where we are.  We don't see the dozens of times that they guess wrong.  So it seem like magic that they tp directly in front of you.  You don't know how long they hung around the region on the off chance that you might go there eventually and show up on there radar. 

That is what stalkers do.  It sounds a little creepy, but I think most stalkers are harmless.  They just may be a little bit socially challenged or shy and have trouble saying "Hey I like you and want to know you better".  So they follow you like a puppy. 

All you really need to tell your friend is to be gentle but firm and set some boundaries.  There is a little thing called stop animating my avatar in the world menu (don't know where it is in V2 or 3).  Use it and you can turn off any script that is running on you. 

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kattatonia Wickentower wrote:

[...] There is a little thing called stop animating my avatar in the world menu (don't know where it is in V2 or 3).  Use it and you can turn off any script that is running on you. 

sadly only a temporary fix, it only stops what's currently running, which can be instantly restarted. but if you do manage to get it stopped for a second, and tp to a different region quickly, there's a small chance the permissions will break in that copy if they try to use right after you are gone (several have protection from this built in, by checking a sensor before trying to animate), this is only a minimal annoyance if the object was a copy of the one that already had permissions, since they can rez a new, unbroken copy.

the only realy protection from this it to AR repeatedly (which doesn't help until LL does something about it), or TP to a region they can't get to

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Good point Dilbert, I was just focusing on the 'controling the avi' part I guess.  I haven't had any first hand experience with it either so I'm not sure if it's there either.

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Lillie Woodells wrote:

Hi folks!  I'm not sure if this is the correct place for this, but I'm curious about something and I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this.  I have a couple of questions actually.

 

While chatting with a young lady new to SL, she posed a concern to me.  She has another friend who seems to tp directly to her, as if by invitation, no matter where she is on any parcel without the invitation, and without her telling him where she is in SL.  She also will begin dancing with him without any invitation to do so or pose balls visible, as if on a dance hud, but without clicking the animate avatar button. 

 

We've gone over the whole... Did he give you any gifts that you're wearing bit.  I've suggested she do an avatar reset and remove all her attachments and replace them one by one.  Then she posed a question to me:  Is there some kind of hud that he can wear that can track and control me without being detectable?"    So I searched the marketplace with the word "Undetectable" and found an item that says you can either rez it or wear it as a hud, enter any avatars name, and it will tell you where they are in SL, and give you their AV key. 

 

So,  I'm curious now what can be done with an AV key, and is there a way to block something like this? 

 

Howdy, Miss Lillie!

Here's how it's all done.  Most likely your friend is on the friends list of the person she thinks is stalking her.  He is most likely using the Phoenix Viewer.  In Phoenix, there is, in the radar section, a button that says "TP to."  I've used it before also to get up to a sky platform that had a lot of people on it.  I just picked a name off the radar list and clicked TP to.  And away I went, right up to him.  LOL!  I'm sure he wondered where on earth I came from all of a sudden, because I appeared nearly right on top of his head.

So the guy is most likely using the TP to function in Phoenix.  The person doesn't need to be on your friends list to teleport to them either. 

As far as the dancing is concerned, she probably went dancing with him one time, accepted the animate your avatar dropdown and then had a good time dancing.  After the event, he probably turned off the dancing part of his HUD and they both stopped.  There is an avatar tool out there called "Huddles."   I use it for nearly everything.  My AO, my dance hud, landmarks, etc.  When somebody receives an invitation to use my Huddles, they get a menu that asks permission to animate and tells them that to stop the animation to type "/99stop" in local chat.  If they don't do this, the next time they are near me and I turn on the dancing part of my Huddles, a dancing they will go!  Because they are still in my Huddles as approved dancers.  See what I mean? 

That kind of took me a million words to explain, but, I have experience with both these things and use both all the time.  I'm forever teleporting to someone using that TP to option in Phoenix.  It really works well!

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Maryanne Solo wrote:

Yes I used that about three times within the old phoenix. But did it work from sim to sim? I never tried that.

It only works when you're in the same sim.

...Dres

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perhaps he searche her on the map ( i assume he knows her name) and when on the same sim, uses radar to tp to her. an avatar tracker can also track which sim she is on and then he can tp to that sim, and use radar to tp to her...........perhaps the dancing is an RLV hud.....tell her to take her name out of search, and disable her RLV if she has it..............

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wiked Anton wrote:

perhaps the dancing is an RLV hud.....tell her to take her name out of search, and disable her RLV if she has it..............

and another... PLEASE read the entire thread, learn about RLV, there is no feature in RLV that permits an avatar to be forced to animate, this is simply a pre-existing acceptance of a request to animate in a dance hud (or similar) that hasn't been reset.

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Sassy Romano wrote:


wiked Anton wrote:

perhaps the dancing is an RLV hud.....tell her to take her name out of search, and disable her RLV if she has it..............

and another... PLEASE read the entire thread, learn about RLV, there is no feature in RLV that permits an avatar to be forced to animate, this is simply a pre-existing acceptance of a request to animate in a dance hud (or similar) that hasn't been reset.

Absolutely correct, Miss Sassy.  People...this is NOT an RLV problem.  The OP's friend does not have RLV enabled as stated earlier in the thread.

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wiked Anton wrote:

perhaps the dancing is an RLV hud.....tell her to take her name out of search, and disable her RLV if she has it..............

 

RLV is not some sort of set of secret magic charms that evil scripters use to bespell poor muggles.   It's all there in the RLV API  for anyone to consult.  

While the examples and syntax may be confusing for non-scripters, the descriptions of all the commands  and what they  do are clear enough; there is nothing an RLV script can do to force you to be animated (or let anyone else read your IMs, come to that).    The worst it can do is stop you taking off a conventionally scripted object that enables someone else to animate you, or force you to sit on something that animates you.

 

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I know how it can be

*

done. But I am

*

not likely to

*

tell you or anyone

*

else how to do it in a public

*

forum, am I?

***

Rudi

***

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I'm not a scripter. At all.

But, is it at all possible that he is using an alt in the same circle of friends, and knowing her usual hangouts, hangs out there in an alt, and then logs himself in on the avatar she knows him under - and then, goes there to surprise/scare her?

The usual methods for shaking a stalker seem to be:

Hide all your groups in your profile. Edit/Groups/Info/uncheck "show group in profile."

Completely change your routine.

Change acquaintances, especially ones who seem a little familiar i.e. the same AO, clothes, skin, shape, and speech pattern as the possible stalker.  Or who ask about that person a little too often.

In time they usually will get bored, and stop.

If all else fails, tell her to lay low a while and make a new avatar.  

I doubt he's got some scripts on her, especially if she changed everything. It's probably some form of social engineering.

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Potosi Abonwood wrote:

Sounds like it could be one of these things:

 

 

 

Perhaps a helpful comment I found in one of the reviews,

"And for info: The enforced animations can be stopped using the animation explorer. The HUD wearer will then have to reapply the animation."

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that happens to me, i have been stalked for a long time, i have reported this person to LL lots of times, and yes, the person pops up and appears right by your side , wherever you are in the grid, this stalker knows exactly where you are,  i think these stalkers know how to script or are hackers because they are not only stalking you in sl  be aware, he must be stalking you when you are searching through the web, the pages you are visiting you will find him there also, i dont really know but i wonder why linden labs doesnt do anything when you are report them, they dont listen to you, they wont do anything because i have been stalked for years and reporting for years, since linden labs didnt listen to me, i griefed the stalker everytime he was getting close to me, because you know who is the stalker, he gives you clues. anyone can get pissed for not having privacy, then the stalker reported me and  i got banned,  i cant understand why the stalker become the victim and you the agressive  player while, LL dont take your reports seriously, its very creepy. yes its stalking if you are wondering and yes they can track you gride wide, but im not sure how they do it

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