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Villain Baroque

Male shortage - A survey

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Heck, you are talking about male and female. I heard people saying they are all 'bots' and I mean...the real definition of a bot is a software entity that does tasks you would expect a human to do....so, I mean...they aren't even human controlled...so forget gender...some claim we dont' even know if they are bots or not!

Turns on ALICE palen bot

How does "male shortage" make you feel?

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JeanneAnne wrote:

2. Many of the female avvies have rl guys behind them. I know at least one rl guy who says that having a female avatar is more "fun." I think that in some cases this comes down to a power issue. Guys can't dominate rl women like they would like to so they get off on being "in control" of a female avatar in sl. These are just my observations or opinions, of course, so take them for what they're worth (0).

I think we rather choose female avatars because we either want to explore our feminine side (which is the only side of some biological men) or because we are jealous of female privileges :) Such as:  

 

  • The privilege of unlimited dress options. Crossdressing has long become socially acceptable for women, but is still a taboo for men.

     

  • The privilege of unlimited behavioral options. Basically the same as above. It is socially acceptable for women to work in traditionally male jobs and exhibit traditionally male behavioral traits, but the opposite is still frowned upon. 

     

  • The privilege of non-sexual physical intimacy among adults. Women can hug their friends without without being suspected of having a sexual motive, and, in case of same-sex friends, without having their sexual orientation questioned.

     

  • The privilege of showing emotions. Women don't lose social status in the eyes of their fellow gender if they openly talk about their feelings or cry in public.

     

  • The privilege of being attractive and desirable, and being fully aware of it. Most men don't consider themselves attractive, and many think of themselves as clumsy, hairy, and bearish creatures. That is, unless they happen to be rather feminine and un-manly, which is considered unattractive by both genders and is therefore even more devastating for the male self-image. So in order to render our ape-like selves beautiful, we turn ourselves into that which we personally find most attractive.

     

  • The privilege of being courted. When looking for a flirt, women are free to make the first move, but it is not expected from them. On the contrary. This could also be called the privilege of shyness, since shyness is seen as a character flaw in males (and is also another reason why fellow males might question one's sexual orientation).

     

  • The privilege of being supported and protected. Deep within, every adult is still a scared child. The softer and more infantile features of women trigger protective instincts in males. Women are a lot more likely to receive help and assistance from strangers (and not only from male strangers. See next point).

     

  • The privilege of being trusted. Female facial features also elicit more trust and generally more positive and amiable responses from people of both genders.

     

  • The privilege of not being feared. Women might perceive a female stranger as competition, but not as a physical threat. Male strangers, on the other hand, are seen as a potential threat by both genders. Men are also more likely of being perceived as potential perverts, seeing that paraphilia is an almost exlusively male domain (which is exactly why the act of crossdressing is only socially acceptable for women. If men do it, people suspect sexual arousal as the main motive).

     

  • The privilege of being weak. Of course we all know that women are strong and self-reliant, but it is not expected from them in a relationship. If they want to, they can choose to rely on the help and support of their partner, and leave it to him to deal with unpleasant situations. For example, nobody expects a woman to play the hero if somebody insults or threatens her partner, and nobody calls her henpecked or *****-whipped if she chooses to adopt a submissive role.

 

It can be extremely liberating to break out of the male gender role -- which is the only gender role that still exists in the Western World -- and act on impulse just as the mood takes me. With a female avatar, I can act strong and self-assured in one moment and shy and dependant in the next. This would be impossible for a man.

(ETA: On top of that, women are also the politically correct and righteous gender. Being biologically male is a severe character flaw nowadays. We are the bad guys who are always seeking to control and oppress, exploit and objectify the other gender :) Everybody knows that we are disgusting pigs, that we are essentially useless, that the world would be a much better place if everything was run by women, and that it is not the least bit sexist to say this. It doesn't come as a surprise that many men have come to detest their masculinity and decide to be female when offered a gender choice).

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Well, Ishtara I can agree on some of the points, but not on all of them. I would worry if every guy in SL who have at least a female alt would struggle with being a man.

- A lot of men are attracted to women and think of them as sexy, beautiful and dressy. They simple like to look at a female charakter, thats why we had Lara Croft in a typical game for males and not some guy as a hero. You can also see that in many fantasy games, where the females sometimes wear armor that looks more like beachwear.

- Not to forget the controlling aspects. Hey, which straight man doesn't want to create a female body that is close to some of his fantasies? You mentioned that many men don't see themselves as beautiful, I guess thats why some of them rather pick an avatar gender that is considered to be pretty.

- Its easier to dress a female avatar in SL (more clothes, more hairoptions)

- Other guys tend to think behind a female avatar is a real woman and so they tend to be nicer to them. For the moment, their brains seem to ignore the fact that there could be a man behind the sexy chick, that strips for them and ask kindly for some lindens.....

 

Last but not least I have to say that being a woman isn't as easy as you seem to see it. We are also forced to fit a gender role. A girl that fights on the playground with other children isn't normal.....if a boy does the same the adults say thats just how boys are. And a woman who flirts a lot, play with her sexyness and change their boyfriends often is easily called a **bleep** (that wouldn't happen to a man).

And of course, when it comes to crossdessing....well pants have a practical use for women. Skirts and dresses won't have a huge practical use for men. I'm not sure if a man in a short dress would look pretty :matte-motes-sour:

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I have met several female toons (usually blood elves as they look most like live humanoids on the Horde side) in WoW that are operated by men.  I asked once why this was so and the answer was 'I would rather watch a female ass ingame than a male ass.'  As in SL, the cam angle when operating a toon is from the back.  I found this amusing as even a female blood elf is not what I would consider 'sexy.'

The few men I have met (who admitted they are RL men) operating female avatars in SL enjoy exploring their feminine side and a couple of them had SL partners who were also men operating female avatars.  When voice was enabled in clubs, I would often hear a male voice in the chat that belonged to a female avatar.

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Villain Baroque wrote:

I have read several times now that there is a supposed "
Male shortage
" in Second Life. Indeed? Or is that just a perceived shortage? Well, I doubt this shortage because I perceive it otherwise.

 

 

 

When you see these types of complaints, it's usually in regards to "available" (as in unpartnered, uninvolved) men. Or at least that's been my experience. So in regards to your findings, did you ask/investigate whether the men you counted were involved or did you just count bodies?

Big difference.

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

  • The privilege of being supported and protected. Deep within, every adult is still a scared child. The softer and more infantile features of women trigger protective instincts in males. Women are a lot more likely to receive help and assistance from strangers (and not only from male strangers. See next point).

First, I disagree that within every adult is a scared child.  I haven't felt like a "scared child" since I was a child, and never felt very scared then either. But, that sentence is not what I want to focus on.  (even though it certainly is not true for me)

In another thread recently, I wrote that being a petite blond woman in RL, resulted in both men and other women treating me as less intelligent and child-like.  Also, frequently being insulted, patronized and condescended to.  (and yes it is discriminatory, because not all people are treated this way.)

Here you say that having softer "more infantile" features results in some kind of "privilege".  I seriously doubt that you'd want the "privilege" of having your intelligence insulted, or the privilege of being patronized and intellectually dismissed.   Yet, that's what happens Ishy.  

You're only seeing the positive spin that you decide to put on the feminine qualities. You are totally leaving out the negative side of having what you call "infantile" features.   Even you using the word "infantile" here to describe women, I find rather patronizing and insulting, Ishy.   Why can't the features that women have just be described as "feminine"?  

I don't fault someone for wanting the "privilege" of being protected, which is maybe why some on the grid play as children, so they can relive or live for the first time, the protected status of a child.  But, let's be clear here, that your version of being a woman or being feminine is your fantasy, and you've cherry picked the perceived "privileges" and cast off the very real negatives that society puts on femininity. 

 

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I thought Istara's post was very apt and I was quite touched by it. Yes, women do have matching negatives for all those positives and being female is no walk in the park, but the same is true for men. I'm pretty sure our perception of the privileges of men is equally skewed. I do realize my view is heavily colored by the fact that I've been lucky in meeting some incredibly nice men who were sweet and genuine and not trying to talk me onto a poseball both in RL & SL., but basically, things are rough all over.

 

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Stella Carver wrote:

I thought Istara's post was very apt and I was quite touched by it. Yes, women do have matching negatives for all those positives and being female is no walk in the park, but the same is true for men. I'm pretty sure our perception of the privileges of men is equally skewed. I do realize my view is heavily colored by the fact that I've been lucky in meeting some incredibly nice men who were sweet and genuine and not trying to talk me onto a poseball both in RL & SL., but basically, things are rough all over.

 

Of course. 

But, I doubt that when Ishy role-plays in SL to experience a feminine side, that it's to experience real femininity.  

Instead the roleplay is a contrived experience based upon a cherry-picked fantasy. 

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:


Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

  • The privilege of being supported and protected. Deep within, every adult is still a scared child. The softer and more infantile features of women trigger protective instincts in males. Women are a lot more likely to receive help and assistance from strangers (and not only from male strangers. See next point).

First, I disagree that within every adult is a scared child.  I haven't felt like a "scared child"
since
I was a child, and never felt very scared then either. But, that sentence is not what I want to focus on.  (even though it certainly is
not
true for me)

In another thread recently, I wrote that being a petite blond woman in RL, resulted in both men and other women treating me as less intelligent and child-like.  Also, frequently being insulted, patronized and condescended to.  (and yes it
is
discriminatory, because not
all
people are treated this way.)

Here you say that having softer "more infantile" features results in some kind of "privilege".  I seriously doubt that you'd want the "privilege" of having your intelligence insulted, or the privilege of being patronized and intellectually dismissed.   Yet, that's what happens Ishy.  

You're only seeing the positive spin that you decide to put on the feminine qualities. You are totally leaving out the negative side of having what you call "infantile" features.   Even you using the word "infantile" here to describe women, I find rather patronizing and insulting, Ishy.   Why can't the features that women have just be described as "feminine"?  

I don't fault someone for wanting the "privilege" of being protected, which is maybe why some on the grid play as children, so they can relive or live for the first time, the protected status of a child.  But, let's be clear here, that your version of being a woman or being feminine is your fantasy, and you've cherry picked the perceived "privileges" and cast off the very real negatives that society puts on femininity. 

 

What Ishy said points to the pressures placed on men to "be a man" in RL and how being able to have those pressures alleviated in SL by using a female avatar makes her feel.  So, yeah she's gonna "cherry pick" in this instant... why would you expect anything else?  Her reasons for being a woman in SL have nothing to do with how you are treated as a woman in RL.

Perhaps that's just something you wouldn't understand, because you're not a man and are under the impression that the pressure she speaks of isn't as bad as it actually is.  Of course, most men aren't going to speak of such things because of how it might make them look... which is another effect of that pressure.  It's a vicious circle and I applaud Ishy for having the guts to talk about it in the first place.

...Dres

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:


Stella Carver wrote:

I thought Istara's post was very apt and I was quite touched by it. Yes, women do have matching negatives for all those positives and being female is no walk in the park, but the same is true for men. I'm pretty sure our perception of the privileges of men is equally skewed. I do realize my view is heavily colored by the fact that I've been lucky in meeting some incredibly nice men who were sweet and genuine and not trying to talk me onto a poseball both in RL & SL., but basically, things are rough all over.

 

Of course. 

But, I doubt that when Ishy role-plays in SL to experience a feminine side, that it's to experience
real
femininity.  

Instead the roleplay is a contrived experience based upon a cherry-picked fantasy. 

I doubt you have a problem with that, considering that's what SL is all about.

...Dres

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I didn't have the feeling Ish was just talking about playing a woman in SL. From his post I guess he wished that men could have the same freedom to do what ever they like to do (which they have in SL, in this case acting feminine) also in RL, without being judged by someone. But from this and his roleplay as a female also comes a very focused view on the bright side of being a woman.

But from my point of view, being a woman is nowhere easier than being a man, not in SL or in RL.

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Syo Emerald wrote:

But from my point of view, being a woman is nowhere easier than being a man, not in SL or in RL.

Are you sure? Women usually live longer. After a long hard day of being a man, I like to go home and be a woman. 

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Thats pretty silly to say a womans life is easier just because they live longer like statistics say.

Ask the milions of woman from the past and today if they think they have an easier life cause they life a couple more years. That would be like saying to a prisoner he has a better imprisonment cause its longer.

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

.......


It can be extremely liberating to break out of the male gender role -- which is the only gender role that still exists in the Western World -- and act on impulse just as the mood takes me. With a female avatar, I can act strong and self-assured in one moment and shy and dependant in the next. This would be impossible for a man.

(ETA: On top of that, women are also the politically correct and righteous gender. Being biologically male is a severe character flaw nowadays. We are the bad guys who are always seeking to control and oppress, exploit and objectify the other gender
:)
Everybody knows that we are disgusting pigs, that we are essentially useless, that the world would be a much better place if everything was run by women, and that it is not the least bit sexist to say this. It doesn't come as a surprise that many men have come to detest their masculinity and decide to be female when offered a gender choice).

I'm sure that there are a plethora of reasons why a person of particular genetic sex & gender identification would choose to represent themselves with an avatar of different sex &/or gender in SL. I will stand by my assertion that one of those reasons can be to exert a sense of power or control over the opposite sex/gender. I'm sure that all the reasons you list play into the decision likewise.

As for "...the world would be a much better place if everything was run by women, and that it is not the least bit sexist to say this," I completely agree. It isn't sexist to point out the fact that virtually all wars have been started by men, that men commit virtually all rapes and a disproportionately high percentage of murders and violent assaults. In this day & age, the technology exists for growing testicular tissue en vitro culture. The elimination of the human male may be the only way to avoid womankind going extinct.  :matte-motes-bashful-cute:

Jeanne

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May I friendly remind everyone to stay on topic? Looks as this has become a very interesting discussion about scared children and cross gender dressing.

Please go in-world and collect some raw data!

Just as a reminder: Please use the following structure to make it easier for me to evaluate your posts and put the results back here on the forum.

Name of place:Ahern
SLurl:e.g. http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ahern/100/100/26/
Date:e.g. 2011-05-27
Avatars counted:22
Males counted:10
Females counted:         8

The total number of Avatars counted may be higher than the addidtion of males and females due to transgender and undefinable avatars like robots.

Thank you for participating!

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Randall Ahren wrote:


 

Are you sure? Women usually live longer. After a long hard day of being a man, I like to go home and be a woman. 

YAY !!!   Why not i say.(seriously):matte-motes-big-grin-squint: also , if you make female clothing, you need a female alt to try them with b4 you put them on sale..

 

         

 

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JeanneAnne wrote:

As for "...the world would be a much better place if everything was run by women, and that it is not the least bit sexist to say this,"

 

Oh, I'm pretty sure that Ishy was just being facetious with that remark, and it's to be taken as such.  (Gawd, I hope so)

 


JeanneAnne wrote:

 

As for "...the world would be a much better place if everything was run by women, and that it is not the least bit sexist to say this,"
I completely agree.

 

I disagree.  The world should not be run by those of a particular biological sex, but instead things should be run by those who have a superior capability to do so.  

For example:  I think Hillary Clinton would make a better US president than Barack Obama.  But, not because she's a woman.  But, because I think she, like her husband Bill, would have a better grasp of the fiscal economics that this country needs.  (neither would be my first choice of president though)

 


JeanneAnne wrote:

The elimination of the human male may be the only way to avoid womankind going extinct.


Males are the reason that females have thrived all this time.  Certainly no need to eliminate them. 

You envision a world without my father, brothers, sons or lovers?  Umm, no thanks.  

But, your draconian statement is a excellent example of why just being a woman, is not sufficient criteria for running the world. 

 

 

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:


JeanneAnne wrote:

As for "...the world would be a much better place if everything was run by women, and that it is not the least bit sexist to say this,"

 

Oh, I'm pretty sure that Ishy was just being facetious with that remark, and it's to be taken as such.  (Gawd, I hope so)

 

I know Celestiall, and so was I being...

(Don't tell Ishy, tho~!!):smileywink:

Jeanne


 

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Syo Emerald wrote:

Thats pretty silly to say a womans life is easier just because they live longer like statistics say.

Ask the milions of woman from the past and today if they think they have an easier life cause they life a couple more years. That would be like saying to a prisoner he has a better imprisonment cause its longer.

Speaking of prisoners, isn't the incarceration rate for men much higher than that for women?

twitter002.png

If you don't base it on statistics and data, what do you base it on? 

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But that doesn't have to do anything with age....(and you said a longer life (in this case normaly not more than a couple of years) make a life easier).

It's mens fault if the do crime (and so make their lifes harder) :o

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Villain,  This 'study' seems to be important to you.  May I respectfully suggest that you continue your research and report back should you so desire.  Or, publish the results on your blog and point us there.  I, personally, have no interest in counting avatars when I go inworld.

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Syo Emerald wrote:

But that doesn't have to do anything with age....(and you said a longer life (in this case normaly not more than a couple of years) make a life easier).

It's mens fault if the do crime (and so make their lifes harder)
:o

Do a survey in a nursing home. The ratio of women to men is about seven to one.

One point of the study was that there was bias in sentencing based on gender. The most pronounced bias is for statutory rape. A female teacher engaging in sexual relations with a male student is punished much less harshly than if the genders are reversed. 

 

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I don't know about that... I'd guess it's possibly reflective of RL - I mean, a mom stays @ home with the kids and hops on 2L and creates, builds, etc. - hate to use that as a stereotype, but take a look at the marketplace... apparel, avatars, accessories for women outnumber male avatar stuff around 2:1.  Either male creatives on 2L are cheap, women just don't create enough male stuff or advertise in the marketplace, or perhaps -

The female avatars simply outnumber the males of 2L?

Then again, unless I really accessorize I'm not completely a male avatar :)

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Cobb Compton wrote:

I don't know about that... I'd guess it's possibly reflective of RL - I mean, a mom stays @ home with the kids and hops on 2L and creates, builds, etc. - hate to use that as a stereotype, but take a look at the marketplace... apparel, avatars, accessories for women outnumber male avatar stuff around 2:1.  Either male creatives on 2L are cheap, women just don't create enough male stuff or advertise in the marketplace, or perhaps -

The female avatars simply outnumber the males of 2L?

Then again, unless I
really
accessorize I'm not completely a male avatar
:)

I just Googled...

"women's clothing stores"  117 Million hits.

"men's clothing stores" 56 Million hits.

So yes, the SL marketplace mirrors the RL marketplace.

;-)

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