Mickey Vandeverre Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 he's not gonna take you up on that. I might, and get a potted plant to page one by end of week eta: ooops...nope. not gonna attempt that, as my own store page one is saturated with potted plants as it is already. Time would be better spent on another type product that is not on page one at the moment to show a broader range of items, as it seems that they tend to shop from your own page one (of course we do not have sufficient tools to confirm that) now...if we had categories within our own store, off to the left....perhaps labeled Plants, Flowers, Patio Pots....etc.....then it would be fine to work that angle, as they could continue to shop from your store by choosing that category. But as it is....I think they generally shop from first few pages. Now....how those potted plants got to page one of my own store....really did not have much to do with a "potted plant" search evidently, or competing with 9L products or free products. The 35L plant sells a zillion times more than the 5L plant, and has all year long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 You can stick one of mine in a pot and resell it if you like, as many times as you want. I'll send you a free copymod if you approve, and you can either sell it or not sell it, or mod it a thousand times and create listing titles randomly scramled from pieces of ralph's text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 That would be a ton of fun! Which post of text should I use for the keywords? just give me a specific post # from this thread. I'll find a pretty pot that I can describe with the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 The potted plant discussions seem like an obvious place to start. Maybe you can show him that with the same words he used to describe the problem, you were able to solve the problem. Why not price the thing way up once you get it ranked and see what happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Yep, that's the post I wanted - great keywords there. Since I have to make and package new product - need a bit longer than end of week - kinda slow on that. And would like to do several - at all different prices. Might need weekend to pull that off, but will let you know when packaged and in magic box on market. Also - throw in a google challenge, so I can see if I can make it to page one on google search too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 BTW... how did this just go from a 9 page thread to an 8 page thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 OK, now it's 9 again, but that doesn't count. You know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 holy cow - the post I was going to use keywords from was removed. wazzup with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 What's up is that if you do what I suggested, it makes ralph look not only incorrect, but ridiculous. Let me just openly challenge him right now to repost that text if he dares. It's not like we don't know essentially what it said, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 well geez...that was just kinda rude. took half the conversation with it, but totally used to that here. Lemme think on this for a few hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Yeah, it almost seems like wasn't here for his stated purpose in the first place. Imagine that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefertiti Nefarious Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 So out of a total 1695427 marketplace items, approx 45% of them are listed at 0 to 100L$. Nearly half of the marketplace items are valuIed at less than 100 L$ Yes, they are. And suddenly - faced with some facts about the number of freebies and cheapies, it's not the free and <10L items you are whining about, it's everything under $100L. Nice mobile goalposts you have there. That's not good for Linden Labs and not good for creators I think you need to prove that point. It's been VERY good to me, as a player and a creator. Digital goods and the skills needed to create digital goods are being devalued. Maybe you feel devalued, but I don't. But the main issue with 0 - 10L$ content is PRODUCT PLACEMENT. This low quality, low cost content should not take up the first pages when searching Relevance. Your assumption that low price automatically means low quality has not been proven. It appears that your gripe is that your alt's higher priced stuff is not on the first page. Free and cheaper content should not be given priority placement. Linden Lab don't make any decent commission from it and the merchant themselves don't make any real money. If Linden Labs was not making enough money on the free and cheaper content, they could ban it or increase the commissions. It appears that you would like to ban the lower-priced competition to increase your alt's income. It's all bad. It devalues the marketplace and obscures good quality content. Still conflating higher price with higher quality, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 ummm...hey Josh...I was lining up the experiment, and was planning on using the keywords that he removed. so was doing some research on that first page. I can't really achieve first page next to a product that has 30 or 80 reviews - that's due to longevity. Probably can't do that in a week, unless they are scoring for price, in which I would need to use the box of (that particular item) on page 10, which already has a wee bit of longevity (that phrase is an oxymoron I think)...then just pump up sales on that one. but can perhaps compete with the items that have 2 or 3 or 5 reviews, and those are the ones that Ralph said had "saturated" the first pages of that keyword phrase, and well..... wee bit of research there on the reviews, and Ralph's issue ain't "price" on those pages, if you get my drift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I enjoy SL & I refuse to spend a cent on it. Well, okay, I spent $12 on a book about SL, written by an anthropologist, but I haven't spent a cent on SL and don't intend to. I have plenty of fun in SL. I wear freebie stuff & stuff people have given me, or stuff I've bought w/ $L people have given me, and my avvie is gorgeous. I don't need to build anything since there's plenty of things already built and most of the places I go are deserted. The music is free & the conversation & friendship is free. I don't need to "own property" since friends have made their SL homes available to me and even if they hadn't, I can just log off from wherever I am & log back in there. It won't destroy SL for me and others like me if everything is free. It won't change a thing. So go ahead & make it all free, for all I care. So what? Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 30 or more reviews, especially if they are overwhelmingly positive, are almost certainly not due to longevity. If reviews are key to getting things on the front page, you can just do it the way those other people probably did; send a message to memebers of some kind of group telling them what to say and letting them know for how long the thing will be offered for free (or you can just pay them to buy the thing and review it). If ralph wants those products off the screen, though, maybe he should just contact all those reviewers and pay them to remove their reviews, or he can similarly abuse his own social network for spurious reviews as you might as well. Meanwhile. it's VERY clear that if ralph understands the difference between quality and price, he's working very hard to convince us otherwise. Maybe I can explain it this way... If a hardware store sells both nails and hammers, each hammer will cost more than any one nail, regardless of the quality of the items. If the store has 100 kinds of hammers and 100 kinds of nails, the best nail will still cost less than the worst hammer. Some SLM merchants sell the equivalent of a hammer. Some sell the equivalent of a nail. ralph is trying to define what may be some of the world's best nails as "lousy hammers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 But don't you NEED a house, a car, and either a gun, or a really big **bleep**? Surely everyone needs those things in SL. After all, without them a person can't... oh, wait... I guess you're right. Nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Josh Susanto wrote: 30 or more reviews, especially if they are overwhelmingly positive, are almost certainly not due to longevity. If reviews are key to getting things on the front page, you can just do it the way those other people probably did; send a message to memebers of some kind of group telling them what to say and letting them know for how long the thing will be offered for free (or you can just pay them to buy the thing and review it). If ralph wants those products off the screen, though, maybe he should just contact all those reviewers and pay them to remove their reviews, or he can similarly abuse his own social network for spurious reviews as you might as well. Meanwhile. it's VERY clear that if ralph understands the difference between quality and price, he's working very hard to convince us otherwise. Maybe I can explain it this way... If a hardware store sells both nails and hammers, each hammer will cost more than any one nail, regardless of the quality of the items. If the store has 100 kinds of hammers and 100 kinds of nails, the best nail will still cost less than the worst hammer. Some SLM merchants sell the equivalent of a hammer. Some sell the equivalent of a nail. ralph is trying to define what may be some of the world's best nails as "lousy hammers". well heck yeah, they're all positive, and all the same names, and if you check profiles, most look similar....and they dominate the first 14 pages! holy cow, Ralph opened a can of worms on that one. I adjusted one of my listings and hit page 6 right away, but I would not normally use that keyword - it's a bit of a stretch. But by god if the person selling the same dang things is using it on the first 14 pages.....I'm bustin' it out. If someone wants to flag, fine, but they better get their fingers hoppin' on 50 other listings with interesting reviews. (when I drop g's in my words...I ain't too happy) That blows Ralph's theory off on that particular keyword phrase. I'm going to go further. He's talking about Price being a problem. That item that just now hit page 6 with a tweak sells at 25L and that's a competitive price for that item. That item should not sell for 100L. The item he identified on page 14 is a grouping of items that sells for 145L. on the 25L item....I sold 438 - no reviews. That's not totally out of the ordinary. And it hit page 6 (and keep in mind that something else is going on with those pages! - see above) on the 145L item....I sold only 142. that's the one on page 14, which is not that far away from page 6, considering the above problem....which indicates that a larger price will get more traction than amount of sales. (but I already knew that when they don't have the algorithms all screwed up, which I have a thread here somewhere, the week they were messed up) That's not really jiving with Ralph's problem on pricing. And the above problem on reviews....if corrected....would change up the whole game entirely. By "longevity" Josh....I mean that they've been on the market long enough to garner quite a few sales. Really mean sales amounts - but if you consider the item that I've got that made it to page 6 right now, with 438 sales - I can't really run an effective experiment on a new product and get close to that number of sales within a week. Looks to me like Ralph has another issue to deal with. (and I've had that issue all along - we all have - and we have threads on it here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Guess what JeanneAnne, if everything was free, there would be no SL. Who the hell would pay 300 a month just for you to mess around in? The only reason SL is here today is because everyday people found what was here valuable enough to pay some1 for something. The only reason you can walk around and do anything for free here is because some1 else paid for you to have that privilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 The nail and hammer example is perfect. That's what I'm saying on the 25L item. Charging over 50L for that is not in range for the product. What Ralph needs to do is to.... rather than get frustrated with trying to sell one 500L golf club in a sea of several hundred 20L golf clubs with duped reviews..... package an assortment of golf clubs together, and let that price for a larger assortment drive it up toward page one over the 20L items. (yes, based on price - but not in the way he is always complaining about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 RE: freeloaders: I'm OK with the freeloaders because I was one myself for so long. Anyone who hangs around long enough will begin to assign at least some kind of monetary value to things they want and can't have without buying. I don't buy much, still, but the stuff I make gets resold as part of somebody's more elaborate product, etc. Noobs need a chance to keep testing the waters until they decide to stop being noobs. That's not a linear function. It can take many forms. RE: ralph's formula Maybe ralph's formula is that if something takes him an hour to build, he's entitled to sell it the first time for an hour's pay at US minimum wage. RE: keywords and reviews Maybe if ralph would tell us what he's selling we could give him some better keywords and conduct a massive gang-review of his products in exchange for a full refund. THEN would he care what else is floating around on the same page with his items? I'm finally checking to see how well some of my keywords work. It looks like I'm doing OK with "kludge". Now if only I could get people to seach for that word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Medhue Simoni wrote: Guess what JeanneAnne, if everything was free, there would be no SL. Who the hell would pay 300 a month just for you to mess around in? The only reason SL is here today is because everyday people found what was here valuable enough to pay some1 for something. The only reason you can walk around and do anything for free here is because some1 else paid for you to have that privilege. Why complain to me about it Medhue? Why not complain to LL about how people like me are having so much fun in SL while others spend real money on it? Why not tell LL to make everything cost so that thousands of people like me just abandon SL and never look back? All of you willing to spend real money for pretty pixels can admire your fancy outfits in your gorgeous sims all by your lonesome for all I care. Apparently LL has made a business decision to tolerate people like me so that SL doesn't become virtually depopulated LoL. The best things in life are free. Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Is this another ralph alt, intentionally taking the opposite position or what? There's plenty of money to be made in SL, even with all the freebies and freeloaders. Most of the obstacles to making it are created by the Lindens, themselves. So why shouldn't we focus on that instead of the freebies and freeloaders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Josh Susanto wrote: RE: freeloaders: I'm OK with the freeloaders because I was one myself for so long. Anyone who hangs around long enough will begin to assign at least some kind of monetary value to things they want and can't have without buying. I don't buy much, still, but the stuff I make gets resold as part of somebody's more elaborate product, etc. Noobs need a chance to keep testing the waters until they decide to stop being noobs. That's not a linear function. It can take many forms. Here's a prime example of the classism that, to my mind, is the single worst aspect of SL: The broke & homeless "freeloading" newbie vs. the propertied oldie elitist. Let's all make fun of the clueless "noob" wearing a box on her head while we pride ourselves on how seriously we take our virtual affluence and expertise at making things that aren't even real. How about we step back & consider who is making fun of whom here? What if the newbie who hasn't spent a cent on SL is the one having a good laugh at those spending real money on unreal stuff? Of course, it's LL & their investors who are having the last laugh at us all. Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Where did I say it was wrong for people like yourself to be here? I never said that at all. Whoever even mentioned the word freeloader should be ashamed of themselves. I want as many free accounts in SL as there can be. I was just responding to you saying that you didn't care if everything was free. This implies that you don't care or understand why you can even be here for free. I have no problem at all with free accounts, I even have numerous money trees and money chests that give away free lindens to people that need the money. I guarantee you all those people greatly appreciate all the free lindens they get from me, and not a week goes by that 1 of those people getting those free lindens doesn't thank me, which they do not have to do. Why do I have money trees and money chests? Well, because just like you people that take from those things, I did the same thing when I first entered SL. I teleported from tree to tree to tree. Then, when I had enough lindens, I rented a store and started selling things to help support the awesome world we have here. Now, I give back in numerous ways to the community. Please, go be free, get as many freebies as your inventory can handle, but please remember that there are people that support this whole system so that you can run around and do whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Everyone is different in whether or not they will spend money, Jeanne. Everyone has a different goal, motive, joy....whatever. Spending 40 bucks a month on a house/land that you can toy around with, similar to building with Legos....is a pretty good value when you consider how much it costs to go to a movie. Movie only lasts for a few hours. The home/land lasts for a month - 24 hour access. I'm not too keen on reading a book on a flat computer screen. Will read a real book the old-fashioned way - but do enjoy playing Legos on the computer screen. It all varies so much, even with the same person. There are people here who make their living by supplying product for people who are willing to pay for it. For many years it was a legitimate source of income for quite a few....maybe less now (some stuff happened) For some, they can roleplay the classism thing (and that's allowed pretty much)..... But for most part, I would think that most understand that whatever trappings you surround yourself with here, do not really establish the classism thing.....it's just a matter of choice and how many Legos you want to play around with. Back a few years....I had friends with way more Legos to play with..... But we all lived in the same type row house, on the same street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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