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amarock Amat

Euro American Hertige Month October?

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I have a question for folks, I want to celbrate it and yet...when I do such around blacks or hespanics... I feel bad....Should I feeling proud about who I am ...I don't know like its wrong to say yay its good to be white. Is it how I've been raised or is just me being parinoid?  

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It's how you've been conditioned, I doubt you were raised that way.

Hispanic IS European - Spain (and Portugal) are to the SW of France!

--ing Black history month is as racist as any other selection of a particular group.

That also means a --ing Euro American Heritage Month would be racist, yes.

(Celebrate who you are, not who you were.  There is no need to lose the one in order to be the other.)

[ETA: @Immy below - you're probably right, it's the first time I've heard of such a thing.  And '<insert minority here> history month' was similarly invented to annoy the majority.  Which is more annoying?]

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I'd say it was invented to make the point that many blacks have been airbrushed from history or, if they were too hard to hide, their blackness has been hidden instead.

But even where it makes sense in the USA - all that segregation stuff in the 60s - why do we have it in the UK?

Integration should always be the aim, not further identification of separateness.  Unless, that is, your aim IS separateness, as is for the nation of islam.  In that case just piss-off out of my history.  You're either US or you're OTHER.  If you're part of us you can be whatever else you like, if you're other then you don't count except as food enemy a customer.

The point here is that acceptance has to be first, after which there is no need for a 'month'.  Black history is no different to White history.  European history is different to African history except where they overlap.  Asian history is different to South American history, except where they overlap.  Where histories overlap there is, only, history (with lots of points of view as to what actually happened and what it meant/means but still ONE history).  Anything important, such as Mali having the richest gold-mines in the world, funding most European wars for a couple of centuries, is History, it isn't Black history and it isn't European history.

having a 'month' emphasises differences and almost begs for you to be excluded from the rest of the year.

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Columbus Day = Italian American Heritage pride day

Oktoberfest = German American Heritage Pride 

St Patrick's Day = Irish American Heritage Pride Day

 

that said lets look at it all from another angle

 

Okltoberfest = lets get drunk on german beer

St Patrick's Day = lets get drunk on guinness 

Cinco De Mayo = lets get drunk on margaritas

and right htere is the heart of all these heritage festival holidays, the ability to come together with your fellow man, regardless of skin colour or creed or religious beliefs and get drunk off your ass together

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If you want to "celebrate" Euro-American history, just take a class in Early American History.  It's steeped in Euro-Americans. 

Get a picture of all the men who signed the Declaration of Independence.  Learn their names, and do in-depth research on each one. 

Here to get you started:  http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/

Not only will you be celebrating Euro-American history, but you may learn that those men risked and pledged their very lives, fortunes, and futures to create a new nation, The United Sates of America, and shuck off the bonds of Europe.  (or tried to as much as they could within their own time)   By signing that historic document, they literally put their necks on the line.

So, to honor them...how about just celebrating...being an American?   

 



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amarock Amat wrote:

So black history month was only created to make white folks mad?

Black history month exists because there's a certain "majority" who would rather see their history swept under the carpet.  (^_^)

 

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the problem with all these "X Y Month" declarations is that they are generally reactionary, much as Pete pointed out.

black history moth is a reaction to blacks being "swept under the rug" women's history month is a similar reaction, the OP's version is a counter reaction to overfocus on minority narratives... and on and on it goes..... they are all there to pay for slights against people who never actually experienced them to begin with (because they've long since been corrected, or in the few instances they haven't been doing THAT should be the focus). and you can't get rid of them, because to do so just gets interpreted as a brand new slight even though the original point is long since lost.

I never celebrate any of them, not even the ones that apply, because like Pete says, it only serves to separate instead of unify. you want to celebrate something, celebrate "history month" every month of the year... and include everybody that contributed anything to the ease of your life today. That's something I could get behind.

(as for holidays, I celebrate ALL of those.... any excuse for a party)

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Gosh. Not sure that I’d embrace the “Europe = white” formula at all. Many southern Europeans (Spanish, Italians, etc.,) have a good old (and when I say “old” I mean hundreds or even thousands years old) dose of Arab and African blood in their veins. And nowadays, many French, British, German, Dutch etc. are even more different shades, thanks to more modern immigration. That would mean, if we had a national history day in the UK, and in the midst of it somebody cheered, “Yeah! It’s great to be British! Great to be white!”, he’d probably get some really nasty looks from Britons of all shades, including the very, very pale ones.

Now, I’m not saying I’m ashamed to be “white”  (assuming that I am indeed 100% white), but proud of being white? Nah. However, I would be proud of being British if a white pride celebration took place in the streets of London and was fiercely challenged by my fellow citizens.

I don’t mean to be cheeky but  - how can you celebrate being something you don’t have much knowledge or understanding of? (ETA I'm referring to the European bit, not the white thingy, with my question)

ETA # 2

Sorry bout this. I’m back. Was pondering (whilst drying my hair. I’ll soon be off. Promise) and I just felt the urge to point this out.

The differences between European countries and cultures is ENORMOUS. Trying to find cultural similarities between a Swede and a Greek, is a muuuuuch bigger task than finding cultural similarities between a southern Spaniard (European) and a Moroccan (North African). So, what I was wondering was...who the heck gets celebrated in your “Euro” American Day? Because Europe is composed of about 50 completely distinct nations and even more languages. How do you celebrate something so vague, vast and varied – since there is no single easy-to-define European identity. And why would you want to anyway? So what if your great-great-great-great-great-granny was from Auchterchoochty. You ever been there?? Nothing to celebrate. Believe me.

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General rhetorical question, not just to Carole.  This whole blurb is just about the problems of categorisation, don't take it seriously.

Where IS Europe anyway?

Australia and New Zealand are pretty obvious since they're islands.  Africa's ok once you decide whether to slice it off at the Red Sea Except, of course, that Egypt is undeniably an African country but extends East past the Red Sea/Suez canal so maybe Africa includes the Sinai peninsular?  So it's a bit fuzzy there.  "The Americas" are dead easy again - the bit between the Atlantic and Pacific.  North, central and South America aren't quite so simple though :-( Especially, of course, if you live in the USA and tend to forget that "North Armerica" includes Canada and Mexico.  We'll just leave the islands like Cuba and Jamaica as Caribbean for the moment and not even assign them to a continent.

But how or earth are you meant to draw a line between 'Europe' and 'Asia'?  And which countries are in which - historically Russia was 'Europe' because the capital was in the West but an awful lot of its history has been 'Asia' - Mongolian wars, Chinese wars, Japanese wars, etc. etc.  Oh, and of course the Bering Strait means Sarah Palin is an expert on international affairs (cheap shot, I know, but I'm just doing it for the lol, I've never met the woman).  Is Poland Western European or central?  It used to be a major imperial power so was considered 'Western European' by, erm, Western Europeans.

Very often geographical and even racial lines are drawn for economic and political (including religious) reasons because there is no clear dividing line.  It's also the reason most wars are border-wars of course, "alright so this river is our border but who owns the middle of the river?" (especially when it changes its course over the years).  All the countries around the North Pole are currently having this argument, for instance.

So it's all about "people like us" and, unfortunately for them, one of the few obvious dividing-lines between 'them' and 'us' in the world is the Mediterranean-/Sub-Saharan- African one.  Almost everywhere else humanity is clearly a ring species where my neighbour on either side is 'pretty much' like the neighbour on the other side and even more like me.  (Of course, even with the Saharan divide, Australian aborigines, etc. speciation has not occured or we'd have a whole new set of problems)

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amarock Amat wrote:

I have a question for folks, I want to celbrate it and yet...when I do such around blacks or hespanics... I feel bad....Should I feeling proud about who I am ...I don't know like its wrong to say yay its good to be white. Is it how I've been raised or is just me being parinoid?  

Firstly, I didn't know we had Euro American Heritage month. When I was in school they called that "History Class" (but admittedly, that's been a while).

I'm still curious as to what you were doing to celebrate that you thought might not be okay. I mean, were you actually saying, "YaY it's good to be white." while wearing maybe a party hat of some sort?

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Stella Carver wrote:

Firstly, I didn't know we had Euro American Heritage
month.

We don't.  *laughing*

 

@ Peter..here in the US we don't forget that Canada and Mexico are part of North America. 

The US company I work for includes all of Canada (both English and French speaking) in our North America territory.  It also includes Puerto Rico both English and Spanish speaking.  So, it comprises of the US, Canada, and Puerto Rico.  We also regularly help customers from the Bahamas, Virgin Islands, and Jamaica, etc.  (although technically they fall under the Caribbean territory)

On the other hand, although we don't forget about Mexico, but we do omit them as part of our North America territory.  Mexico falls into the Latin America and the Caribbean territory for my company. 

But, yeah...you guys over in the European area...what a mess...  : )

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Technically (or rather geographically), the correct term for the continent is Eurasia. Europe is merely a rather arbitrarily defined geographic region on this continent, similar to other Eurasian regions such as the Middle East (ETA: which also includes parts of Northern Africa, to complicate matters). 

Think of Europe as "Western Eurasia" and Asia as "Northeastern Eurasia". ETA: Some people even define Africa and Eurasia as a single supercontinent called Afro-Eurasia or Eurafrasia.

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No, you should not be feeling proud of who you are. Being born in a certain geographic region, with certain genes, or into a certain social class is not much of an accomplishment. People should only be proud of what they have accomplished themselves.

Nationalism and zealous patriotism are bad enough already. They constitute a form of political extremism, create an irrational feeling of superiority, and prevent criticical self-reflection and badly needed political reforms. But "racial" or ethnic pride is even worse. A skin color is nothing to be proud of. (The only exception is the pride of ethnic minorities that is usually a response to and defiance of the racism they're faced with on a daily basis).

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

...The only exception is the pride of ethnic minorities ...

Yeah, agree all your points.  That one should be "refusal to be ashamed" rather than "pride" though.  Discrimination of any sort seeks to make those discriminated against 'less', so the favoured can feel 'more'.  By simply refusing to be labelled as anything other than themselves the discriminated-against deny the false advantage to the favoured.

There is NO such thing as 'positive' discrimination.  There is only discrimination that suits the particular mood of the time.  Like any habit, if you do it for a good reason you'll do it later for a bad one.

There are great great men and little great men.  Great great men are great because they make those around them great.  Little great men are great because they make those around them little.*

[*obviously there were no women around when this quote was composed.  Or they weren't very great]

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

Technically (or rather geographically), the correct term for the continent is Eurasia. Europe is merely a rather arbitrarily defined geographic region on this continent, similar to other Eurasian regions such as the Middle East (ETA: which also includes parts of Northern Africa, to complicate matters). 

Think of Europe as "Western Eurasia" and Asia as "Northeastern Eurasia". ETA: Some people even define Africa and Eurasia as a single supercontinent called Afro-Eurasia or Eurafrasia.
If 

If I, as a Briton, live on a continent called Eurafrasia, then I reckon that continent across the Atlantic must be called "Northsouthamerica".  I think most of us Europeans have a fair idea of what Europe is, although the geographical Europe is a bit different from the European Union, a purely political / economic entity that doesn't include places like Switzerland or Norway.

 

 

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Conifer Dada wrote:

If I, as a Briton, live on a continent called Eurafrasia, then I reckon that continent across the Atlantic must be called "Northsouthamerica".  I think most of us Europeans have a fair idea of what Europe is, although the geographical Europe is a bit different from the European Union, a purely political / economic entity that doesn't include places like Switzerland or Norway.



A continent in the true sense of the word is a continuous land mass, including the continental shelf and the islands that rest on it. Insofar, there is no geographical continent called Europe or Asia, but there definitely is a geographical continent called America that includes both the North and the South half. Europe is merely a political "continent".

But I agree that Afro-Eurasia or Eurafrasia is pushing it :) I prefer the five continent model (Africa, America, Antarctica, Australia & Eurasia), or the six continent model that lists North and South America as separate continents (but not Europe and Asia).

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Well, if we are talking about countries like Eastasia, Eurasia and so on, then The United Kingdom is actually called "Airstrip One" if my knowledge of Orwell's 1984 is accurate.

 

What is this Euro-Heritage thing anyway, i thought the idea of things like independence day was to celebrate getting rid of all of us euro types.

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Chronometria wrote:

What is this Euro-Heritage thing anyway, i thought the idea of things like independence day was to celebrate getting rid of all of us euro types.

Only the Euro types that wear crowns and ermine capes :) As for this Euro heritage month, I think it's something like a heterosexual pride parade or the male rights movement. 

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:


Chronometria wrote:

What is this Euro-Heritage thing anyway, i thought the idea of things like independence day was to celebrate getting rid of all of us euro types.

Only the Euro types that wear crowns and ermine capes
:)
As for this Euro heritage month, I think it's something like a heterosexual pride parade or the male rights movement. 

I thought the whole British colony thing was all about getting rid of wierd, oppressive Europeans who insisted on pagan things like music, dancing, Christmas and even *outrage* not going to church sometimes.  Some Puritan fundamentalists (as they'd probably be labelled today) left England in 1620 for 'the Americas', others won the English civil war twenty years later (1640) with Oliver Cromwell becoming military dictator and banning Christmas amongst other things (the Taliban were a joy compared to the roundheads!).  In 1660 we (England) went back to the monarchy as soon as Cromwell was dead and were, literally, dancing again.  Without the religious nutters life was one big party right up until you died of plague or burnt-down London (great fire 1666).

The American colonies put up with this for another century or so until they left the band because of 'artistic differences' like having to pay for it all ("and by the way we drink coffee so your bloody tea can go in Boston harbour").  Left to their own, religious, devices they decided Puritanism just wasn't mad enough so invented baseball, American football, Mormonism and Seventh Day Adventists (Jonestown, Waco, etc.).  The religous movements were later exported with some success but the USA had to fight wars to get people to play baseball.  This is why Japan was occupied after WWII.  Undeterred America regularly wins the 'World Series' and keeps "football" American except for permitted foreign hobbyists.  Everyone else just plays football and, in England, is mildly annoyed that USA 'soccer moms' - English, 'football mums' - can usually beat the English national team (yes, I do mean the mothers who are watching.  A team of players is hardly necessary).

Just don't mention cricket.

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hey you gave us the puritans (whom we are still effectively trying to rout out their descendants), and outed the remaining fundamentalist nutters, you can hardly fault us for trying to do the same with mormons and branch davidians.

and by rights if you are going to bring up baseball and american football, then it's only fair to mention cricket and the fact that you let the scots export golf =P

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