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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:

Ishy, I think there are some RL things one can tell. For example, my 90 year old neighbor Trudy (she's my second mom)  thinks I should pad my bra more because I look like a young man. Doesn't that seem a safe revelation?

It does seem safe, unless one was trying to keep SL and RL entirely separate. If I understood the OP correctly, she is in one or more purely cyber-sexual SL relationships and doesn't want her cyber-lovers to become interested or emotionally invested in her RL person.

By telling them something like your example, she'd signal that she's a) most likely female in RL, b) not unwilling to reveal RL information, and c) probably just a tiny bit insecure about her figure, which causes the kind of insecure men who pose as dominant sex gods in SL to think that they might have a chance for more than just cybersex.

Once they get their hopes up, the nature of their superficial cyber-relationships could change completely and there is no going back to the simple no-strings-attached roleplay. At least I hope that these SL relationships are superficial, for the sake of her husband. Not that I want to be judgemental here.

That's an interesting take. I'm not unwilling to reveal some RL information, but how would anybody know if it's true? So my little story is no more proof of my gender than my avatar is. I also find it interesting you see my story as showing an insecurity in my figure. It seems to me that if I was insecure, I'd be wearing the padding Trudy thinks I need. As a wannabe Domme, I think you'd find my insecurities lie elsewhere and are nothing I'm particularly concerned about.

I've revealed a lot about my RL life here over the years. None of it specific enough to compromise my anonymity, but enough to give people a sense for who I am. You've revealed quite a bit of RL background yourself. I think it's natural and fine to let RL slip into the mix. We can take each other at face value and with a grain of salt.

As for the superficiality of relationships here, it's often the case that the two parties don't see it quite the same way. That's why it's important to set expectations right up front.

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

That's an interesting take. I'm not unwilling to reveal some RL information, but how would anybody know if it's true? So my little story is no more proof of my gender than my avatar is. 

True. But people either take these revelations at face value and get their hopes up, or try and pressure others into voice or cam sessions in an attempt to "verify" their gender. Making it very clear that RL is no-go zone and being secretive about it can prevent both. 

 


I also find it interesting you see my story as showing an insecurity in my figure. It seems to me that if I was insecure, I'd be wearing the padding Trudy thinks I need. As a wannabe Domme, I think you'd find my insecurities lie elsewhere and are nothing I'm particularly concerned about.

I don't see it that way, I'm just saying that's what someone might read into it. And you're right that I'm one of those insecure RL males who try their hand at D/s play in SL, or at least that's what I used to do before I stopped socializing and roleplaying in SL. I never exclude myself when I make derogatory remarks about the SL population.

 


As for the superficiality of relationships here, it's often the case that the two parties don't see it quite the same way. That's why it's important to set expectations right up front.

Exactly. And secrecy about RL matters is a great way to do that, imho. Although in my case, being open about my RL gender and -situation does exactly the same trick :) If one owns nothing that people would want to steal, there is no sense in locking the door. 

 

 

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Autumn Eleventhauer wrote:

Krystal,

I'm hearing what they are saying, but I'd really like to hear from a sub who plays in the BDSM community. I realize the responders are being hyper critical, but I did put my issue out there in a public forum. My real trouble stems from my wanting the person I am communicating with to understand I am a real person, really a woman (because so many men are paranoid that they are interacting with a man pretending to be a woman that many of them won't continue until they can verify who they are dealing with, and I understand that and respect this.... The problem is, closing that door after it's been opened.)

In the future my profile is going to clearly state that I am not into voice (it hurts my ears after 5 minutes) or photos or blending my RL into SL, -but right now, I'm not even looking. Just being free of  my recent hassle feels so good, I am reluctant to even try to find a BDSM community in SL.

 But wherever I now travel in SL, I'm going to clearly state that I'm in SL to escape RL, not to bring anyone from SL into my RL, at all- not even as friends.  When I am inworld next, I will clearly state this in my 1st life tab of profile.

Thank you for your response,    

Autumn

Actually, no one was being hypercritical. Merely logical.

Also, scammers and manipulators will always put the onus on you to prove yourself. Then you are too busy proving (in your case) "I'm a woman" or "you can trust me" to notice they are not what or who they should be, or doing what they promised. They do this in real life, too. The best con artists express doubt, hesitation, and make you prove yourself

You need much firmer and clearer boundaries. And, if you want to hear something to make you feel better: don't worry, these types seek out newcomers for this very reason. They haven't learned yet. By now they have moved on to the next one whose eagerness and need outweigh their self protection.

 

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:

That's an interesting take. I'm not unwilling to reveal some RL information, but how would anybody know if it's true? So my little story is no more proof of my gender than my avatar is. 

True. But people either take these revelations at face value and get their hopes up, or try and pressure others into voice or cam sessions in an attempt to "verify" their gender. Making it very clear that RL is no-go zone and being secretive about it can prevent both. 

 

I also find it interesting you see my story as showing an insecurity in my figure. It seems to me that if I was insecure, I'd be wearing the padding Trudy thinks I need. As a wannabe Domme, I think you'd find my insecurities lie elsewhere and are nothing I'm particularly concerned about.

I don't see it that way, I'm just saying that's what someone might read into it. And you're right that I'm one of those insecure RL males who try their hand at D/s play in SL, or at least that's what I used to do before I stopped socializing and roleplaying in SL. I never exclude myself when I make derogatory remarks about the SL population.

 

As for the superficiality of relationships here, it's often the case that the two parties don't see it quite the same way. That's why it's important to set expectations right up front.

Exactly. And secrecy about RL matters is a great way to do that, imho. Although in my case, being open about my RL gender and -situation does exactly the same trick
:)
If one owns nothing that people would want to steal, there is no sense in locking the door. 

 

 

What I'm trying to get at is that there is a lot of RL we can share, both as a way of managing expectations and as a way of being ourselves. If I'm in a terrible mood because of something that's happened in RL, it might be helpful to explain that. Doing so needn't compromise my stance about mixing SL and RL.

What you've communicated about your RL situation might have the same effect as what I've communicated about mine. It helps set expectations and explains your world view. Maybe that turns away droves, but might it also resonate with a few people with whom you can have interesting conversations? It could happen!

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Personally, I am not afraid of someone figuring out who I am in RL, mainly because I don't believe that I have pissed any one off bad enough to need to worry.  But I sure don't just go handing out that information.  But much of who I am and what I do is still reflected in SL, for instance, I am a big Live Music Lover. 

What I do with my friends is that I allow to a certain extent for them to determine the boundaries within the framework of how comfortable I am with each individual.  I am open to voice, even open to pictures, etc, but I still stay very, very careful with it.  I did have to set one rule for myself, 'don't drink and voice.'  It is easier to un-type something I don't want someone to know than to un-say it.

The problem still with the majority of the so called BDSM community is that it is still mainly composed of "wannabe's."  As someone pointed out early, it is men who wannabe laid in RL.  And they don't care what damage they do in their mostly futile attempts to get there.  It's sad but true.  At the worst, some of them are nothing more or less than 'internet womanizers.'

Regarding your individual situation, one of the problems that I see, and it's just based a perception that I have from your comments, is that you want to experience the feel, the emotions, everything involved with BDSM in your RL while keeping it to strictly in SL.  And that is very difficult to do (and some may argue that it is actually impossible for other reasons, mainly the idea that they think SL is just a game) without both parties opening up some RL to each other, e.g., "are you masturbating right now," and similar questions,  As best as I can see, it is a necessary thing in order for the RP to live for both parties involved.

As far as a solution goes, I think others have already stated it.  Decide what is acceptable for yourself and stick to it.  Stick to the people who accept your position that your Avatar represents who you are and don't need further proof.  But do understand this, that the people who are not just "wannabe's," for whom it is a "real thing (as real as it can get in SL)," for those people the intimacy is going to require a certain level of RL openness.  It is as far as I can see, the way that it works.

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Autumn Eleventhauer wrote:

Krystal,

I'm hearing what they are saying, but I'd really like to hear from a sub who plays in the BDSM community. I realize the responders are being hyper critical, but I did put my issue out there in a public forum. My real trouble stems from my wanting the person I am communicating with to understand I am a real person, really a woman (because so many men are paranoid that they are interacting with a man pretending to be a woman that many of them won't continue until they can verify who they are dealing with, and I understand that and respect this.... The problem is, closing that door after it's been opened.)

In the future my profile is going to clearly state that I am not into voice (it hurts my ears after 5 minutes) or photos or blending my RL into SL, -but right now, I'm not even looking. Just being free of  my recent hassle feels so good, I am reluctant to even try to find a BDSM community in SL.

 But wherever I now travel in SL, I'm going to clearly state that I'm in SL to escape RL, not to bring anyone from SL into my RL, at all- not even as friends.  When I am inworld next, I will clearly state this in my 1st life tab of profile.

Thank you for your response,    

Autumn

There IS no closing that door after it's been opened. That is what everyone is trying to tell you.

You seem to be misunderstanding that these guys are in fact pervs, who never had any interest in SL fantasy in the first place. SL is a convenient excuse through which they can get their rocks off on a woman with no obligation. If it was about SL fantasy there would be no "prove you're a real woman" phase at the beginning. What would it matter if it was about dominating your avie with theirs?

You will continue to have these problems if you do not hold your ground at the outset. Sorry. :matte-motes-bored:

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" What I'm trying to get at is that there is a lot of RL we can share, both as a way of managing expectations and as a way of being ourselves.  "

I think some people's boundaries are more permeable than other people's. Especially a person who is new to any community - real, virtual, social or geographical.

Also, if you have even one alt, another reason to keep shtum on anything 'real' is it will become very obvious to anyone paying attention. Two people who hang out at the same place, and both like burgers with relish on top? And voted for so and so? And live in a small town? And have an elderly neighbor next door who told them to wear a padded bra? You see where I'm going with this. I think it is better to be socially safe as well, as physically safe.

People are in much more danger, here at least, of being socially used up and spat out than they are of anyone showing up at their RL work or residence. People forget about emotional safety online all the time, though.

See my thread called "Catfish" and check out that film, sometime, although it's not a perfect fit for this situation. It's a good cautionary tale.

As for guys treating her like she's a free webcam/phone sex girl, she has to learn to watch out for that. It sounds like she has. 

If you have one av and just want to chit chat with people that's a different scenario, although I've seen people get in over their head in SL that way as well.

It all comes down to respecting someone else's boundaries. Since so many people have a difficult time doing that, it's best to set strong ones to begin with.   JMO

And since you mentioned RL pain here is a big hug and I hope you feel better.

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As for the superficiality of relationships here, it's often the case that the two parties don't see it quite the same way. That's why it's important to set expectations right up front.

This comment about superficiality of relationships brings up an interesting point, and maybe helps me see what my own relationship problem in sl has been. To me, sl relationships are superficial yet it's part of my nature or of my roleplay to pretend that they are more serious. I get more out of the relationship if I can pretend that love is actually involved, and I like to give my partners that "girlfriend experience" they seem to like. Or maybe I'm just fooling myself, maybe guys don't like romantic stuff at all and just put up with it for the sake of scoring a mutual masturbation session. I dunno. But maybe the reason guys tend to get jealous & possessive & take seriously what for me is just fun, is because I send the wrong message. Maybe it's my fault for leading them on. I always only try to be nice and to please my partner. It's baffled me why guys end up mad at me when all I've done has been be nice. Maybe I've been too nice and they get the wrong idea. I suppose I should be more upfront with partners about all this stuff but somehow I can't seem to bring myself to be. Stating limits & expectations upfront seems too legalistic & takes all the fun & spontaneity & romance out of it, seems to me like, anyway. Who would've thought that something thats supposed to be fun and "just a game" (sl) can involve such heavy medicine, emotionally speaking?

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The only thing I have to say here is that your partner/bf/gf doesn't know you are 'pretending' your affections unless you say that you are.

Lots of people in sl do not roleplay their relationships in such a way and many are serious about them & their feelings are real.  The result in that situation is that someone, in this instance not you, will get hurt.

 

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Autumn Eleventhauer wrote:

It does not feel like submission, it sounds like he's getting off on my real life.


 

That's because that's what these people do, and they *are* getting off on your real life. These are usually the type of guys that feed off every little RL description you give them, it's like porn to them. They have no interest in an avatar, or an SL-only interaction, they want to fantasize about the RL typist and what's going on there. Using SL and playing at being *this* or *that* in SL is just a means to get AT those juicy RL details they crave. You found a RLer, not that difficult these days as they are everywhere. My only advice is to stand your ground to these types... this is *your* SL, your fantasy or getaway, and the more RL you give them the more they'll feel they're entitled to with the *next* person they meet. Don't agree to any requests for voice verification either, because when you do that you're basically telling them that it's OK that they don't want to put the slightest effort into getting to know someone and judge the gender for themselves... it's them being LAZY and saying you aren't worth the effort when they ask for that. If you get nothing but pressure and excuses from them on it then you can be certain it's not just about verification, and there's a RLer at their keyboard. You'll never have to deal with all those requests for pics and RL descriptions ever again if you don't give in and open that door in the first place. Having a SL that's free of that BS is well worth the few that you have to say "nope, sorry" to.

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I'm one of what I know are many who feel that Voice was not a great idea for many reason and since they added it, SL has become less a game and more just another social network.

I completely concur with what you are saying and feel that the lost art of the written word is quickly diminishing across all platforms.

I like having a fantasy character and only through the written word does it stay a fantasy.  Once you cross to voice, it's a very different feel and one that I don't enjoy.  

However, I do understand the physical limits imposed by having to type.  That's why there is Voice to Text software (though not in SL as far as I know).  

But there are dominate males who feel the same as you do and I know several.  If they cannot understand how you feel and moreover, lack the creativity and skill to type...move on.  Remember one very important thing about SL..It's just a game and moreover it's YOUR game.

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“The problem is, few of the men I have met are ok with butting the EFF out of my RL. I understand wanting to verify that I am really a woman and not just a man pretending to be a woman. I'm ok with that...”

Maybe I’m being thick, but if you’re okay with them feeling they have the right to check out your RL gender (through phone or whatever), then maybe it’s not overly surprising they feel they have certain rights over your RL sphere. If it has to be “only SL”, why not just refuse to let them check you out? Basically what I’m saying is – why on their terms in the first place? Why oblige them at all with gender checks?

 

“It does not feel like submission, it sounds like he's getting off on my real life.”

At the risk of sounding really daft – why on earth would a bloke get involved in a sex-based role-play online, if not to get his RL jollies by whatever means available? And if the cartoon doesn’t hack it…

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JeanneAnne wrote:

Stating limits & expectations upfront seems too legalistic & takes all the fun & spontaneity & romance out of it, seems to me like, anyway. Who would've thought that something thats supposed to be fun and "just a game" (sl) can involve such heavy medicine, emotionally speaking?


 

Stating limits and expectations like you have to in SL isn't really in anyones book of favourite things to do.. it's something you *must* do in order to avoid false expectations and getting hurt, or hurting someone else. SL is *not* just a game, and assuming it was that kind of free-for-all atmosphere is why you run into these things. Many here have lots of themselves invested in their social relationships, and to trod over all that because "it's just a game" is reckless and inconsiderate. If you're roleplaying some kind of "expected reaction" and it's not really yours, you have a duty to divulge that info *before* what you say gets taken to heart, not after... or only do these things in a dedicated roleplay area where bluffing is the norm.

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JeanneAnne wrote:

 Maybe it's my fault for leading them on. I always only try to be nice and to please my partner. It's baffled me why guys end up mad at me when all I've done has been be nice. Maybe I've been
too
nice and they get the wrong idea. (snip) Stating limits & expectations upfront seems too legalistic 


You're over thinking.

They are playing at being angry to get you to do what they want.

All you need to do about limits is type them in your profile one time and then say "read my profile." (Not that most will, but that weeds out a lot of people you don't want to associate with anyway. I have in my profile my own limits for SL, and it always amazes me how many ignore them.  It does prove a very handy barometer of who's worth talking to at all.)

In your case - if you are going to get that deep into each other's minds, and he can't be bothered to spend two minutes reading your profile, is that someone you really want to hand the keys to?

Doesn't your community also say you should put it all in a note card? If you didn't know this, these "Doms" should have told you, first thing. Actually insisted upon it. 

You cannot come into a new community wide open and expect nothing bad to happen. The world just does not run that way.

 

 

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Thank you. I'm listening to everyone, and I appreciate the comments.  Dana, you're right about the lazy part, your letter teaches me a lot. I'm thankful to all of you for being frank and candid.  ......As for real life, the funny thing is, I would rather NOT see any of their pictures because it has always destroyed the mental imagery that SL creates. And I really don't want to know anything about their lives. I don't care what they ate for dinner, or how drunk they got last weekend, or  what cars they drive.... if I wanted to know things like that, I'd be on facebook like all my real life friends are, constantly broadcasting their daily activities and grievances to the world.  .........If and when I decide to get involved again, {after a loooong break} I'll go and create an alt and I'll stand firm about the no-RL-at-all-ever rule.  .......What I was hoping for in writing was to talk to other subs and see if any of them had similar issues, because I was under the impression that some sort of Identification was pretty much a requirement if one wanted to find a serious RP partner.    :S   Thanks, Auntumn

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Autumn Eleventhauer wrote:

... I was under the impression that some sort of Identification was pretty much a requirement if one wanted to find a serious RP partner.

Luckily, that is not the case. Serious roleplayers don't care about RL identities. It might help to put something like "I keep RL and RL separate, please don't send me any photos or expect me to reveal any details about my RL" in the First Life tab of your profile. That tends to keep the augmentationalists away and tells immersionists that you are a kindred spirit.

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Autumn Eleventhauer wrote:

Thank you. I'm listening to everyone, and I appreciate the comments.  Dana, you're right about the lazy part, your letter teaches me a lot. I'm thankful to all of you for being frank and candid.  ......As for real life, the funny thing is, I would rather NOT see any of their pictures because it has always destroyed the mental imagery that SL creates. And I really don't want to know anything about their lives. I don't care what they ate for dinner, or how drunk they got last weekend, or  what cars they drive.... if I wanted to know things like that, I'd be on facebook like all my real life friends are, constantly broadcasting their daily activities and grievances to the world.  .........If and when I decide to get involved again, {after a loooong break} I'll go and create an alt and I'll stand firm about the no-RL-at-all-ever rule.  .......What I was hoping for in writing was to talk to other subs and see if any of them had similar issues, because I was under the impression that some sort of Identification was pretty much a requirement if one wanted to find a serious RP partner.   
:S
   Thanks, Auntumn

It shouldn't be, but unfortunately many people (sub, Dom/me and vanilla) like to have that kind of information before they get intimate. I've been pressured all kinds of ways by Dominants for RL details. Maybe I encourage it by having my age & a RL photo in my profile, but even when I didn't, some would push for it.

Like all other BDSM limits, one should have a position on RL information that you stick to. It sounds like you've now discovered that for yourself, and like any lesson learned by experience, you'll remember it all the better. Be encouraged that not every Dominant insists on any RL info; some whom I've met are equally protective of their real lives. Like any relationship, the trick is to find people with matching expectations. 

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Autumn Eleventhauer wrote:

Thank you. I'm listening to everyone, and I appreciate the comments.  Dana, you're right about the lazy part, your letter teaches me a lot. I'm thankful to all of you for being frank and candid.  ......As for real life, the funny thing is, I would rather NOT see any of their pictures because it has always destroyed the mental imagery that SL creates. And I really don't want to know anything about their lives. I don't care what they ate for dinner, or how drunk they got last weekend, or  what cars they drive.... if I wanted to know things like that, I'd be on facebook like all my real life friends are, constantly broadcasting their daily activities and grievances to the world.  .........If and when I decide to get involved again, {after a loooong break} I'll go and create an alt and I'll stand firm about the no-RL-at-all-ever rule.  .......What I was hoping for in writing was to talk to other subs and see if any of them had similar issues, because I was under the impression that some sort of Identification was pretty much a requirement if one wanted to find a serious RP partner.   
:S
   Thanks, Auntumn

A serious RP partner will not care about your RL gender.  Your ability to roleplay and interact in-game will be all that matters.  That is, if it's only roleplay they seek.

However, most who take on the dominant role in SL are there either to explore their dominant side (just as you are exploring your submissive side), or to get all the sex they can.  Logic dictates that there are not a bunch of RL lifestyle doms hanging around SL.  The common variety of D/s in SL is something most have learned from others in SL.  It has little or no basis in in real world BDSM or D/s.  This is why little dom wannabes believe they can begin ordering sub wannabes around without any discussion of boundaries or limits.

Submitting does not mean you are required to do whatever any and all self proclaimed dominants order you to do.  Submitting is a choice you make.  If you feel compelled to submit to an individual, it doesn't make you everyone's doormat.  Bullying and threatening are not the same as dominating. 

As you explore your submissive side in SL, keep in mind that you are in control until you give that control to someone else.  If someone says to you, "If you were a real sub you would ...."  or "You're not a real sub because .....", run away!  This is a tool used to manipulate you.  State your boundaries.  Don't allow them to be challenged unless and until you meet someone you trust enough to do so.  Have fun exploring.

 

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“A serious RP partner will not care about your RL gender.  Your ability to roleplay and interact in-game will be all that matters.  That is, if it's only roleplay they seek.”

I remain a tad perplexed by the concept of wanting to participate in what is, to a large degree, sexual role-play without having expectations of being… erm… “stimulated” or by being surprised/shocked that one’s play-mate takes part in the RP for anything other than purely platonic motives. If it was platonic role-play they sought, would not fairies and elves in Brambleywood be more their thing? Oh, wait! Unless when you talk about role-playing you mean they only role-play being sexually interested/ involved/ stimulated, but aren’t really? That would make sense!

 

“However, most who take on the dominant role in SL are there either to explore their dominant side (just as you are exploring your submissive side), or to get all the sex they can.  Logic dictates that there are not a bunch of RL lifestyle doms hanging around SL.”

So true. And why not? SL isn’t a digital extension of some RL “expert” BDSM thingy, after all. It’s a fantasy game, right? He explores, she explores, Dommey explores, Subby explores. Seems fair. 

 

“The common variety of D/s in SL is something most have learned from others in SL.  It has little or no basis in in real world BDSM or D/s.  This is why little dom wannabes believe they can begin ordering sub wannabes around without any discussion of boundaries or limits.”

Wait. “Wannabes”?? What happened to role-playing? Now you have to have some sort of diploma to be considered “SL-real”? Whatever happened to exploring and role-playing dominant and submissive sides??? Isn’t the OP a self-confessed “wannabe”? Isn’t that what RP is all about? (“role-play” – as in playing at it?)

 

“Submitting does not mean you are required to do whatever any and all self proclaimed dominants order you to do.” 

But, isn’t everyone a self-proclaimed something-or-other in SL, anyway? Like me – I’m a self-proclaimed old dame. Doesn’t make it true.

 

 “Submitting is a choice you make.  If you feel compelled to submit to an individual, it doesn't make you everyone's doormat.  Bullying and threatening are not the same as dominating.” 

Whoa! Submitting??? But she said she’s role-playing. She said she’s blissfully married in RL. Why on earth do you think she really wants to “submit? I thought that was what her OP was about. Basically, she’s a wannabe submissive – in it for the role-play kicks. At least, that’s what I understood.

 

“As you explore your submissive side in SL, keep in mind that you are in control until you give that control to someone else…”

I must be have misunderstood the OP. I got the distinct impression she’s happily married in RL and the hubby would have strong objections if she really submitted to anyone but him. Or maybe not even him...

 

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Dana Hickman wrote:


JeanneAnne wrote:

Stating limits & expectations upfront seems too legalistic & takes all the fun & spontaneity & romance out of it, seems to me like, anyway. Who would've thought that something thats supposed to be fun and "just a game" (sl) can involve such heavy medicine, emotionally speaking?


 

Stating limits and expectations like you have to in SL isn't really in anyones book of favourite things to do.. it's something you *must* do in order to avoid false expectations and getting hurt, or hurting someone else. SL is *not* just a game, and assuming it was that kind of free-for-all atmosphere is why you run into these things. Many here have lots of themselves invested in their social relationships, and to trod over all that because "it's just a game" is reckless and inconsiderate. If you're roleplaying some kind of "expected reaction" and it's not really yours, you have a duty to divulge that info *before* what you say gets taken to heart, not after... or only do these things in a dedicated roleplay area where bluffing is the norm.

But Dana, how is this combined with your last post on the subject not a mixed message?

On the one hand, you classify RLers as people who blow right by the fantasy nature of SL with overblown sense of entitlement and dubious or even outright bogus regard for the role the avies play in these interactions. Which I agree with wholeheartedly as I stated identically in my own post. But then you imply essentially that approaching SL exactly as its charter says it is to be approached is a mistake and not deferring to the expectations of people who attempt to redefine that charter is reckless and inconsiderate.

That heavily investing in SL is inseparable from tying one's emotional stability to it is a myth, if not an outright falsehood. Anyone who cultivates relationships on any extended level in a virtual world, taking real time to do so, and spending an inordinate amount of time customizing and personalizing a virtual representation of not only themselves but their surroundings, has invested heavily. That is not the same thing as having unrealistic expectations of the platform and the nature of the relationships it encourages or supports.

There is literally no difference between this and your average guy who dives with sharks with no cages and then complains about getting bitten. There are certain realities about undertakings on the internet. Either face them and accept them, or stay off it. The same misconceptions and ridiculous assumptions are behind all these people coming up clinically depressed because they actually thought their Farcebook friends were equivalent to their real friends and when they come up woefully short, it becomes a reason for "trust issues" across the board and everyone is "deceiving them and being fake". Sorry. Caveat emptor lives, and in eras devoid of today's sense of entitlement and lack of accountability this is not even a debatable concept.

The OP is not responsible for the refusal of other residents to accept the limitations of the platform they are using. Not every shark bites, but any shark can. If you're not prepared for that then stay out of the water. This entire platform is a dedicated roleplay area and the sooner people come to grips with that the sooner they're out of "harms way".

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Carole Franizzi wrote:

“A serious RP partner will not care about your RL gender.  Your ability to roleplay and interact in-game will be all that matters.  That is, if it's only roleplay they seek.”

I remain a tad perplexed by the concept of wanting to participate in what is, to a large degree,
sexual
role-play without having expectations of being… erm… “stimulated” or by being surprised/shocked that one’s play-mate takes part in the RP for anything other than purely platonic motives. If it was platonic role-play they sought, would not fairies and elves in Brambleywood be more their thing? Oh, wait! Unless when you talk about role-playing you mean they only
role-play
being sexually interested/ involved/ stimulated, but aren’t really? That would make sense!

 

“However, most who take on the dominant role in SL are there either to explore their dominant side (just as you are exploring your submissive side), or to get all the sex they can.  Logic dictates that there are not a bunch of RL lifestyle doms hanging around SL.”

So true. And why not? SL isn’t a digital extension of some RL “expert” BDSM thingy, after all. It’s a fantasy game, right? He explores, she explores, Dommey explores, Subby explores. Seems fair.
 

 

“The common variety of D/s in SL is something most have learned from others in SL.  It has little or no basis in in real world BDSM or D/s.  This is why little dom wannabes believe they can begin ordering sub wannabes around without any discussion of boundaries or limits.”

Wait. “Wannabes”?? What happened to role-playing? Now you have to have some sort of diploma to be considered “SL-real”? Whatever happened to
exploring
and
role-playing
dominant and submissive sides??? Isn’t the OP a self-confessed “wannabe”? Isn’t that what RP is all about? (“role-
play” –
as in
playing
at it?)

 

“Submitting does not mean you are required to do whatever any and all self proclaimed dominants order you to do.” 

But, isn’t everyone a self-proclaimed something-or-other in SL, anyway? Like me – I’m a self-proclaimed old dame. Doesn’t make it true.

 

 
“Submitting is a choice you make.  If you feel compelled to submit to an individual, it doesn't make you everyone's doormat.  Bullying and threatening are not the same as dominating.” 

Whoa!
Submitting???
But she said she’s role-playing. She said she’s blissfully married in RL. Why on earth do you think she
really
wants to “submit? I thought that was what her OP was about. Basically, she’s a wannabe submissive – in it for the role-play kicks. At least, that’s what I understood.

 

“As you explore your submissive side in SL, keep in mind that you are in control until you give that control to someone else…”

I must be have misunderstood the OP. I got the distinct impression she’s happily married in RL and the hubby would have strong objections if she
really
submitted to anyone but him. Or maybe not even him...

 

I'm sorry if I confused you, Carole.  My reply was to the original poster who mentioned that she was hoping to hear from other subs.  When I referred to serious roleplayers, I meant  immersive roleplayers. In immersive roleplay, no one cares who is being stimulated in real life.  Real life gender isn't an issue.

There is a huge difference between someone who roleplays immersively and someone who claims to be something in real life, bringing a level of expertise into the game.  In my experience, I have encountered a disproportionate number of male doms in SL who claim to have years of real life BDSM experience.  Someone exploring their submissive side might be drawn to this sort.  Too often, these types use their claim of real life experience as a means to manipulate others.  Unfortunately, this can lead to the sub doing something he/she might not do under other circumstances (such as giving out real life info).

I don't think I ever said that the OP wanted to really submit.  She did say she wanted to explore her submissive side.  I get that she is happily married.  I get that she wants to roleplay submision.  (I suppose I could have inserted the word 'roleplay' before the word 'submit' each time I typed it.)  I'm not questioning her intentions.  Surely you get that not everyone she encounters will have the same intentions?  Not every SL dom thinks of himself as a roleplayer.

 

 

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SL is full of real people. If you don't want real life involments in your sexual fantasies, play them in a computer game like sims where you are not interacting with real people. Every avatar in SL is played by a real person. There no way to keep RL out of SL. That's obvious isn't it? Everything an avatar does and says, true or not, is a real person with real feelings and emotions.

Even if you managed to find somebody who wanted to know zero about real life, you are still interacting with a real person and affecting them in profound ways. In fact, if your real life husband saw your chat logs and listened in on your phone calls and read your texts they would be affected as well I'm sure.

The relationships in SL are real whether the details about the person are known or not or if they are all lies. If they wern't, why would anybody find pleasure and stimuation from them? If you disclose zero about real life, I doubt anybody would want to talk to you long. But yea you can lie and make up a real life to keep somebody interested. But yea they will be mad when they find out you lied to them! Like I said, all SL relastionships involve real feelings and emotions.

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Kascha Matova wrote:

But Dana, how is this combined with your last post on the subject not a mixed message?


 

Because I was replying to 2 different people who had different concerns?

The first was about RLers whose main goal is a RL identity to RL identity connection, and everything else in between is just a tool, a means to get to that.

The second was about how you will always find hurt, trouble, or drama if you roleplay emotional stuff with people who are unaware you're just roleplaying it.

Absolutely no mixed message there.

Nobody is rewriting anything. The key to most things social in SL is to master the assumed expectations that you yourself, and others bring with them when the login button is pressed. Regardless of why someone is in SL, or how they personally choose to use the platform, it's nearly always a mismatch of expectations (personal or SL usage based) that causes issues like these being discussed.

I always tell people "AIR... Augmentationist, Immersionist, Roleplayer.. learn it", and I don't tell people that just to have something to say. Figuring out which one of those approaches a person is using at the moment greatly narrows down what their motivations, intentions, and expectations might be. One can't enjoy a chapter with someone if you're both reading from different books.

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I don't get why the guys involved in these relationships are called "pervs" and the females are not. What's the difference?  I like mature 20th century equality between the sexes and wonder why one would fantasize about abusive un-equal roles people were forced to live out in less enlightened times? Why is being a slave something you wish for or fantasize about?

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