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Let's talk about Mesh!


Strawberry Singh
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Mesh to me has been an amazing addition to my SL. I have done a few posts and pictures with mesh items on my blog already. Some of my favorites have been the gown from Rebel Hope and those incredibly sexy thigh-high boots from SLink.

There are some things about Mesh that I wish were different/better, such as the ability to modify it to fit our own shapes, rather than modifying our shapes to make it fit.  

I know some people were very apprehensive about the introduction of mesh and are still feeling somewhat alienated by it. What are your thoughts on Mesh? How do you feel about it? 

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Ok.. I'll bite.... It will be a cold day in hell before Gala loses her ass to fit into a mesh dress......

Now, that being said, let me explain.  I worked hard to make her an individual.  I do not use a store bought shape for my body and I do not want a clothing designer to tell me how my body should look.  I do not want to be in what I feel is a cookie cutter design of a dress.  I DID try on some mesh dresses and pants and while yes, they move well with the body, I had to make my shape smaller to fit into even the "big girl" size, which I thought was kind of funny, since I see MANY avatars way larger than mine.  I don't want to be a stepford wife! AND... I like my skirt to SWIRL... mesh does not swirl, although I did see a mesh dress at Son!a that she added prim skirt to, to get that effect, but of course, it won't move with you the way the mesh does.. and the mesh won't swirl....

Now.... I think there is a place for mesh in the clothing world... those boots you showcased are AMAZING!!!! and if I have to shave 4 or 5 muscle points off my legs to fit them, so be it (I would pay anyone who could tell I did that).  Shoes, handbags, glasses, jewelry, hair, scarves, belts... in general.. accessories... that is where I think mesh fits into the clothing world.

OK, my 2 cents worth.... any other takers?

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Starts singing "Let's talk about mesh baybee"...

On the plus side some elements of it are making me very happy; for example the Mesh collection that Janie Marlowe released had me squeeing to the point of having to go and lie down in a darkened room, I kid you not. 

BUT I'm a picky cow, and I'm also a curvy avatar. I have boobs and buttocks and no, I don't have legs that elevate themselves into oblivion, so fitting issues are going to annoy me to hell and back. 

Gripes aside it is early days. I'm excited by Mesh, I'm positive about what the future holds. Second Life fashion makes me happier than real life fashion because in real life I can't afford the luxury items that I'd give my right arm for; but I can wear and enjoy them in world. So the potential that mesh brings to the grid makes me drool in anticipation at what the myriad of wonderful designers that we have in world can accomplish with it..I wait with baited, slightly fishy breath:)

=^..^=

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As a designer, already having invested way too many hours getting my first mesh couture to market, I share the mixed feelings already well expressed here. My biggest problem with mesh is that you can't yet risk wearing it in public! Don't know when, if ever, a tipping point will come, such that you can count on nearly everyone you meet at a concert or on a dance floor will see that you are, in fact , wearing clothes! And you might think some great lingerie would help .... But no, that just defeats the purpose of making part of your lovely body invisible.

 

Another serious problem is the hemline. If the alpha layer comes close to the hemline, you get the weird effect of legs that seem to be amputated just beneath your skirt. If the alpa layer is too high, then your legs (or hips, or ass) poke through, cancelling what should be one of the major advantages of mesh: clothes that fit well and move gracefully with your limbs.

 

We may be able to find work arounds for these problems, but it's not going to be easy.

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I'm more interested in full mesh avatars. Those are fun. Clothes... not that interested so far. I'm one of those who doesn't want to loose her shape.:P Also for layering the mesh clothes don't work yet.  I can see myself wearing some tight pencil skirt or mesh hair. But as mesh is still a new thing, I'm sure designers will get better and better.:)

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I'll go ahead and bite and respond to this thread. Mesh to me sucks. Let me count the reasons why....

 

1. Alpha layers, most shoes now use alpha layers, I have to take off the alpha layers for mesh which means some weird shoe options unless I'm missing something. If phoenix allows multiple alpha's someone can share how, because I would love to know how.

 

2. Lack of viewer support.  For whatever reason, LL felt the need to shove mesh out, knowing full well that the majority of the grid couldn't see/use/interact with it.  That's great, but it also creates a ton of users walking around thinking they look awesome in the latest fashions who look like total dorks with huge spheres around them because they will have to pry phoenix out of my pixel hands.  Based on the massive number of people I've seen using phoenix still, seems I'm not alone in this.

 

3. I kinda like my shape, I've tweaked it over years and I'm rather fond of her.  I don't want to look like barbie just like everyone else to fit into an outfit that someone else created.  I think I know the reason why most mesh outfits don't fit properly, the designers are using the default avi mesh, which is TINY if you have ever looked at it.  That's something that's a huge difference to the actual avatars that are in world, and as such creates some serious fit issues.  If someone has actually exported a realistic shape to use in the program then fit would be much better.

Currently I'm just sitting back and watching mesh, the SLINK boots are tempting but sorry not worth giving up my fav viewer for.  I've tried using v2, it blows, and Firestorm while better is still a whole lot like v2 and has a few bugs that as a creator make it really, really difficult to work with.  LL seriously screwed up when they released v2, and should really scrap the project and start over and just cut the huge financial losses of v2.

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I find myself agreeing with Nuuna. In the realm of fashion and clothing. I am not that excited about what mesh can offer. I use a shape of my own, and the few peicesI have tried were just impossible to fit. Agreeing with Nuuna again, I find some of the full avitar mesh designs really amazing! Dirty Lynx has come realyl cool offering and the flexibilty of these new avi's isa site to behold.

 

All that said, I dont think  mesh was ever intended to be that big an influence on clothing or the avitar. The real benefit comes in building items such as buildings, vehicles and so forth. the ability to curve and shape and texture without the traditional prim boundaires is really moving design forward in SL. I just saw the coolest looking pink corvette stingray made from less prims than the shoes I had on! Houses with magnificent curves and arches are being built with half of the normal prims requires.

Mesh is great for many things, but clearly not all things.

 

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I am so confused by mesh. 

I have worked out it is another layer but it is shared? It is the same layer for all parts of the body?

Except for shoes I haven't understood or appreciated the real benefits.  At least we get rid of the infamous invisi prim.

I need written tutorials as well as video ones to explain it all to me.

So for now the jury is out deciding. lol

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Same that Nuuna :P even if for some accessories mesh will rocks !

For hair, it's pretty cool, i have tested one from Alice Project and the effect is nice. And i'm impatient to see choker in mesh, and corset, and belt !!

for shoes i don't really see the effect, just if it's for long boots.

I'm impatient to see all what creators will do, i have visited the aditi grid when mesh were just for test, i have seen some building in mesh, i hope to see them inworld :)

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Cara Ametza wrote:

2. Lack of viewer support.  For whatever reason, LL felt the need to shove mesh out, knowing full well that the majority of the grid couldn't see/use/interact with it.  That's great, but it also creates a ton of users walking around thinking they look awesome in the latest fashions who look like total dorks with huge spheres around them because they will have to pry phoenix out of my pixel hands.  Based on the massive number of people I've seen using phoenix still, seems I'm not alone in this.

Lots of people were excited about mesh. They were waiting and waiting when Linden Lab will finally enable mesh in the main grid. Yes, Linden Lab was aware that lots of people were using outdated viewers. Maybe they were also waiting for people to upgrade before releasing mesh? Well, as we know now, lots of people didn't upgrade as they really saw no reason to upgrade. Finally Linden Lab decided that it's the time to release the mesh. Else everybody is just waiting and waiting even more for the other party to act. It was the right move. Mesh is still a baby with it's problems. Surely it will evolve, this is just the first stage.

As for viewer support: Linden Lab is committed to V2/V3 viewer. I guess it's in vain to hope that they will go back to V1. Firestorm is an excellent alternative to Linden Lab viewer. It just takes some time to get used to it. It's an initial shock I agree. After using Firestorm since it was first released I feel very comfortable with it. It's like a second nature now, just as Phoenix was earlier. I can do just about everything with it in what I did with Phoenix. Firestorm is not any more difficult to use than Phoenix is. It's just different, takes some time to learn it. (But if one hates it, then one for sure is not even interested to learn it... :matte-motes-evil-invert: )

For those who would not touch V2/V3 or Firestorm even with a long stick, there are some (temporary) good news. Phoenix will have mesh support after all soon. The next release of Phoenix will have two versions: No mesh supported one and mesh supported one. Very old computer users, don't keep your fingers crossed though. It might be that your computer may not be able to run mesh enabled Phoenix. It has more code due to mesh, it needs more resources from the computer. Nothing can be about this fact, it just is so. Look here for the full story:

What's this rumor about Phoenix Viewer getting mesh?

If somebody still wants to see mesh wearers as "total dorks" it's their choice naturally, it does not bother me at all, I think it bothers more the user who does not see mesh properly. :smileywink:

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I think mesh is amazing - and I've already purchased some clothing and a few other items made with it. The one dress is so beautiful that it could be my wedding gown! The only thing was a little adjustment I needed to make, but it was pretty insignificant in my case.

Some people have worried about mesh "taking over" like "the blob" or something, but I know it's just another material and set of tools for us to use to make SL even more beautiful. It's application in fashion is going to be surprising, I think...and I am looking forward to seeing more of it. However, it's not going to replace the world of prim and sculpted clothing and other items. So...I will evaluate it like everything else - on a case-by-case basis.

Thank you for this topic, Strawberry! It's an important one.

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And now a new problem encountered with mesh...... a club I frequent, recently asked the management team, how do we deal with avatars who come in wearing mesh clothing/avatars that the majority of our club goers can not see, and when unrezzed are the size of a small car? 

Well... that is an interesting dilemma for sure..... as a club owner, they are concerned about the chatter (as there has already been a few arguments in the club over mesh) and more so, concerned over space on the dance floor.  The avatar in mesh does not see a problem, so they don't get it.  But to the rest of us... they are walking/dancing around with a giant car/donut on their body attacking everyone else on the dance floor, because they do not see how big that mesh thing is on them.  They have no reason to believe they are encroaching on anothers "personal space".  So, what is a club owner to do?  Do you say "sorry, no mesh clothing/avatars allowed until we are mostly on mesh veiwers?"  Do you kindly ask those that are encroaching on others space to remove the mesh or leave?  Do you stay out of it, and let it drive other customers away because they don't like being whomped by a big mesh ball?

I wonder how its being handled elsewhere?

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Just came to a store with nice clothes. Clicked to but and only then realised it was mesh so I didn't. I really don't get why mesh is being used for clothes. the top isn't mesh, just the bottom and this outfit had cut outs on the legs so I'd most likely have my skin colour on top and the mesh one on the bottom.

I like my shape. It's what makes me ''me' and not part of some uniform standard av. Mesh clothes should be labelled as that and really why bother?

 

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I agree with you about the mesh shoes. I bought a pair of knee-high mesh boots, though, and love them! Though they don't fit quite as well as I'd like, there is no awkward join between the foot and the calf sections of the boots; they're all in one piece, and move beautifully! And I've seen Slink's lovely thigh-high boots, and wow! So nice, much moreso than prim boots that have three or more pieces for each leg. Closer fitting, less bulky, and they move much better. I hope to see more!

Corsets in mesh would be great! I love mesh skirts and dresses, because of the movement. But, I still have that same old problem with mesh that makes me hesitant to buy as much as I want, and that's that it still doesn't fit me right without shape adjustments. But, sure is pretty. 

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I also refuse to give into the body nazis and turn myself into a sl stick-woman to fit into mesh. To me it appears that the reason it is all being made so tiny is that it has the same visual effect as the much (and rightfully) maligned "skirt" layer of clothing--which is good for some jackets and not much else. Like the skirt layer, mesh, as used now, seems to make tiny asses look big and well shaped asses look planet-sized. At least that is how the dresses I tried on worked. I assume that is one reason Mesh clothing makers are building garments for stick figure avatars.

My shape is ME. I am not willing to carve off parts of myself to fit into any fashion so that mesh implementors can have their pounds of flesh. I sincerely hope that a solution is found for this, or else that mesh is abandoned in the fashion world. It will be better put to use in other areas.

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