Mesh clothing sizes

[Spirit Osmus]

Hello everyone!

 

I am creator of clothes and I faced with SIZES problem.

I make 3 sizes now, with options of shape: 

SIZES:
---S---
Torso Muscles: 32
Breast size: 15
Body fat: 0
Love Handles: 20
Belly Size: 0
Leg Muscles: 50
Butt Size: 17
Saddle Bags: 30

---M---
Torso Muscles: 63
Breast size: 63
Body fat: 0
Love Handles: 40
Belly Size: 9
Leg Muscles: 76
Butt Size: 45
Saddle Bags: 38

---L---
Torso Muscles: 81
Breast size: 79
Body fat: 50
Love Handles: 53
Belly Size: 18
Leg Muscles: 88
Butt Size: 87
Saddle Bags: 54


 

So I have many issues, that any size is well for some ppl.

 

And what I think, creators needs standart options of shape for sizes of clothes. May be its exist? May be I am not alone in my thinking? What can you tell about? 

 

Thanks.

[Ariel Vuissent]

One of the major reason people - myself included - don't want to use mesh clothing is just this. I don't want to have to be a standard shape to wear clothes. I'd rather stick with prim and system clothes, that adjust to fit me or that I can modify to fit.

It's a good idea to include the slider values for each shape with the clothing, on a notecard or something. I'm guessing you do this now? If not, it might be a good thing to start, so that people know what sizes they need to be in order to wear your prim clothing and have it look right.

For myself, I'll probably stick to my own shape and prim and system clothing. It has to be pretty fantastic for me to get something mesh, for now.

[nikita Jefferson]

I agree.i don't want anything to do with mesh clothes,i don't know why some feel the need to make them,i have an affilate line in my shop and was sent a mesh dress

First it was nt anything to look at and had about 5 different sizes if i remember, and the card said one might still have to adjust their avy to fit the clothes.

That is silly i have a shape i do not want to change, what about a mesh tops can we have a skin tight top like we can do now with non mesh tops

There really were 't any instructions so i tried it, could 'nt figure it out and i did 'nt have the patience to try,maybe mesh is good for something but the old clothes we have always had are the best for me

I deleted that mesh one,i will not carry it in stock.

[Yabusaka Loon]

Oh thats exactly what I would like to know.

I can understand the people want to use many different shapes but reality of mesh doesn't allow that.

So I think its a great idea to decide 3 standerd shapes for mesh clothing designer.

Then people dont need to change shape each time they change the clothing and maybe help to mix clothing from different shops.

 

[Ceera Murakami]

Mesh clothing won't be mainstream until it adjusts to all appearance sliders, without any of this nonsense about forcing users to conform to a particular size.

None of your sizes would fit my female avatars. Even if we matched on the settings you're basing on, there are other sliders that also affect fit that you're missing, like breast bouyancy, and cleavage.  It just does not work.

You could make 100 "standard sizes", and it still won'tt fit a lot of people, because your idea of what follows with what is different than someone else's.

Here's just two of my partial shapes, noting your sliders plus the two other ones that are critical for the fit on the breasts.

--- "Size Ceera, Human" ---
Torso Muscles: 60
Breast size: 32
Breast Bouyancy: 34
Breast Cleavage: 10
Body fat: 0
Love Handles: 28
Belly Size: 0
Leg Muscles: 50
Butt Size: 27
Saddle Bags: 27

--- "Size Ceera, KZK Vixen" ---
Torso Muscles: 58
Breast size: 72
Breast Bouyancy: 48
Breast Cleavage: 24
Body fat: 7
Love Handles: 20
Belly Size: 0
Leg Muscles: 51
Butt Size: 30
Saddle Bags: 36

With either of those two, none of your choices would fit. Even if you matched my numbers perfectly, but chose some different default for breast bouyancy and cleavage, it still wouldn't fit.

 

[Yabusaka Loon]

If you dont want to use mesh clothing thats fine.

Just stay away from it.

But from the creator side of view, desiding "standard" shape would be very helpful.

And buyer would be benefited much as well since they dont need to have tons of shapes for each mesh clothing.

Just need one standard shape that will fit to all the mesh clothing and you can mix & match clothing from many shops.

I think the most successfull mesh clothing maker right now is Jane, PixelDolls and SLink?

Are mesh clothing from them require all different shapes?

If we can find the shape parameters fits to mesh clothing from all these 3 designers, maybe that would be the one of standard shape.

 

I don't want to see "mesh clothing is sucks because it wont fit all the shapes" kind of comments here anymore.

Everyone here already know that and thats not the point of this thread.

We are just trying to find the way to make as many people as possible happy with what we have right now.

 

 

[Ariel Vuissent]

To be frank, once this thread was posted I had the right, as does anyone else, to post whatever I wanted about mesh clothing, as relates to the topic at hand. I gave my opinion, and whether or not you "want to see it" is your business, not mine.

However, the point of many such opinions is that setting three, or more, or less, "standard sizes" of mesh clothing still won't work very well for the majority of users on SL. Even if creators all choose to stick to the same basic values size-wise, those sizes won't work for the people buying the clothing. I don't know anyone on SL who would be willing to change their shape to a "standard" shape in order to fit into clothing, when there are so many non-mesh clothing items to choose from. And since so many people create their own shape, you can't even go to popular shape creators and see what the most common or average values are. You can provide a notecard listing the values of the shapes for which you created your mesh clothing, but don't expect a lot of people to spend a lot of lindens to buy something they have to adjust themselves to fit.

Your best bet, I think, is to wander around SL looking at shapes. Get familiar with how the numbers on each slider correlate to the actual appearance of the body part it references; then see what seems about average to you. Do most women seem to have busts that hover around 60-ish? Love handles around 30, maybe? Bottoms at 50? Or create a poll, and see if you can find a way to get people to take it. I don't have my own values on hand right now, or I'd share them.

If you currently have a shop, you could try something like entering visitors in a raffle for answering a survey. Or offering a free gift for those who respond. From there, creators can get together and share these values with other creators and see if an average, or a few averages - large, medium, and small, or something like that - and advertise those to still other creators, to try to help them fit as many people as possible into their mesh creations.

These are my thoughts. I have as much a right to mine as you have to yours. I hope you find this helpful, but if you don't, that's fine too. I have voiced my opinions.

[Spirit Osmus]

So. I think its great discussion, but I see that many ppl donts understand anythink about mesh.

 

If u check my old sizes, wich I write upper, u will see that its not all options of SL shape, only some! Pls Attention ONLY some options, wich we need for mesh clothes look correctly on ava. So Standart size it NOT stansart shape !! I will never look like somebody as others. But for use mesh clothes we need some standart options and blieve me it will be good for al, for creators and for customers.

Think, in RL we have same sizes, but we havent two same ppl. Understand me ? I am not suggesting standart shapes, I suggest standart SIZES !  

And today I create my own SIZE MAP. I ready to share it with all designers and creator, who really think that I am right.

 

SO today I buy many shapes in different stores and create my own SIZES map for more popular shapes sizes. Anyway, I hope that this sizes map will be more good for all kind of shapes. 

 

Size XS (Example - ::[annaA]:: Body Shape "Feriha" )

Body fat: 5
Torso Muscles: 22
Breast size: 53
Love Handles: 37
Belly Size: 4
Leg Muscles: 39
Butt Size: 24
Saddle Bags: 26

Size S (Example - -SoulBody- Shape Ponyo)

Body fat: 0
Torso Muscles: 20
Breast size: 65
Love Handles: 41
Belly Size: 5
Leg Muscles: 47
Butt Size: 31
Saddle Bags: 34

Size M (Example - -Belleza- Erika shape)

Body fat: 0
Torso Muscles: 30
Breast size: 58
Love Handles: 24
Belly Size: 0
Leg Muscles: 48
Butt Size: 25
Saddle Bags: 35

Size L (Example - KRASOTA - Tatyana shape)

Body fat: 0
Torso Muscles: 63
Breast size: 63
Love Handles: 40
Belly Size: 9
Leg Muscles: 76
Butt Size: 45
Saddle Bags: 38

Size XL (Example - KRASOTA - Crumpet shape)

Body fat: 20
Torso Muscles: 67
Breast size: 75
Love Handles: 40
Belly Size: 16
Leg Muscles: 86
Butt Size: 61
Saddle Bags: 50

 

I will create all clotheswith that sizes and TEST it. If issues will be, I will try to correct it allways ))

 

Thanks all

[Starborn Nightfire]

Your yelling (I mean that figurativly) at each other about what mesh will and won't do.  The people you should be talking to is LL.  The beta testers asked for more features that would allow resizing mesh to an avatar, but LL decided it was too much work fo rthe initial rollout and back burnered this for a future release.  Tell LL you want to see this feature.  The creators want it, the merchants want it, and the consumers want it.  So stop bickering amongst yourselves over these issues and instead talk to LL and request development on this.

[Ashasekayi Ra]

Thanks for making that list. It's very helpful to have an idea of some averages. Hopefully, LL will see the importance of getting this sizing issue fixed in the near future. But until then, it would help for designers to get on the same page about sizes.

[Yabusaka Loon]

Thanks Spirit for shearing this !!

Thats really helpful.

At the SLUniverse forum, I was also suggested to check;

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/57992-whats-your-digits.html

and

http://www.flickr.com/groups/digits/

Not all the images includes important shape values but some images might be helpful.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ariel Vuissent]

Something like this is what I was trying to suggest I'm sure this will (hopefully) be helpful to many clothing creators, and help many of us who like to shop be able to fit into mesh clothing better with what we have now.

[NyahHall]

Hello Everyone,

I have been trying out the various Mesh clothes available and thought I would throw my 2 cents in...

I created my own shape using the various proportion guides around (ie: using head lengths to measure body proportions). My avi is pretty much bang on in proportion. As I understand it, the various tools that are used to make Mesh clothing, have models in them that revolve around standard human proportion (so I have read anyway .

That being said, all the clothing I have tried so far has fit almost perfectly using what the creators call "default" size, and I only had a smidge peeking out from under the mesh clothing which the alpha layer got rid of. The Jane's stuff so far fit the best for me.

Personally I think the the Mesh clothes look great on my avi, and am looking forward to more creations in SL. Of course thats my opinion, lol.

I realize that Mesh clothing may not be embraced by everyone, for various reasons, I just wanted to let people know how it has worked for me so far.

Thanks

 

 

[Marymac Dougall]

Long before mesh clothing came along, no one whined about having to have feet at size 0 to wear sculpty shoes or to make sure a head was just the right size to wear prim hair which was hard to adjust to fit and avoid showing scalp. Even now, as lovely nails on fingers would be, the hands have to be just so to wear them. Does the entire population whine about making those adjustments to use them? No. Same goes for the mesh clothing at this stage. We are doing good to have them if even in limited number of sizes.

Eventually, there will be some ability to make adjustments to the meshes or have some other way to make them fit better. Right now, I don't get too upset when I can squat on the ground or sit in a chair. My skirt still covers my legs or my butt. No complaints there. Even the flowing cloth is nice enough and doesn't need any more fancy dancy adjustment to get it.  It's already there. If I go to a store to get something that is made just one way, I either pony over the funds for it as it is and don't complain or I keep shopping and find what I want somewhere else. Another solution is to get something custom made.

For now, we are doing the best that can be done and to go too far with too many sizes, by the time that is done a new way to get better fit will already be here and be nothing but a big waste of effort and more lindens. If that is given to the public it will cause a price hike because the time put into giving the people want will take enough RL time to be worth the price or you'd get nothing more but junk. Every mesh that is uploaded is another cost that will be factored into the creations and will reach deeper into the public pockets unless the creators do not value their work themselves. 

[Trix Braveheart]

I've sen mesh cltohing so far offered by some in regular and curvy or by others as small, medium and large.

And, a few manufacturers offer samples that you can try on to know whether it will fit.

Is there any interest in creating sizes as in RL from 0, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8 up to say 15/16 all designed to fit the incredibly tall avatars in SL?

On a practical note, how hard would that be to do? and Where is the best place to design those changes...in world or in the original design? I'm fairly new to blender, but, I'm thinking bone weight copying 10 sizes would be hard because you would need to scale and manipulate the clothing to a whole range of default avatars.

To those who don't like that the clothing covers their shape, hmmm...isn't that what RL clothing does? I think I look better in a well designed dress than I do naked...it's about how it hangs and accentuates the positive...giggles TMI, I know

[Ashasekayi Ra]

Making more and more sizes for one outfit is time consuming. Therefore, the outfit would be more expensive. The question is ... are people willing to pay more for a large size range? Another interesing question is... are people willing to pay extra for it to be tailored to their shape?

[Trix Braveheart]

About the tailoring, there are some merchants in SL that offer that, I'm thinking particularly of Yoni's Designs. Her chains are quite elaborate and are difficult to fit on larger avatars, smiles I know.

I might ask her how often people ask for that service, sort of a percentage of customers...of course, mesh is a little different, there is not the opportunity for the customer to change the size themselves.

[Ashasekayi Ra]

Yes, I remember there used to be a prim silks designer that offered tailoring. She had some silks that had very intricate prim parts. I actually never used the tailoring service although a friend of mine did. I am curious how many people used the service.

[Sae Luan]

When you are modeling, how do you know what size to make the mesh before uploading it?  Is there a way to change the values in your program?  I use Maya..

[Martin Requiem]

Hey all.

First of all im new to MESH clothing, but im not new to comming up with creative idea's

then again sometimes people can already thought about this.

 

We have scripters, photographers, Builders, Home decorators, club managers, other bussinesses in SL.

How about we add " The Personal Tailor" 

If you know you are a great designer of mesh clothing, then why not give your company a personal touch?

If I'm getting more experienced in creating mesh clothing, and I had the time for it i would offer personal tailoring.

But how you say? 

Clearly people have a point, even if you made 100 sizes, still it wont fit some peoples personal slider settings.

Then i say, TEACH your clients in order to help them.

Teach what?

simple:

Learn them " how to export their most used shape " as an XML file which then can be imported within your personal 3D application and fit the clothing on it as a manequin .

 

Thereby you ensure unless your client is abou to change their shape a lot, you can make a more perfect personalized fitting outfit.

 

Again, i just have thoughts, I migth flaw or not think to in dept about this, but atleast if i knew how, I would go by this route.

There are many creators who crate clothing and sell good, cause they well, look good.

How many personal tailors are there out there who create clothing specificly for their clients fit?

 

let me know what you all think about this?