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Nataly Moonwall

I want my avatar improved!!

14 posts in this topic

Hi all. Well, Mesh is a wonderful thing  but why in all these years LL has not improved our avatar mesh?

i'm talking about keep the same avatar but a bit improved (more polygons). I know that current clothes and skins would fit anyway in a new avatar more polygonal. Seriously, i think that this could have been also a great and very important improvement for SL .

The new mesh avatars that will come (some of them already on the market) are great but are NOT customizable (no modify). I want a modify avatar and i enjoy editing my appearance. I LOVE the SL editor, but  i would like an avatar without the hard angles on the breasts, elbows,legs...and evidently with improved hands and feet. I know that technically is possible. Maybe there could be a new avatar introduced as "HQ Shape"...just an idea. This would not have a drastic impact in-world regarding performance level. Opinions?

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We've been asking for a better AV mesh for years, but implementing such a thing isn't quite as easy as it seems. The problem isn't adding a new AV mesh as a viewer option, so that users could choose and current AV content would not be broken in the process.. that's the easy part. It's that making a new AV option at all is an incredible amount of 3D work and probably something LL doesn't want to devote manpower to. Many don't realize that there's a complete 3D mesh part for every default, minimum, and maximum slider setting, for every shape slider in every catagory, including every clothing appearance slider that uses mesh or deformation.. as well as at least 2 complete model parts for every hardcoded hand and facial gesture, and there are a lot of those. Just making the 3D parts and all the hundreds of morph point variations is a major undertaking, even for a team of people. That also doesn't address the problem of how to make UV texture wrapping for the new AV compatible with the current shape and appearance system, which is a whole different headache.

I agree it would be completely awesome, and nobody more than I would love to hear that LL has secretly had people squirreled away in a basement somewhere working on this for the last 2 years and it'll be ready for us later today. I just can't deny that the logistics of making such a thing happen might be a bit much to think feasible at this point, but I can still hope.

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I would love to see a new mesh for our avatars but I've seen requests for new avatars all the time and nothing new has ever come out. I think the main problem is how to retain the old texture mapping with the new mesh. That would break almost every single piece of clothing and skin which is a huge deal. They did actually make a few changes to the mesh a while back but it was just moving things around on the current mesh and not anything new.

But even if it is difficult for LL to come up with a new mesh and getting the texture mapping right, if it's not impossible, I think they should work on it. I mean, in the gaming world, if your product looks old people don't want to play it. When I read reviews for MMOGs (massively multiplayer online games) they often cite outdated graphics as a con. But if it is going to be near impossible to make new avatars and keep existing content, then LL needs to launch a new world.

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LL has explained that a revamp of the default av would be a huge undertaking as Dana explained. I have no reason to doubt that but, it seems to me, that as the avatar is the foundation for our presence in the world, our electronic representation, that making it look first rate would be a top priority.

In my opinion making the default av, the essential part of the SL experience, look as good as possible should be a top priority for the Lab. 

All the new "features" that LL's been giving us over the past couple of years are nice but, they're dessert. Time to focus a lot more on the main course.

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One common misconception a lot of people have is that new avatar meshes would break existing content. Nothing could be further from the truth. Linden Lab doesn't even need to make the old clothing/sken textures work with the new mesh options so long as it's possible to swap between old and new avatar meshes.

The real issue is that it would be a huge undetaking, not because of the amount of 3D modelling work that is needed (that's actually trivial) it's the amount of backend infrastructure work behind the scenes that would be problematic.  Still, I agree with the sentiment that it's very much a "must fix" problem for LL. They need to make the avatar look good. It's the very core of the SL experience.

Unfortunately, Linden Lab has yet to get details as simple as starter avatars right so far.

 I've even talked to multiple Lindens who are convinced mesh import entirely negates the need for an improved avatar mesh, saying that users can now upload their own custom avatar mesh shapes. This shows a downright terrifying lack of understanding of their own product. Anyone who has used full prim avatars or prim bodypart replacements can tell you how limiting this is. 

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I agree that Lindens does not understand their product. To be fair, it is their work, so when they log in, it's probably an endless list of chores to take care of. After a long day at work, they probably log off with a sigh of relief, the last thing they want is to log in again just for leisure and go around customizing their avatar. They really don't see the need of a better avatar. The Lindens is infamous for having bad looking avatars.

Some takes more interest in their avatars, like Torley, but I suppose he is more interested in buildings and structures. I can not imagine Torley pulling his hair out in RL when he tries on a pair of pumps on his avatar and see how deforemed the default mesh are. That ugly dent on the foot ruins the look of even the best made shoes.

Uploading full mesh avatars... Goodbye small merchants who sell clothing that fits on standard avatars. It is a whole industry based upon the fact that things can be mixed and matched.  And I would hate to buy an avatar that I can not wear other things with. I have to use only the clothes that fits this avatar? Ugh.

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My thought is that LL really needs an in-world crative department. Creative professionals who create a small amount of Linden content for the Library, but mostly serve to oversee resident contracted work, the DPW moles, quality control on Linden Library items and starter avatars, providing internal feedback on the creative tools, and creating marketing/promotional materials.

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Absolutely agree Penny. As far i know  current clothes or skins would fit on avatar mesh improved.

New avatars mesh imported will never replace an improved LL avatar mesh CUSTOMIZABLE and for sure not everyone knows how to make a customized avatar mesh in 3D programs ( and texturized! ). In my opinion, the new avatars will work for fantasy avis ( Furry, robot, monsters...) but not for those who want the avatar customized to own  taste.

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The most amazing thing that ridiculously improved all the avatars I see was a new big box computer that my husband plugged into the TV.  Now I get to sit in a comfy chair with a wireless keyboard and mouse while watching SL come to life in way more beautiful ways than I could have ever expected.

I know that's not where you were going with this thread, but since I'm stuck on a work trip away from home with my laptop I'm seeing the sad old SL I was used to and just had to comment (sharp edges, awkward shapes etc). 

The great news is that there's something you can personally do to improve things without waiting for LL.  Perhaps LL thinks they've already done a good job and they're just waiting for all of us to get computers that bring it to life?

I'll keep my fingers crossed for the mesharoni and plenty of polygons, but in the meantime I'm thankful for what a new computer did for me and might be able to do for you.

Lanas

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Technology/hardware can improve visual quality a lot, but some things require better art assets.

Despite being 4 years old, my computer runs SL better than average and I have a nice big 42" screen to run it on. So my avatar looks way better on this than my tiny, underpowered laptop that can only run SL at the minimum settings.

 A better mesh model for the avatar would make my avatar look better on BOTH.

 And to be clear, it's not a matter of adding more polygons. The SL avatar mesh is just poorly made. The UV maps don't line up properly, there's ugly seams (very noticible if you don't go with an unnatrually flat belly) the lack of toes for the feet, pinched vertices in the face...there's a lot that could be done better. Someone even edited the SL avatar mesh to show how the inner thigh area, a notoriously bad spot on the SL av mesh, could be improved just by moving the existing vertices, not adding any more! This fix could be made to SL without breaking existing content so there's no reason it hasn't been done.

 Also, a single body shape can only be deformed so much before it looks bad, which is why I'd personalyl advocate several compatible avatar meshes capable of using the same improved texture UV maps. I'd say minimum 3 sets. Muscular, average and fat.

 Additional mesh layers for clothing could be great, too. Like women's shirts that cover breast cleavage more naturally, rather than looking liek they're painted on a naked body. It would also help keep the clothing market strong with more options from people who may be comfortable retexturing the base model mesh options, but not so comfortable moddelling their own mesh clothing.

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Lanas Criss wrote:

The most amazing thing that ridiculously improved all the avatars I see was a new big box computer that my husband plugged into the TV.  Now I get to sit in a comfy chair with a wireless keyboard and mouse while watching SL come to life in way more beautiful ways than I could have ever expected.

Lanas

Want
.

Specs, please.

 

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I'm finally back from my trip so I could jump back onto the Magic Second Life Big Box Computer Tour Bus in our living room and I saw that you'd asked for 'Specs'... I know the TV is a Sony Bravia (says so on the front) although there's no size on it but 40 something inch is what I recall when we had the budget debates.  (I also saw that I'd been yelling in big fonts while on my laptop cause its sooooo smmmallllll and hard to see... sorry everyone)

As for the computer it's an HP Pavilion Elite HPE on the front label and I cut n' pasted the 'properties' for you in case that helps.  The properties said 'HPE-250f' which I Googled to see what it might say and it had all the "ATI Radeon HD 5770 Series Graphics With 1GB DDR5" type answers you're probably looking for but there was so much that I didn't know if you'd be interested  in that I didn't cut n' paste, but you can obviously look.

What I think is most important, but probably wasn't on your interest list either is the IKEA chair that makes it soooo comfortable, so I threw in a picture of that from their website.  There's a perfect height coffee table that the mouse, and a tasty drink, sit on and the keyboard in your lap is fantastic as well.  We picked up the keyboard and mouse together from Sam's a while back, its the Microsoft Wireless Comfort Keyboard 5000 package.  Notice the 'Comfort' theme... ahhhh ;)

Enjoy the Specs (I'd recommend this wonderful setup to anyone!)

Lanas

Happy Setup.png

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