Grand Theft Auto in Second Life

[Ishtara Rothschild]

Can you spot the difference between these two images?

 

 

Solution: One of these screenshots was taken in Grand Theft Auto, the other one in Second Life.

 

I'm not pointing fingers here. This was very much to be expected, and we'll soon see a screwton of this stuff. I'm just laughing my smoothly shaven butt off at the sweet irony. If there ever was a game that strongly encouraged its players to do exactly this, it's GTA. It's almost karmic :smileyvery-happy:

 

ETA: Perhaps there is something to the claim that video games affect people's behavior after all?

[Niko Kozower]

Think this might be illegal.. but none the less looks pretty good.

[Ishtara Rothschild]

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Niko Kozower wrote:

Think this might be illegal.. but none the less looks pretty good.

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Of course it is illegal. But so are all activities that are promoted by GTA. I'm just laughing at the irony that game developers who encourage kids to steal cars and sell them for profit have their own virtual cars stolen and probably sold for profit

I have no idea who made this btw. I came across the screenshots in another forum. If I saw this thing inworld, it would probably look like a donut with a license plate.

[Deej Kasshiki]

It's very much illegal.

People warned that this would happen but, over and over we heard that it wouldn't be "practical" to bring content from games or from various 3-D download sites into SL. Yep. You bet.

Never underestimate the ingenuity of gamers.

 

[Pamela Galli]

Yes, it seemed obvious to me from the first that SL would see a flood of stuff from games and 3D content sites -- and that there would be no one around to DMCA them, unless the creators decided to spend their time monitoring Second Life. But mostly this was discounted as unwarranted concern.

[Nacy Nightfire]

The prevalence of this and its impact on SL probably has been decided that it will not increase the current amount of theft that already has taken place and is expected to take place in SL.  This is like a virus.  You will never eliminated it completely and it's a constant battle.  And LL can't possibly budget for a staff that constantly monitors this activity on every corner of the grd.  That's what we dear citizens are here for. There's a reporting procedure and to the degree we care and are passionate about such things we will report them.

In RL if I'm walking down the street and witness someone stealing something out of another persons car, I make note of it and report the person to the authorities.

[Deej Kasshiki]

Nacy you're asking an awful lot of a normal resident. It's not Ishtara's job, nor yours or mine to act as IP police for SL. Actually unless we're the legal rights holder of said IP we have no standing to file a complaint, nor would the Lab be under any obligation to investigate such a complaint even if filed.

 Also, bad analogy to RL. A better one would be if you were walking down the street and saw a man selling "Rolleks" watches and "Louise Vuitton" bags from the trunk of his car.

[Pamela Galli]

Nacy, the problem is that LL will do nothing without a DMCA (and in my experience, often nothing with one.)  There is no way, for example, to report stolen item sold on the marketplace. DMCA by the original creator is all there is. And if the original creator is not in SL, he will probably never know.

[Nacy Nightfire]

Deej, I'll accept your correction to my RL crime example.

If Ishy can take the time to post an example of what he feels is a crime here on the forum and take this issue to the resident public, why is it asking alot for him to report it to the authorities?  If he does report it and the product STILL remains and he's convinced that LL did not investigate and the owners of the mesh would be unhappy the mesh is being distributed in SL, THEN it's worth posting here.

We have an AR system that people use all the tiime.  I don't have an AR trigger finger, but in one instance when I had a copybot issue I got IMMEDIATE attention from a linden representative.  I'm sure that doesn't happen all the time, but I'm convinced they care just as much as we do and are doing what can be reasonably expected to keep folks happy here.

No, if we are not the owner that is being affected by the mesh, we don't have standing to file a complaint in preparation to go to court over the issue any more then I could file a complaint if I saw someone selling Rolegs watches.  That would be Rolex's job  I could alert the attention of the authorities to a potential crime or even contact the Rolex company if I had the inclination to do so, however.

(although I think perhaps company like Rolex couldn't bother with the issue..this form of copying  an excellent form of free advertising of their brand. The people who would purchase such an item from a street vendor would never buy the real thing, but here we are talking about the Rolex Brand and propping it up as the ultimate brand one would want to own)

[Chronometria]

I don't really care personally. It's a car, from a game that has had its day. When people think of grand theft auto, they dont immediately think of this car, they think of the various characters that are in it, like Tommy vercetti or that gang from san andreas.

 

Cars in grand theft auto are usually vaguely modelled and name after real cars anyway. I mean, what else is going to be on the roads in a game that simulates real life to an extent.

 

I have outfits that clearly look like the ones in TRON and i have seen numerous skins that are attempting to look like real people. I think this car is a fairly minor concern.

[Jacki Silverfall]

To this thread. What was meant as a joke, which yes I can see the irony I can also see the underlying implications to start another stolen mesh is entering the grid thread. Ha ha yes that was cute Ishtara.

But indeed it did start the scare of this happening. Which as stated has been happening in Sl for some time it's just meshes turn.

The attacks on some of the posts is in my opinion uncalled for and unnecessary. EVERYONE has the right to post their opinion here. It is no ones business to tell them how they should post or make fun of them in the process by taking words out of context.

And ya know what? LL does count on us to do their policing, also their customer service. See the Answer thread. We help more people than their own staff.

Most people in this post have it in for Mesh, Well to bad. It's here deal with it. It's the future learn or... Don't learn. 

As far as someone not having a store here or inworld means nothing! I mean what the blank does that have to do with the price of tea in China. It's just knit picking. Maybe, just maybe they will have a store.

And frankly I've been to some of the stores that people have here. I can see why some would be apprehensive about mesh coming. I have a little store that makes things everyone can make. But it's for fun. And if your counting on your income to support your tiers or sims or whatever, forever. That's just not good business sense. Things change you have to change with it. Or at least a back up plan.

Now tear me up!

[Jenni Darkwatch]

Frankly... content theft as well as IP infringement is ridiculously rampant in SL. Go to the marketplace and look up "Star Wars", look up "Star Trek", look up just about ANY brand name. You'll get pages of illegal content.

And no, LL doesn't give a damn, as witnessed by the fact that it's impossible to even flag/report such items if you're not the rights holder.

[Jacki Silverfall]

Then they pull it right out of your inventory and leave ya a note, after you paid for it. It happened to me with a box full of dances I had no idea some were copied.

Lesson learned tho.

[Ishtara Rothschild]

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Jacki Silverfall wrote:

As far as someone not having a store here or inworld means nothing! I mean what the blank does that have to do with the price of tea in China. It's just knit picking. Maybe, just maybe they will have a store.

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I guess you haven't had the chance to read all replies, seeing that some of them are gone now (somebody here must have an itchy trigger finger).

Someone was so incredibly nice to point out that this forum is for creators who make SL a better place and suggested that I leave these people to their hard work (apparently I'm one of the creators who makes SL worse). That's why I asked this nice person where I can find and/or buy her world-improving content, in the assumption that I might be talking to an important entrepreneur or artist. It turned out that I was mistaken though.

I certainly didn't mean to suggest that people ought to have a store or be a SLelebrity in order to post here. Actually, I've argued the opposite angle, namely that this forum is for everyone. Even for people like myself who don't make SL a better place, have no good business sense, and don't think that we need a Blender subforum.

[Jacki Silverfall]

:smileyvery-happy: Ya know if you had dark hair it would really make the pink skin pop! :smileytongue:

[Vivienne Schell]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Nacy, the problem is that LL will do nothing without a DMCA (and in my experience, often nothing with one.)  There is no way, for example, to report stolen item sold on the marketplace. DMCA by the original creator is all there is. And if the original creator is not in SL, he will probably never know.

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Probably Linden Lab won´t do anything But some lawyers contracted by the publishers of the original games won´t file a DMCA. They´ll simply sue Linden Lab for participating in and profiting by content theft and - in worst case - some judge will close the entire place down. This isn´t some graphix freelancer harmed by a texture rip, it´s a billion dollar industry.

[Medhue Simoni]

Sorry, but this is most likely not an infringement in anyway, nor is it illegal.

#1 - Is the model the exact same model as in GT whatever?

Nope, not even close. Major Fail here on whether it is "illegal".

#2 - Can a car shape or fashion clothing be trademarked or copyrighted?

Nope!!! Fail again.

So, where exactly is the infringement?

IP is not, if this or that looks like something else. A copyright, has to do with a copy and what some1 else can do with that copy, or how that copy gets reproduced. You can't create a specific looking couch and then say that no1 else can create anything like it. That is not a copyright. If some1 actually did file something as a trademark, then they might have some legal standing, but that is shaky. Even Colt could not hold the trademark for their M4 carbine rifle.

When we talk in SL about copyrights and theft, it has legitimate logic because what is being stolen is an exact copy of what we made. Whoever made this car did not make a copy, they made their own version. We also have not seen the creator of the SL version claim that his is the model from the game, or any claims of affiliation with the game. It is perfectly legal for him to create a replica of a car or almost anything, as long as he does not use any trademarked material. That vehicle is most likely not trademarked, hence, no infringement.

Maybe LL went overboard with the tutorial and now every1 thinks they are IP experts. Oh, I'm not saying I'm an expert, but I can easily look up the words copyright, Intellectual Property, and trademark.

As creators in a digitally copyable world, we should all be happy that now our creations can be created in a format that has much better safeguards for copyright theft.

[Jenni Darkwatch]

Actually, a design can be protected. For a recent case, look up Apple suing Samsung. And that's a case involving about the most generic design I've ever seen - Apples iPad.

[Nacy Nightfire]

Jenni, I can't seem to find any reference to Apple winning the lawsuit.  If this has been decided in the courts, I'd love a link to any info about the case being decided.   I guess anyone can sue, but they may not actually win.

And what I read so far,  Samsung countersued, but in April dropped the case for tactical reasons for defending their case going forward.

[Deej Kasshiki]

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Jacki Silverfall wrote:

To this thread. What was meant as a joke, which yes I can see the irony I can also see the underlying implications to start another stolen mesh is entering the grid thread. Ha ha yes that was cute Ishtara.

But indeed it did start the scare of this happening. Which as stated has been happening in Sl for some time it's just meshes turn.

The attacks on some of the posts is in my opinion uncalled for and unnecessary. EVERYONE has the right to post their opinion here. It is no ones business to tell them how they should post or make fun of them in the process by taking words out of context.

And ya know what? LL does count on us to do their policing, also their customer service. See the Answer thread. We help more people than their own staff.

Most people in this post have it in for Mesh, Well to bad. It's here deal with it. It's the future learn or... Don't learn. 

As far as someone not having a store here or inworld means nothing! I mean what the blank does that have to do with the price of tea in China. It's just knit picking. Maybe, just maybe they will have a store.

And frankly I've been to some of the stores that people have here. I can see why some would be apprehensive about mesh coming. I have a little store that makes things everyone can make. But it's for fun. And if your counting on your income to support your tiers or sims or whatever, forever. That's just not good business sense. Things change you have to change with it. Or at least a back up plan.

Now tear me up!

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Most people in this thread have it in for mesh? What??

Even if this were the case it would be naive in the extreme to believe that after all the money and resources that the Lab has invested in mesh that anything said in these forums would have any bearing on anything but, having been in SL for 5 years now I've seen time and time again that legitimate resident concerns have been routinely brushed aside. From the creation of Zindra, to open sims, to the courting of businesses to the development of Viewer 2 the Lab has consistently ignored customer feedback and proceeded with whatever plan they're pursuing at the time, releasing it incomplete or poorly implemented, then surprised when many of the very issues pointed out to them beforehand appear.

People seem to feel that residents who speak up are "Linden haters", or anti-progress Luddites afraid of change. This is incorrect. We speak out because we very much care about the future of SL. We want LL and their flagship creation to succeed. Believe me, I have far better things to do than have internet arguments with strangers over a damned game.

It seems that anyone who voices any opinion or concern contrary to the lollipops, rainbows and ponies view are immediately viewed with suspicion or as "disloyal" in some way. That's the real shame here.

This resident, while having a tough skin, has gotten to the point of being tired of being called names and beating his head against an immovable wall. Good luck to you all.

(Grammar edit)

[Ishtara Rothschild]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Sorry, but this is most likely not an infringement in anyway, nor is it illegal.

#1 - Is the model the exact same model as in GT whatever?

Nope, not even close. Major Fail here on whether it is "illegal".

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There are some minor changes, but the similarities are striking. I see many distinctive details that are unlikely to be sculpted in the exact same way by two different people.

 

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#2 - Can a car shape or fashion clothing be trademarked or copyrighted?

Nope!!! Fail again.

 

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There are no cars and fashion items in SL. 3D vehicles and clothing textures are artistic digital creations, which can of course be copyrighted. In fact, the designer automatically has a basic copyright from the moment of creation, although registering a copyright in addition has some advantages (such as the ability to sue for damages in case of a copyright infringement).

You might as well say that animations can't be copyrighted because they're just body postures and dance moves, which people can't legally own in RL. A digital creation is different from the real thing. A 3D model of a car is essentially the same as a painting or an illustration of a car.

 

PS: Car designs in RL can be protected too. You appear to be a bit misinformed there. So-called design patents can protect everything from the shape of a coke bottle over the design of a sneaker, to the form of car chassis. And of course the company logo and model name can also be trademarked in addition.

Only fashion items have a special copyright-exempt status, and only in the USA. The rationale is that clothing is usually a utilitarian item with very limited design possibilites (there are only so many ways to design a pair of pants). This only applies to the cut and form though! Cloth patterns can be design patented, so it is indeed possible to violate an IP right (in this case a patent) by copying a dress. But as I said, this only applies to RL clothing. Digital creations are copyrighted from the moment of creation, supposing that they are sufficiently unique and detailed.

 

PPS: Why so hostile? :matte-motes-bored:

[Ishtara Rothschild]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Maybe LL went overboard with the tutorial and now every1 thinks they are IP experts. Oh, I'm not saying I'm an expert, but I can easily look up the words copyright, Intellectual Property, and trademark.

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I think you need to read some more about this topic. You're basically suggesting that all vehicles and clothing items in SL can be legally copied and resold, which is patently wrong.  

[Gavin Hird]

Apple is winning in Gerrmany and Australia where the legislation is different from the US. Samsung has withdrawn their tablet product from the Australian market and they have been blocked from marketing the same products in Germany.

As someone said above, LL will probably be taken to court directly rather than the individual if major players starts to see this as a threath. 

Now, for the individual resident, they are liable to the local legislation in your country of residence where legilsaion may or may not be in support of LL's TOS. 

[Medhue Simoni]

I disagree. You are speculating. The real questions are: Is the model a copy? Is the design patented or trademarked? Both of the answers are, most likely, no. Can huge corporations design a box and try to patent it? Well, of course, something similar happens almost on a daily basis. This does not mean they get the trademark or patent.

 

I'm not hostile. What I see is histerical speculation on an item. No1 here knows what things are actually trademarked and what things are not, so you can't say what is an infringement and what is not. Lots of people think everything is an IP infringement, when they are not. The DMCA process works the way it does, because "only" the IP holder can know for sure if something is an infringement. Even they, can only speculate, which is why these things end up going to court. We are talking about interpretations of "laws", which are likely not laws at all, but rather ordinances or treaties that many countries/states agree to.

As far as animations, It has been argued that motion capture can be trademarked. There are 2 reasons why it could be. The first reason is that is could be interpretted as a piece of art. An example would be a choreographed dance animation. The 2nd reason an animation could be trademarked is that no 2 motion capture can be the same. You could have 10 million people all try to create the same motion capture and they would all be very different. This being the case tho, motion capture does not really need a trademark, as any motion capture animation that looks exactly the same would be a copyright violation already.

 

[Jacki Silverfall]

Deej, I to get tired and I'm tired of the sky is falling because mesh is here.

I want it to succeed also. I was just saying that hey it's here deal with it. It's not going anywhere, Ya know?. And wasn't pointing fingers at  or calling anyone names.

Please don't go, we can pound our heads on a wall together.