Beauty Batriani Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I'm trying to figure out why the Viewer 2 and 3 viewers are so user un-friendly. I understand that everything had to be re-coded for mesh and all, but the UI should have been left alone. It's like Linden Labs went to their programmers and said "Make the crappiest User Interface you can possibly make."PLEASE please please make some kind of upgrade or download so we can have the same UI as Viewer One, or Phoenix. Otherwise I know you will be losing many players. Mesh is great, but it isn't worth the hassle of having to deal with such a bad UI.Can I get an Amen, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deej Kasshiki Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Rather than throw any more gas on a fire I'll just say that v2's UI was primarily created by an outside firm comprised of people who had never used SL or only used it very casually as a prerequisite for the project. The numerous questionable and downright annoying decisions they made, in an apparent effort to make the viewer look and behave more like a web browser friendly to new users, make sense when viewed in that context. I'm certainly the last person to defend any of those decisions (and my numerous posts on v2's deficiencies will attest to that) but just trying to give a little historical perspective as to why it is what it is. And yes, it does need to be revisited. Badly. ETA- Nice attitude from a community "helper" btw. Just because you're jaded and tired of the "wars" doesn't mean this poster's opinion is invalid or that she's not entitled to voice it. No wonder people have such a low opinion of SL across the web and why so many people have left these forums in droves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suella Ember Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Did I fall into a wormhole and get transported 12 months into the past?! :smileysurprised: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishtara Rothschild Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Suella Ember wrote: Did I fall into a wormhole and get transported 12 months into the past?! :smileysurprised: Nope. LL still didn't fix the UI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Lindman Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Sorry only 1/2 of one here too, for while I agree with you that the LL V2-3 is a pain I also agree with Cin. LL isn't going divert from their chosen direction. Luckily Kirsten's Viewer presents a more workable version and Firestorm, when finished will be as popular as Phoenix since they are polling people as to what features are wanted (how's that for revolutionary. Listening to customers??), so go with the TPVs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Torgeson Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I'd say get used to it. After using viewer 1 for 6 years, i was pleased to get a more updated UI, even if its not as simple to use, and did take a bit more work to get comfy with. LL has made a LOT of changes that have improved useability of V2,V3 already, since it was first released. I think that if more people would have supported it and tried to encourage more positive improvements instead of jumping off onto something mimicking V1, because that was easier, it would have encouraged even more improvements by now. I wouldn't want to go back to the old viewer or anything that even tried to look like it. That would be like going back to the '50's after living thru the 90's! You might hate cell phones because they are too complicated to use, but would you do without them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keli Kyrie Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 You do know you can change you User Interface using Starlight Skins, don't you? You can even get rid of the sidebar. This is Viewer 3 using Starlight.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea Malibu Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Amen to that. Where the problem I see is, that they do not create an open platform nor encourage feedback from users on their beta's. All the information about their beta's they do from a purely statistical position of data. When you see other MMO beta's what you get are users who are invited and then asked to give their opinions. As of the past few years, LL could care less about our opinions and at this point, with their new CEO, they had committed to do this but we have to see any of this taking place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beauty Batriani Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 Well, first off to the person who blasted me up at the top... I have been in SL for about two years. When Viewer 2 came out, I tried it. It was ungodly horrible. I went to Emerald, then Phoenix, etc., and got spoiled on their viewers. These were people that actually got what a good interface should look like, so I stayed with them as long as I possibly could. I kept hearing news saying that "You have to use viewer 2 after mesh comes out" and this made me cringe. I tried Viewer 2 again. I tried Phoenix Firestorm. I even tried Dolphin. Even with online tutorials on how to make viewer 2 look like viewer one, I still hated it, and went back to Phoenix. Now that I 'have' to use Viewer 2, I find myself getting angrier every time I log on. I will try to play as best as I can, but after a few minutes it's like playing some kind of horrible version of the game, and I find myself logging off in disgust. I will try to stick with it as long as I possibly can, but unless someone can come out with a better 3rd party viewer, I will be done with SL. I know several others who think the same. And it's a shame, because SL has always been the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deej Kasshiki Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Before you give up try taking a look at Henri Beauchamp's Cool VL Viewer. There's a thread about it posted here. Henri has managed to get the v2/3 rendering engine to work with a v1 client that keeps the familiar UI. I've tried it and it works very well. Maybe I should get to be a "helper" since I'm actually encouraging people to, you know, stay in SL and not leave angry and bad mouth the game some more...? Just thinking out loud here... :smileyhappy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beauty Batriani Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 Thanks for the tip. And yes, I agree about the 'helper.' I notice she now deleted her post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakura Rajal Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 i don't discourage people from using v2/3 (whatever the new thing is now) but i've used v1 since 2008 and i'm used to it. i've been on a third party viewer (emerald first, then phoenix/ragegast/singlarity) for nearly 2.5 of my three years on second life. do i hate v2? yeah i despise the UI i think it sucks and is hard to handle. it gives me a headache every time i use it. can i use it if i have to? yeah, but i still choose v1. yeah its not as "pretty" but it works for me (plus mesh isn't on my high list... even as a content creator in SL its nothing i'm looking into any time soon.) i like most of the features that v2 has. i personally have nothing against the features and such i just don't like the UI. again this is just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marigold Devin Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I agree with you. About V2 and V3 interface. It's not user friendly, although it is greatly improved since a year ago,and I think will continue to improve, as the developers continue to tweak it all. If it's any consolation, the Linden people have to use the official viewer, as opposed to the rather marvellous third party viewers we have the option of using, and they're not automatically taking to it any more than the regular residents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristizia Demonista Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Then they better come up with something that let's the User CHOOSE which interface he/she want's to use. Otherwise people like you stay in SL and all who are used to (dare i say LIKE) the new interface will leave. (Not an acceptable option, imo) I like Viewer 2 (or 3) and will definatly NOT use anything like V 1! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoki Enoch Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I think Viewer 2 is a great tool for finding out who the true noobs are. They are the ones who use it. The false noobs use anything other than Viewer 2. That is about the only good thing about Viewer 2 though. Ya gotta keep your eye on the false noobs ya know, and the Lab makes it possible.:smileytongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeWillian Wylie Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Can we move on to todays or tomorrows or next weeks thing the Lindens do that annoys ya'll this is dead and gone....I personally find this UI no less crappy then the previous UI and actually easier to explain to NOOB's then the old UI...apples oranges...it is what it is...seriously there are new chnages to be hating on...SMDH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canoro Philipp Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Linden Lab is not going to make a viewer 1 interface to satisfy the residents that prefer it, instead, they added a special rule that viewer 1 based third party viewers will not be blocked from access, letting third party developers provide enhancements for the residents that prefer viewer 1, and continue developing features for users that prefer the new interface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osprey Therian Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 The only thing I am truly unhappy with is V2/3's way of handling its derendering when machinimatographers need it to disappear. V1.xx is simply invisible but still functions, V2/3 is not there/doesn't function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deej Kasshiki Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Holy hell what's with the people who take it so personally when anyone says v2 ain't all rainbows and ponies and lollipops? You think it's perfecto, swell. Use it and enjoy. Why is it so hard to accept that a major portion of the userbase (over half) prefers something else and isn't cowed into keeping quiet about it? No need to come into these threads spewing hate by telling residents to GTFO, build their own software and all that other nonsense. It would be one thing if someone was deliberately spreading patently false information and you wanted to "set the record straight" but, this is someone's opinion and as such just as valid as yours (especially when they can provide legitimate examples as to what they see as flaws in design). Did you guys forget that Philip, Esbee, Q and now Rodvik Linden all basically apologized for the lack of resident input during v2 development and the major flaws that occurred as a result? Or are they just "haters" too? You guys want tolerance and choice? How about practicing what you preach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Uriza Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Tristizia Demonista wrote: Then they better come up with something that let's the User CHOOSE which interface he/she want's to use. They do. It's called "fork the code and make your own UI" and preferably "submit a patch back to the Lindens." The viewer's open source: If you're complaining that it sucks, and not doing anything about it, you're part of your own problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canoro Philipp Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 you are being unfair to the people that like the new interface. if negative opinions about a viewer are valid, positive opinions are too. you are using extreme terms, and when you use extreme terms, you lose credibility. like "when anyone says v2 ain't all rainbows and ponies and lollipops" making it sound like if someone dont say something negative about the new inteface that person thinks that v2 is all rainbows and ponies and lollipops. why viewer 2 users have to be cowed into keeping quiet about it? its great that people that want to share a positive experience about it can make as many posts as they want in any viewer related thread. "No need to come into these threads spewing hate" who is "spewing hate" here? if what you call "spewing hate" is to say a negative comment, should these comments be categorized too into "spewing hate"? "Make the crappiest User Interface you can possibly make." "UI so crappy" "LL V2-3 is a pain" "It was ungodly horrible." "this made me cringe." "I still hated it," "I find myself getting angrier" "logging off in disgust." "do i hate v2? yeah i despise the UI i think it sucks" "You guys want tolerance and choice? How about practicing what you preach?" this question goes for you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaiya Arnold Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Baloo Uriza wrote: Tristizia Demonista wrote: Then they better come up with something that let's the User CHOOSE which interface he/she want's to use. They do. It's called "fork the code and make your own UI" and preferably "submit a patch back to the Lindens." The viewer's open source: If you're complaining that it sucks, and not doing anything about it, you're part of your own problem. Which of these chooses are easily accessible to people who cannot fork the code, make their own UI or submit a patch back to the lindens? You know the kind of average internet user that LL has realised SL's continued viability relies on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beauty Batriani Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 If you don't think viewer 2 sucks, then please tell me what you did to get it to un-suck. I know you can disconnect the tabs from the side bar, but they are still a pain to set up compared to the old viewer. How do I get the viewer to save the changes I've made after I log out, so I don't have to keep resetting it when I log back on? Why do I log on and find my hair attached to my crotch? How do I get my chat set up like it used to be instead of having to have several chat windows open? Why did LL have to make everything so big and clunky so that my screen is covered up with junk? I can shrink some of it, but it still to me looks like a 5 year old's pencil. You know, the big fat pencils they give to the kids? That's what the UI reminds me of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keli Kyrie Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Beauty Batriani wrote: If you don't think viewer 2 sucks, then please tell me what you did to get it to un-suck. I know you can disconnect the tabs from the side bar, but they are still a pain to set up compared to the old viewer. It is more then disconnecting with starlight the side bar is gone, totally. The inventory and everything else opens the way it did in Viewer 1. How do I get the viewer to save the changes I've made after I log out, so I don't have to keep resetting it when I log back on? If you use the Starlight Skins the windows will be there when you log back in. Why do I log on and find my hair attached to my crotch? This sounds like you are having a issue with your cache. How do I get my chat set up like it used to be instead of having to have several chat windows open? It is a setting. Just change it to view IMs in tabs. Why did LL have to make everything so big and clunky so that my screen is covered up with junk? I can shrink some of it, but it still to me looks like a 5 year old's pencil. You know, the big fat pencils they give to the kids? That's what the UI reminds me of. You don't have to have any of it there. Just look at the first picture. You can complain all you want but you are doing yourself a grave injustice if you don't at least try the Starlight Skins. Really what could it hurt to try? http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_Skins/Starlight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Uriza Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Anaiya Arnold wrote: Baloo Uriza wrote: Tristizia Demonista wrote: Then they better come up with something that let's the User CHOOSE which interface he/she want's to use. They do. It's called "fork the code and make your own UI" and preferably "submit a patch back to the Lindens." The viewer's open source: If you're complaining that it sucks, and not doing anything about it, you're part of your own problem. Which of these chooses are easily accessible to people who cannot fork the code, make their own UI or submit a patch back to the lindens? You know the kind of average internet user that LL has realised SL's continued viability relies on? Both. Commission a freelance coder. Unemployment's high right now so you can probably commission it relatively inexpensively on Amazon's Mechanical Turk or bribe a friend who codes with beer and doritos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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