Builders, content creators and V2.

[anna Acanthus]

     I'm creating this thread out of interest to know if there are any creators and builders out there who actually manage to work with V2.

     They are the backbone of sl economy, without them there would be no SL . However their needs seem to have been totally ignored with V2 devellopement : (*Void Singer " .....but the extra clicks seem to be mostly constrained to build and upload actions.... it seems they optimized the rest for casual users in their desire to simply that experience....")

     Many of my friends are creators or who like myself spend most of their SL time sculpting their environnement and not one of them uses V2 or Firestorm although they would like to acces mesh and certain new functions if they had a stable and manageable viewer they could work with.

*would be gratefull for your thoughts, workarounds, comments in general...

 

[Catwise Yoshikawa]

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anna Acanthus wrote:

     I'm creating this thread out of interest to know if there are any creators and builders out there who actually manage to work with V2.

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Interesting post. I would also want to know and to have advice to use viwer 2 (3 now), so i'll follow this to read and learn ^^

I mainly use phoenix now or sl viewer 1, but I tried several times viewer 2, (also was trying in beta to help fix bugs or whatever before was released). Anyway I don't like for build. There are many things I don't like, but how IM works (always having text on right bottom of the screen), notifications and sidebar, get on my nerves ^^' I tried to force me several times to use viewer 2, but I just can't. For one thing or other, always end tired, crashing or waiting for something that should work faster that keeps freezing

So right now I only use it for test things.

Yesterday I was with viewer 3 trying a rigged mesh. I was editing appearance to check how it looks with mesh clothes, wanted to open inventory, and for that I just click inventory icon on the sidebar cause didn't want to save changes and viewer automatically save changes and close edit appearance. So not only I can't work with those 2 things at a time, but it did save something I didn't wanted to save 

[Miyo Darcy]

I also have a bigger friendlist on SL and I can tell you that no one is using any V2 based Viewer. Most of them are still underway with Phoenix Viewer. BUt the real horror is that these Viewers are soon disabled from the servers.

As I own a 3d application and wanted to check out mesh import.. I gave V2 a chance. But I must say it is the biggest pain of software I ever used. There is in fact no usability and as you said they missed it to give us creators tools we need.

One simple example I miss pretty much (and you know what? that is a basic feature in every 3d application and available in Phoenix Viewer!)... I miss it to be able to rotate linked objects at axis on root. The option is called "Edit axis at root" in Phoenix Viewer.

Really... tell me one reason why LL is unable to add this simple feature to V2? Im just schocked. Instead of those really importend features they heck out stuff and features like "Give your avatar crazy ROFL-LOL-RESIDENT-LOVEGIRL-KIDDY-LMAO-hAcKeR1333-POWNER-NAMES". That was importend? All I know is that I now see dozend of pretty crap kiddy and wannabe hacker names out there on the SL Grid.

So rotating an object axis depending on which kind of linked set you clicked, seems to be an irrelevant feature for LL.

Today.. I still think that Phoenix Viewer is the best Viewer for creators. They at least added features for creators. Very helpful features. V2? I get pains by using that Viewer. I dont see usabilty there.. I also dont find new great features. ALl I see is that they messed up every single function you can find in SL. Disorganized Viewer..defently illogical UI and at least mega huge sidebars which will teach you to hate a software.

However I could write here so much... but if I do or not.. Linden Labs hold on there plans and anyway wont listen to the majority.

But yes... I am pretty much sure the creators in SL are the backbone.. and LL is not far way from bursting this backbone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Void Singer]

by and large TPV's are aimed at power users, people that want or need functional extensions to the basics offfered by LL. I don't think that'll ever change. LL has incorporated some of these additions over time, such as chat translation, external script editor access, appearance height, etc... but TPV's will always add more, although they are a little behind in the new features introduced by LL

LL is aimed at the common user experience, which is casual users and consumers

while I think there are some UI changes that could greatly improve the V2+ interface, I certainly don't expect LL to incorporate every little tweak added by TPV's (no matter how much I depend on some of those features)

 

as to the OP's questions, I can only suggest either swapping between the vaniLLa viewer and whatever TPV offers features you need untill those TPV's duplicate newer features you need from the vaniLLa line. currently Kirstens has mesh support, although I don't know if it has other TPV features that content creators depend on. Firestorm should have support for mesh soonish, and seems to have all the extra features that help content creators.

[Chronometria]

I use viewer 2 (now 3) and build quite happily. The only bad time i had was when a bug meant i couldnt count prims. That was fixed with the next update that came along.

[Catwise Yoshikawa]

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Chronometria wrote:

I use viewer 2 (now 3) and build quite happily. The only bad time i had was when a bug meant i couldnt count prims. That was fixed with the next update that came along.

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Hummmm. Right now you are the only one who reply here saying you build in viewer 2, so could I ask what you build? Build is the main thing you do in SL? Did you try other viewers? Sure I have more questions for you, but I'm still sleepy ^^

[Templus Carrasco]

"LL is aimed at the common user experience, which is casual users and consumers" ~anna Acanthus

 

       I believe anna just hit the nail on the thead with the blunt impact fastening device.  I would be willing to bet that content creators, builders and those talented people make up 10% or less of the sl world.  They are over represented in forums such as this because they are the most involved with and active in sl and interested in learning all they can about the medium.

      Sl probably understands enough of the underlying psychology of the medium that they can take for granted these users are "hooked" and will find a suitable TPV that will meet their needs satisfactorily if not perfectly.  Probably why TPV's are permitted in the first place.

      Yet for their base to grow they need to appeal to the newer and they hope younger people entering sl and give them an experience they can relate to instantly...because it is a short attention span theater generation and they have to hook them quickly...with things like facebook friendly profiles and keeping thing all a twitter.

      The latest results show that this approach is having some success for them as far as user sing up rates...modest but still growth instead of stagnation.  (Refer to previous Quarterly Reports)

      Not a business major or anything...but If I were analyzing this as their business model for the future I would say that is the philosophy behind Viewer 2.   

[anna Acanthus]

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Templus Carrasco wrote:

"LL is aimed at the common user experience, which is casual users and consumers" ~anna Acanthus

     Well in fact it was Void who hit the nail on the head again, not me



     Many of that 10% fought tooth and nail and for years to make V1 an acceptable and workable viewer and made SL a visually enjoyable and user friendly experience for  the other 90% to play, lolol and grief around in. And as for them being over represented on this forum i've just realized that as well as being the backbone of SL economy they are also the reason that there actually is a forum by contributing massively to the knowledge base amongst other things. they even kindly take the time to politely answer such threads as " OMG my hair won't rez…", "HYALP !! ah wanna look like Brad Pitt … "etc. etc. It's normal that the tech section is mostly contributed to by tech minded people .



      Instead of hiring and paying god knows how much to a seemingly incompetent outside C° who made an even further colossal mess of V2 it would have been far more intelligent to involve some of the highly efficient TPV developers and the numbrous talented coders and builders present in SL in the construction of a new viewer, and we would now have an SL tailored made viewer which all users would find easy to initiate with and enjoy. (Far from that, i doubt if they even took much into consideration the ideas of even the remaining original LL owners although apparently these have done their best to be seen to support the brand new shiny decision makers.)  

Result  :  the 10s of 1000,s of potential new players who soon gave up in disgust and desperation when confronted with V2 or the basic viewer would still be with us now and contributing to economy growth. I doubt that if we were still on a V1-like interface the latest results would show less growth than they now do. 

      Anyhow we know that these will provide us with what we need and Firestorm will surely end up being as user friendly and functionable as Phœnix. It's just that this  really oughtn't to be necessary, but there you go … and these developers are yet another reason that SL is still alive.

[Miyo Darcy]

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Templus Carrasco wrote:

"LL is aimed at the common user experience, which is casual users and consumers" ~anna Acanthus

 

       I believe anna just hit the nail on the thead with the blunt impact fastening device.  I would be willing to bet that content creators, builders and those talented people make up 10% or less of the sl world.  They are over represented in forums such as this because they are the most involved with and active in sl and interested in learning all they can about the medium.

      Sl probably understands enough of the underlying psychology of the medium that they can take for granted these users are "hooked" and will find a suitable TPV that will meet their needs satisfactorily if not perfectly.  Probably why TPV's are permitted in the first place.

      Yet for their base to grow they need to appeal to the newer and they hope younger people entering sl and give them an experience they can relate to instantly...because it is a short attention span theater generation and they have to hook them quickly...with things like facebook friendly profiles and keeping thing all a twitter.

      The latest results show that this approach is having some success for them as far as user sing up rates...modest but still growth instead of stagnation.  (Refer to previous Quarterly Reports)

      Not a business major or anything...but If I were analyzing this as their business model for the future I would say that is the philosophy behind Viewer 2.   

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But then it is still not a problem to make an hiden option.. or something like an advanced option which can be enabled so that the viewer has more features for content creators. Something like the dev menu which is already hidden in the viewer. Content creators would find out how to enable a more advanced version. And the usual SL crowd could just use the default viewer.

I still dont see a problem here. In my opinion LL should catter all its users. Exspecialy now when we are forced to use V2 as long as differend things arent in any TPV. They want to force us to use V3 and then they can also take care about those who are the backbone of SL.. the content creators. But they dont.

 

[Void Singer]

many of us asked for an advanced mode more suitable to creators and power users.... their answer was to create a basic mode in which most everything was inaccessible and worked entirely different =(

several more of us where originally happy when we heard that V2 was supposed to have a "more browser-like experience" because we thought it would be like a modern browser... easily skinnable, and the ability to add/move/rearrange elements like modern browsers do. and were horrified to find that it turned into IE 2.0 with everything locked into place and no customization at all. sadly even the TPV's haven't picked up this desire (although to be fair there's a ton of coding involved). Firestorm is pusing closest to it, but they are nowhere near close yet.

[Opensource Obscure]

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Miyo Darcy wrote:

BUt the real horror is that these Viewers are soon disabled from the servers.

 

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That's false.

Please find an official statement from Linden Lab supporting your statement, then come back with a link.

The real horror is to see false information being spread around causing fear and confusion.

[Opensource Obscure]

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Catwise Yoshikawa wrote:

I tried several times viewer 2, (also was trying in beta to help fix bugs or whatever before was released). Anyway I don't like for build. There are many things I don't like, but how IM works (always having text on right bottom of the screen), notifications and sidebar, get on my nerves ^^' I tried to force me several times to use viewer 2, but I just can't. 

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All that stuff can be configured. Why don't you set your Preferences? 

You can detach elements from the sidebar, disable notifications popups, disable user icons, etc.

Many Preferences have been added to the official SL Viewer in the last months. I see many users are still unaware of that. 

[Void Singer]

unfortunately detaching sidebar panels is still not what it should be, as they like to spontaneously revert, can't be actually removed (at best you minimize them), and even when the don't spontaneously revert, every time you log in they are maximized.... the other issues as noted do have preference solutions