small in real life but not allowed in SL?

[Dollquet]

I am a newbie and yet I found out something really quick. That small avi's are automatically considered a child avitar even though I specify my age and always say "I am not a child." I am a 20 year old male, 5'1 and 97 pounds. Yet I get pestered for having a "Child" avitar. I wanted my avitar to be similar to me in real life. I didn't want an insainly tall/huge avitar, it's just not me. I think a child avitar would be considered as someone who is acting like a child and says "Hey I am a 14 year old, wanna smex? :D" Seriously I don't do that. I state my age, state that I am actually short and skinny, yet get threatened I am going to get reported. What do I have to prove to show I am just a small fry in real life? Or should I just avoid places like that who assume I am a child? Because thats what I have been doing the past few days I have been to SL. I just leave the area. Is that my best option for now?

 

[Luschious Nightfire]

So many shorty's complain about the same issue.  The problem does not lie with you, but how the other persons percieve you. Yes, you may state your true age, yes you may be short in RL, but if you are still being percieved as a child, it will put others off, cause that is how they see you.  On the flip side, you may find a partner that does not have an issue with your look, but may still be aprehensive to be seen doing adult acts with you, in the fear of being reported for child play themselves.

If you are dead set on being short, then take a closer look at your avy.  Make sure that your proportions are correct. A fully grown male will have a smaller head in relation to the rest of his body as opposed to a child of similar size.  An adult male's chest will also be larger in comparison to the rest of his body compared to a child of similar size.  Get the proportions right, and the chances of you being mistaken for a child will be less.

[Dollquet]

Thanks for the tip
My char's head is small and I did state my claim to some clubs and they let me stay which is fine by me. But I totally agree with the pedophile problem. Not like I would do it with a pedo any way (Has a pedo promblem in real life too)
I would be my fault if I let someone touch my avi in such a way just because it was small. But seing how I don't do that sort of thing with strangers *Shivers*
But yes, nooooooo pedos. I guess it is their fault seeing how so many people seem touchy about the small avi's

[Syo Emerald]

Its simple, but maybe a beard would help, besides trying to dress in adultlooking clothes and the right bodyproportions.

[Kelli May]

Getting your account age-verified would go some way to proving you are an adult, but it wouldn't do much to stop the comments and AR threats. To some people it's only the avatar that counts. I'd suggest much of what the other posters have said: dress like an adult, look like an adult and act like an adult. Have an adult male skin - it doesn't have to be a beard, but a little stubble might help. I notice from your profile that you've only filled in your First Life tab. Maybe you could state that you are an adult avatar in your main profile too? Not everyone reads profiles, but even fewer check the First Life tab.

I agree it's ridiculous that you have to jump through hoops to get this point across, but unfortunately that's how it is at the moment.

[Alazarin Mondrian]

Dollquet, part of your [and many other avatars'] problems lie with the fact that SL avatar heights tend towards the unrealistically tall. The maximum height for male avatars would equate to 7 feet tall in RL! And, as you can already guess, alot of men in SL ramp up their height sliders to 100 followed by women who, not wanting to be left behind, play catch-up. The result being that SL is populated by giants, frankenbarbies and hulk wannabes. You get used to it after a while.

 

My SL avatar is approximately the same height as my RL player. A fairly average height in RL, but on the short side in SL. It used to bug me a bit years ago but I've long since stopped even thinking about it. My advice: don't let the height issue get in the way of enjoying your Second Life. Make your avatar as you want and don't get bothered if other people get bent out of shape about your avatars' height. Remember that's their problem, not yours.

[Syo Emerald]

Thinks more a problem when you have male avatar than having a female. A female avatar is easier to be seen as an adult and many men like a female avatar that is smaller than their own avatar....it more a thing about being called cute instead of too short.

[Hayley Spore]

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Alazarin Mondrian wrote:

Dollquet, part of your [and many other avatars'] problems lie with the fact that SL avatar heights tend towards the unrealistically tall. The maximum height for male avatars would equate to 7 feet tall in RL!

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There's a post by Penny Patton here on the forums about scale in SL, it's well worth the read. http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Building-and-Texturing-Forum/A-Matter-of-Scale-How-scale-affects-content-creation-and-land/td-p/943101

 

I think the real problem is the defaults. As Penny wrote, "starter avatars are shownb to be around 6'3" for the women, and up to about 6'6"-6'7" (About 2m tall!) for the men. "

 

[Luschious Nightfire]

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Alazarin Mondrian wrote:

Dollquet, part of your [and many other avatars'] problems lie with the fact that SL avatar heights tend towards the unrealistically tall. The maximum height for male avatars would equate to 7 feet tall in RL! And, as you can already guess, alot of men in SL ramp up their height sliders to 100 followed by women who, not wanting to be left behind, play catch-up. The result being that SL is populated by giants, frankenbarbies and hulk wannabes. You get used to it after a while.

 

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I must confess I am a frakenbarbie myself..... * hangs her head in shame

but for the very reasons you have mentioned, in RL it is very seldom that someone is taller than me, so to replicate this in SL I too have to be about 7 feet tall.  (although I have never checked my Avy's height, so I have no idea)

[Ariel Vuissent]

With all the talk now about "frankenbarbies" and how nice it would be for people to have "realistic heights," I still don't think there's anything wrong with being unrealistically tall in SL as opposed to RL. It's a fantasy world. I also don't think there's anything wrong with having a short avi, or trying to replicate your RL self. I'll admit to being a "frankenbarbie" myself, but I quite like my avi and haven't been able to replicate her proportions in a shorter form to my satisfaction. Not to mention when I've tried, my favorite clothing items have been so long I could see maybe half; the rest went through the floor.

To the OP: If you like having a short avi, I'd go with what others have said: Act like an adult, talk like an adult, dress like an adult, and put in your profile on the main page, not just the first life page, that you are an adult. I wonder if there's a group you could join with a tag something like "NOT a child! Just short!" or something similar. Perhaps you could create one. Or a titler, though some find those annoying.

You really shouldn't have to jump through hoops just to be allowed into adult places with a short avi, but from the owner's side, they really don't want to lose all the time and money they've invested in their place because some idiot reports them for allowing child avis. SL is heavily skewed towards tall avis; and beyond that, I don't think it's possible to get too much below 5'1" in SL in the first place. I created a "realistic" shape the other day, and by the time I got her down to 5'7" I was at around 20 on the height slider.

Food for thought, anyways. End ramble.

[Dollquet]

Thank you all so much for helping a newbie understand yes. I read all of your posts and I feel much better already. I will take your advice and note that I am an adult in my profile as well. And thanks to you guys I feel comfortable about my avi's size. Your right, I should be able to enjoy the game, weather my avi is short or tall. A lot are very tall yes, but that is just the second life average and I should get use to it. I should also get use to the fact that most male avis are indeed "hulks" but I don't mind though. I will have fun in the game, I will also try and act responsibly while I am in adult areas with my friends only *No strangers for this camper*

[Hayley Spore]

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Ariel Vuissent wrote:

With all the talk now about "frankenbarbies" and how nice it would be for people to have "realistic heights," I still don't think there's anything wrong with being unrealistically tall in SL as opposed to RL.

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There isn't really, but if we were all say, a foot shorter, (and had lower cameras) we could make other things smaller too, allowing us to fit more into each sim than we currently do. That would use less prims too!

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Ariel Vuissent wrote:

With all the talk now about "frankenbarbies" and how nice it would be for people to have "realistic heights," I still don't think there's anything wrong with being unrealistically tall in SL as opposed to RL. It's a fantasy world. I also don't think there's anything wrong with having a short avi, or trying to replicate your RL self.

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Proportions.

The taller you are the more impossible it becomes to have proper proportions.

http://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/2011/06/15/getting-good-body-proportions-in-second-life/

The same can happen if you get too short - and is commonly seen on actual child AVs as they tend to use some particular deformed settings a bit different from just being 'short' in order to get 'extra short' as well as 'youthlike'.

 

 

[Marianne Little]

Ah, here is how you change your camera placement: http://pennycow.blogspot.com/2011/07/matter-of-perspective.html

I need to change it in viewer 3, I have used this since Penny posted it in July. But I am still 6'1, and in the official viewer I am 5'6 or was it 5'7? That is my comfort height. Going lower makes me feel "not right". 

To the OP: The height measurement in the official viewer is broken, in case you wonder what I am talking about.

I have seen very many small female avatars lately.  They all seem to have narrow eyes, grumpy mouth and very, very wide hips.  They reach up to my shoulders, so I wonder if short and angry is the new black? :smileysurprised: Maybe the male height will shrink a bit too, as dance animations and other animations will be "off" between so different heights.

[Jo Yardley]

At the entrance of our 1920s Berlin sim we have a 'realistic avatar' kit, put together with some of Penny her info and tips.

It will help you figure out how tall your avatar really is and you can send the info inside the kit to everyone calling you a kid.

I also have put a tab in my profile explaining that my avatar is 6ft and is thus not short or a kid.

 

Also dressing like an adult (a proper one in a suit, not like how many adults dress these days in rl with jeans and baseball cap, t-shirt, et) and growing a moustache also works

[Ishtara Rothschild]

Don't feel pressured to give in to some norm. There is no such norm when it comes to Second Life. As long as you don't look unmistakably prepubescent, you can design your avatar in any way you like. Height does not a child avatar make, and in most places, people won't care about your height. You merely had a run-in with one of the few paranoid moralizers, which are best ignored because they'll always find something to get hung up on.

[Melita Magic]

If you post a pic of your avatar it will be much easier to guess why they are thinking you're a child.

Even if short, an adult av should be obvious.

If they didn't read your profile before accusing, that's their fault.

[Hayley Spore]

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Marianne Little wrote:

Ah, here is how you change your camera placement: 

http://pennycow.blogspot.com/2011/07/matter-of-perspective.html

---

 

Thanks! Although I fixed my camera long ago, I'm referring again to the default settings. For a new user, the defaults leave them with an avi that is too tall and a camera that is too high.

[hope Antonelli]

I've been in SL for 4 (or 5) years now, I forget and back then i was one of very few avis that was under 6 feet tall. At about 5'3" on the rulers of the day I very seldom caught flack for my height but this was long before people started seeing pedofiles under every rock. There was one time I got kicked out for having what was perceived as a child avi, I just left and never gave them my business from that time on. (Which was their loss, I tend to be a shopaholic, especially in stores that have things i love) Over time my avi has had 18 shape changes, and her current height is about 5'6, which is still short. I made the change recently only because i found a post elsewhere on aesthetic proportions and such.I agree with an ealier post, there do seem to be more small avis now, which i think is a good trend. Not everyone wants to look like Conan the barbarian or Xena. I rp in Gor and i get joked about being so short but its mostly in fun, not "I'm going to report you if you dont change your looks". Make sure you dont act childlike, then stand your ground and let the idiotic comments slide off your back. Its your avi, your concept and frankly, none of their business how you represent yoursent. As I point out in my profile..I'm not short, I'm vertically challenged and you have your sliders all set to max.

[Penny Patton]

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Dollquet wrote:

I am a newbie and yet I found out something really quick. That small avi's are automatically considered a child avitar

 

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 The trend over the past few years has been towards smaller avatars, not for realism's sake so much as that since avatars can be any size from about 4' tall to 9' tall yet land is static in size, the larger your avatar is the smaller the land around you is.

 

 For landowners this means the larger your avatar, the less land you're getting for the money you pay out in tier.

 

 There's a growing number of sims that encourage or even require realistically sized avatars.

 

1920's Berlin, a faithful recreation of the time and place its named for.

The Island of Milk & Cream, a mature hangout featuring ushimimi/cowgirls as one of the primary themes.

Doomed Ship, a sci-fi/horror role-playing sim.

The Wastelands, a post-apocalyptic future world.

 

@Ariel Vuissent

 There's certainly no problem with being larger than life, you're quite right it's a virtual world and everyone should be able to enjoy their fantasy appearance.

 The problem is that Linden Lab starts people off with extremely oversized (and poorly proportioned) avatars. The size of the average SL starter avatar tends to range from 6'3"/191cm to 7'1"/216cm! Up until Viewer 2.1 Linden Lab also provided nothing in the appearance editor to tell people their height. Unfortunately, the height added in Viewer 2.1 was broken on release, showing a height that is actually about 6 inches (15cm) shorter than your avatar's actual height, which only adds to the confusion.

 These things are problems because, in addition to the land issue, it's like you say. People should be able to be the size they want. These problems force the majority of SL users into larger shapes, without their knowledge or consent. This creates problems like the fact that no one in SL can be a "giant" compared to the average avatar without using hacks and kludges to get around the fact that SL residents who think they're 6' tall are actually 8' tall.

 Someone who wants to be an 8' tall Imperial Space Marine won't be any taller than your average SL guy. A 9' tall minotaur or Na'vi will only be a head or two taller than the "Average Joe" in SL. This is limiting to their creativity and freedom to enjoy the fantasy look they choose.

 Above is a Sixth Sense Denotaur next to a human avatar scaled up to the common 8' size you see many men at.

Below is that same Denotaur next to a 6' tall human spaceman. Which image makes the Denotaur a larger, more imposing sight?

Then you get the social problems like the OP, Dollquet, ran into. Being harassed due to a problem LL created and continues to foster.

 On top of that, it's incredibly difficult to create a good looking shape from scratch, which is exactly what you need to do to scale down. The appearance editor lacks a lot of basic guides and tools in addition to the incorrect height it displays. I give away a realistically sized man and woman shape for free for those who want a little help.

 I also provide directions on how to improve SL's camera placement in an article I wrote explaining how the SL camera works. This aids a lot in exploring "built to scale" places like Berlin. Just scroll down until you see screenshots of SL control panels.

[Jesica Dragovar]

yeah I get the same, of course I do tend to compound it cause like you my avatar is  based on RL me and even though I'm 34 I still have freckles and braces, add in the fact that I  tend to wear my  hair in pigtales a lot and I can say  "I swear I'm over 18" all I want people are gonna think my avatar's underage

[Dana Hickman]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

The taller you are the more impossible it becomes to have proper proportions.

---

 

It would help if you include the whole truth, not just part of it. The farther away your AV is from starting default height in ANY direction, the more impossible it becomes to have proper proportions. The morph points for slider adjustments do not allow very tall AVs enough adjustment room on specific areas like hand and head size, as well as hip and arm length.. and so one can throw off proper proportion by electing to be too tall. The morph points also do not allow very short AVs any sense of proper proportion either, and that is due to the fact that the forearm, lower leg, and hip flex areas need to maintain a minimal thickness to be able to fold properly during animation.. and the height slider allows AV's to be shorter than that minimal thickness dictates. That results in midget or troll arms/lower legs, as well as hips with the thighs pushed too far up into them.

It only need be said that the height slider is not a full scale "grow or shrink" adjustment, so it's best not to think of it as one. It can only excessively lengthen or compact the neck, torso, leg, and arm lengths, and nothing else, and there is such a thing as too much in either direction for the mesh to handle properly.

[Penny Patton]

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Dana Hickman wrote:

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

The taller you are the more impossible it becomes to have proper proportions.

---

 

It would help if you include the

whole

truth, not just part of it. The farther away your AV is from starting default height in

ANY

direction, the more impossible it becomes to have proper proportions. 

---

 What I believe Pussycat is referring to is that odd skewing LL gave the women's arm length slider. At around 6' tall or so it actually becomes impossible to have arms long enough for your body because LL made women's arms substantially shorter than those on men. This issue is made worse by LL starting out new users with female avatars 6'3" and taller and the tendency towards larger avatars among most SL users.

 Women can maintain correct adult human proportions down until at least 4'11" tall (probably as short as 4'8"), and up to about 6'1" or so.

 Men have a wider range because LL gave them the ability to have longer arms, so it's not as difficult for them to maintain correct arm proportions with larger avatars (they have shorter legs than women, tho not so much that it becomes an issue).

 Contrary to what most people believe, the sliders do not represent an even or consistent distortion from the default models LL started with. Nor are the starter avatars LL provides representative of the default size and shape of the original models.

 You can find a more thorough write-up about the appearance editor and its quirks as a part of my article "A Matter of Proportion".

 Really, there's a lot of ridiculous issues surrounding the starter avatars, the mesh, the appearance editor and the whole topic of avatar sizes in SL. None of these issues should exist and it's just embarassing trying to explain them to new users or people who don't already use SL.

[Kylie Jaxxon]

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Dana Hickman wrote:

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

The taller you are the more impossible it becomes to have proper proportions.

---

 

It would help if you include the

whole

truth, not just part of it. The farther away your AV is from starting default height in

ANY

direction, the more impossible it becomes to have proper proportions. The morph points for slider adjustments do not allow very tall AVs enough adjustment room on specific areas like hand and head size, as well as hip and arm length.. and so one can throw off proper proportion by electing to be too tall. The morph points also do not allow very short AVs any sense of proper proportion

either

, and that is due to the fact that the forearm, lower leg, and hip flex areas need to maintain a minimal thickness to be able to fold properly during animation.. and the height slider allows AV's to be shorter than that minimal thickness dictates. That results in midget or troll arms/lower legs, as well as hips with the thighs pushed too far up into them.

It only need be said that the height slider is not a full scale "grow or shrink" adjustment, so it's best not to think of it as one. It can only excessively lengthen or compact the neck, torso, leg, and arm lengths, and nothing else, and there is such a thing as too much in either direction for the mesh to handle properly.

---

Dana, is this also true when you purchase a shape that is marketed as petite/short...the proportions are still off?

[Penny Patton]

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Kylie Jaxxon wrote:

Dana, is this also true when you purchase a shape that is marketed as petite/short...the proportions are still off?

---

 That can only be answered on a case by case basis.

 The problem is, most shapes you see in SL, from those provided by Linden Lab, to most of those sold by other residents, are made by people without a strong grasp of proportion or a good understanding of the appearance editor, so regardless of size they're often badly proportioned.

 It's impossible to tell whether a shape is properly proportioned unless the creator provides demos for you to try before purchasing or the vendor art they display is made to show off how well proportioned the shape is.