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Camis Lee

Mesh ?? and a squeek in the dark

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I was assaulted by a doughnut .. too funny. Who was obviously wearing the new MESH avie they vanish when you mute them YAY.. but not before I got told off about how us pheonix users are gonna get cut off and unable to log in along with some other really nasty commens ..... really??? ... ok .. I just want all you Mesh fans to think about something before you make all us Pheonix users soo mad we all leave .. I personally HATE 2.0... never even updated. Now theres a 3.0 for mesh.. ok.. Well its time for a secret . I own a sim and so do alot of us other 1.something users and when you ram MESH and all the other junk down our throats and LL looses yet another batch of sims cause they dont make this crap user friendly and they dont give a crap about the ones that are paying to keep the lights on and we refuse to pay the bills and they shut the lights off in this place .. well then you all will go... wow never saw that coming .. really not so smart! But hey thats my take you can shred it all you like I really dont care.

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Okay. But the Phoenix team can have a mesh viewer up soon, so no need to blow up like this. Cool VL already have a viewer 1 version that supports mesh, I read that just an hour ago. And maybe you were starting it, namecalling the "doughnut" avatar, who only gave you back what you were dishing out?

Just give up your sims, I can go other places.

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nahh I saw a doughnut and said so it wasn't abusive in anyway or at least it didnt start that way .. I think the Mesh fans are wanting their way at any cost ... and there is a cost. It looked like a doughnut  it was then that I was told off.. I certainly think calling somebody a doughnut and having them degrade you with insults to intelligence and sexuality among some other things is ummm over the top in my opinion. Regardless I find the mesh thing to be a little over the top at this point and its ridiculous that its being rammed down my throat I dont know what viewer your talking about the cool VL ?? I hope Pheonix comes up with something soon.

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youre gonna be loving mesh when Phoenix adds mesh capabilities to the viewer.

by the way, Phoenix is safe. viewer 1 is protected, it has an exception to the rule that the old viewers are gonna be blocked from accesing the grid, LL knows how important viewer 1 is for some users, so theres no plan to be blocked from access ever.

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Camis Lee wrote:

 

[snip]

... but not before I got told off about how us pheonix users are gonna get cut off and unable to log in ...

[snip]

... I personally HATE 2.0... never even updated ...

[snip]

... and when you ram MESH and all the other junk down our throats ...

[snip]

 


To make matters clear: Linden Lab has no plans whatsoever to block Phoenix nor any other V1 based viewer. Anything on the contrary what you might have heard is just misinformed rumour. What will happen is that as V2/V3 will have more and more new features they will be harder and harder to import to V1 viewers. So, those who insist on staying on old viewers just will not see all things right as V2 based viewer users will see them. The choice is yours naturally. If you so much hate the awkward V2 user interface, you are free to use V1 viewer as long as you wish. And by the way, nobody surely is not trying to "ram mesh and all the other junk" down your throat. You have the complete freedom to use old viewer, and not see mesh correctly,  if you so wish.

Anyway, some TPVs are trying to implement mesh code into V1 viewer. And finally, no need to get heated up due to mesh. It's just one more addition to make Second Life look nicer. :matte-motes-smile:

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Marianne Little wrote:

Okay. But the Phoenix team can have a mesh viewer up soon, so no need to blow up like this.

 


Canoro Philipp wrote:

youre gonna be loving mesh when Phoenix adds mesh capabilities to the viewer.

/me sighs

Here we go again. There will be no Phoenix viewer with mesh capabilities. Please stop consolidating Phoenix users with this kind of misinformation, they are right to be outraged. Not only does this send the wrong message to third party viewer users, it also gives Linden Lab a false impression.

Firestorm is not Phoenix, it's viewer 2 with a detachable side bar. People who hate the v2/3 UI hate Firestorm for all the same reasons. It's just another viewer 2 variant. Phoenix is the v1.2 based viewer that the vast majority of the SL population currently uses because v2/3 sucks hairy, sweaty, pasty white feet with yellow flaky toenails. The Phoenix viewer, the majority choice and the most popular SL viewer ever, will never support mesh.

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Coby Foden wrote:

 

 To make matters clear: Linden Lab has no plans whatsoever to block Phoenix nor any other V1 based viewer.

Not long ago in a galaxy not too far away:

 

[16:09] Tali Rosca: But are there plans to allow teens on the main grid?

[16:10] Blondin Linden: NO

[16:10] Blondin Linden: LET ME SAY THAT 2X - NO

 

Don't believe everything you read.

ETA: In fact, don't believe a single word.

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Marianne Little wrote:

Cool VL already have a viewer 1 version that supports mesh, I read that just an hour ago.

Seriously? And here I thought it was impossible to backport mesh code to the viewer 1.x code base. If this is true, there is still hope.

Nonetheless, the v1 code is far behind the times. It doesn't support multiple tattoo and alpha layers, for example. What we need is an official Linden viewer based on v3 code with an alternate interface that resembles the v1.x UI. There is no way around that. We need this yesterday. Get it done, or else it's time to say "So long, and thanks for all the mesh" for many of us.

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Don't Misunderstand me .. I like the improvements multiple alphas and mesh prims that really cost like 10 prims for one thing and are probably gonna make a little lag (giggles)  YAY ,,, you go MESHYS!  I think its cool that they are doing the upgrades and I guess V1 really does make me a little Retro but that V2 sucks and I dont care how many people defend it I came on with V1 and V2 is soo much different .. its not just a little different its alot different .. I can see I am gonna have to break down and give in to the dark side ,,,,, I just hate the interface. So I have a choice suck it up and move to something like 2 and figure it out or take my money else where I just wish that LL had gradually made the switch to V2 instead of all at once .. ok I will quit whining now cause really I bet other people have said all this before.and I beating a dead horse.

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Don't ever quit "whining". We need more "whiners" because most people don't dare to speak up or think they won't get heard over the fairly small but deafening loud choir of fanboys and shills.

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Get use to the doughnuts, they arent going away, in fact you probably see more of them, when firestorm gets mesh in 2 or 3 weeks, Phoenix will not be getting mesh, thier focus is firestorm 100%. If you want to see mesh in viewer 1 you will have to use singularity viewer or cool viewer when they get it. 

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Here is the link: http://sldev.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=540

Seriously, I am tired of you (general you) finding just negative things everywhere. V1 does not have multiple layers, that's the latest thing to complain over. Thay said V1 could not render mesh, maybe it will render multiple layers too. The Phoenix users can't miss multiple layers since they never had it? 

The Phoenix team said they will not develop Phoenix anymore, but focus on Firestorm. They can stick with it, or choose to use Henri's patches and bask in the glory because "Pheonix team saves lindon again, if they didn't fix waht lindon labs done all wrong we wouls leave sekond life and taht be the end becaus we are so many lolz pheonix WINZ!"

Phoenix and Firestorm in particular is good viewers. I prefer Firestorm over the official viewer, but I can manage to use it until a better viewer (for me) is released. I can adapt. 

And just because I am in a bad mood, why can't so many of their supporters even spell Phoenix? 

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I wasn't aware all the Phoenix people will never be able to see mesh... well Lindens gotta do something about that then... & I can only think of one option :matte-motes-evil: but they will never be so bold I think, so this deadend will just end up hanging there forever.

Since Phoenix has ceased development & will never have mesh.... what a sad world the people that insist on clinging to Phoenix will end up in... eventually they will literally be sitting blind in the dark unable to see the world around them. Time to switch guys, sorry

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I said I would switch .. I really did...  I hate V2 but guess I will learn it .. lol .. and yes I know just another ignorant close your sim threat .blah blah blah who cares ... right ,,,,. ya'll don't need to kiss my butt, I am nobody granted!  But what you gonna do when a whole bunch of us throw in the towel .. and quit.. don't say it wont happen cause it already has .. the people that pay the bills and keep the lights on get tired of "the greater good" who offer up nothing except comments like so what who cares!"... my point is  I pay my tiers for an entire region .. and I am a premium member all of which really goes to benefit all the people who don't pay a dime and just come in here to have fun, and yes I do get a full region for my troubles unless they lock me out with my so called crappy pheonix viewer and I am not sure what I get out of being a premium member except maybe the right to sound off ...  and the ones paying the bills are leaving .. where's your second life gonna be then with its Meshy upgrades and crappy interface..

 

Like I said then its gonna be .. wow I didnt think of that.... thats gonna suck..

 

see my thought is LL could have avoided all this by simply making a better interface when they discovered the vast majority hated the new one .. or something .. anything would have been better than slapping us in the face with V2

 

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Marianne Little wrote:

ere is the link: 

Seriously, I am tired of you (general you) finding just negative things everywhere. V1 does not have multiple layers, that's the latest thing to complain over. Thay said V1 could not render mesh, maybe it will render multiple layers too. The Phoenix users can't miss multiple layers since they never had it? 

Thanks for the link.

What I mean is that people who like the v1 interface have no other option than rely on third party viewer devs -- some of which have taught us that we need to be very careful whom we trust -- to backport and implement all the new shinies such as tattoo and alpha layers, and now mesh. Which only ever leads to half-baked solutions, such as Phoenix' makeshift alpha and tattoo support that is restricted to a single layer.

It is LL's job to give us back the original interface, which we (the majority "we") have been asking them to do ever since v2 was released. But they think they know better than their customers how this platform ought to be used and what SL residents ought to like. LL have a long history of completely ignoring customer demands and community feedback, which is the reason that we complain so much.

That's what I'm tired of. And I'm also sick and tired of the fact that whenever we give honest feedback and ask for changes, a small but vocal number of slaphappy fanboys and -girls are trying to wipe our concerns and problems off the table by telling us that it's not that bad, we can just use some other viewer and rely on third party devs with questionable skills and ethics to try and do LL's job. I don't want to have to rely on them. I'd like LL to listen to us, their paying customers, and implement the UI that we'd like to work with.

This constant "it's all good and well, we love the lab, adapt or die losers, don't let the door hit you, effing whiners" noise is totally counterproductive and gives LL a very skewed perception of the actual customer satisfaction level. The simple fact is that most people out there are still using Phoenix and Imprudence, and are unwilling (and in some cases unable) to make the switch to v2. This problem could easily be solved by implementing an optional legacy UI, which will never happen if the small choir of cheerleaders continues to drone out all negative feedback.

 


The Phoenix team said they will not develop Phoenix anymore, but focus on Firestorm. They can stick with it, or choose to use Henri's patches and bask in the glory because "Pheonix team saves lindon again, if they didn't fix waht lindon labs done all wrong we wouls leave sekond life and taht be the end becaus we are so many lolz pheonix WINZ!"

This is not a competition. The reason that we point out where Phoenix went right and LL went wrong is not that we are fans of the developers. Quite the opposite in my case, I don't trust them any further than I can throw them. Which is exactly why I want LL to add this UI to the official viewer. It's the UI that most residents want to use. It would be so easy for LL to reconcile the customer base, but they continue to do their thing and watch the concurrency numbers drop. Probably because some people cheer them on no matter what they do.

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WADE1 Jya wrote:

I wasn't aware all the Phoenix people will never be able to see mesh... well Lindens gotta do something about that then... & I can only think of one option :matte-motes-evil: but they will never be so bold I think, so this deadend will just end up hanging there
forever
.

So Phoenix users are the dead end now? It's nice to know how you think of the majority of your customers.

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

Firestorm is not Phoenix, it's viewer 2 with a detachable side bar. People who hate the v2/3 UI hate Firestorm for all the same reasons. It's just another viewer 2 variant. Phoenix is the v1.2 based viewer that the vast majority of the SL population currently uses because v2/3 sucks hairy, sweaty, pasty white feet with yellow flaky toenails. The Phoenix viewer, the majority choice and the most popular SL viewer ever, will never support mesh.

You do know that Firestorm has pie menus, the communication box, v1 profiles, and some other goodies right? While it certainly doesn't look exactly like v1 it isn't just v2 with a new skin either.


Don't ever quit "whining". We need more "whiners" because most people don't dare to speak up or think they won't get heard over the fairly small but deafening loud choir of fanboys and shills.

Right, because you know we don't get these kinds of v2 hate threads at least 10 times a day as it is. Nope, people are definitely afraid to speak out about how they feel. Are you serious? SL users complain about everything, all day long, every single day.

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@Ishtara: LOL no that is not what I meant at all, you misunderstood me. The development of Phoenix is the dead end. The customers themselves are not the dead end :smileyvery-happy:

These poor people are now stuck at the dead end of the road if they insist to continue using Phoenix.

Dead_End_sign.jpg

I think I am just saying best thing for them.

Move on guys, pick another viewer because it is not supported any longer.

The longer these people try to stick it out with an unsupported viewer, the more their Second Life experience will deteriorate. I am powerless to stop that process. Even if I try to cater specifically to them by never releasing a mesh item, SL will slowly become a mesh world & they will not be able to see it.

I think highly of my customers & so I try to warn them what is happening.

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Oh, ok :) Sorry about the misunderstanding.

I'd love to move on and make the switch. The thing is, whenever I use viewer 2, Firestorm, or Kirsten's viewer, I'm in for a stressful and frustrating experience. When I use Phoenix, things just work for me and I can concentrate on fun activities.

I'm a firm believer of the doctrine "If it hurts, stop doing it" :) That's why I gave up on these viewers. Why would I do something that I find frustrating? SL is a leisure activity for me, and if I can't enjoy it, there is no point in logging in. Of course I also won't enjoy it when everyone walks around wearing boxes and tori.

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No problem... I hope something likable comes along soon for you.

It would be a real shame if anyone leaves SL because of this transition.

I imagine some third party viewer dev will fill the gap real quick.

There's a wide open chance for that so somebody should. I'd do it myself for everybody, but I don't know have a clue how to code viewers.

It's not like Second Life will all change to mesh overnight so there's lots of time for everyone to find new viewers.

Edited to add: btw Rodvik says he wants to lose the sidebar if that's tempting.... :matte-motes-delicious:

 

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Firestorm is better than V2 but it has to use the V2 interface which makes it a bit clunky.  I find the chat/im/friends/groups particularly annoying. Do sometimes use Firestorm for photography if want to take advantage of multiple layers but that is about it.  I am ho hum about mesh and so am fine with seeing donuts for a long while in hopes that Firestorm team  will develop something that has cleaner utility or there is something more compelling than mesh to drive my desire to change.

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