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Greene Paine

What's so amazing about v1??!

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   Pie menu is faster to use because the visual field is larger but takes less space on the screen than drop down. A circular display of information is easier for the eye thence the brain to integrate than a linear.  Also the pie menu disappears as soon as the section is selected . 

   Pie is faster. Period.

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   Well i guess the vast majority of SL users (those of us who cling "mindlessly" to V1 and snowglobe based TPVs) will just have to suffer being unable to view your mesh earrings in silence ...

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Pie menu is faster because you're used to it. No other reason. Non-SL people might find it very unintuitive.

 

I am faster with pie menu than anyone in the world is with drop down menu.

My granny can move her hand left (with 22.5degrees tolerance) faster than my brother can move his hand 52cm (with 2cm tolerance)

For you and couple other people in this thread drop down menu is faster but you are special people who just use the pie super duper slow. Some people might also say that boat is faster than a rocket but that just mean they cant fly straight with the rocket.

And ill put the pie menu wiki link here again so you can see that pie menu is not only SL thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pie_menu

And now i stop arguing about the pie menu. Discussion about this start to feel like discussions with the religion people who say that the sun behind the head of jesus is just a pretty decoration and has no bigger meaning.

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anna Acanthus wrote:

   Pie menu is faster to use because the visual field is larger but takes less space on the screen than drop down. A circular display of information is easier for the eye thence the brain to integrate than a linear.  Also the pie menu disappears as soon as the section is selected . 

   Pie is faster. Period.

This certainly explains why evry OS, every (non-SL) Software for the last 20 years or something has a Pie-Menu! Ohh, wait, they don't ! :)

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Greene Paine wrote:

Seriously, I don't get it. Could someone maybe explain in clear terms exactly what it is about v1 they like so much? I realize v2 has a sidebar ... v1 doesn't. Umm .... v1 has a pie chart clicky thing, v2 uses a menu.
 
...
  
.... v1 has more .... blue? 

I mean I understand all the cool things TPV like Firestorm add (named crosshairs, chat radius, zoom to avatar, etc...) but what is so intangible about a v1 like Pheonix that it can't be ported to Firestorm??

In other words ... how much would you need to change a v1 viewer before it lost its v1ness, likewise how much would you need to add to a v2 to gain v1ness?

Also a note to Lindens ... why don't you open your eyes and actively absorb the innovation of the TPVs into the main viewer? Seriously guys. How long would it take to add a freekin' chat range circle on the minimap??

If I'm not completely bonkers, I seem to remember that the purpose of TPV in the first place was to allow for rapid improvement in the SL viewer by allowing the open source community to improve it. So yeah .... were improving it ... now freekin' add it already. >.<

First, don't expect the Lindens to act using basic logic and common sense.

Second, there is nothing really amazing about V1, except that its user interface is intuitive and simple to use.

Third, there is nothing really amazing about V2 either, except that its user interface is a piece of crap.

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I've used v1 the entire time I'm in SL, that's a lot of it. But LL is paving the way to the future. Those of us who have ridden out a few bumps will notice it more. That can't be hard to understand.

I tried v2 and search did not work at all. So if I didn't have a landmark to a place, I couldn't go.

I tried v2 and the sidebar was extremely annoying. If it isn't broke don't fix it.

I tried v2 and even on a new-ish machine the graphics were abysmal. 

I don't see any benefit so why would I want to switch? Plus (I hear) it's going to break my wardrobe and other things I spent lots of money on.

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What Version of Viewer are you talking about here, V 2.0 ?

Search works fine by now, at least for what i am searching for.

I like the Sidebar, but, for those that don't , there are enough ways to get rid of it.

Strongly doubt your graphix issue, VERY STRONGLY. I run V2 on an OLD compy , and it looks way better than on a V 1 based.

And the thing about loosing inventory, is really a myth. (it can happen if, for example, you log out often before your inventory has fetched completly, but this can happen on V1 too)

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Tristizia Demonista wrote:


anna Acanthus wrote:

   Pie menu is faster to use because the visual field is larger but takes less space on the screen than drop down. A circular display of information is easier for the eye thence the brain to integrate than a linear.  Also the pie menu disappears as soon as the section is selected . 

   Pie is faster. Period.

This certainly explains why evry OS, every (non-SL) Software for the last 20 years or something has a Pie-Menu! Ohh, wait, they don't !
:)

I wouldn't go down that road if I was you. Almost every major piece of software made since the graphical user interface era began uses standard File, Edit and View menus, yet v2 did away with them. Apparently somewhere between original v2 and 2.x when those standards were dumped it was decided that "industry standards" mean little. I personally sat in a Snowstorm user group meeting and heard Oz Linden himself say that he didn't care about industry standards.

Can't have it both ways.

We get that some of you guys are die-hard v2 lovers. Cool. It works for you. More power to you. But it's annoying to have our (along with a major portion of the SL customer base) legitimate reasons for not loving v2 dismissed by snarky comments or personal attacks.

I say again: if v2 was so intuitive, so technically superior, so much better than other alternatives why doesn't everyone switch? Why did Tom Hale, the VP in charge of v2 development, (alledgedly) get canned for it's failure? Why have 2 LL CEOs apologized for it's shortcomings?

I'm still waiting for some of the v2 stalwarts to answer any or all of these questions.

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Funny that you mention snarky remarks!

Why is it, that these are apparently perfectly acceptable when they are Pro V1 (or TPV) but not if somebody dares to say something positive about V2 ? It seems to be an unwritten rule somewhere here, that it is only acceptable if somebody bashes everything that has to do with V2. Everything positive is either ignored by die-hard v1 lovers or gets some snarky remarks.

Also, my remark was about the Pie-Menu, nothing else!

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Tristizia Demonista wrote:

Funny that you mention snarky remarks!

Why is it, that these are apparently perfectly acceptable when they are Pro V1 (or TPV) but not if somebody dares to say something positive about V2 ? It seems to be an unwritten rule somewhere here, that it is only acceptable if somebody bashes everything that has to do with V2. Everything positive is either ignored by die-hard v1 lovers or gets some snarky remarks.

Also, my remark was about the Pie-Menu, nothing else!

I don't recall anyone (certainly not me) attacking you for using v2, nor did I make any snarky comments, unlike another poster who earlier referred to 1.x users as "old folks" who dislike change. You stated something rather flippantly regarding the pie menu and I responded with my remarks about industry standards. It was hardly personal. You're of course welcome to give your reasons why you think v2 rocks. But that isn't going to influence the Lab to make changes. By people voicing their issues with v2 (hopefully in a calm and rational manner so as to be taken seriously) and hopefully someone in authority taking note, then those issues can get fixed.

If it wasn't for users expressing their unhappiness we'd still have the original 2.0 with all the major annoyances and flaws. You remember how horrible that was, yes?

Also keep in mind the OP was asking 1.x users why we like that viewer. We were simply responding only to have other people come into the discussion telling up why we're "wrong".

P.S. There's nothing stopping you or anyone else from starting a thread expressing why you use and enjoy v2.

 

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Go a head we wont mind looking at ppl that look like newbie donuts ,, we don't mind at all if you wanna look that way has long we use our viewer 1 that how will be. We can't care less.

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I wasn't attacking you personally, if you got that impression, i'm sorry for this misunderstanding!

But the point i tried to get across still stands, there is (in general) a tendency here (or in other forums & even inworld) that it seems to be considered blasphemy or something when somebody says anything positive about the official V2.  But on the other side it seems to be a valid disscussion point if somebody just says "I hate V2".

And you are perfectly right when you say , Viewer 2 had some serious bugs in the start (as did V1 btw!! ) , that just doesn't give some posters the right to judge it based solely on that past experience and try to sell it as "recent" happenings.

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Greene Paine wrote:

 

In other words ... how much would you need to change a v1 viewer before it lost its v1ness, likewise how much would you need to add to a v2 to gain v1ness?

Also a note to Lindens ... why don't you open your eyes and actively absorb the innovation of the TPVs into the main viewer? Seriously guys. How long would it take to add a freekin' chat range circle on the minimap??

 

About the first thing... for me you would need to completly take over the good old UI. Im not a big fan of ipod-skin-styled applications. V2 looks for me very horrible. I feel very bad while using it.. I dont see usability. Things aren´t good sorted in menus and the sidebar is completly nonsense which at least none of the people I know need.

About the second thing. This is truly a real good question I asking myself very often. Today I noticed that I cant rotate an object axis depending on which object-link I edit.. (edit axis on root). I now noticed that was something I did know from Phoenix Viewer.. in fact I thought it would be an basic feature.... Today I learned a hard lesson that this is not in the V2 viewer. Therefor I am unable to use V2 until they add this basic feature. So I also ask my self why the heck no one of the Lindens did notice that peoples (at least creators) need this feature. It is in the phoenix viewer.. so they managed to add this helpful feature. Why the heck cant linden decide to add it?

 

 

 

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Honestly, I've used V2 since it came out. It was buggy at first, sure, as is a lot of software when it's been radically changed. But I've always .. always liked V2s color scheme/layout SO much more.

I've always been confused on why people can't migrate to v2 myself. Opening my inventory takes one click .. as it did before. The button is on the right instead of the bottom. I prefer the separate IM windows. Profiles are kinda cool now with the feeds; that'll be awesome for designers.

The dark UI actually makes me feel like I can see the world even more. Dark colors = less distracting than bright. 

LL has put some TPV ideas into their code. My boob physics, for example. (although, I can't ever find settings that work correctly, and look accurate). 

 

All in all, I really have no desire whatseover to go back to 1.x. I do every once in a while, just for the local textures in Phoenix, if I'm making  something. And I actually find myself fighting with the 1.x UI. It's all a matter of what you're used to, and I think people are just way less than willing to try something new long enough to get used to it. Most people I talked to "tried it for 10 minutes, and gave up."

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Danny Nolan wrote:Most people I talked to "tried it for 10 minutes, and gave up."

And that is in fact the proof of Linden Labs inadequacy. Sorry. That means the first impression for the peoples in the very first 10 minutes on that viewer is already a real pain. Dont understand me wrong.. it is ok if some peoples like V2. But the majority doesnt and then if Linden Lab still hold on its plans... its nothing else then embarrassing as they feel aggrieved in honour.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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10 mins is an adequate period of time ? 

Sorry, but i think that it is NOT enough (regardless of what Viewer i like or not).

That's about the same thing as saying when you swith from on OS to another, let's say Windows to Linux or Mac, and are able to make a qualified statement over the quality of the new one in 10 mins. This is simply impossible!

One is only able to do that, after a reasonable period of time, and that's most likely more a matter of days or at least several hours.

ps.: If i had taken your route, my testing of Phoenix and later Firestorm would have been over after 1 min, just by seeing the default colorscheme! :) (btw, it didn't end, i found out how to change it before that. :)

 

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Tristizia Demonista wrote:

This certainly explains why evry OS, every (non-SL) Software for the last 20 years or something has a Pie-Menu! Ohh, wait, they don't !
:)

 and they don't for two very good reasons that have nothing to do speed. 1) it's not an ancient industry standard, which linear and drop down menus have been for ages (because they were also the simplest to render), and 2) because pie only excels at menus of fixed and limited length (or else lose the position benefits, and pay for extra length with nesting). linear menus pay for that extra flexibility with higher required precision and less intuitive positioning.

Each have their merits, but absent the need for flexibilty or more than a dozen or so options, pie is ridiculously faster to use than a comparable linear menu once both are familiar, especially for frequent tasks. and it all really boils down to required precision.... time varies exponentially to required precision.

 

PS

anyone know why this thread was rubbish-binned in general when it started in and is relevant to viewer?

ETA:

Nvm, that's what I get for looking at multiple forums at once

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