Tristizia Demonista Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Liisa Runo wrote: People like the piemenu for the speed. Humans learn to remember stuff they repeat often. So for example rightclick edit happens in doubleclick speed. We dont wait to read the text on the button. click, lil movement, click again http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pie_menu Which only proves my point for using a drop down menu, it's WAY faster for me. A Piemenu, despite what this article says, is to slow. And, if something changes, it is REALLY slow because everyone who knew prvious stuff before by heart, will be completly confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deej Kasshiki Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I dislike v2 because (in no particular order): It undoes 5 years of muscle memory, familiarity and productivity for no good reason Text chat is handled horribly (I prefer the v1-style scrolling console) I hate IMs/notifications blinking at the bottom right of the screen where I frequently miss them Because the dark interface obscures the 3-D world. I'm here to enjoy said world. The UI should fade into the background Because the fonts are hard to read Industry standard menu items like File, Edit, View are discarded, again for no good reason other than to "be different" Many things are either not possible or are more difficult to do Performance even on modern hardware is worse (I avg. 5-10 fps less in v2-based Firestorm or Kirsten's vs Snowglobe using identical settings) Numerous major graphical bugs (like the shaders/shadows/invisiprim issues or avatars displaying as clouds for days despite all troubleshooting attempts) Brain dead sidebar Undocked windows from sidebar remain onscreen (can only be minimized, not totally dismissed) UI was designed by an outside firm with no notion of how SL is used by residents That about covers my complaints. To me the cons far outweigh the pros. I'll stick with Snowglobe until most of these issues are addressed or so many things get broken by new "features" that I can no longer enjoy SL. At that point I'll either switch to something v2-based or head back to Eve and Guild Wars. Hope this answers your question, assuming you weren't simply trolling. P.S. Take a look at Rodvik Linden's SLCC 11 Q&A session after his keynote when someone asks a question about the v2 UI. It's not a good sign when all the Lab's CEO can do is basically laugh and agree with the questioner about how bad it is but, at least he was honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Tristizia Demonista wrote: Much to the obvious surprise of most Users here, drag & drop into IM's works perfectly in Viewer 2! It's allways astounding how little people know about something they judge! And why people like this cumbersome and disturbing Piemenu is and allways will be beyond me. For decades every piece of software has a right-click drop-down menu, so why should i use something different here ? ps: nothing personal Dresden, you just were the best to reply to I figured the drop into IM thing was a feature of V2, but I wasn't sure because I couldn't manage to get past the stifling interface long enough to learn it's intricate features. When I use the pie menu, most of the time, I don't even have to look at what I'm clicking because it becomes second nature... it's a matter of choice. Firestorm gives you that choice, the LL viewer doesn't. ...Dres (I wouldn't have dreamed of taking it personally.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Tristizia Demonista wrote: Which only proves my point for using a drop down menu, it's WAY faster for me. All it proves is that you prefer it... nothing more. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Peewee Musytari wrote: Ceka Cianci wrote: i'm curious where all the extra clicks are that everyone talks about..maybe it's that i use firestorm and we have pie ..i know without pie i clicked a lot..but besides that i don't notice the extra clicks.. was that where they were..where there was no pie? omg now i want pie.. One that springs to mind is...Sending someone an item. V1= Open profile, drag/drop item. V2= Open profile, click actions, click share, get redirected to an IM box, drag/drop item. mmmmm pie =^^= Nahm Nahm Nahm =^^= You can drag an inventory item onto someone in V2 just as you have described. Open profile, drag drop item, as long as it is transferable. The way you are doing it in V2 is the long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leliel Mirihi Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Tristizia Demonista wrote: Much to the obvious surprise of most Users here, drag & drop into IM's works perfectly in Viewer 2! Drag & drop into IM windows is actually a feature LL added years ago before most TPVs even existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Pretty much nothing is special about V1 other than 'what old folks is used to.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Peewee Musytari wrote: One that springs to mind is...Sending someone an item. V1= Open profile, drag/drop item. V2= Open profile, click actions, click share, get redirected to an IM box, drag/drop item. mmmmm pie =^^= Nahm Nahm Nahm =^^= Let met correct that. V1= Open profile, drag/drop item. V2= Open IM box, drag/drop item. In other words: "old folks is used to v1, and v2 is from them strange folks down the hill." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Liisa Runo wrote: People like the piemenu for the speed. Humans learn to remember stuff they repeat often. So for example rightclick edit happens in doubleclick speed. We dont wait to read the text on the button. click, lil movement, click again http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pie_menu Again, what old folks is used to is what it comes down to. Pie, versus pulldown. Process is same, picture is different shape. Square can be scarry though, and they might mug you in a dark alley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyll Bergbahn Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Liisa Runo "So i will use v1 untill v2/3 has the same stability and functionality of v1." v1 had stability? When was this? I used v1 from 2006 to 2010 and I never recall it having stability. The viewers were forever crashing for one reason or another. v2 has oodles more stability. The only reason I ever crash now is because of a dodgy Vodafone modem/router dropping my internet connection. It's been ages since I had a viewer crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deej Kasshiki Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 And v2 is so freaking awesome that 60% or so of residents don't use it. The CEO apologized for it. The VP who lead the v2 project was fired. I guess that blows your "old folks who are scared of change" theory to hell, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Singer Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 workflow and iterface are the main differences at this point. V1x has quicker workflows than V2+. mostly because of V2's insistence on low contrast, with over sized ui to make up for it, and a penchant for making options take more clicks in vastly differing screen zones. mostly only of importance to content creators and managers; casual users note little difference other than familiarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liisa Runo Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Pussycat Catnap wrote: Liisa Runo wrote: People like the piemenu for the speed. Humans learn to remember stuff they repeat often. So for example rightclick edit happens in doubleclick speed. We dont wait to read the text on the button. click, lil movement, click again http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pie_menu Again, what old folks is used to is what it comes down to. Pie, versus pulldown. Process is same, picture is different shape. Square can be scarry though, and they might mug you in a dark alley. It is not about what we are used to. Pie menu is faster. Period. Process is not the same. It is not a matter of opinion. Anyone who disagree can release article and scientific study to prove that Paul Fitts is a liar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liisa Runo Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Nyll Bergbahn wrote: Liisa Runo "So i will use v1 untill v2/3 has the same stability and functionality of v1." v1 had stability? When was this? I used v1 from 2006 to 2010 and I never recall it having stability. The viewers were forever crashing for one reason or another. v2 has oodles more stability. The only reason I ever crash now is because of a dodgy Vodafone modem/router dropping my internet connection. It's been ages since I had a viewer crash. v1 is perfectly stable for me. I never crash with it. (unless intentionally crashed by some hacker that can crash v2/3 too) And cant say about v2/3 stability on me since i have not been using it much. All i know is that people keep complaining more than ever since v2. This forum is full of people with problems. JIRA is full of listed bugs. I will give v3 a try some day when im super zen. Maybe it is stable for me too. Maybe LL has added the features im been missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leliel Mirihi Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Void Singer wrote: workflow and iterface are the main differences at this point. V1x has quicker workflows than V2+. mostly because of V2's insistence on low contrast, with over sized ui to make up for it, and a penchant for making options take more clicks in vastly differing screen zones. mostly only of importance to content creators and managers; casual users note little difference other than familiarity. I think the more clicks idea is a bit exaggerated. There are a few things that take more, admittedly a lot more for one or two tasks, but the vast majority are about the same. And there is at least one task that can be done in v2 with an order of magnitude fewer click than are needed to do the same thing in v1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Singer Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 even for the same number of clicks, the size and location of the target zone make a vast difference... Pie was good in that the zones were large, but confined to a limited area, where as the menu style has smaller target that tend to open options away from the original zone... which produces a slow down as you have to flip back and forth between precision use and zone movement. this is less pronounced in UI's where the options are scrollable, but it's still there. but the extra clicks seem to be mostly constrained to build and upload actions.... it seems they optimized the rest for casual users in their desire to simply that experience.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronometria Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Basic mode of V2 and 3 has a lot to answer for. If they got rid of that, it would make a lot more sense to new users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristizia Demonista Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I don't care who this Paul Fitts is or what he says!! For me a drop down menu is faster!. PERIOD!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MenuBar Memorial Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 A few of the problems I have with V2 have not been addressed here. I haven't used V2 in a long time, so please excuse me if some of these gripes are out-of-date... 1. As I recall, when scripting, I had a hard time positioning my cursor when making changes. I'd click on line 25 and my cursor ends up on line 24. Clicking 3-4 times just to properly place the cursor every time is a detriment to flow and creativity. I sure hope they fixed that. 2. I do a lot of streaming videos I host on my own server space. Almost everybody I know that is using V2 (and the other TPVs) cannot view these videos. If they can view them, it takes a looooong time for the video to begin and usually stops in the middle and replays from the beginning. I need a viewer that can easily view video streams (not talking about shared-media - just a land video stream, and yes, they're optimized for streaming, etc). People on V1 have no problem seeing my videos. If I'm wrong in this assumption due to my small "focus group", please let me know what these people are doing wrong that makes land-streamed videos not work. 3. Although I'm a MacEvangelist from the early days, I'm still using OSX version 10.4.11 (for various reasons), it's my understanding that OS 10.4 is not supported in V2 anymore. So there's that too. One of the biggest problems I have, is helping people; "Okay I'll try to help. What viewer are you using? Bob's Budget Viewer V48.232.91 you say? Hmmmmm... let me think... uh, ...does that one have a file menu?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Liisa Runo wrote: Pussycat Catnap wrote: Liisa Runo wrote: People like the piemenu for the speed. Humans learn to remember stuff they repeat often. Again, what old folks is used to is what it comes down to. Pie, versus pulldown. Process is same, picture is different shape. Square can be scarry though, and they might mug you in a dark alley. It is not about what we are used to. Pie menu is faster. Period. Process is not the same. It is not a matter of opinion. Pie menu is faster because you're used to it. No other reason. Non-SL people might find it very unintuitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyra Blackthorne Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 The biggest reason I resist using Firestorm is the V2 chat/im/groups/friends/notices management. In Phoenix all communcations are in a central place making it simple to keep track of multiple conversations and still see messages, notices, items sent etc. Having events happening all over the screen is just annoying to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madman626 Fall Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Right on ,, you tell them Deej * high`s 5* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cincia Singh Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 What's so amazing about V1 is so many people spend tons of time whining about it rather than spend that time learning a new viewer and getting back to having fun. /me toddles off to wear my mesh earrings so V1 users can enjoy the view ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Cincia Singh wrote: What's so amazing about V1 is so many people spend tons of time whining about it rather than spend that time learning a new viewer and getting back to having fun. /me toddles off to wear my mesh earrings so V1 users can enjoy the view ;-) I hardly ever hear anyone whining about V1 at all. Just saying. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cincia Singh Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 haha Dresden, you know what I meant ... but years ago (yes I'm a kinda oldbie) the V1 viewer (the only viewer at the time) was "teh evol". It was at the root of everything that caused angst in SL and people demanded it change and improve. Then along comes V2 and suddenly people are screaming like "zomg you want me to change?" Now V2 is teh evol and "I'm taking my dollie and going home if I can't have my V1 for evar" is a common threat! If I had a L$ for every time someone said they were quitting SL for ever I'd be rich like Ansche. Ok, time to go have some fun with mesh. Later gators! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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