Will Mesh Improve THE ..... ?

[ralph Alderton]

Will mesh improve :

1. Concurrency

2. Land Ownership / Grid Size

3. The Ecconomy

4. Retention Rates (retaining users)

5. Conversion Rates (converting signups to active users)

 

Unfortunately, I'm sad to say, NO. Mesh will NOT improve any of the above

Mesh is an exciting and wonderful thing for SL and thank you LL Mesh Team that it's finally here. There is one thing it will improve, that is, the beauty of SL. But that beauty, the beauty of Mesh can not alone improve 1 to 5 listed above

Unfortunately tier costs are so high that they negate the wonders of mesh and all the other good things The Lab are doing and have planned

It appears that LL are working on amazing feature, after amazing feature, yet nothing is improving land ownership or concurrency. The grid is shrinking, concurrency is weak

When will LL think it's time to address the REAL ISSUE that is causing SL to slowly slip downwards

None of the wonderful things The Lab are doing will make any difference to concurrency and retaining customers until they do something about the absurd structure and price we have for land tier :

Current Insane Structure

Nobody is allowed to buy a Homestead without a full sim - driving customers away

Huge setup fees - driving customers away

Crazy monthy tier costs - driving customers away

 

SL is a wonderous and amazing product priced way beyond the pockets of the masses they are trying to attract

Tier costs are killing LL's efforts to grow the platform  - Real Shame

 

'Denial ain't just a river in Egypt'
Mark Twain

 

[Vincent Nacon]

Clearly you don't even understand what's goes on in SL.

 

1: Concurrency won't change because of the real world cocurrency... It's nothing Linden Lab can do about it.

2: It's not like we need more Land Ownership/Grid Size or less to improve... anything?  However, there are two new things that came with Mesh's update release. Encroachment system will help out a lot of people who had abuses and prim count management to keep what's their, not others. Also, there is a new scale limit, raised to 64m instead of 10m. It's going to boost smaller parcel ownerships because now they can have a simple home without eatting up their prim count so much.

3: There's a very good chance that mesh can improve economy in SL because it create more 3D modeling jobs for the customers who demands better looking contents.

4: ...what? Did you just add "Retention Rates" to the list to make it sounds like it's just another thing we need to improve?  Linden Lab can't do anything about that either. That's up to you (users).

5: Another non-sense.

 

Might be a good idea to tell what you think is the real issue with SL.  Also... yes, there are ways for residents to "buy" a Homestead sims without buying a full estate and this has been going on for quite some times now.  Either way, most people want full estate than homestead because of its performance and low prim count. It's no brainer.

 

Even I had some doubts about SL's future growth but I don't like the idea of spreading "doom" without some logical structural reasonings.  And doing so would only make it worst than helping.

[Peewee Musytari]

I agree with Vincent.

I also think it would be a terrible idea to sell Homesteads or Open Spaces to people without sims. The grid was flooded with them even with the restrictions currently in place, filling the rest of the available spaces with low performance, low prim sims would suck.

I don`t think the price of sims should be reduced either, the original investment made by current sim owners already got slashed once making their holdings worth less. There are plenty of ways for people to aquire sims at a reduced price while still allowing owners a chance of recouping some money.

I would like cheaper tier fees, especially as I have to pay 20%  VAT on mine, but I`m not gonna hold my breathe for that happening any time soon.

[ralph Alderton]

Vincent.

1. Real world concurrency ( RL world population ) currently stands at 6.8 billion and is growing at a rate of 83 million per year - and yes, Linden labs can do absolutley NOTHING about that !

1a. LL are trying their best to improve concurrency, that's their job and that's the biggest indictaor of the success of SL - how many people use the SL World daily.

2. Yes we do need more land. It's a marker of SL success and growth

3. Mesh will not improve the ecconomy. The marketplace is already saturated and mesh sales will only REPLACE current already existing content sales. There will be no growth because of mesh as tier is too high to grow the userbase

4. Retention rates referes to the massive CHURNOVER of existing customers, who leave because tier cost is too high and onerous. It's no fun

5. Conversion rates refers to converting and keeping the 16k signups who register for Sl every day but don't become active users. And if some of them do become users others leave - proven by the fact that concurreny figures are stagnant and slipping because tier costs are way too high

Linden Labs can do something about all 5

Mesh will not improve any of the above because we have a core problem undermining all of LL's efforts to grow the platform

The core problem is that Tier costs are too high

[Mickey Vandeverre]

Ralph!  you are coming around....seems like just yesterday that you were blaming the demise of SL on Freebies.

[ralph Alderton]

Mickey,

High Tier is clearly the main problem when it comes to retention rates and poor concurrency. Freebies and Junk on the marketplace are also a factor in the equation !

The SL equation for success is clearly in need of revision as the current equation is failing to grow SL

 

[Void Singer]

actually I would say that it will improve retention, and maybe even concurrency....

why? now people with the skills and the software to make even more wondrous things have a reason to get in here. and people looking for something more realistic and varied will have a reason to stay.

unfortunately, while I personally wish that tier/regions were cheaper, it's really the only reasonably available prop left for LL to keep a steady and profitable income..... the massive cry that would go up if they instituted more fees anywhere else (selling taxes, account fees, etc) would all kill concurrency and retention.

I'm not as pessimistic about opening the region market to allow homestead to be bought standalone, and would probably own at least one if they did....

[Venus Petrov]

I agree.  Some might look upon ownership of a homestead region as a possible stepping stone to a full region.

[Ishtara Rothschild]

---

Void Singer wrote:

why? now people with the skills and the software to make even more wondrous things have a reason to get in here. and people looking for something more realistic and varied will have a reason to stay.

---

 

Yup. Out with the old hobbyists, in with the new professionals. Everybody wins, except for the people who came here because SL was a platform where everyone had a chance to be creative and create something. I think that was exactly what made SL so special.

ETA: Anyone remember Blue Mars? Probably not.  BM was one realistic looking MMO with professional content developers and all the bells and whistles. Was. It's yesterday's news, because people had nothing to do there other than shopping and socializing. It wasn't enough reason for them to stay.

[Jacki Silverfall]

New professionals?

Everyone can download free mesh software and learn it. Just as they did with building with prims or sculpts. I'm no professional and I'm learning it as are many here.

The only difference is that you can't be in world while creating but nether could you with scuplts. Didn't seem to hurt that.

[Ishtara Rothschild]

---

Jacki Silverfall wrote:

New professionals?

Everyone can download free mesh software and learn it. Just as they did with building with prims or sculpts. I'm no professional and I'm learning it as are many here.

The only difference is that you can't be in world while creating but nether could you with scuplts. Didn't seem to hurt that.

---

Well, you have to admit that the learning curve for new residents is quite a bit steeper now. Working with prims was simple and intuitive. People visited the Ivory Tower of Primitives, headed off to the next sandbox and started having fun. They were residents first and merchants later. But how many new residents with no previous experience in 3D design are going to try and wrap their head around Blender, or shell out $3500 for Maya?

As for existing content creators: Do you think they (you) have a chance at competing with the pro's who are currently selling their work on sites like TurboSquid, Renderosity, and Content Paradise? Not only do they have years of experience in mesh design and marketing, they also have a ton of content that can easily be adapted for SL. Unlike us, they don't have to struggle and acquire new skillsets in order to develop mesh content, they can simply upload their existing stock.

This will completely change the SL economy, where many content creators are struggling to survive as it is. The concurrency is dropping and there is only so much money to go around. A huge influx of professional 3D designers is bound to quickly replace the current market elite of semi-professional designers, not to mention all the hobbyists who were just having fun building things and making a few sales to earn back their tier or finance their shopping habits.

Will the new merchants bother with an inworld presence and the broken inworld search? Will they rent shops in public sims and vendor space in malls? Will they be motivated to give back to the SL community by providing public clubs, hangouts, and RP sims? Will they even bother to get a whiff of the inworld experience at all? Or will they stick with what they do best and what is most profitable, which is marketing 3D content through an online shopping portal (read: the Marketplace)? Without inworld content sales, public places can't survive. I'm not sure if tons of awesome new content can make up for a purely residential SL experience.

[Pamela Galli]

Agree, been saying it from the beginning, seems inevitable, but oh well. People are convinced that mesh will attract new ppl, and that's that.

I am just wondering how the mesh pros will like doing 24/7 customer support in SL.

 

 

[Jacki Silverfall]

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

---

Jacki Silverfall wrote:

New professionals?

Everyone can download free mesh software and learn it. Just as they did with building with prims or sculpts. I'm no professional and I'm learning it as are many here.

The only difference is that you can't be in world while creating but nether could you with scuplts. Didn't seem to hurt that.

---

Well, you have to admit that the learning curve for new residents is quite a bit steeper now. Working with prims was simple and intuitive. People visited the Ivory Tower of Primitives, headed off to the next sandbox and started having fun. They were residents first and merchants later. But how many new residents with no previous experience in 3D design are going to try and wrap their head around Blender, or shell out $3500 for Maya?

I believe that the residents that will be coming in are more computer savvy than us (me) old farts. There is no need to spend hundreds of dollars when  you can get the software that is free and just as good. Blender 2.5 has a new UI that I found very easy to understand, Hundreds of tutorials to learn. And I'm having fun learning it. Maybe there will be a ivory tower for mesh. Also this doesn't stop prims or sculpt builders since you can link them.

As for existing content creators: Do you think they (you) have a chance at competing with the pro's who are currently selling their work on sites like TurboSquid, Renderosity, and Content Paradise? Not only do they have years of experience in mesh design and marketing, they also have a ton of content that can easily be adapted for SL. Unlike us, they don't have to struggle and acquire new skillsets in order to develop mesh content, they can simply upload their existing stock.

Maybe I can't compete with the pro's, but then again I don't see them taking over the world either. Why would they?

I feel if your making quality sculpts you can make better meshes.

Isn't it all pulling vertices around? I have never made sculpts so I don't know. Yes it might take years to get really good at it but you have to keep learning.

is will completely change the SL economy, where many content creators are struggling to survive as it is. The concurrency is dropping and there is only so much money to go around. A huge influx of professional 3D designers is bound to quickly replace the current market elite of semi-professional designers, not to mention all the hobbyists who were just having fun building things and making a few sales to earn back their tier or finance their shopping habits.

Didn't they say that about sculpts? It will ruin the SL economy. I haven't been here that long but it seems that the sky is always falling about something. I don't think there will be a

huge influx of professional designers

that is going to swoop down on SL. I think they have better things to do. I also think that there will always be a place for any of the builders in SL because of the exact reasons you stated. It's also fun to learn and to in world. As far as using Sl to finance your your Sl shopping habits and paying tier I hope they can still do that. I wouldn't pay the rent from a virtual worlds earnings myself.

Will the new merchants bother with an inworld presence and the broken inworld search? Will they rent shops in public sims and vendor space in malls? Will they be motivated to give back to the SL community by providing public clubs, hangouts, and RP sims? Will they even bother to get a whiff of the inworld experience at all? Or will they stick with what they do best and what is most profitable, which is marketing 3D content through an online shopping portal (read: the Marketplace)? Without inworld content sales, public places can't survive. I'm not sure if tons of awesome new content can make up for a purely residential SL experience.

I can only hope that if these pro's or who ever come they will be part of the community and contribute like all  of the people before us that made SL such a amazing place. But I don't think it will be mesh that will be it's demise. LL is letting it close up. Beautiful sims are gone and going. Nuff said. It's change and it's here. I tried to prepare for it because I didn't want to be left behind. And I enjoy learning new stuff

---

 

[Vincent Nacon]

---

ralph Alderton wrote:

Vincent.

1. Real world concurrency ( RL world population ) currently stands at 6.8 billion and is growing at a rate of 83 million per year - and yes, Linden labs can not absolutley NOTHING about that !

1a. LL are trying their best to improve concurrency, that's their job and that's the biggest indictaor of the success of SL - how many people use the SL World daily.

2. Yes we do need more land. It's a marker of SL success and growth

3. Mesh will not improve the ecconomy. The marketplace is already saturated and mesh sales will only REPLACE current already existing content sales. There will be no growth because of mesh as tier is too high to grow the userbase

4. Retention rates referes to the massive CHURNOVER of existing customers, who leave because tier cost is too high and onerous. It's no fun

5. Conversion rates refers to converting and keeping the 16k signups who register for Sl every day but don't become active users. And if some of them do become users others leave - proven by the fact that concurreny figures are stagnant and slipping because tier costs are way too high

Linden Labs can do something about all 5

Mesh will not improve any of the above because we have a core problem undermining all of LL's efforts to grow the platform

The core problem is that Tier costs are too high

---

From what I've understand, you have clouded yourself with your own doubts too thick. No matter what I or anyone could tell you, won't able to take that prospective view.

And I had asked what do you think is the real issue was and all I got in return you gave the same statement as your first post. Which tells me you don't even know what was the issue from what we can address it than assuming it based on a generalized idea of a whole; instead of tiny sand gains in the gear-work.

I also noticed you're agreeing with fact that I mentioned Linden Lab can't do anything about RL world concurrency, yet you're showing expression of anger which implied that they could have done something about it. So, what do you think they could do something about it? (Not that I'm expecting an answer.)  Quite frankly you're wrong about their job to improve concurrency while it is part of an indicator of their success, but clearly not the biggest indicator.  Their jobs is to make a nice fun enjoyable experience for all of us, not worry about our concurrency, that's ours to decide.  Investors in Stock market would be rich if they could decide our concurrency to spend on their own companies they've invested in the first place.  (It's actually called brainwashing, by the way.)

 

Having more land would be great for Linden Lab when it come to one of their sources of income... But doesn't mean it's a good thing for society that we have inside Second Life.  It's no fun to visit a empty sim all the time. People came to gather and mingle.

I'm not seeing any proof that Marketplace is saturated since Linden Lab had brought it from a resident.  They had cleared up and removed discontinued and broken and freebie-junks more than it ever could before.  However, you had wrote, "There will be no growth because of mesh as tier is too high to grow the userbase(.)"   Admitting that mesh has nothing to do with tier and by logically adding more lands wouldn't help, because the rent is too damn high?

Actually no, higher tier would only encourage people to share their land more wisely.  If not, people wouldn't be logging on as much anymore by now.

This data says otherwise, apart from the fact that it's picking itself back up since last year's fall.

 

 

 

 

 

Life, even a alternative life in Second Life's world is one strange beast that can not not be fully understood and can not be predicted as I've learned that over the time.  There's no doubt that Mesh can have a big effect, but itself alone can not change the game plan completely.

 

On a personal matter. I think you need help to cope with things around you. It's time for you to reconnect with your friends that you haven't seen in a long while, but avoid talking about these sort of thing, it just won't help you. (In case you don't realize it by now, only way to improve Second Life is to mingle more often.)

[Void Singer]

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

---

Void Singer wrote:

why? now people with the skills and the software to make even more wondrous things have a reason to get in here. and people looking for something more realistic and varied will have a reason to stay.

---

 

Yup. Out with the old hobbyists, in with the new professionals. Everybody wins, except for the people who came here because SL was a platform where everyone had a chance to be creative and create something. I think that was exactly what made SL so special.

ETA: Anyone remember Blue Mars? Probably not.  BM was one realistic looking MMO with professional content developers and all the bells and whistles. Was. It's yesterday's news, because people had nothing to do there other than shopping and socializing. It wasn't enough reason for them to stay.

---

I disagree, there is still plenty of room for the hobbyist and the DIY crowd, and to be completely honest, a majority of mesh creators fit this mold as well..... the real pros work design for gaming and effects studios, and most of them neither have time nor interest for things like SL. couple that with the fact that mesh tools for amatuers are becoming cheaper and better and I'd say there's plenty of market room. if you're doing it as micro income then it's worth adding a new toolset, and if you're just doing it to create then it doesn't matter much as long as you are happy doing what you want.

 

PS.

BM's failure wasn't due to the lack of simple tools, it was lack of draw.... they couldn't get casual users interested because there wasn't any existing content, and they couldn't get content creators interested because there was no market. it also suffered interface problems and requirement hurdles that couldn't be overcome without an existing user base....

[Gypsy Quixote]

If mesh brings about the demise of the pleated miniskirt I'm all for it  

[Conifer Dada]

I've seen some very realistic things made in mesh.  I even managed to upload a simple building I made myself in Google SketchUp - and there it was - on my sky platform - amazing!  As we see more and more mesh objects the general appearance of the grid will improve.  And now we have shadows that can be enabled easily, although they're still glitchy and slow things down.  But all the ducks are present for a leap forward in SL realism, even if they're not quite lined up yet.

I think this might give a small boost to SL activity, but not a surge.

[Qie Niangao]

Over the long haul, Mesh may improve all those things, simply as a side-effect of getting rid of most sculpties, thereby enhancing everybody's SL experience.