Did it Mesh You Up?

[Mayalily]

Yes, I saw the photos, they were loose fitting looking dresses to me.  On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being worst and 10 being best, the look compared to other clothes they have is about a 1.  I didn't like them very much, they kind of look like potatoe sacks a bit in the way they fit.  The dresses kind of look like they are going to fall off or show your boobs as soon as your bend down to pick something up for an example, as that is what would happen in real life if you wore a dress that lose fitting, bend to pick up something, and your boobs would be hanging out all over the place.  

Now, some heterosexual men might like that idea.  lolz 

[Ceera Murakami]

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Keli Kyrie wrote:

This is what it looks like to a person on Firestorm.



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And that is why I won't be purchasing any Mesh clothes or even attempting to create any Mesh items for sale for quite a while. Until the majority of Viewers support Mesh, using it can make you look like a fool to others.

[Kelli May]

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Keli Kyrie wrote:

 

This is what it looks like to a person on Firestorm.



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I donut think that's a good look on you.

[Melita Magic]

The fit on the black and white shorts in the original post is diaper-ish.

I think things will improve.

The smart way for creators to proceed, at least at first, would be to get together and make a standard size A, B, C, etc. for clothing, and shoes. And avatars.

Then people can shop according to which size their mesh shape body is.

Simple, no?

[Marianne Little]

The jeans I show, is 4 premade sizes, and that's a freebie after mesh is gridwide what, 1 day?

It will improve, yes. When I spend money on mesh, I will need a demo first, just like it is with shoes now. Furries will have digigrade jeans and boots made for them, short curvy avatars will have their creators, tall thin ones... Just like today, when you buy clothes with prims, you prefer this or that designer because it looks good on you.

Speaking of boots, I predict that thigh high boots in mesh will be very popular. The thigh high boots in sculpts need to have 2 parts now, and when the knee is bending, it often looks distorted. The knees in mesh jeans bend very nice compared with what we already have.

Wearing mesh boots with alpha will be no different than wearing boots today, just click "wear" and size it so they fit, probably through resizer. Or try on demos in differnt sizes first.

[Marianne Little]

Um, you forget that I would have to care about what others think.

I assume that friends and your partner will be the factor that's important for most ppl. If your partner can't/won't use a viewer with mesh, of course you would not do it. If your friends can't/won't use a viewer with mesh, you care about what they see.

What Random Guy sees? Whatever.

 

[Mayalily]

I don't see how that is easy, as I've seen shapes from A to Z.  All different kinds of shapes so I don't see how just an A, B and C would work at all?  That limits the creativity to about three shapes. 

[Marianne Little]

Just a follow up to what I said about boots: If you are a content creator who think you can make a great pair of thigh high boots, but you will wait... You risk that I already bought one or 2 pairs when you finally release your boots. I would probably think your boots are pretty, but I already have a pair that look almost like yours.

What do you risk if you sell your boots with a demo, so ppl can try before they buy?

And label them clearly "only mesh compatible viewers" official viewer 2.8-- and 3.

[Charolotte Caxton]

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Mayalily wrote:

Yes, I saw the photos, they were loose fitting looking dresses to me.  On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being worst and 10 being best, the look compared to other clothes they have is about a 1.  I didn't like them very much, they kind of look like potatoe sacks a bit in the way they fit.  The dresses kind of look like they are going to fall off or show your boobs as soon as your bend down to pick something up for an example, as that is what would happen in real life if you wore a dress that lose fitting, bend to pick up something, and your boobs would be hanging out all over the place.  

Now, some heterosexual men might like that idea.  lolz 

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As I said to you before, it is a choice. If you don't care for it don't wear it, the wonderful thing about a virtual environment is that the clothes are not going to fall off of us and if you thought my photos looked like potato sacks then perhaps you have a very good opinion of potato sacks perhaps, regardless, I was just trying to show how cool mesh can be.

[Hayley Spore]

Mesh will introduce the same thing that it does in games like Oblivion, which has a HUGE modding community.

Someone will come out with a nice shape, let's call it "Anya". If it becomes a popular shape, clothiers will start supporting it, and eventually the majority of mesh clothing will read "Supports Anya Shape". Your face will be unique, but we'll all be built the same way.

Shortly after, a few branches of this shape will gain popularity (Busty Anya, Athletic Anya, etc) and alternate versions of clothing will be made for these shapes too.

We sort of have this today amongst prim breast users, as clothiers who choose to support us often support a limited subset of prim breast models. This means that most prim breast users will all have nearly identically shaped busts, with the only difference being size and the clothing over top.

 

On the plus side, it will make it easy for new people to get decent looking avis right away just by purchasing (or maybe it will be free!) the standard Anya shape. It also gives clothiers the confidence that their stuff will fit and work as expected every single time, as long as people wear a compatible shape.

 

On the down side, how the hell am I going to find clothing that fits anymore?

 

[Shelby Silverspar]

What do the mesh dresses look like when an avatar sits? Would someone mind posting a pic of that?

[Charolotte Caxton]

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Shelby Silverspar wrote:

What do the mesh dresses look like when an avatar sits? Would someone mind posting a pic of that?

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That's the thing about mesh, it is more real like, it bends, it moves it acts like real materiel. 

[Petronilla Whitfield]

     As I see it, the big issue for clothing is the combination of height and heft.  I have a short, chubby avatar.  If a boot comes in sizes A, B, C, D, my avatar would almost certainly need size A for leg length and size D for calf width.  I have never found that choice available.  When I can edit prims, I can make clothing work.

    In the real world, there are enough short, chubby people to make it worthwhile for some clothing manufacturers to cater to them.

    In SL, so few people choose to be short and chubby that it would not be worthwhile to a content creator to bother to make clothing to fit those few avatars.  The market would be too small.

   Mesh worn as an attachment will not adjust to hight--only mesh worn as a clothing layer, right?

   Any clothing attachment that cannot be edited by the end user will probably be a problem for avatars with uncommon shapes.

 

[Petronilla Whitfield]

  That said, I am not anti-mesh.  Last week I switched to Firestorm for the sole reason that I will (in the fullness of time) be able to see mesh correctly in it.  I'm just not excited about mesh clothing attachments becuase I doubt my avatar will get much chance to use them.

[Demonsthenes]

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Petronilla Whitfield wrote:

     As I see it, the big issue for clothing is the combination of height and heft.  I have a short, chubby avatar.  If a boot comes in sizes A, B, C, D, my avatar would almost certainly need size A for leg length and size D for calf width.  I have never found that choice available.  When I can edit prims, I can make clothing work.

    In the real world, there are enough short, chubby people to make it worthwhile for some clothing manufacturers to cater to them.

    In SL, so few people choose to be short and chubby that it would not be worthwhile to a content creator to bother to make clothing to fit those few avatars.  The market would be too small.

   Mesh worn as an attachment will not adjust to hight--only mesh worn as a clothing layer, right?

   Any clothing attachment that cannot be edited by the end user will probably be a problem for avatars with uncommon shapes.

 

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Well then I suppose it is much like males trying to get any decent clothing options for the last, mm, 7 years?

Don't get me wrong, there are great male clothiers out there, you just have to expend some energy locating them, so yes, the market appeals to the masses, look for your short chubby shape clothiers, I'm sure they will exist, everything does in sl. 

[Marianne Little]

You will not have so much choiche, that's true. Average beauty will have more to pick from. But, those who dare to make stuff for the "not so tall and thin" market will have less competition and returning customers.

[Deej Kasshiki]

Good to see the mesh zealots out in force name-calling as per usual.

There are some fairly major limitations with mesh. They can't be resized in the same ways as standard prims or sculpts. Those full avatar replacement meshes will limit you to skins made specifically for those meshes; no more picking out the skin from whichever creator you like (although in the case of furries or other animal avatars this won't be an issue), and of course if you jump on the wagon this early most people will just see odd cubes or spheres attached to you (which some have indicated they don't care about).

Bottom line for me is that I'm ignoring this stuff for a while. If Firestorm keeps progressing in making the v2 UI palatable (for the most part anyway) and when mesh is in wide use and not being able to see mesh creations interferes with my enjoyment of SL, then I'll make the change, not because some mesh bigot is name-calling.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

Thank you for posting the "sitting" photo, Charolotte! As you know, I don't use the LL viewer, but this is an interesting development even if it is one I won't be taking advantage of for now. I do like how that skirt drapes as you are seated! :smileyhappy:

P.S. to Marianne: And thank you for the jeans info; I'll pick up a set to hold on to till my viewer is able to see mesh properly!

[Keli Kyrie]

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Sylvia Tamalyn wrote:

Thank you for posting the "sitting" photo, Charolotte! As you know, I don't use the LL viewer, but this is an interesting development even if it is one I won't be taking advantage of for now. I do like how that skirt drapes as you are seated! :smileyhappy:

P.S. to Marianne: And thank you for the jeans info; I'll pick up a set to hold on to till my viewer is able to see mesh properly!

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^^^^THIS^^^^ (Well the Charolotte and Marianne parts I do use Beta Viewer 3.0.1)

Thank you everyone for your lively discussion on this Mesh Mayhem. I have a question and maybe it is a silly question but why not resize mesh? Is that going to be something that is possible in the future or is the nature of mesh unresizable? If all we need is special tools to edit mesh maybe LL can add it to the viewer later?

[Ishtara Rothschild]

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Peewee Musytari wrote:

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

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WilhiamMeshTest wrote:

I'd like to point out 2 things :

- 3rd Party viewers are implementing mesh capabilities into their respective viewers too and are hopefully released soon.  

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I wish. As far as I know, there are no plans to backport mesh from Snowstorm to viewer 1-based third party clients, and I doubt that this is even possible

. I've tried to get used to Firestorm, but it has too many flaws of viewer 2 and isn't anything like Phoenix.

I've also tried Kirsten's and other v2 viewers, but none of them works for me.

If Phoenix users are supposed to use mesh, we need a mesh viewer with the Phoenix UI, or alternatively LL's v1.2 interface. It should be easy enough to implement as an option. Unless viewer 2 is an out-house development (it sure has the look and feel of third party software developed by a company that never bothered to use SL), which would be the worst decision in the history of SL.

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Firestorm should be mesh enabled very soon (hopefully a week or 2), Jessica explained what is happening with Firestorm & also that some TPVs are trying to add mesh to v1s, on  

The Phoenix Hour

  yesterday.

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Thanks, but... well, see above I've boldened the important part. Everyone equates Phoenix with Firestorm (everyone who doesn't use either viewer, that is), but they are nothing alike.

At this point, Firestorm is not an option for most Phoenix users. All people I've talked to hate it, because it's basically v2 with a detachable sidebar. We don't want this $#!?, we want v3 with a proper viewer interface. It's LL's job to provide that, they can't just rely on third party viewer dev teams (who have all tried and failed miserably).

[Peewee Musytari]

I agree, there is no getting around the fact that the V2 UI sucks & is designed to be unmoddable. FS has done an excellent job of putting in options to make it more user friendly & adding back V1 features that LL took out, such as the pie menu & conversations box,  but as the saying goes, you can`t make silk purse out of a sow`s ear.

[Pamela Galli]

Those who already use V2 will enjoy the mesh; the rest of us will wait until enough mesh is out there that it will be worth the sacrifice of our V1's.  That's a Catch-22 because as a creator I will not invest time in making something that only part of the SL population can even see. For some creators tho it should be a nice niche market, until all of us have (grudgingly) switched.

[Ishtara Rothschild]

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Deej Kasshiki wrote:

Good to see the mesh zealots out in force name-calling as per usual.

There are some fairly major limitations with mesh. They can't be resized in the same ways as standard prims or sculpts. Those full avatar replacement meshes will limit you to skins made specifically for those meshes; no more picking out the skin from whichever creator you like (although in the case of furries or other animal avatars this won't be an issue), and of course if you jump on the wagon this early most people will just see odd cubes or spheres attached to you (which some have indicated they don't care about).

Bottom line for me is that I'm ignoring this stuff for a while.

If

Firestorm keeps progressing in making the v2 UI palatable (for the most part anyway)

and

when mesh is in wide use

and

not being able to see mesh creations interferes with my enjoyment of SL,

then

I'll make the change, not because some mesh bigot is name-calling.

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My sentiments exactly. But the progress of Firestorm's attempt at a proper UI implementation is a very big "if".

Besides, third party viewers are just not the answer. As much as I love Phoenix (for the sole reason that it is the only viable viewer option right now, aside from Imprudence), we've all learned that 3PV devs are not to be trusted. I'd like to use a Linden viewer again and feel secure in the knowledge that I won't be denied customer service or made complicit in a DDOS attack.

Seriously, I'm about to throw the towel in right now. I tried to get used to various new viewers including Firestorm, I really did. The UI just doesn't do it for me, nor does the performance and (in)stability. Now I see myself faced with two options: Either accept the fact that SL will increasingly look like modern art for me, or just give up on this MMO.

The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards the latter. SL has stopped being fun for me. This didn't happen over night, it's a process that started when LL introduced the new maturity rating system and didn't give a bloody damn about all the people who gamed it. Since then, LL have displayed an utter disconnect with the way in which oldbies and paying customers like me use this platform. Every major change that followed made things worse.

This is just the last straw. Until now, I've still been getting something out of SL. Heck, I even redesigned my public sim recently in a bout of optimism, after Rodvik spoke of UI changes (on SLU of all places. Talk about disconnect with the customer base. I don't see him participate here in his own forum). But these changes are due sometime late next year, and he says in an interview with Tateru Nino (lots of disconnect in that article as well) that he wants us to switch viewers until the end of this year.

In other words, suck it up and get used to v3, we might make some UI changes next year (which might make things even worse). Well, I won't suck it up. I'm done sucking. I came here to have fun and enjoy myself. If SL turns into constant frustration, pressure, disappointment, and fights between the different factions that LL keep dividing their user base into, what's the point?

LL's mission could be so simple: Bring back the fun. Make SL work again for your loyal customers instead of reaching for the stars. It's not the glorified 3D internet that Philip tried to sell, it's not going to be the next Facebook, it's not an experimental development platform for professional game designers, it is simply a fun place for adults to unwind, relax, socialize, and let their creative energies flow. LL seem to be dead set on ruining that unique SL experience and driving us away.

[May Caramel]

"Seriously, I'm about to throw the towel in right now. "

"This is just the last straw."

"Until now, I've still been getting something out of SL."

"LL's mission could be so simple: Bring back the fun."

"SL has stopped being fun for me. "

 

Seriously you need a break from the game. What you say isn't new. it happens to people in Aion, WoW, Lineage and every game ever. People get burned out, they get bored and tired of their game. Maybe you will come back and be refreshed ready to enjoy SL again. Maybe you will never come back and instead find new things you enjoy. But it's clear that you will not be pleased with what their direction is, so you might as well cut your losses. Stop thinking about it, and "about to"...just do it already. Some are happy with the recent changes, some aren't. But happy or not we cannot control LL's actions. Just play what you enjoy don't log in to annoy yourself.

As for mesh, I'm loving it. I don't care if people on old viewers can't see me. I don't care if I have to modify my shape. Of course not all mesh clothes will be a shape I will use. But some are... and I already modify my shape to fit prim clothing, system skirts and certain boots and hairs. Changing my shape for an outfit is nothing new. It isn't good for everyone but it's perfect for me. That's fine, people don't have to use it if they don't want to.

Maybe some people are perfectly happy with skintight clothing and flexi skirts, but I never was. Some people are happy with system skins and hair, or happy with nonprim bare feet or happy with hair four years old and shoes made of blocky prims and giant invisible blocks. When you are used to a certain look then you don't notice the problems. And that is fine if others want to enjoy those things then they can. But to say that Jane's new dresses have terrible fit sounds pretty silly to me. I doubt such a sentiment would come out if V1s were able to see mesh.

[Cerebrix Absolute]

i dont really see the problem people are having with viewer 2.  ive been using it since it went live because i learned a long time ago, its better to go with the flow when it comes to LL's decisions.  once their mind is made up thats it.

 

i honestly cant imagine what people are doing with their computers to have problems with it.