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A folder for every item in the new Direct Delivery System for Marketplace ????


Kurt Ludd
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Lasher Oh wrote:

Good succinct explanation Toy, that is exactly how I understand the proposed change as well. When the Direct Delivery idea was first mooted a year or so ago I thought then it was simply just a case of placing the packs we already have in our magic boxes into a new dedicated folder. Which would then send the item direct without the need for a third party not so Magic Script to clog up the works during lag storms.

Simple easy done no fuss no bother - carry on trading as normal. I WAS all for it!

But then someone in their infinite stupidity thought that  it would be a cute idea if we just deliver our customers already opened folders. Thus denying them the handy and important pop-up notecards we include and doing away with all those nicely crafted boxes and packaging that made so much difference to brand presentation. That for me is  like handing over a birthday or Christmas present without any wrapping yeeeeeeuch! how tacky is that!

I'll give the commerce team top marks for consistency though. Ever since LL aquired and created their marketplace monopoly, they have  periodically forced us down the road of perpetual time wasting revisions and alterations to our listings. But then as Couldbe said in her post LL are "not in the business of making life easy for us"

^L^

 

 

Correct, LL are not in the business of making life easier for "us", they have proved over and over in the last couple of years that their only interest is to make life easier for noobs.

The continual dumbing down of SL, desperately trying to identify what it is that makes noobs register and leave instead of staying in SL. How many people do you know that left SL because they couldn`t open a box????? Yet, LL seem to think that this is a crucial problem that needed fixing. It is as inspired as Basic Mode. :D

One day LL might try asking residents that have stayed in LL what it was that made them stay, instead of keep trying to guess at what makes noobs leave. If SL was appealing enough, new users would be motivated to work out the details of how to do stuff, just like we did. Afterall it is supposed to be a world for adults, they do all these changes to make things eaiser to learn & then wonder why we have 12 year olds on the grid. lol

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I don't understand why one comment on making life easier for newbies has put such a bee in the bonnet of a couple of you but why should they have to learn if it's not necessary?  It's only necessary at the moment because server based deliveries require it.  If people want to use server based that's their choice but they don't have a right to foist it on others because they choose the easy option for them to distribute their stuff.

and turning your argument around, why should we force people to learn to do things that are old fashioned?  Why should we teach kids to write cursive when 99% of their writing is on a keyboard?  Why do kids need to tell the time using a clock when 99% of time displayed these days is digitial?  Those examples are as relevant as yours.

The desire is there for this, the popularity of resizer scripts proved it undoubtedly.  There are a lot of people who don't know how to edit an object since resizers came in.  They don't want to know and I'm sure some will not wear something if it doesn't have a resizer whilst others will learn if they need to.  It should be the same with boxed objects - there's no need for that to have to be one of the first things they struggle with.  They're here to have fun, not be frustrated by someone elses laziness.

So, I'm afraid I'm not of the opinion that just because we managed to stay hooked on this crack, everyone else should suffer as we did. 

I certainly know that if I buy clothing inworld and it's boxed then I'm not happy - usually I want to wear it then and there and can't because I have to go home to unbox it.  I can remember when I first came in - it took me around 6 weeks before I was really comfortable with the viewer and felt at home in here.  These days there are a lot more online options for wasting recreational time and whatever can be done to reduce the steep learning curve and make life easier for us is a bonus.  As we can see by the retention rate, a lot of people are finding sl too difficult or boring or whatever to stick around.

Ultimately, it's LLs business and they'll do as they see fit , just like we do with our businesses.

In the end, without newbies SL is in a hole, retention is dropping and without new blood it's going to stagnate and die.  They may not be my market but I want LL to improve the retention rate from the almost non existent to something better, so if this goes even a small way to doing it then fine by me and the discussion about the priorities of the commerce team and LL priorities/decisions in general is irrelevant to this thread.

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The assumption that boxed items equates with laziness on the part of the merchant is a pretty poor argument and isn't going to win you any cookies, that's for sufe.

Kids learn cursive, how to read a clock, how to tie their shoes, and a myriad of other things because at some point it's a skill they will need. So no, those aren't valid arguments for *not* learning these skills. While they may rarely run into those instances wherein those skills are required, they *will* run into them, period. They won't go their entire lives without needing to read cursive-even if they never need to use it themselves. They won't go their entire lives without having to read a clock-even if they never own one themselves. I'm guessing you likely don't have children, or else it would be a no brainer why those skills while not of the absolute greatest importance, are still important and necessary.

The same goes for learning how to open boxes in sl. It's not "old fashioned"(come on now, really? old fashioned? Geeze louise it's not like Sl is decades old here). It's something a resident will likely have to do at some point. Learning how to open boxes is, while not of greatest importance ever in sl, still important. It's something we all run into. It's important residents know how to do it. I don't consider a merchant who delivers items via a package, rather than folder, as lazy. In fact, I find that pretty insulting to the grid's worth of merchants who do exactly that(or even opt for both methods). Of course that sort of comment will get a bee in the bonnet of other merchants. You're outright calling them lazy. What do you expect? Personally I don't much care what other merchants call me, nor do I care how other merchants deliver their merchandise. All I care about, is that they do. We've all sorts of method of delivery in sl...packaged items we need to right click, open and copy to inventory, packaged items with an unpacker-on-rez script, packaged items with an unpacker-on-touch script, items that come directly to us via folder-foregoing the packaged part, etc... I can't say I see any of them as right, wrong, easy, hard, lazy, or whatever. They are all just different options we have available to us.

That said the whole DD thing still greatly confuses me at this point. While I'd prefer to not speculate on how it will work, it's hard not to. Having to unbox everything I create, place it in folders, and place those folders into another folder...seems like an extreme waste of time, lol. It doesn't make me lazy to say that either. It would make me lazy(perhaps) to not actually do it simply to avoid the worlk involved, but I've never said I wouldn't do it. I won't pretend I'd enjoy doing it. I have a huge lot of products that I will be adding very soon and to be honest the thought of having to unbox to a folder(adding even more content to my inventory) and then place those folders in another folder...blah, it doesn't sound appealing. I'll do it if necessary, but I won't enjoy doing so. I like boxing my items. Some of my stuff comes in a specific kind of package, for good reason. Some of it doesn't too. I like the methods I use because they work for me. I presume most other merchants feel the same way. I can sympathize for merchants who are against this whole "everything in a folder, unboxed" idea(even if it's not how it will really work), especially those who sell hundreds if not thousands of products and have more than just one component to their products. Eeep that's a lot of work, not to mention a HUGE amount of content that will be added to people's inventories as they switch over.

I'd prefer if LL actually explained things, correctly, without all the smoke and mirrors and confusion, but it's something I've gotten used to over the years. They rarely every explain things thoroughly. Part of the reason why i find the "let's dumb things down for people as much as possible, and make things easier on folks who don't know" argument laughable. LL has *never* made things easier for those who don't know, lol. Why on earth would they start now?

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Couldbe Yue wrote:

I don't understand why one comment on making life easier for newbies has put such a bee in the bonnet of a couple of you but why should they have to learn if it's not necessary?  It's only necessary at the moment because server based deliveries require it.  If people want to use server based that's their choice but they don't have a right to foist it on others because they choose the easy option for them to distribute their stuff.


Not necessary to learn how to open a box? Its a fundamental function of SL which they will encounter everywhere they go. Most of them probably learnt it from getting a freebie box somewhere before they ever went to the marketplace.

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I wouldn't imbue this with as much emotion as you seem to feel I have for it, but I'll happily answer as to the cause of my "bee'd bonnet".

I do agree that SL is in a hole (or a rut or stagnation or whatever), and I'll also agree that solutions must be found that take us out of that same hole. But solutions are only effective if they actually solve a problem. It's quite easy to develop a theory as to a problem then invent a solution for it. But if the theory is incorrect, no matter how effective the solution, it will not result in any improvement. It is my belief that delivery of unboxed items is just such a theory.

Boxed item delivery isn't just a "Magic Box" thing. Putting a collection of things inside a box is a very common and useful mechanism for many applications. Many people sell "Organizers" that are essentially boxes to put stuff in. Many people use boxes to store related items in to help reduce clutter and confusion in their own inventory. Many is the time I have received boxes of stuff from friends or acquaintances, not because they had some magic power or made me feel good, but because the method is effective and very useful.

I disagree that "the desire is there for this." Oh sure, we've all worn a box at one time or another. It's a good giggle and then we learn the proper method of dealing with it. But the temporary stumble is just that ... temporary and only a stumble. Any "desire" is, I believe, contrived or at least poorly understood. Rather than boxed items being "crack", I feel strongly that it's more like veggies. (Not always tasty, but essential to good virtual living.)

Resizer scripts are a perfect example of a good concept ... that went horribly awry. They were invented to solve a "problem". The problem was the misconception that if you deliver "Modifyable" items, the copybotters could exploit that to make copies of all your stuff and put you out of business. The truth is wholly different though. It's another bit of hysteria and incorrect information that has served to sew distrust in the SL Environment. However the net result of Resizer Scripts are items (and in some cases highly popular items at that) capable of nearly crashing a Sim when they arrive with the owner on an inbound Teleport. So in the end analysis, they did not deter the copybotters (their original intent) yet they have introduced problems and performance degradation that has resulted in LL having to invest many hours in diagnostics, development of new LSL calls and an overall increase in misunderstanding and customer frustration.

Not everyone will deliver their Marketplace Items unboxed. Some items just simply cannot be delivered unboxed anyway. So designing a system that derives a primary benefit from a situation that won't be 100% accepted is ... well it's just destined to fail and once again inject confusion and frustration for everyone.

I'm all for fixing the problems Couldbe .. I really am. But only if those problems being fixed are real problems, and only if the fixes really are fixes. I just don't see the unboxing of items as a solution that is requisite to fixing a real problem, and I don't see having a solution that is only partially accepted as being any kind of real solution.

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Couldbe...  regarding your arguments on why BOXED items are old and passe and should be considered SL's version of the Spitoon, I think my other fellow Merchants have very well said everything I would have said.  Unless LL decides to fundamentally re-engineer the SL grid fundamentals - EVERY SL RESIDENT WILL NEED TO KNOW THE SKILL OF REZZING AND UNBOXING AND COPYING INTO INVENTORY.  There is no two ways about it and LL's process of making the Magibox extinct will not end this fundamental requirement that ALL SL residents will need to learn.

In fact, your argument that DD will be delivering a great tool to help noobs by taking this utterly confusing UNBOXING process away from them has little merit either.  Since most NOOB's first purchases are likely inworld freeby sim purchases where they will receive their first BOXED item and wear it on their heads - DD will not be there to save them from this funny but all to common right of passage most of us SL Residents had to go through.  Why?  Because they didnt buy from SLM and they have no clue yet that there is a website called SLM that you can buy and have delivered all these items.

So in summary, the #1 argument which Brooke very clearly was promoting at the SLCC when her first slide to explain the benefits of DD was to show a photo of an avatar with a Magicbox worn on its head is actually the least important reason for DD.

Sadly, the fact that Brooke promotes UNBOXED SLM Sales as a major benefit to DD and that when she was asked the question in the Q&A if Boxed items would still be supported she answered yes but her face and expression clearly showed a message of confusion as to why Merchants still want to sell Boxed items, this is exactly what I was saying earlier.  Brooke and much of the SL Commerce or Development team have no real actual experience being a Merchant.  She doesnt even understand that BOXING an item has many benefits that far outweigh her team's promotion of moving to UNBOX SLM delivery.

(BROOKE - read the following paragraph so you can understand why Boxed items are a value add to delivery and not a tool that you need to destroy like the Spitoon - and stop listening to your small inner circle of Merchants that are telling you otherwise)

I dont sell BOXED Landscape sculpty packs because I am a lazy Merchant.  I sell and deliver my landscape Sculpty packs despite the fact that its a major pain to create a BOXED PACKAGING of my item.  Why?  Because of the benefits of a Boxed delivery.  Same reasons countless other Merchants go through this pain.

-  The outside of the box is used as promotion and general information (i spend a lot of time creating the graphic photo work that goes on the outside surface of these BOXES that my customers rez)

-  Organization of my items in my customer's inventory.  Many of my customers KEEP the delivered Box in inventory and rez / copy to inventory the contents when they are working on projects where they need my rocks/landscaping items then they delete the folder in inventory and go through the process again next time they need my sculpties.  This reduces their inventory size dramatically and keeps my packs of sculpties well organized.  If they have all six of my packs and only received them unboxed, they would add about 500+ items into their inventory for something they only use ocassionally during build projects.  Let me see - 6 boxed items vs 500+ unboxed items.... which seems more organized?

-  Many merchants can add instructions or On-Rez scripts to a boxed item that can accomplish countless things... including to help the customers with the product they just bought (i.e. an overhead text).  With DD delivery of unboxed content to the Customer - this valuable option for merchants is now GONE.

-  By rezzing a boxed item and having the customer manually copy it to inventory, they have more involvement of what will be entering your inventory BEFORE they copy it to their inventory.  this sounds trivial to those that are proponents of UNBOXED delivery but I love this feature as a customer.  When I buy a boxed item from a merchant, I often first review all the items in the box before deciding to copy to inventory.  Heck, sometimes I just copy the item in the box right to REZ and not to inventory (we dont all buy boxed clothing or wearable items).

-  Since DD is only for SLM, by keeping my Boxed items BOXED, my delivery to the customer of sales inworld and in SLM will be consistent.  I will not be selling a boxed item inworld and unboxed in SLM.

-  My Boxed items often are my single prim vendors inworld.  The very BOX is used many times as a self-promoting selling / delivery vendor prim filled with my license notes, demo photos, demo prims, and the actual products.

-  Many of my customers, even after they rez and copy my items into inventory, still keep the delivered BOXED item in inventory as a backup incase something goes wrong with the folder or they do a booboo.  This not an option for all merchants but it is for me and my products and to the customers I sell to since I sell full minimum copy-trans items.

I am sure my other fellow merchants will have other reasons why BOXED ITEMS will never go away even if Brooke and company feel it is one of the main reasons NOOBS log in one time into SL and never return.

So, DD will now provide us the option of selling our items Boxed or Unboxed.  Great. For those Merchants that feel it is important to spoon feed noobs from SLM sales that Noobs likely wont use prior to their first freeby-bought avi-worn boxed experience - Great.  They now can deliver unboxed SLM sales and boxed inworld sales.  Hows that for confusing your customer.

Toy

http://ToyTalks.weebly.com

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Couldbe Yue wrote:


Toysoldier Thor wrote:

LL didnt understand why we wanted independent inventory from main inventory when they first started the idea of DD.  I still think they dont grasp the risks.

 

I have to agree with this.  There's a couple of issues that I'm not too comfortable with and past performance indicates that it's most likely going to go horribly wrong but for better or worse we're stuck with whatever they deliver.

Since this is already running a couple of months late obviously there's major issues on their side.  LL aren't usually shy about dumping sub standard rubbish on us and calling it beta just to make their project delivery dates, so I'm assuming that it's not a bed of roses in NDA alpha test land.

I'd like to say that they're trying to get it right before they inflict it on us but we know that's not true, don't we?
;)

I do agree with you here.  I think the fact that it is now end of August and we still have heard VERY LITTLE from LL or the brave DD ALPHA Merchants about how DD is progressing or its details even how it works tells me that they are encountering a lot of the "OHHH DARN - We didnt think of that during the architecture and design of the DD solution".  This is an all too common situation with LL's development history. 

They are well known for spending far too little time understanding the actual requirements / problems they are trying to develop a solution for.  They dont think of the impacts and ramifications of the solution because: 1) they have little actual real experience being an SL resident, customer, or merchant so they only rely upon what they witness from an outsider perspective,  2) they do not have a mature Systems Analysis/Architecture skillset to leverage who would be able to look at the larger picture and design for longer term viability. 

They see an immediate problem and they design a solution to solve the immediate problem.  Then they find out later that the new solution causes more NEW problems then the original problems.  A common problem for immature development shops where the Analyst and Archtect of the solutions are the software developers (code writers) themselves.  This is bad news for solution development.

Anyway, I suspect the public release of DD is delayed because they ran into a lot of these ill designed glitches coming to burn them now... AND sadly for us Merchants... we will experience the ones that even the Merchant Alpha Team didnt catch.

That is why I will be one of the very last Merchants to transition my items from Magicboxes to DD.  The true Beta Testers will be those Merchants that start transitioning their SLM items from magicboxes to DD the week after LL goes production public with DD.  I am not stupid... I will let the brave and the foolish merchants that jump into DD on week #1 be the ones to work out the bugs of DD and take the risks.  I will step in when its proven to be running smooth OR more likely when LL forces me to transition.

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One "issue" that still baffles me, so this post isn't to you directly Toy .. it's more "tossed out for all to answer", so open season folks, I want to hear your thoughts.

Why did LL feel it necessary to bolt, superglue, gag and pour concrete over the DD Testers with such a restrictive NDA? What possible exposure could there be in having the general populace aware of the process and details during the development phase?

I understand the concern that early "gripes" could possibly bias folks against DD, but those that would be irrevocably turned against DD based on a few "geez this is FUBAR" posts are the same types that would doom it to heck because there's a period missing from the third sentence of the second paragraph on the first page of instructions too. I mean seriously, in comparison, the overall potential benefits to be had from having reliable delivery even when the customer is offline so far outweigh nit picking little issues that anyone pulling a Chicken Little during development would be disregarded out of hand.

The whole concept of DD is so obviously a good move and one of those things that just really doesn't have a lot of truly proprietary facets that locking it all up behind legal red tape and threats of ultimate doom and gloom has no effect other than to guarantee a too-small sampling of intelligent and creative testers and more or less restricts the testing candidates to folks that aren't really geeky enough to "get it" when it comes to seeing not only the problems on the surface but capable of seeing the "whyfor" of those issues too.

I really really REALLY wish LL would stop this paranoid restrictiveness on their testers and just accept the fact that they have no competition and let the full breadth of their PAYING CUSTOMERS contribute in rich, beneficial ways.

So, can anyone postulate a sound, rational, viable reason why DD's specifics are so vulnerable that any release of info would potentially render the project moot or a loss if the info were to leak?

PS: And the typical "Because lawyers are paranoid, ill-informed and paid way too much to disregard is NOT a valid reason.

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Darrius... you know that was one of my biggest public gripes about the DD Beta Team and that LL felt it was critical for them to GAG them.

I shake my head as there is no logic for them to be gagged when there is no competitive edge for them to protect.  In fact, by releasing the gag and letting the beta merchants talk - we all would likely have been able to voice our concerns and added missing functions to the DD that is being built and tested right now in secrecy.

There is no logic to this.  It just LL being too scared to deal with the PR when their likely bad solution design starts hitting the rocks.  They could contain the bad messages and lost confidence.

Best to keep it a secret.

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going through my own messed up inventory and a bit concerned about a few things.

in effect...stuff will be pulled directly from what I consider a very private stash.  was way more comfortable knowing a box from another tool was being delivered, rather than a hand slipping into my personal stash.

assume that you better not have any other folders labeled the same as that title on the marketplace listing (that's how it works?) - - because I do.  many folders labeled the same, but with different items in them.

and looking at them now....some stuff accidently got slipped into those folders.  some of it was full perm stuff and some pics here and there.

people better make sure they do not EVER slide a pic or a full perm item or this and that into the wrong folder....if I'm understanding this correctly....and may not be.

but a bit worried about all those people that never get a heads up that something is coming.  well, maybe they get a heads up....maybe not. 

do you suppose there will be a button that you have to click to move on and activate this feature?  or will it be automatically activated?

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Mickey,

One thing I do know for sure is that the items listed on and delivered from Marketplace will all exist in folders that are sub-folders of one very specific and specially named "Marketplace Delivery" folder. It will be a new special folder that does not exist yet (and this part I'm not 100% sure of but pretty confident in) and cannot be manually created by you .. it must be automatically created by the Viewer under command from SL.

Therefore they won't be reaching into any existing folders; they will only reach into folders that are created underneath that one specially system created folder. So your existing inventory should be safe from "harm".

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One advantage to boxes that Ive not seen mentioned is that if ones inventory is sorted by date, the newly delivered box will be at the top of the objects folder in inventory - thus making it easier (to my little brain) to find than a newly created folder in inventory.

<shrug> I sell builders supplies, builders know how to open boxes. I can also see the advantages of folders for clothes and stuff. Being able to do DD either way would be a good thing.

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

Mickey,

One thing I do know for sure is that the items listed on and delivered from Marketplace will all exist in folders that are sub-folders of one very specific and specially named "Marketplace Delivery" folder. It will be a new special folder that does not exist yet (and this part I'm not 100% sure of but pretty confident in) and cannot be manually created by you .. it must be automatically created by the Viewer under command from SL.

Therefore they won't be reaching into any existing folders; they will only reach into folders that are created underneath that one specially system created folder. So your existing inventory should be safe from "harm".

Does this mean that if I use Phoenix and refuse to install the mess that is viewer 2, I won't be able to use direct delivery?

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

Does this mean that if I use Phoenix and refuse to install the mess that is viewer 2, I won't be able to use direct delivery?

Nope, they've apparently figured out how to make it work with "archaic" Viewers too. See the section of the DD FAQ entitled:

Will a Viewer update be required to view and access contents of the incoming and outgoing folders?

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

You're very welcome. As usual, any good stuff that happens at LL is directly my responsibility. Anything bad, direct those comments to Brooke.

(sits back and waits for his account to suddenly vaporize .. LOL)

ROFL.... tick tick tick.....wow you are still here Darrius.  I have a strong feeling that Brooke has very thick skin :) dealing with annoying Merchants like you and me :).....  ohh and Josh too :)

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Toysoldier Thor wrote:


Darrius Gothly wrote:

You're very welcome. As usual, any good stuff that happens at LL is directly my responsibility. Anything bad, direct those comments to Brooke.

(sits back and waits for his account to suddenly vaporize .. LOL)

ROFL.... tick tick tick.....wow you are still here Darrius.  I have a strong feeling that Brooke has very thick skin
:)
dealing with annoying Merchants like you and me
:)
.....  ohh and Josh too
:)

That and she probably has brothers that are ... ahem .. prone to fits of "Superior Male Ego". (otherwise known as "I'm male therefore I am correct" syndrome)

Darrius places his hand to his forehead, turning pale and shaking visibly ... "I feel a disturbance in the Force Toy .. as though half the world's population suddenly issued forth a collective groan ..."

/me grabs the bottle of pain pills and returns to further experiments in modern bio-chemistry ...

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I agree with Toy about the promotional benefit of boxes. The box I believe is one of merchants most important branding opportunities. Building my brand is a high priority for my business. When a customer sees the BARTLETT & NIELSEN logo on that box, it makes yet one more impression, which helps build brand recognition. Without the box, merchants lose a valuable business tool.

 

 

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Blaze Nielsen wrote:

I agree with Toy about the promotional benefit of boxes. The box I believe is one of merchants most important branding opportunities. Building my brand is a high priority for my business. When a customer sees the BARTLETT & NIELSEN logo on that box, it makes yet one more impression, which helps build brand recognition. Without the box, merchants lose a valuable business tool. 

As a business owner I agree with you. But as a customer, I'd love to get my content in folders. I'm lazy, and it's easy to get confused if you buy 15 things at once and rez out 15 boxes. Some are huge and hide the smaller ones from view, some are copyable while others vanish from your inventory, at some point you find yourself wondering "did I already unpack that?", and in the end you have three copies of the same folder while another item is missing.

Of course boxed content is invaluable when it comes to copy+mod items. If the customer messes them up, s/he can always unpack a fresh copy. But this can be solved by adding a boxed version to the folder with the unpacked content.

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I got sidetracked a bit these last few days but I'm back now and so will resurrect this thread to respond. It's a bit of a major novel I'm afraid.

@ Tari Landar   

"The assumption that boxed items equates with laziness on the part of the merchant is a pretty poor argument and isn't going to win you any cookies, that's for sufe." 

It's a good thing I'm not out to make friends then isn't it?  ;) I'm far more brutal about LL than I am about my fellow merchants.

"The same goes for learning how to open boxes in sl. It's not "old fashioned"(come on now, really? old fashioned? Geeze louise it's not like Sl is decades old here). " 

Second Life is almost 10 years old in internet terms that's legacy rather than fresh and new.  Newbies and boxing has always been an issue inworld.  I'm sorry, but I've never subscribed to the theory that just because some people do it that way, it's the way it should be done.  Most retailers who understand the basics of retailing know that making it as easy as possible for people to start enjoying their product are going to have an edge on those who don't.

@ Peewee Musytari

"Not necessary to learn how to open a box? Its a fundamental function of SL which they will encounter everywhere they go. Most of them probably learnt it from getting a freebie box somewhere before they ever went to the marketplace."  I think you may be making an erroneous assumption now.  Only LL can tell us but my highly unscientific observation is that people aren't going to the freebie palaces anymore for their stuff, their first stop is most likely the marketplace.

@ Darrius Gothly

"Rather than boxed items being "crack", I feel strongly that it's more like veggies. (Not always tasty, but essential to good virtual living.)". 

I probably wasn't clear when I wrote this, I don't think boxed items are the crack - Second Life is the crack.  Think about it, despite everything they've done to us and the poor quality of the platform and service, we've stuck around where the majority of the lesser mortals have left. It's a huge learning curve to get comfortable with second life and is actually a serious committment of time. For better or worse, most of us are here until they close the doors but these days there are a lot more web based options for people to spend their time on. We can either continue to make it hard for people to get into it by saying that it was good enough for us so it's good enough for them or we can try to make it easier for them to acclimatise and get on with the business of enjoying themselves in here rather than struggling with the alternatives.

your comment about resizer scripts is valid but what you miss is the law of unintended consequences.  People loved those scripts as it made it easy for them and there were a large number of people who would not buy anything that didn't have one in.  They want things as easy as possible and that hasn't changed

No solution in here is ever fully realised or perfect or universally accepted.  It's always a trade off.  I still don't see that as a reason for not doing things, particularly when (as in this case) usability will be greatly improved.

@ Toysoldier Thor

"Unless LL decides to fundamentally re-engineer the SL grid fundamentals - EVERY SL RESIDENT WILL NEED TO KNOW THE SKILL OF REZZING AND UNBOXING AND COPYING INTO INVENTORY. " 

the only reason this is a fundamental is because people use networked vendors or delivery systems.  There's not too many web shopping portals these days and I doubt they're used by many, but the vendors are used and in many cases probably aren't the best choice when all elements are assessed.  My main point originally though was that it shouldn't be a skill that newbies need to learn straight away.  It can come later but it shouldn't be critical to whether or not they can surivive those first few weeks.  

The rest of your comments there are just your preferences.  Unlike you, I choose to sell my items unboxed inworld because people can see what they are buying before hand and they have a folder sent straight to their inventory so they don't have to worry about unpacking, getting rid of the box etc.   My choice for selling and delivering items comes from when I was a noob all those years ago.  Whenever I bought something I had to find somewhere to unpack it (and I *hated* sandboxes because of the griefing), then I had to rez the thing and copy it into my inventory (and hope the auto return function didn't hit me before I'd finished - the first time it happened I had no idea what had happened).  I didn't even know about the open function until I'd been here something like 6 months, so I used to create a folder and then drag everything in.  It was time consuming and not much fun at all.  When I finally got my first land, I bought a couple of items that I knew were low prim enough to go on the land - for both of them I couldn't even rez the box because the boxes were so high prim they were over the prim allowance.  All I wanted was the damn items! I can still remember buying a rather fetching outfit and when I rezzed the box the asset server ate it (remember those days?).  I never did get that outfit. You want to tell me how any of this was a positive experience?

As for the box being marketing, I never do more than give a casual glance to the box - even if it's a vendor.  I want what is inside.  As a retailer, if I think they need pics I'll include one (always good practice) same with useguides etc.  I'm sure some people do get excited at a nice boxed item but reality says they really are after the contents. If you've included a LM then the marketing is them using the item, loving it and coming back for more.  A box they may see for a few minutes when they first rez it, it's really much more than a bit of reinforcement at the time.

Some of you may agree with me and most wont - that's your choice.  Call me old fashioned but I want people to have a positive shopping experience and if that means work on my part then so be it (with a lot of matyred grumbling though).  I do think the unboxed delivery is a positive step forward and I think DD delivery folder is also a boon.  Unfortunately though it's LL that's doing the developing of this so the actual outcome is indeterminable at the moment.  As always, we'll work around the flaws in whatever they deliver and carry on doing what we do.

I'm happy to join the v2 (or most other) luddite parades but in this case I think these changes are small in the great scheme of things but overwhelming a step in the right direction.

ymmv.

 

 

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